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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261099 times)
deisik
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September 21, 2015, 08:30:39 AM
 #2121

Capitalism is good ONLY in combination with Keynesian mathematics.

If so, wouldn't that part (which is good in Capitalism by means of Keynesianism) have more to do with Socialism, being socialistic due to economic planning and public ownership (if I got your point right)?

Keynesianism is not a political system. It is a mathematic method to create and destroy money. It is not related to the question: "Who controls the means of production?" You can combine it with anything:
Keynesianism + Capitalism
Keynesianism + Socialism
Keynesianism + Communism

Okay, but in this case wouldn't they "who control the means of production" turn into the ones who control the "method to create and destroy money"? Further, since it is a mathematical construct (i.e. a set of predetermined rules and routines), it is opposed to the free market regulation (of, say, money creation and destruction), right?

Money is not a commodity. It is outside of the market.

I was referring to endogenous money creation and destruction through credit (as opposed to a planned method of doing the same, by mathematical model or otherwise), which is regulated by free market mechanisms, that is, through the laws of supply and demand void of any intervention from outside...

I m talking about the money creation and destruction without credit. Why you need credit? Print money and give it free. This is the Keynesian way.

And what's good in it? Isn't what you say looks more like Socialism, or, rather, Communism, the point that I made at the start?

By giving money for free you disincentivize those who are hard earning it, those who create goods

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September 21, 2015, 08:57:56 AM
 #2122

Capitalism is good ONLY in combination with Keynesian mathematics.

If so, wouldn't that part (which is good in Capitalism by means of Keynesianism) have more to do with Socialism, being socialistic due to economic planning and public ownership (if I got your point right)?

Keynesianism is not a political system. It is a mathematic method to create and destroy money. It is not related to the question: "Who controls the means of production?" You can combine it with anything:
Keynesianism + Capitalism
Keynesianism + Socialism
Keynesianism + Communism

Okay, but in this case wouldn't they "who control the means of production" turn into the ones who control the "method to create and destroy money"? Further, since it is a mathematical construct (i.e. a set of predetermined rules and routines), it is opposed to the free market regulation (of, say, money creation and destruction), right?

Money is not a commodity. It is outside of the market.

I was referring to endogenous money creation and destruction through credit (as opposed to a planned method of doing the same, by mathematical model or otherwise), which is regulated by free market mechanisms, that is, through the laws of supply and demand void of any intervention from outside...

I m talking about the money creation and destruction without credit. Why you need credit? Print money and give it free. This is the Keynesian way.

And what's good in it? Isn't what you say looks more like Socialism, or, rather, Communism, the point that I made at the start?

By giving money for free you disincentivize those who are hard earning it 

No it is not Communism. Your property remains private. Keynesianism is a mathematical game of balance. You give free money ONLY when it needed to create balance or for funding, and you remove money for the same reason. Maybe you dont understand it and my english is not good to explain to you.
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September 21, 2015, 09:21:04 AM
 #2123

And what's good in it? Isn't what you say looks more like Socialism, or, rather, Communism, the point that I made at the start?

By giving money for free you disincentivize those who are hard earning it 

No it is not Communism. Your property remains private. Keynesianism is a mathematical game of balance. You give free money ONLY when it needed to create balance or for funding, and you remove money for the same reason. Maybe you dont understand it and my english is not good to explain to you.

Sorry, but I don't see anything good in it. This system if applied will be heavily abused. And I don't see any merits on its own when compared to a purely free-market regulation of the amount of money in circulation

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October 07, 2015, 04:20:19 PM
 #2124

And what's good in it? Isn't what you say looks more like Socialism, or, rather, Communism, the point that I made at the start?

By giving money for free you disincentivize those who are hard earning it 

No it is not Communism. Your property remains private. Keynesianism is a mathematical game of balance. You give free money ONLY when it needed to create balance or for funding, and you remove money for the same reason. Maybe you dont understand it and my english is not good to explain to you.

