Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[icopress]

It seems that something serious is being planned, since 7 special aircraft with top management urgently took off from Moscow (apparently).

Does Putin have a heart attack? An emergency ambulance helicopter flew out of the gray area.

[1714111406]

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[1714111406]

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[suchmoon]

Does Putin have a heart attack? An emergency ambulance helicopter flew out of the gray area.

There was also a Norwegian medical helicopter up north near Murmansk apparently taking someone from Russia to Norway.

But some people following this regularly say that this isn't particularly unusual. Perhaps nowadays it attracts more attention because of the war and the fact that air traffic has declined significantly due to sanctions so the 7 aircraft are more noticeable.

Speaking of heart attacks, where's Shoigu LOL.

Edit - finally MOD confirmed the conversion of their Black Sea flagship to a stationary submarine:

The missile cruiser "Moskva" sank while being towed to its destination in a storm due to damage to the hull received due to a fire from the detonation of ammunition. This was reported on Thursday in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

I hope our Kremlin friends finally got their propaganda material on this unfortunate event and will share it in this thread. They've been weirdly avoiding this topic so far.

[paxmao]

Ammunition detonated on the flagship of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, the Moskva cruiser, the ship was seriously damaged, the crew was completely evacuated, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

If this spontaneous detonation sounds like bullshit, it's because it most likely is bullshit. The "ammunition" that detonated was apparently delivered by a Ukrainian "Neptune" missile.

The Ukrainian military has hit the Russian cruiser Moskva by Neptune missiles, causing serious damage to the warship.

BTW allegedly that's the infamous "Russian warship" from the early days of the war.

Edit: unconfirmed report of distress signal and eventual sinking. ~500 people on board ("completely evacuated" is likely bullshit too) and a massive blow to the Black Sea fleet and to Putin's ego.

Two missiles sent. The best evidence that it was an Ukrainian attack are the reports of the rest of the ships moving further away from Ukraine, as reported by US and verifiable by OS Int. That is a fuc**ng ton of money.

...

The strategy of the 'defenders' did indeed seem to be to use multiple civilian buildings and keep the civilians hostage in them while doing so.  At least that's my analysis based on the footage I've seen and the pretty much universal testimony of the liberated civilians.
...

Source? Please, do not say it comes from any Russian Ministry pleaaaase...

From a source I normally trust, except when they claim that taxes are too high, residents from Yahidne, south of Chernihiv were kept as shield for Putin's troops.

They claim that some Russian soldiers were kind of helpful, even escorting them to grab water, clothes or take some fresh air (that is, apart from having them kidnapped in basements in which people did die of suffocation and the rest had to live with the corpses. Some were not even a year old), but others were threatening. However they did shoot a father and an 12yr old daughter when they tried to escape town.

However, the Buddhist Tuvan troops (Tuva religion) ... that was a different story. They raped, treated with violence, drunk a lot and did not let them out of the basements ever.

All of them looted laptops, branded clothes, phones,... Just vulgar thieves.

Soldiers had been given "kits" explaining them why they were in Ukraine.

[coolcoinz]

Your video on the second link shows an alleged missile attack on a high-rise building in Kyiv and its consequences. It was the success of the Ukrainian missile defense at the very beginning of the operation, a Russian missile aimed at a military facility was shot down and its fragments fell into a residential building. If a Russian rocket hit the house, the house would not have a hole in the side, but a large pile of rubble.

You can see the missile explode. It wasn't a dud, the explosion takes out 4 floors, which on the average is 12 m in diameter. 12m explosion inside a building made of concrete and steel, not bricks. Who are you trying to fool with "fragments falling on the building". By fragments you must mean a warhead that explodes on impact.

The third video shows a missile attack on the building of the Kharkiv city administration, where at that moment a gathering of nationalists was taking place. These data were obtained and confirmed by Russian intelligence from several sources. The Russian special services have long hands, I recommend that the militants of the national battalions do not gather in groups of more than 20 people and do not stay in one place for a long time. The range of the Kalibr missile is more than 2500 km, the range of the X-101 missile is more than 5500 km, the range of the Iskander missile is up to 500 km, the high-precision missile can be struck from the sea, from the air or from the ground at any point in Ukraine at any time.

