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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261016 times)
Rassah
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December 28, 2014, 08:17:34 AM
 #2021

The incompatibility lies in that Bitcoin is part of a monetary system and market economy, whereas TZM rejects the monetary system and the market economy entirely.

It's a bit ironic that although TZM rejects the monetary system and the market economy entirely, almost none of its followers do.



tl, dr

recource based economy is really just communism
Communism uses money like rubles, pesos, and yuan. RBE doesn't.

Actually no, the ruble was not a money, per se. Money is basically like any other commodity, traded on the exchange, and having its value established by the same supply vs demand aspects like everything else. Cost of labor (wages) and price of goods all change constantly in relation to money, and depend of the supply of each compared to the demand of each (how much money is in circulation vs how much that money is sought by others, compared to how many apples are in season right now vs how many people want apples, determines how much money will be exchanged for apples, aka their price).

In contrast, rubles were essentially coupons or points that could be exchanged for other things based on a fixed exchange rate. Job wages were not earned based on demand, as they would be with money, but rewarded in ruble "points" based on their perceived importance, and the number of ruble "points" spent on an apple would be set (by central planners) based on their need for subsistence, and somewhat on the complexity of its production. In essense, a ruble was no different than a card you could get for 8 free coffees, where each time you visit, one of the 8 coffee squares gets punched out with a hole punch.

So, yeah, RBE is like communism, where all resources are planned out, and allocated using the point system.

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December 28, 2014, 08:40:12 AM
 #2022

The incompatibility lies in that Bitcoin is part of a monetary system and market economy, whereas TZM rejects the monetary system and the market economy entirely.

It's a bit ironic that although TZM rejects the monetary system and the market economy entirely, almost none of its followers do.



tl, dr

recource based economy is really just communism
Communism uses money like rubles, pesos, and yuan. RBE doesn't.

Actually no, the ruble was not a money, per se. Money is basically like any other commodity, traded on the exchange, and having its value established by the same supply vs demand aspects like everything else. Cost of labor (wages) and price of goods all change constantly in relation to money, and depend of the supply of each compared to the demand of each (how much money is in circulation vs how much that money is sought by others, compared to how many apples are in season right now vs how many people want apples, determines how much money will be exchanged for apples, aka their price).

In contrast, rubles were essentially coupons or points that could be exchanged for other things based on a fixed exchange rate. Job wages were not earned based on demand, as they would be with money, but rewarded in ruble "points" based on their perceived importance, and the number of ruble "points" spent on an apple would be set (be central planners) based on their need for subsistence, and somewhat on the complexity of its production. In essense, a ruble was no different than a card you could get for 8 free coffees, where each time you visit, one of the 8 coffee squares gets punched out with a hole punch.

So, yeah, RBE is like communism, where all resources are planned out, and allocated using the point system.
In theory I suppose. Rubles turn into money on the black market.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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December 28, 2014, 05:46:22 PM
 #2023

tl, dr

recource based economy is really just communism
Communism uses money like rubles, pesos, and yuan. RBE doesn't.
...
In contrast, rubles were essentially coupons or points that could be exchanged for other things based on a fixed exchange rate. Job wages were not earned based on demand, as they would be with money, but rewarded in ruble "points" based on their perceived importance, and the number of ruble "points" spent on an apple would be set (by central planners) based on their need for subsistence, and somewhat on the complexity of its production. In essense, a ruble was no different than a card you could get for 8 free coffees, where each time you visit, one of the 8 coffee squares gets punched out with a hole punch.

So, yeah, RBE is like communism, where all resources are planned out, and allocated using the point system.
In theory I suppose. Rubles turn into money on the black market.


That's probably more a foreshadowing of RBE than anything. If resources are efficiently allocated, and everything one needs to survive is provided, people will still use something as money on the black market to try to get a little bit more.

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December 29, 2014, 04:23:04 AM
 #2024

tl, dr

recource based economy is really just communism
Communism uses money like rubles, pesos, and yuan. RBE doesn't.
...
In contrast, rubles were essentially coupons or points that could be exchanged for other things based on a fixed exchange rate. Job wages were not earned based on demand, as they would be with money, but rewarded in ruble "points" based on their perceived importance, and the number of ruble "points" spent on an apple would be set (by central planners) based on their need for subsistence, and somewhat on the complexity of its production. In essense, a ruble was no different than a card you could get for 8 free coffees, where each time you visit, one of the 8 coffee squares gets punched out with a hole punch.

So, yeah, RBE is like communism, where all resources are planned out, and allocated using the point system.
In theory I suppose. Rubles turn into money on the black market.


That's probably more a foreshadowing of RBE than anything. If resources are efficiently allocated, and everything one needs to survive is provided, people will still use something as money on the black market to try to get a little bit more.
Yeah that will probably be for things like clean, water and food. Money is already lowering our lifespan.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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January 02, 2015, 12:58:08 PM
 #2025

For a long time, I was thinking that an RBE, precisely water (for it's capacity to integrate all human activates, from energy +/- - to pee pee - poo poo, and necessity in life) was great.

However I don't think that fiat makes people bad, or hunger, thrust or lack of what ever. And this simple realization means, that fundamentally it's not on what you base your economy, but who is part of your economy. which leads back to the old meaning of economy, aka domestic intendance. In short you don't need accounting-laws-regulations with the Children of God, however with the human beings... what ever mean you will develop they will hack... that's the only thing they will ever have.

So yes the problem isn't the "accounting gimmick" but the people, particularly the bad ones, aka those that fist the free will of another human being by what ever means at their disposal for their own benefit. And that's where it gets dirty... the rest is technocratic useless energy waste.

I hope it wasn't too OT for you. But enjoy the road is fun.