Sorry, but I don't see anything good in it. This system if applied will be heavily abused. And I don't see any merits on its own when compared to a purely free-market regulation of the amount of money in circulation
I love all this "free market" talk as we go into QE4 as if it was some promise of afterlife if you worship capitalism.

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October 07, 2015, 05:51:25 PM
 #2125

And what's good in it? Isn't what you say looks more like Socialism, or, rather, Communism, the point that I made at the start?

By giving money for free you disincentivize those who are hard earning it 

No it is not Communism. Your property remains private. Keynesianism is a mathematical game of balance. You give free money ONLY when it needed to create balance or for funding, and you remove money for the same reason. Maybe you dont understand it and my english is not good to explain to you.

Sorry, but I don't see anything good in it. This system if applied will be heavily abused. And I don't see any merits on its own when compared to a purely free-market regulation of the amount of money in circulation
I love all this "free market" talk as we go into QE4 as if it was some promise of afterlife if you worship capitalism.

Sorry but central banks are centrally planned = communist.

We capitalists are 180 degree opposite to what you just said.

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October 07, 2015, 09:48:39 PM
 #2126

Sorry but central banks are centrally planned = communist.
We capitalists are 180 degree opposite to what you just said.

Sorry, but that is a Red Herring since every form of organization or corporation is centrally planned - a hierarchical structure; and people tacitly support governments by using their services such as fiat money - where no one forces you to.

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October 08, 2015, 03:41:20 AM
 #2127

Sorry but central banks are centrally planned = communist.
We capitalists are 180 degree opposite to what you just said.

Sorry, but that is a Red Herring since every form of organization or corporation is centrally planned - a hierarchical structure; and people tacitly support governments by using their services such as fiat money - where no one forces you to.

Yes but a corporation doesn't make decisions on your behalf without asking you first. Or atleast small businesses don't, sure there might be corruption at higher levels.

I`m a pro small/medium business capitalist, not a corporatist.

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October 08, 2015, 08:09:45 AM
 #2128

Monopolies, cartels and the state are inevitable outcomes in any market system. Markets are inherently violent, and there is no way to be "voluntary" within them.

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October 08, 2015, 08:21:08 AM
 #2129

Monopolies, cartels and the state are inevitable outcomes in any market system. Markets are inherently violent, and there is no way to be "voluntary" within them.

That is only half true. What makes you think that any other organization besides the free market will be peaceful.

You admitted that there is no voluntary transaction, so at this point we could just go with the free market as even if its violent, at least its efficient.

Because your system will too be violent, but it will be inefficient, so go with the efficient then.

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October 08, 2015, 11:10:41 AM
 #2130


Yes but a corporation doesn't make decisions on your behalf without asking you first.

You ever hear of management decisions? That's no free market or democracy, but dictatorship.
But governments did ask you when you voted them into office.


That is only half true. What makes you think that any other organization besides the free market [the free market is an organization??] will be peaceful.

You admitted that there is no voluntary transaction, so at this point we could just go with the free market as even if its violent, at least its efficient.

Because your system will too be violent, but it will be inefficient, so go with the efficient then.

There's nothing violent or inefficient about an RBE that actually takes care of you - no more competition for the sake of profit or mundane jobs for the sake of "earning" a right to life, just efficient strategic decisions taking scarcity into account.

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October 08, 2015, 07:22:36 PM
 #2131

I think we are already living in a resource based economy. Is the world economy today not already "resource based" in large part? How is it beneficial to give this concept such a vague name? It's hard to be against something as broad as a "resource based economy", it's basically something that goes without saying for economies everywhere to some degree.