And that missile left the building standing instead of a "large pile of rubble".
Every time Russians kill civilians it's blamed on nationalists. Apparently nationalists are everywhere in Ukraine and that includes women and children.

[suchmoon]

Two missiles sent. The best evidence that it was an Ukrainian attack are the reports of the rest of the ships moving further away from Ukraine, as reported by US and verifiable by OS Int. That is a fuc**ng ton of money.

Remember those yachts being seized around the world... a couple of those is worth roughly as much as that missile cruiser. Isn't it amazing how during Putins reign "individuals" were able to amass such wealth but the state can't build any new warships of that size and is using 40-years old Soviet ships with defense systems that can be defeated by a Turkish drone.

Speaking of Bayraktar, a couple of weeks ago Kremlin claimed to have destroyed 35 of 36 that Ukraine allegedly had, which is such an obvious nonsense (Ukraine never had that many; and definitely had more than one remaining). Since then they claim to have destroyed a few more. Those negative remaining drones must be some sort of spacetime anomaly, which would explain the spontaneous combustion of the ill-fated warship

[coolcoinz]

The missile cruiser "Moskva" sank while being towed to its destination in a storm due to damage to the hull received due to a fire from the detonation of ammunition. This was reported on Thursday in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

I hope our Kremlin friends finally got their propaganda material on this unfortunate event and will share it in this thread. They've been weirdly avoiding this topic so far.

Earlier they claimed that they had a fire that caused an ammo storage to explode and damage the ship, but whole crew was safely evacuated and all missiles were undamaged.
That Russian landing ship Orsk also had a fire a few weeks ago that caused it to sink. Probably an electrical malfunction, nothing to worry about comrades. Definitely not a missile strike!

Putin got a report that Moskva was destroyed.  Before they could explain that it was a ship, not the capital, he lost consciousness.

Remember those yachts being seized around the world... a couple of those is worth roughly as much as that missile cruiser. Isn't it amazing how during Putins reign "individuals" were able to amass such wealth but the state can't build any new warships of that size and is using 40-years old Soviet ships with defense systems that can be defeated by a Turkish drone.

As far as I remember Sergei Pugachev, a former friend of Putin, said that the reason for the state of the army is the reason why they have all this wealth. Putin and "his people" sell everything the Soviet army had to offer and use the money for their own benefit. They even stripped electronics and sold it for scrap, which is why many Russian tanks in Ukraine looked like homeless people were living inside. That's why Putin could afford that enormous complex on the Black Sea coast.

[LTU_btc]

I think it was like this. The national police of Ukraine entered the city and staged a cleansing operation, killing first comers without blue armbands (- Boн пaцaны бeз cиниx пoвязoк, мoжнo пo ним cтpeлять? - A тo, бля!), and especially "collaborators" with white armbands. Then, in the propaganda department, they decided that it was possible to make a good picture on this and blame the Russians.

From this video, I hear ''пoпpoбyй'', not ''A тo, бля!'' Any way, this video proofs nothing. And today I saw reports on Telegram from Mariupol that Russians forcing civilians to wear white armbands. Though, I'm not sure how reliable information it is

And what about Kramatorsk? I see everything quickly calmed down there after the serial number surfaced. Provocation failed? But there 50 people died from a missile strike with cluster munitions on their own civilians. An ugly story, it would be nice to deal with it and punish the perpetrators. However, I think that the direct executors have already been demilitarized, Russian intelligence officers in the field work well and Russian missiles hit right on the target.

Like I already said, these serial numbers doesn't prooves that missile belongs to Ukraine. Few examples. Here is Tochka U used by Ukraine in Snezhnoe in 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cV17MkoOsw. And here is video of Tochka U used by Russia in Syria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37ZmIfyePd4 If you pay attention to serial number, difference between these tow is just 25 digits and it's very likely that these missiles were made during Soviet times when Ukraine and Russia was one country.

The Ukrainian military has hit the Russian cruiser Moskva by Neptune missiles, causing serious damage to the warship.

BTW allegedly that's the infamous "Russian warship" from the early days of the war.

