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Author Topic: A Resource Based Economy  (Read 261274 times)
BitCoinNutJob
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November 15, 2014, 02:33:48 PM
 #1941

The economy of resources is a kind of dictatorship. A great dictator decides how many resources can you have. If he wants you to live, he gives you resources. If he wants you to die, he stops giving you resources.

The dictator would be the universe and limits of technology if we are talking about the goal of RBE.

Wrong. The dictators are always humans.

The RBE is still philosophy, in a RBE as defined by zeitgeist movement/venus project the dictator is science and technology.  No human would apparently be a dictator according to them.

Whether thats possible right now or ever i dont know but at least read what i wrote Cool  

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very rare fruit
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November 15, 2014, 03:05:05 PM
 #1942

The RBE is a philosophy without experimental evidence. Give me the experiments which prove that RBE is working well. Without experiments i don't believe anything.
cbeast
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November 15, 2014, 04:28:11 PM
 #1943

The RBE is a philosophy without experimental evidence. Give me the experiments which prove that RBE is working well. Without experiments i don't believe anything.
What experimental evidence would convince you?

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
Cryddit
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November 15, 2014, 08:03:30 PM
 #1944

Wrong. The dictators are always humans.

True so far.  Probably not true for very many decades more.  This is either terrifying or reassuring, depending on your degree of pessimism.
BitcoinHeroes
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November 15, 2014, 09:00:54 PM
 #1945

The economy of resources is a kind of dictatorship. A great dictator decides how many resources can you have. If he wants you to live, he gives you resources. If he wants you to die, he stops giving you resources.
This is not necessarily true. There are always limits to the amount of resources available as the land that people live on can only produce so much resources.

A resource based economy is essentially one that the person who owns more land has more power and wealth
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November 15, 2014, 09:31:44 PM
 #1946

How to convince people that this system works without to test it first? I can't accept a theory without evidence. This is not the scientific way.
cbeast
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November 16, 2014, 04:09:55 AM
 #1947

How to convince people that this system works without to test it first? I can't accept a theory without evidence. This is not the scientific way.
Have you tested to see if jumping off a cliff will kill you? What evidence do you need? RBE has a plethora of evidence. The difference is, it won't kill you if you try it yourself.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 16, 2014, 04:38:35 AM
 #1948

How to convince people that this system works without to test it first? I can't accept a theory without evidence. This is not the scientific way.
Have you tested to see if jumping off a cliff will kill you? What evidence do you need? RBE has a plethora of evidence. The difference is, it won't kill you if you try it yourself.
Jumping off a cliff is a poor analogy, it's both intuitive and has been tested. Proof of concept is important.
cbeast
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November 16, 2014, 04:55:16 AM
 #1949

How to convince people that this system works without to test it first? I can't accept a theory without evidence. This is not the scientific way.
Have you tested to see if jumping off a cliff will kill you? What evidence do you need? RBE has a plethora of evidence. The difference is, it won't kill you if you try it yourself.
Jumping off a cliff is a poor analogy, it's both intuitive and has been tested. Proof of concept is important.
RBE is also common sense. Did your parents charge you for room and board when you were a child? Would you charge your elderly and infirmed parent for such support? Just extend that concept and treat everyone as your family. It is much easier to understand when survival is a higher priority in situations such as total war.

RBE is as simple as e=mc2 to describe and just as difficult to understand. All science is like that. Scientific truths are simple to demonstrate and nearly impossible to thoroughly explain. That's why scientists go through 6 or more years of college. That's also why science is not a debate and I will not engage in debate. Debaters use logical fallacies to cheat their way through arguments.

Ask me a specific question about what you don't understand or be perceived as arguing through ignorance.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
worle1bm
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November 16, 2014, 05:26:59 AM
 #1950

RBE is also common sense. Did your parents charge you for room and board when you were a child? Would you charge your elderly and infirmed parent for such support? Just extend that concept and treat everyone as your family. It is much easier to understand when survival is a higher priority in situations such as total war.
No, it isn't common sense. That's why it isn't intuitive. A RBE economy is not analogous to the nuclear family situation, again that's a poor example and an extreme oversimplification.

