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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261286 times)
Hodl Life
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November 19, 2014, 09:26:44 PM
 #1961

Did realize that there are communist on this board.

Do you really think we are all "global citizens' haha?

Africans can provide for themselves, but they're too lazy/stupid to do it.

For those who call it racism, I call it realism, remotely intelligent people wouldn't starve the on the world's most fertile soil.
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November 20, 2014, 12:38:46 AM
 #1962

Did realize that there are communist on this board.

Do you really think we are all "global citizens' haha?

Africans can provide for themselves, but they're too lazy/stupid to do it.

For those who call it racism, I call it realism, remotely intelligent people wouldn't starve the on the world's most fertile soil.

Ignorant bigot. 
Hodl Life
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November 20, 2014, 01:20:51 AM
 #1963

Did realize that there are communist on this board.

Do you really think we are all "global citizens' haha?

Africans can provide for themselves, but they're too lazy/stupid to do it.

For those who call it racism, I call it realism, remotely intelligent people wouldn't starve the on the world's most fertile soil.

Ignorant bigot. 
Buzzwords don't really bother me.

Are you going to tell me I am wrong?

Average IQ by country:
Germany: 102
China: 100
Ethiopia: 63
Koto the Gorilla: "She was given IQ tests several times when she was younger and scored between 70 and 95" http://www.tropical-rainforest-animals.com/Koko-the-Gorilla.html

Sources for the IQs: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594204462/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=027597510X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00YH279VBJZK5RPRHBDJ

And also Richard Lynn studies.


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November 20, 2014, 05:33:42 AM
 #1964

Did realize that there are communist on this board.

Do you really think we are all "global citizens' haha?

Africans can provide for themselves, but they're too lazy/stupid to do it.

For those who call it racism, I call it realism, remotely intelligent people wouldn't starve the on the world's most fertile soil.

Ignorant bigot. 
Buzzwords don't really bother me.

Are you going to tell me I am wrong?

Average IQ by country:
Germany: 102
China: 100
Ethiopia: 63
Koto the Gorilla: "She was given IQ tests several times when she was younger and scored between 70 and 95" http://www.tropical-rainforest-animals.com/Koko-the-Gorilla.html

Sources for the IQs: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594204462/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=027597510X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00YH279VBJZK5RPRHBDJ

And also Richard Lynn studies.




It depends.  What's your exact argument?  Geographic? Genetics? Culture? Economics? Historical?

How are you measuring laziness?  How are you measuring intelligence?

I can tell you that Richard Lynn practice poor economics and is largely dismissed by academics
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November 20, 2014, 11:58:53 AM
 #1965

House of Commons debating money creation right now!

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/

Bitcoin combines money, the wrongest thing in the world, with software, the easiest thing in the world to get wrong.
Visit www.thevenusproject.com and www.theZeitgeistMovement.com.
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November 20, 2014, 12:01:10 PM
 #1966

House of Commons debating money creation right now!

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/
Max Keiser should be holding live coverage and commentary. At least it would be interesting to watch.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 20, 2014, 09:45:52 PM
 #1967

Did realize that there are communist on this board.

Do you really think we are all "global citizens' haha?

Africans can provide for themselves, but they're too lazy/stupid to do it.

For those who call it racism, I call it realism, remotely intelligent people wouldn't starve the on the world's most fertile soil.

Ignorant bigot.  
Buzzwords don't really bother me.

Are you going to tell me I am wrong?

Average IQ by country:
Germany: 102
China: 100
Ethiopia: 63

No fair citing a study carried out on people who were victims of malnutrition during formative years and mostly have no education to teach them how to take such tests.
Hodl Life
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November 20, 2014, 09:53:46 PM
 #1968

Did realize that there are communist on this board.

Do you really think we are all "global citizens' haha?

Africans can provide for themselves, but they're too lazy/stupid to do it.

For those who call it racism, I call it realism, remotely intelligent people wouldn't starve the on the world's most fertile soil.