Edit: unconfirmed report of distress signal and eventual sinking. ~500 people on board ("completely evacuated" is likely bullshit too) and a massive blow to the Black Sea fleet and to Putin's ego.

Finally this Russian warship reached it's famous point of destination. It's big hit for pride of Russia. Just in 2020 it completed repair and maintenance, probably worth of millions. According to Forbes, worth of this warship is $750 millions!

[suchmoon]

Earlier they claimed that they had a fire that caused an ammo storage to explode and damage the ship, but whole crew was safely evacuated and all missiles were undamaged.
That Russian landing ship Orsk also had a fire a few weeks ago that caused it to sink. Probably an electrical malfunction, nothing to worry about comrades. Definitely not a missile strike!

Maybe some rogue welders caused it.

[af_newbie]

Earlier they claimed that they had a fire that caused an ammo storage to explode and damage the ship, but whole crew was safely evacuated and all missiles were undamaged.
That Russian landing ship Orsk also had a fire a few weeks ago that caused it to sink. Probably an electrical malfunction, nothing to worry about comrades. Definitely not a missile strike!

Maybe some rogue welders caused it.

Both Orsk and Moskva were modified to serve as Russian submarine units. The crews are currently undergoing in-depth training.

[suchmoon]

modified to serve as Russian submarine units

Modifications implemented while heroically stopping and detonating cowardly nazi missiles include new hull openings to the lower decks.

[Veleor]

Speaking of Bayraktar, a couple of weeks ago Kremlin claimed to have destroyed 35 of 36 that Ukraine allegedly had, which is such an obvious nonsense (Ukraine never had that many; and definitely had more than one remaining). Since then they claim to have destroyed a few more. Those negative remaining drones must be some sort of spacetime anomaly, which would explain the spontaneous combustion of the ill-fated warship

The fact that Ukraine had 36 Bayraktars TB2, as well as a new batch of these Turkish drones, was confirmed by Reuters and CNN.

Code:

Ukraine has bought more than 20 Bayraktar TB2 armed drones from Turkish company Baykar
in recent years and ordered a further 16 on January 27. That batch was delivered in early March.

https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraines-defence-imports-turkey-jumped-30-fold-q1-turkish-data-2022-04-06/

Code:

Ukraine was the first country to purchase the TB2s in 2019 and has ordered at least 36 drones so far.
Last month, its defense minister announced the arrival of a new shipment of the drones.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/11/middleeast/mideast-summary-04-11-2022-intl/index.html

The strategy of the 'defenders' did indeed seem to be to use multiple civilian buildings and keep the civilians hostage in them while doing so.  At least that's my analysis based on the footage I've seen and the pretty much universal testimony of the liberated civilians.

Source? Please, do not say it comes from any Russian Ministry pleaaaase...

Not really about the hostages, however at the end of March 2022, the Washington Post published critical statements by Western experts that Ukrainian troops were placing military equipment in residential areas.

Code:

[...] “I am very reluctant to suggest that Ukraine is responsible for civilian casualties,
because Ukraine is fighting to defend its country from an aggressor,”
said William Schabas, an international law professor at Middlesex University in London.
“But to the extent that Ukraine brings the battlefield to the civilian neighborhoods, it increases the danger to civilians.”

[...] “If there is military equipment there and [the Russians] are saying
we are launching at this military equipment, it undermines an assertion that
they are attacking intentionally civilian objects and civilians,” said Richard Weir,
a researcher in Human Rights Watch’s crisis and conflict division, who is working in Ukraine.

[...] The Ukrainian military has “a responsibility under international law”
to remove their forces and equipment from civilian-populated areas,
and if that is not possible, to move civilians out of those areas, Weir said.
“If they don’t do that, that is a violation of the laws of war,” he added.
“Because what they are doing is they are putting civilians at risk.
Because all that military equipment are legitimate targets.” [...]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-kyiv-russia-civilians/

Your video on the second link shows an alleged missile attack on a high-rise building in Kyiv and its consequences. It was the success of the Ukrainian missile defense at the very beginning of the operation, a Russian missile aimed at a military facility was shot down and its fragments fell into a residential building. If a Russian rocket hit the house, the house would not have a hole in the side, but a large pile of rubble.