RBE is as simple as e=mc2 to describe and just as difficult to understand. All science is like that. Scientific truths are simple to demonstrate and nearly impossible to thoroughly explain. That's why scientists go through 6 or more years of college. That's also why science is not a debate and I will not engage in debate. Debaters use logical fallacies to cheat their way through arguments.
Except this isn't science, and your pedantic meanderings aren't proof of anything.

Ask me a specific question about what you don't understand or be perceived as arguing through ignorance.
How aggressive. Why are you entering a discussion convinced you have all the answers? Isn't that the hallmark of ignorance rather than intellect?
cbeast
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November 16, 2014, 06:37:33 AM
 #1951

RBE is also common sense. Did your parents charge you for room and board when you were a child? Would you charge your elderly and infirmed parent for such support? Just extend that concept and treat everyone as your family. It is much easier to understand when survival is a higher priority in situations such as total war.
No, it isn't common sense. That's why it isn't intuitive. A RBE economy is not analogous to the nuclear family situation, again that's a poor example and an extreme oversimplification.
Why do you believe that RBE is not like a nuclear family? Can you give an example?

RBE is as simple as e=mc2 to describe and just as difficult to understand. All science is like that. Scientific truths are simple to demonstrate and nearly impossible to thoroughly explain. That's why scientists go through 6 or more years of college. That's also why science is not a debate and I will not engage in debate. Debaters use logical fallacies to cheat their way through arguments.
Except this isn't science, and your pedantic meanderings aren't proof of anything.
That wasn't meant to be a scientific statement. It is epistemology. You just made my point by making a fallacious argument.


Ask me a specific question about what you don't understand or be perceived as arguing through ignorance.
How aggressive. Why are you entering a discussion convinced you have all the answers? Isn't that the hallmark of ignorance rather than intellect?
I am merely your humble servant.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
loulis
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November 16, 2014, 10:05:27 AM
 #1952

There are two ways to have access to finite resources.

1) With monetary system
2) Without monetary system, but with a military junta.

Choose what you want.
BitCoinNutJob
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November 16, 2014, 12:13:54 PM
 #1953

The RBE is a philosophy without experimental evidence. Give me the experiments which prove that RBE is working well. Without experiments i don't believe anything.
What experimental evidence would convince you?

When is more relevant to if imo.  I believe we would move to a RBE type society in future sure but right now in 2014-2030 say seems like just a philosophy since we need everyone to agree. People in power have no reason to change they already have abundant resources.

& im not sure anyone really knows if an RBE would work at this point in history.... are we evolved enough yet collectively in 2014 to shift our values?

But yeah i think TZM should be using donator money to be working on practical decentralized resource allocating systems and perhaps supporting projects like onecommunityglobal.

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November 16, 2014, 03:59:23 PM
 #1954

RBE is also common sense. Did your parents charge you for room and board when you were a child? Would you charge your elderly and infirmed parent for such support? Just extend that concept and treat everyone as your family. It is much easier to understand when survival is a higher priority in situations such as total war.

The problem is scale. This approach just doesn't scale up. It's also a trust problem. How [typo edit] Who do we trust to be the bread earners and distributors in the global family?

The actual antithesis to capitalism is not communism or an RBE (which would be state capitalism), it is self-sustainability, even where it does not seem to be economical at first sight to abstain from large-scale division of labor. If everyone lived in their own biotecture earthships with solar power and 3D printers (or even more sophisticated replicators), i.e. when all basic needs are provided for without having to be distributed by an authority, only then we can perhaps do away with money, as any projects beyond that may (or may not) be accomplished with a voluntary and open source mentality.

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
cbeast
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November 16, 2014, 04:56:07 PM
 #1955

RBE is also common sense. Did your parents charge you for room and board when you were a child? Would you charge your elderly and infirmed parent for such support? Just extend that concept and treat everyone as your family. It is much easier to understand when survival is a higher priority in situations such as total war.

The problem is scale. This approach just doesn't scale up. It's also a trust problem. How do we trust to be the bread earners and distributors in the global family?

The actual antithesis to capitalism is not communism or an RBE (which would be state capitalism), it is self-sustainability, even where it does not seem to be economical at first sight to abstain from large-scale division of labor. If everyone lived in their own biotecture earthships with solar power and 3D printers (or even more sophisticated replicators), i.e. when all basic needs are provided for without having to be distributed by an authority, only then we can perhaps do away with money, as any projects beyond that may (or may not) be accomplished with a voluntary and open source mentality.
Even with an open source project at some point consensus chooses an authority. With the blockchain the most proof of work (sometimes called proof of AUTHenticity) is chosen because it is believed to be the most authoritative. Authority can be trustless if it is awarded and limited by merit.