Ignorant bigot.  
Buzzwords don't really bother me.

Are you going to tell me I am wrong?

Average IQ by country:
Germany: 102
China: 100
Ethiopia: 63

No fair citing a study carried out on people who were victims of malnutrition during formative years and mostly have no education to teach them how to take such tests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ-e5XjlmZA @ 1:28:57
practicaldreamer
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November 20, 2014, 10:00:36 PM
 #1969



Average IQ by country:
Germany: 102
China: 100
Ethiopia: 63
Koto the Gorilla: "She was given IQ tests several times when she was younger and scored between 70 and 95" http://www.tropical-rainforest-animals.com/Koko-the-Gorilla.html

Sources for the IQs: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594204462/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687682&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=027597510X&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00YH279VBJZK5RPRHBDJ

And also Richard Lynn studies.




You judge a tree by its fruit.

ps. I wouldn't lay too much store by IQ tests. They don't know what it is that they are trying to measure, and are invariably constructed by men who always seem to come out smelling of roses by their own measure  Grin
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November 21, 2014, 02:08:51 AM
 #1970

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I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
What a really naive approach.

1. It is not RBE, but RBC (resource based currency). Every economy is from definition RBE. Money is just a tool for economy.

2. The evolution was RBE->golden standard->fiat->BTC and that happened for a reason and the reason was rational. Money is always debt and symbol of trust that someone will pay for the debt. With information economy booming, there is no need to hedge those money as in past by resources. Not even need to hedge it with gold. And government trust is not good option as well. Computer algo seems to be best.

Therefore the RBE/RBC is nonsense. It is leftist ideal about good old times like living in the cave. This kind of ignorant activism is what makes from BTC users and holders weirdoes. But the good part of this is that BTC is so low, because "normal people" do not want to touch currency of freaks.
cbeast
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November 21, 2014, 02:32:47 AM
 #1971

Quote
I believe Bitcoin would make for an ideal transition currency until a full RBE can be implemented.
What a really naive approach.

1. It is not RBE, but RBC (resource based currency). Every economy is from definition RBE. Money is just a tool for economy.

2. The evolution was RBE->golden standard->fiat->BTC and that happened for a reason and the reason was rational. Money is always debt and symbol of trust that someone will pay for the debt. With information economy booming, there is no need to hedge those money as in past by resources. Not even need to hedge it with gold. And government trust is not good option as well. Computer algo seems to be best.

Therefore the RBE/RBC is nonsense. It is leftist ideal about good old times like living in the cave. This kind of ignorant activism is what makes from BTC users and holders weirdoes. But the good part of this is that BTC is so low, because "normal people" do not want to touch currency of freaks.
You obviously don't know anything about TZM. It's all about transitional technologies. RBE is a process, not a goal.The very notion of RBC is antithetical to RBE.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 21, 2014, 02:50:29 AM
 #1972

I have seen both Zeitgeist movies and I suffered by the mix of naivete and inconsistency described there.

It is a nice ideas but not about real people. Real people do not behave and never will behave like was described there.

I know a lot about communism, because I lived on the other side of iron curtain and those leftist fairy-tales are nice only as mental exercise. People are greedy and the more they pretend they are not, the more they are. If it is about money and greed, then all people talking about ethics are just useful idiots for others who want power.

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November 21, 2014, 02:58:05 AM
 #1973

I have seen both Zeitgeist movies and I suffered by the mix of naivete and inconsistency described there.

It is a nice ideas but not about real people. Real people do not behave and never will behave like was described there.