You can see the missile explode. It wasn't a dud, the explosion takes out 4 floors, which on the average is 12 m in diameter. 12m explosion inside a building made of concrete and steel, not bricks. Who are you trying to fool with "fragments falling on the building". By fragments you must mean a warhead that explodes on impact.

For objectivity it's better to study the answers of officials, and not forum members.
The Russian side commented on this strike. I think that independent professional military experts will be able to confirm or refute this information.

Code:

According to a source in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation,
the nature of the damage suggests that he was hit by an anti-aircraft missile,
which is clearly visible on the video.
According to a source reported by TASS, it is obvious that the incident occurred during
the reflection of a night rocket attack on Ukrainian military facilities.
During the launch, there was a failure in the missile guidance system of the Ukrainian Buk-M1
medium-range anti-aircraft missile system, after which the missile hit the corner of a residential building.

https://rg.ru/2022/02/26/v-zhiloj-dom-v-kieve-popala-raketa-vypushchennaia-ukrainskimi-voennymi.html

[suchmoon]

The fact that Ukraine had 36 Bayraktars TB2, as well as a new batch of these Turkish drones, was confirmed by Reuters and CNN.

Oryx reports 34 (18+16) but let's not split hairs and assume they did have 36.

How come Russia claims to have destroyed 40+ by now? And they're still flying.

[be.open]

The fact that Ukraine had 36 Bayraktars TB2, as well as a new batch of these Turkish drones, was confirmed by Reuters and CNN.

Oryx reports 34 (18+16) but let's not split hairs and assume they did have 36.

How come Russia claims to have destroyed 40+ by now? And they're still flying.

Perhaps because mini-Bayraktars, not only TB2, also got into the statistics.

[suchmoon]

The fact that Ukraine had 36 Bayraktars TB2, as well as a new batch of these Turkish drones, was confirmed by Reuters and CNN.

Oryx reports 34 (18+16) but let's not split hairs and assume they did have 36.

How come Russia claims to have destroyed 40+ by now? And they're still flying.

Perhaps because mini-Bayraktars, not only TB2, also got into the statistics.

No, they clearly stated TB2:

B тeчeниe дня, дoлoжил гeнepaл-мaйop, poccийcкиe вoeнныe yничтoжили eщe 65 yкpaинcкиx вoeнныx oбъeктoв, a тaкжe cбили тpи бecпилoтникa, в тoм чиcлe Bayraktar TB2 тypeцкoгo пpoизвoдcтвa.

This was well after the "35" had been "destroyed", and there are few more announcements like that.

[Doan9269]

 I heard about this pathetic news on how Russian soldiers are sleeping with the women and raping young children in Ukraine and its environs where the Russian soldiers have occupied before now https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/4/12/un-calls-for-independent-investigation-into-rape-in-ukraine despite the continuing war and loss of lives and properties, the Russian soldiers went ahead in sexual scandal on innocent citizens while before time, residents in kyiv have warned that Russia is planning another striking attack around eastern Ukraine. Although the United Nations have set a committee to see to investigating on the rape assault. This is totally demoralizing.

[be.open]

The fact that Ukraine had 36 Bayraktars TB2, as well as a new batch of these Turkish drones, was confirmed by Reuters and CNN.

Oryx reports 34 (18+16) but let's not split hairs and assume they did have 36.

How come Russia claims to have destroyed 40+ by now? And they're still flying.

Perhaps because mini-Bayraktars, not only TB2, also got into the statistics.

No, they clearly stated TB2:

B тeчeниe дня, дoлoжил гeнepaл-мaйop, poccийcкиe вoeнныe yничтoжили eщe 65 yкpaинcкиx вoeнныx oбъeктoв, a тaкжe cбили тpи бecпилoтникa, в тoм чиcлe Bayraktar TB2 тypeцкoгo пpoизвoдcтвa.

This was well after the "35" had been "destroyed", and there are few more announcements like that.