We often don't appreciate that we are fortunate to live in a world blessed with technological unemployment. Instead we compete for jobs that are abstract, redundant, obsolete, and offer little satisfaction. The system of employment is barely held together by inflating the economy. The open source nature of RBE offers alternative employment incentives. In fact even now most open source work is incentivized by pure enjoyment.

It's difficult to predict when revolutions will happen or they wouldn't be called revolutions. There are small revolutions happening every day that aggregate until they disrupt the social ecosystems. The real revolutions won't be 3D printers and Earthships, it will be the small choices we make every day that eventually change our behavior management skills and technologies. Understanding Bitcoin is one such very difficult choice for people to make, but one that can help bring better decision making technology to help manage Earth's sustainability.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 18, 2014, 05:23:01 PM
 #1956

RBE is also common sense. Did your parents charge you for room and board when you were a child? Would you charge your elderly and infirmed parent for such support? Just extend that concept and treat everyone as your family. It is much easier to understand when survival is a higher priority in situations such as total war.

The problem is scale. This approach just doesn't scale up. It's also a trust problem. How do we trust to be the bread earners and distributors in the global family?

The actual antithesis to capitalism is not communism or an RBE (which would be state capitalism), it is self-sustainability, even where it does not seem to be economical at first sight to abstain from large-scale division of labor. If everyone lived in their own biotecture earthships with solar power and 3D printers (or even more sophisticated replicators), i.e. when all basic needs are provided for without having to be distributed by an authority, only then we can perhaps do away with money, as any projects beyond that may (or may not) be accomplished with a voluntary and open source mentality.

But HOW do you keep an economy alive if more and more and more jobs keep getting replaced by technonolgy? Eventually even surgeries will be made on a machine like the one Prometheus. Maybe in 100 years, who knows, but it will eventually happen. Even if it's far, transitions have to start happening at some point.
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November 19, 2014, 01:01:46 AM
 #1957

But HOW do you keep an economy alive if more and more and more jobs keep getting replaced by technonolgy? Eventually even surgeries will be made on a machine like the one Prometheus. Maybe in 100 years, who knows, but it will eventually happen. Even if it's far, transitions have to start happening at some point.

Who needs jobs? What do we need "an economy" for?

That's the theory though. In practice, bullshit jobs will continue, and if/when we expand into space, that will create a lot of jobs too (even if a lot of things are automated, there will be need for proper planning, etc...).

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
cbeast
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November 19, 2014, 01:16:16 AM
 #1958

But HOW do you keep an economy alive if more and more and more jobs keep getting replaced by technonolgy? Eventually even surgeries will be made on a machine like the one Prometheus. Maybe in 100 years, who knows, but it will eventually happen. Even if it's far, transitions have to start happening at some point.

Who needs jobs? What do we need "an economy" for?

That's the theory though. In practice, bullshit jobs will continue, and if/when we expand into space, that will create a lot of jobs too (even if a lot of things are automated, there will be need for proper planning, etc...).
Bullshit jobs exist because guns. With that mentality, we will not make it through the next 100 years let alone into space.

Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.
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November 19, 2014, 01:32:22 AM
 #1959

No jobs - because everyone is replace by machines - this is absurd.

If you have nothing, and you are hungry, you have only these options: You can get it as a gift from someone, you can make your own food from the nature, you can make something and trade it, or you can do something for someone. That is all possibilities. The last method is called a job.

Children get food as a gift from their parents. Going on welfare is a gift from the government, but what those guys have to give, is only what they have taken from others.

When someone save, either you yourself or someone else, they can make ingenious machinery to increase the productivity of your work. That is the role of the machines, and someone has to save, to get that. It is a requirement.

As machines help to improve the productivity of work in general, the wages in general rise. Your salary will also rise, else you will just quit and move over to a better paid job. At that point, your employer will consider investing in machines, not before.



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November 19, 2014, 10:32:16 AM
 #1960

water as Infinite resource:

Stan Meyers water powered Buggy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a74uarqap2E

It Runs On Water Full Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81RQ6XwaRyM
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