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October 09, 2015, 07:07:44 PM
 #2132

It will not work because resources are limited, and human needs aren't. It would take some serious brainwashing to get people to willingly restrain their consumption. Further, economy with free goods cannot sustain population growth, because it requires continuous innovation to make the same resources feed the increasing population.
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October 09, 2015, 08:07:23 PM
 #2133

It will not work because resources are limited, and human needs aren't. It would take some serious brainwashing to get people to willingly restrain their consumption. Further, economy with free goods cannot sustain population growth, because it requires continuous innovation to make the same resources feed the increasing population.

Human needs are finite. You are brainwashed constantly to consume more than you need to in service to the unending constant consumption requirements of the monetary market system.

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October 09, 2015, 08:09:31 PM
 #2134

I think we are already living in a resource based economy. Is the world economy today not already "resource based" in large part? How is it beneficial to give this concept such a vague name? It's hard to be against something as broad as a "resource based economy", it's basically something that goes without saying for economies everywhere to some degree.

No. The chief organizing principle is monetary value and profits. Meaning that we use our resources extraordinarily inefficiently if it means more profits can be extracted. And since money is an idea, as opposed to something real, there is no economic consequence for this behavior. However, the very real effects of environmental destruction, war, poverty and structural violence continue to increase.

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October 09, 2015, 09:58:51 PM
 #2135



You ever hear of management decisions? That's no free market or democracy, but dictatorship.
But governments did ask you when you voted them into office.

Yea but you own the company, not the employees, and the employees choosed to work there.

The country you are born , you didnt choose, and whatever tyrany is inflicted on you, you didnt choosed it.



There's nothing violent or inefficient about an RBE that actually takes care of you - no more competition for the sake of profit or mundane jobs for the sake of "earning" a right to life, just efficient strategic decisions taking scarcity into account.

And who will make thses efficient decisions? A leader? Will he abuse his power? (like the 99.999999999999999999% of leaders that do).

Where is the separation of powers?



If you make a democracy, then the sheeple cannot decide strategic decisions because they are dumb morons.

If you make a dictatorship then you end up with somebody who will abuse his power.

If you mix the 2 then you have todays paradoxical system.

So the only choice left is free market, laissez faire style Smiley

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October 10, 2015, 06:51:40 AM
 #2136

There is no free market.

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October 10, 2015, 10:36:20 AM
 #2137

There is no free market.

Yes currently there isn't, unfortunately, you you are right on that.

But if there would be one, then the economy would work a lot better.


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October 10, 2015, 11:12:36 AM
 #2138

There can be no free market. Humanity cannot become free from reality. The market must create a state to protect itself from reality.

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October 10, 2015, 11:29:40 AM
 #2139

There can be no free market. Humanity cannot become free from reality. The market must create a state to protect itself from reality.

Just stop with your poetic posts, you make no sense, sorry.

Have you ever been to a grocery store? It is usually a free market there (if it werent for the regulations and taxes the owners had to pay).

I have bought food from farmers, barely regulated, and it tasted good, fresh, and no I wasnt poisoned from it.

Yet when you buy stuff from shops, that are "regulated"  & "health inspected" you often find poisonous chemicals in them, additives, preservants ,and GMO.


So your regulated economy is very efficient, at destroying itself apparently. Sorry but free market is the way to go: tiny or no regulations, and tiny or no taxes Smiley

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October 10, 2015, 06:05:21 PM
 #2140

There can be no free market. Humanity cannot become free from reality. The market must create a state to protect itself from reality.

Just stop with your poetic posts, you make no sense, sorry.

Have you ever been to a grocery store? It is usually a free market there (if it werent for the regulations and taxes the owners had to pay).

I have bought food from farmers, barely regulated, and it tasted good, fresh, and no I wasnt poisoned from it.

Yet when you buy stuff from shops, that are "regulated"  & "health inspected" you often find poisonous chemicals in them, additives, preservants ,and GMO.


So your regulated economy is very efficient, at destroying itself apparently. Sorry but free market is the way to go: tiny or no regulations, and tiny or no taxes Smiley

Stop being a professional troll. You aren't fooling anyone.

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