I know a lot about communism, because I lived on the other side of iron curtain and those leftist fairy-tales are nice only as mental exercise. People are greedy and the more they pretend they are not, the more they are. If it is about money and greed, then all people talking about ethics are just useful idiots for others who want power.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 21, 2014, 03:02:36 AM
 #1974

Karl Marx, your image upload is somehow out of shape.. But I am sure it was something funny that people post when they have no arguments or even clue..
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November 21, 2014, 03:09:54 AM
 #1975

Karl Marx, your image upload is somehow out of shape.. But I am sure it was something funny that people post when they have no arguments or even clue..
Your slip amygdala is showing.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 21, 2014, 11:38:02 AM
 #1976

Currency Systems Based on Energy Consumed

Introduction

Most countries use a fiat currency system. That is, the items used for money have an intrinsic value that is much less than the value they represent in terms of goods and services they can buy. Most countries have their own currency, but many also allow United State fiat currency to be used, at least in some special circumstances, e.g., by tourists.

From 1945 until 1971 the United States currency was a representative currency rather than a fiat currency. One U.S. dollar represented 1/35 of a troy ounce (889 mg) of gold (gold standard). That is, the owner of a dollar was promised that it could be exchanged for 889 milligrams of gold. The United States changed to a fiat currency in 1971.

Some economists maintain that the inflation/deflation cycle (recessions and depressions) can never be controlled in a fiat currency system, because human decisions about controlling the money supply will never be perfect. Politics interferes too much into those decisions.

Some economists and politicians want the United States to change back to the gold-standard currency. The main problem with this is that there is a finite amount of gold in the Earth that can be mined without expending huge amounts of precious energy. Thus, at some point in time gold extraction will peak and then fall, eventually to near zero.

Why a Gold Standard for a World Currency Would Not Work

For the following discussion assume that the U.S. dollar is the currency for the entire world and that it is fixed at a certain value in grams of gold; i.e., the $ is a representative currency using the gold standard. The following graph shows a rough estimate of the amount of gold that can be extracted in future years (red curve) and estimates ten cycles of recycling to yield the estimated blue curve for the total amount of extracted and recycled gold that would be available for each year.

So, if the blue curve is approximately correct and the dollar were set to a fixed amount of gold available each year, the number of dollars in circulation would peak at about year 2030 and then fall to zero at about year 2500. Obviously, this is not a good property for a representative currency to have.

The government department that sets the amount of the money supply might not know that the amount of available gold was decreasing; so, it would keep the money supply higher than it should be. If this continued far into the future, the so-called representative currency would, in effect, become a fiat currency.
An Energy Standard for a World Currency

Apparently Buckminster Fuller was first in 1969 to recommend, in his book Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth, that a global currency be based on energy; he called it the "Kilowatt Dollar".
Petro-Dollar

More recently in 2005 a similar proposal was made in which a "Petro-dollar" was based on a set amount of energy, presumably energy gotten from burning petroleum. In 2009 a similar proposal was made to base a global currency on "exergy", energy delivered to consumers.

A currency based on energy obtained from petroleum has a similar problem as the one that occurs with a gold standard. A representative currency based on current energy use would fluctuate if non-renewable energy sources are not developed fast enough. Energy use, being mostly from fossil fuels, would peak at about 2025 and then fall off to some level of only energy use from renewable sources. (Nuclear energy will provide only a small fraction of the energy use.)

The number of dollars in circulation would peak at about year 2025 and then fall to zero at about year 2300. Obviously, this is not a good property for a representative currency to have.

Eco-Dollar

Perhaps a better proposal for an energy currency is the "Eco-Dollar" proposed in 2008, defined as 1-eco-dollar representing 1-kilowatt-hour of renewable energy (with a alteration by me since the proposal included non-renewable nuclear energy, which will be negligible). The problem with this is that only a small fraction of energy use now comes from renewable sources, so it currently is not a good basis for a representative currency.