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January 07, 2015, 07:16:59 AM
 #2026

I think,if we tried our best to do what we should do,then it is the resource of based economyFiber optic adapter
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January 07, 2015, 09:46:18 AM
 #2027

Damn i`m getting really tired about these Keynesianist bandits, then fuck up the whole worlds, and they also profit from it.

I`m really tired of it, we really need a huge change, because the global debt is growing, and the day of wreckoning is coming closer and closer.

This Keynesian Ponzi Scheme wont end well, when all the printed money gets sucked in like a vacuum from the World GDP, and will fuck up all wealth that common people had and they will lose everything.

They are evil bandits and madmans, and really the scum of the planet, we really need to get rid of them once and for all.

I hope John Keynes burns in hell for this (although i`m an atheist)  Grin

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July 21, 2015, 08:24:47 AM
 #2028

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUmdKcYwFLk

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July 22, 2015, 02:53:14 AM
 #2029

https://mises.org/library/evolutionary-psychology-and-antimarket-bias

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July 22, 2015, 12:35:31 PM
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Excellent article. It explains a lot, including why all market supporters at some point were anti market  Cry
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July 23, 2015, 03:58:03 AM
 #2031


Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

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July 23, 2015, 09:10:25 AM
 #2032

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

You sound very brainwashed into your communist/anarchist mindset.

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July 23, 2015, 11:45:37 AM
 #2033

Both sides (anarcho-capitalism and anarcho-communism) have flaws in their line of arguing.

It's true what Marxists argue that private property rights can, at the end of the day, only be ensured by force, i.e. police and military. At the end of the day, the nation state (which libertarians claim to despise) can be seen as the organization that provides these services. Don't like your state? Go somewhere else. We have almost 200 nation states. Plenty of choice. Free market at work! Yay!

Anarcho-communism on the other hand expects all people to adopt a set of certain values like solidarity and equality. The New Man. But there is no guarantee for this to occur. Discourse in left ideologies are often about the revolutionary strategies of how to achieve this goal.

If you think long enough, you come to the conclusion that we already have "anarchy" today, and the interplay of forces would always arrive at the structures of nation states, which have to both cooperate (trade) and compete, with slightly varying sets of societal norms and rules.

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July 23, 2015, 01:22:57 PM
 #2034


Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

You do realize that just sounds like a bunch of free love hippie bullshit, right?  I know you're spouting the NLRBE party line but you can't be serious. The longer I live the more I realize that people are mostly just a loose collection of self serving assholes. People are haters and ruthless. The only reason about 90% join any group or movement is to fulfill their own personal needs. I find it highly unlikely that the vast bulk of the human animals out there, in the wild, will ever want to learn the "complex social behaviors" necessary to truly care about the environment or each other. Capitalism is the perfect example of greedy self serving assholes having the power and powerless self serving assholes supporting the system because they think they can rise to power someday. The "free market" is nothing but unrestricted trade without price fixing or government interference. That's never existed at any point in history and cannot exist anywhere in the world. A free market is a fantasy because individuals are self serving assholes that need to be controlled.

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July 23, 2015, 01:53:00 PM
 #2035

Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws. To pretend otherwise, as we have been doing for centuries, has proven disastrous. The kind of "education" advocated is no education at all, merely the instillation of values detrimental to humanity and the environment. The free for all market mentality only benefits the few psychopaths and control freaks who seek dominance over all else. The system is designed to perpetuate the values of the few at the expense of the lives of the many. Attributing anything to "human nature" is a cop out, as there is no significant human nature to speak of. We must all learn the complex social and other behaviors that will allow us to negotiate our environment. But the fact that for a brief time, we had to be subjugated to the whims of governments and capitalists does not justify continuing this destructive system. It is not natural to destroy our planet so that a few people can make some money. To honestly believe this is a mental illness.

You sound very brainwashed into your communist/anarchist mindset.

He is mostly right on his analysis tho, the problem is communism doesn't really work when applied and it all tends to end up where we are at now. Our only hope is that automation delivers goods for most people without needing to work exploitative jobs.
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July 23, 2015, 07:45:34 PM
 #2036


Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws.

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

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July 24, 2015, 01:03:37 AM
 #2037


Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws.

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

I think he may mean that since free will is probably not true, free market is by definition a non sequetur, a fallacy. There's no freedom really. Everyone is limited by genetics and environment.

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July 24, 2015, 04:23:49 AM
 #2038


Nice capitalist propaganda. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as, nor can there be, a "free market". We are all bound by the limitations of reality and universal natural laws.

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

It's not voluntary.

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July 27, 2015, 07:51:12 AM
 #2039

What's so unnatural about people wanting to voluntarily trade for mutual benefit?

What's so unnatural about people "taking" out competitors, to increase trade/profits - using all sorts of devious & cunning schemes, also termed a free market?
What's so unnatural about me killing you and taking "your property"?

You're asking all the wrong questions, my friend.

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July 28, 2015, 12:04:07 AM
 #2040

A free market is a fantasy because individuals are self serving assholes that need to be controlled.

When you say "controlled" you mean civilized. Laws are agreements to keep that civilization together. Personal motivations are irrelevant. Humans are social and therefore a collective by definition. You aren't born Hindu in a Muslim family and you aren't born Communist in a Capitalist family. Systems have been created by people to effect civilizations, but there is little significant difference between any of them. People are people wherever you go. They are all capable of good and evil, smart and dumb things. It doesn't matter what system is used as long as it is capable of supporting the most successful civilization. This is where RBE projects like TVP and TZM and many others study civilizations to determine which methods work best in the long run. They use science to back up their data points. You can knock it, but you also then have to refute the science.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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