There are statements on the net that Ukraine previously purchased not 18, but 50 Bairaktars TV2, but I am not sure about the reliability of the data source. Also, the head of Zelensky’s office, Andriy Yermak, in his interview on December 24, 2021, stated that Ukraine had established independent production of Bayraktarov. However, I am also not sure about the reliability of this data source.

[suchmoon]

There are statements on the net that Ukraine previously purchased not 18, but 50 Bairaktars TV2, but I am not sure about the reliability of the data source. Also, the head of Zelensky’s office, Andriy Yermak, in his interview on December 24, 2021, stated that Ukraine had established independent production of Bayraktarov. However, I am also not sure about the reliability of this data source.

Or Russian propaganda is lying and they haven't really destroyed that many - if any - TB2s, as evidenced by Russian forces constantly being embarrassed by said drones.

Speaking of which, I take it you haven't got the talking points on cruiser's sinking yet? Fire and detonation? Entire crew evacuated? Totally not Ukrainian missiles? Instead Ukrainians randomly attacked some barns in Kursk oblast? Anything?

[Toughit]

Speaking of which, I take it you haven't got the talking points on cruiser's sinking yet? Fire and detonation? Entire crew evacuated? Totally not Ukrainian missiles? Instead Ukrainians randomly attacked some barns in Kursk oblast? Anything?

That has to be a difficult one for the ministry of propaganda to spin:

1) Total Russia Navy incompetence  - setting fire to your own ship.  

2) Admitting that Ukraine got through the defenses, again, incompetence

Or other spin scenarios:

3) Seal team 3 swam under the ship and attached explosives, timed to the Neptune's detonations

4)  The ship is in a secret base

5) It was not really a ship, just testing our new 3d hologram

[paxmao]

Two missiles sent. The best evidence that it was an Ukrainian attack are the reports of the rest of the ships moving further away from Ukraine, as reported by US and verifiable by OS Int. That is a fuc**ng ton of money.

Remember those yachts being seized around the world... a couple of those is worth roughly as much as that missile cruiser. Isn't it amazing how during Putins reign "individuals" were able to amass such wealth but the state can't build any new warships of that size and is using 40-years old Soviet ships with defense systems that can be defeated by a Turkish drone.

Speaking of Bayraktar, a couple of weeks ago Kremlin claimed to have destroyed 35 of 36 that Ukraine allegedly had, which is such an obvious nonsense (Ukraine never had that many; and definitely had more than one remaining). Since then they claim to have destroyed a few more. Those negative remaining drones must be some sort of spacetime anomaly, which would explain the spontaneous combustion of the ill-fated warship

Watch! Evidence of Putin having a hidden physics laws singularity generator coming from official sources (probably from the "Ministry of Dark Humor and Fantasylands") that allows them to destroy more weapons than Ukraine really had. How do you dare to doubt!

...
As far as I remember Sergei Pugachev, a former friend of Putin, said that the reason for the state of the army is the reason why they have all this wealth. Putin and "his people" sell everything the Soviet army had to offer and use the money for their own benefit. They even stripped electronics and sold it for scrap....

At this point, I would need proof that any of Putin's tanks actually carried electronics in the first place.

...

And what about Kramatorsk? I see everything quickly calmed down there after the serial number surfaced. Provocation failed? But there 50 people died from a missile strike with cluster munitions on their own civilians. An ugly story, it would be nice to deal with it and punish the perpetrators. However, I think that the direct executors have already been demilitarized, Russian intelligence officers in the field work well and Russian missiles hit right on the target.

Like I already said, these serial numbers doesn't prooves that missile belongs to Ukraine. Few examples. Here is Tochka U used by Ukraine in Snezhnoe in 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cV17MkoOsw. And here is video of Tochka U used by Russia in Syria https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37ZmIfyePd4 If you pay attention to serial number, difference between these tow is just 25 digits and it's very likely that these missiles were made during Soviet times when Ukraine and Russia was one country.
...

The serial number only proves that someone painted numbers on that weapon at some point in time. As for the rest, if Putin had any real proof, satellite recording, or any real evidence it would already be there.

...

The strategy of the 'defenders' did indeed seem to be to use multiple civilian buildings and keep the civilians hostage in them while doing so.  At least that's my analysis based on the footage I've seen and the pretty much universal testimony of the liberated civilians.