Energy-Dollar

Of course, energy consumption by humans cannot grow indefinitely, because there is a limit to the amount of energy that can be captured from the Sun. The graph below shows the world energy-consumption data and a hyperbolic-tangent-function fit to the data in order to extrapolate into the future with an eventual asymptotic consumption amount of 350x106 BTU/year/person (~12 kW/person), for an assumed final asymptotic population of about 8.3x109. This is about the per-capita consumption of the United States now. This amounts to a consumption asymptote of about 2900x1015 BTU/year [2900 quad/year or (2900*1055)x1015 joules/year=3.06x1021 J/yr=9.69x1010 kilowatts]:

Currently the U.S. uses about 350x106 BTU/person (~12 kW/person), industrialized countries average about 200x106 BTU/person (~6.5 kW/person), developing countries average about 35x106 BTU/person (~1.2 kW/person) and the world average is about 75x106 BTU/person (~2.5 kW/person). The leveling off assumes that renewable energy sources will be developed in time to make the transition from the peaked fossil-fuels extraction curve to the smoothly rising energy-consumption curve.

Thus, a representative currency using energy consumption, for no energy-value inflation over time, would have an increasing supply of money that has the same slope as the energy-consumption curve. Currently the ratio of kilowatt-hours per dollar would be ([480x1015*1055/3.6x106]kilowatt-hours)/8.36x1012$ = ~17 kilowatt-hours/$, using the figure of 8.36x1012$ as the U.S. M2 money supply. At the asymptote the M2 value would be ~5.1x1013$ for a factor of ~6 total increase from now; which value would stay constant in future years.

The average price of energy would always be 1/17 $/kWh =~ $0.06/kWh; some energy will cost more and some will cost less because of the amount of energy required to provide energy from different sources will be different. For example, as crude oil becomes scarce its price will go up, but some renewable-energy prices will go down as the money supply is changed to keep the $ pegged at the fixed amount of energy.

The above calculations assume that M2 includes all U.S. money in the world; if the total $ world money supply is larger the numbers have to be changed to reflect that.

This approach to defining a representative currency based on energy consumption combines features of the two previously mentioned energy currencies (Petro-Dollar & Eco-Dollar): The dollar is pegged at a certain number of kWh of energy when the currency is established and stays at that value of kWh/$ from then on. The money supply changes as the amount of energy consumed changess. Initially the dollars are mostly Petro-Dollars; after fossil fuels are depleted renewable energy is the consumed energy, so the dollars are then Eco-Dollars.

Conclusion

It is possible to design a world representative currency system that is relatively inflation proof by pegging the value of the dollar to a certain amount of energy. The money supply would be changed at the same rate as energy is consumed.


L. David Roper, http://arts.bev.net/RoperLDavid/; roperld@vt.edu
L. David Roper interdisciplinary studies


Source: http://www.roperld.com/science/CurrencySystems.htm
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November 21, 2014, 01:22:41 PM
 #1977


It is possible to design a world representative currency system that is relatively inflation proof by pegging the value of the dollar to a certain amount of energy. The money supply would be changed at the same rate as energy is consumed.
What do you think Bitcoin mining uses?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 21, 2014, 05:05:52 PM
 #1978

The problem with that is that it's a one-way peg.  Energy has been converted into Bitcoin, but bitcoin can't be converted back into energy.  Therefore people with bitcoin holdings cannot sell the energy back on the open market if this bitcoin thing doesn't work out.

So, yeah, it's based on energy consumed.  But energy once it has been consumed (and can't be consumed again) has no market value.
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November 22, 2014, 02:40:21 AM
 #1979

The problem with that is that it's a one-way peg.  Energy has been converted into Bitcoin, but bitcoin can't be converted back into energy.  Therefore people with bitcoin holdings cannot sell the energy back on the open market if this bitcoin thing doesn't work out.

So, yeah, it's based on energy consumed.  But energy once it has been consumed (and can't be consumed again) has no market value.
That's an old prostitutes adage. It applies to anything. What's your point? 2-way pegs have counterparty risk and are subject to fraud. Pick your poison, work or trust.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 27, 2014, 01:31:59 PM
 #1980

Did anyone post this?

Founder of the zeitgeist movement asks for 3 answers and propositions for the following 3 questions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGyKuyGhaE

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