Source? Please, do not say it comes from any Russian Ministry pleaaaase...

Not really about the hostages, however at the end of March 2022, the Washington Post published critical statements by Western experts that Ukrainian troops were placing military equipment in residential areas.

...

That is not your claim. You are saying that the Ukrainian army is helding civils hostage, which is something completely different.

...

For objectivity it's better to study the answers of officials, and not forum members.
The Russian side commented on this strike. I think that independent professional military experts will be able to confirm or refute this information.

According to a source in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation,
the nature of the damage suggests that he was hit by an anti-aircraft missile,
which is clearly visible on the video.
According to a source reported by TASS, it is obvious that the incident occurred during
the reflection of a night rocket attack on Ukrainian military facilities.
During the launch, there was a failure in the missile guidance system of the Ukrainian Buk-M1
medium-range anti-aircraft missile system, after which the missile hit the corner of a residential building.

https://rg.ru/2022/02/26/v-zhiloj-dom-v-kieve-popala-raketa-vypushchennaia-ukrainskimi-voennymi.html

So... military experts from the Russian side are objective about how Russian missiles hit or do not hit buildings occupied with Ukrainian civils. Forum members are to be ignored because they would not be objective and do not know enough. And all coming from Putin's "Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland tales".

Please, serve me that sh*t with some fries. Seriously, all the efforts to establish some short of doubts about the facts have no chance of working with anyone with a minimal sense of reality. How the f*ck would you believe a Russian Ministry source after they repeatedly said they were not going to invade Ukraine!

[Veleor]

Or Russian propaganda is lying and they haven't really destroyed that many - if any - TB2s, as evidenced by Russian forces constantly being embarrassed by said drones.

It is likely that Russia may exaggerate its achievements in terms of the number of destroyed Ukrainian military equipment. But it may also be that Ukraine received a fresh batch of Turkish TB2's.
As far as is known, on March 29, 2022, peace talks between Ukraine and Russia were held in Istanbul.
After them, one of the Ukrainian negotiators posted a photo with the CEO of Baykar, which produces these famous drones. Maybe there they agreed on new supplies. But of course this is just a guess.


https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-official-poses-with-bayraktar-ceo-calls-drones-super-weapons-2022-3

...

The strategy of the 'defenders' did indeed seem to be to use multiple civilian buildings and keep the civilians hostage in them while doing so.  At least that's my analysis based on the footage I've seen and the pretty much universal testimony of the liberated civilians.

Source? Please, do not say it comes from any Russian Ministry pleaaaase...

Not really about the hostages, however at the end of March 2022, the Washington Post published critical statements by Western experts that Ukrainian troops were placing military equipment in residential areas....

That is not your claim. You are saying that the Ukrainian army is helding civils hostage, which is something completely different.

Firstly, I didn't "claim" or "say" this. Read carefully the name of the author of the quote before labeling.

Secondly, not only Russian media reports, but also statements by Western military journalists become the basis for rumors about hostages.
For example, a video of the Italian journalist Giorgio Bianchi, who visited Mariupol in March, was published on the Internet.
In the video, he speaks in Italian, but the description contains English text. I think that those who understand Italian speech will be able to verify the authenticity of this quote.
If it's really his quote, but he's lying, then he should be punished for slander, and if he tells the truth, then his testimony should be included in the materials of a full-scale investigation. Isn't that how it should be?

Code:

"I stop people randomly and interview them.
They all tell me they were locked in the basement and couldn't get out.
They were told everything was under control.
Many say they shot at them to keep them from leaving.
They emptied the apartments to bring people down, when they themselves remained in the apartments to shoot.
These are neo-Nazi battalions".

https://youtu.be/qsqKtqJlz4o

So... military experts from the Russian side are objective about how Russian missiles hit or do not hit buildings occupied with Ukrainian civils. Forum members are to be ignored because they would not be objective and do not know enough. And all coming from Putin's "Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland tales".

You are again twisting the facts. I didn't claim that the Russian side necessarily tells the truth. I suggested looking for information in primary sources, and not through the prism of someone else's interpretations.