Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[tvbcof]

Let the denials games begin...

The city officials said the site in the village of Manhush could hold 3,000 to 9,000 bodies, possibly of Mariupol residents.

The City Council said the bodies may have been buried in layers, adding that the Russians dug trenches and filled them with corpses every day throughout April.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mariupol-mass-graves-identified-satellite-images-rcna25530




Expected denial punch lines from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Psychotic Massgraving Directorate:

- Just planting trees.
- These people died of pneumonia.
- They were Nazis (0 points for originality of this one).
- Ukrainian killed 1000's of their own people just to play the victim....
- They are being buried for their own good.

It's not all that complicated, and perfectly in-line with what a LOT of people have been saying for while:  The peeps were being used as human shields.  When they got desperate enough to leave the apartment complex basements to get water, they would be picked off since the 'defenders' were telling them in no uncertain terms to stay put.

The 'defenders' were doing what their sponsors and handlers told them, for whatever reasons, to do.  That would be the likes of Kolomoyskyi and the Western directors.  The reasons behind this strategy are not really all that clear to me yet.  Anyway, Mariupol is Russian-speaking which is prone to stir the ire of various of the Azov formations and apparently the ones who were assigned to 'defend' Mariupol.

Lancaster's vids where he walked around within snipe-ing distance of the steel mill within hours of it's above-ground 'defender' clearing and ran across tons of civilian bodies which were old enough to have had their faces eaten by crows confirm quite loudly the veracity of the countless newly liberated hostages.  As for digging the graves, I'd be surprised if 'the Russians' were doing it as much as the locals.  Their job of putting the Azov 'defenders' in the hole was enough.  I would expect that locals took some excavators out there, dug some holes, and got on with the business of cleaning up as it became safe to do so.

As a practical matter, seems to me that burying dead bodies is more along the lines of 'what you do' no matter how the body got to be dead.  The alternative is not very sensible for health reasons, and one would only leave bodies around if it were unsafe to retrieve and bury them.  It is certainly not some sort of 'smoking gun in the hands of the Russkies' or whatever.  I seriously doubt that there will be much interest in international investigations of 'genocide' or whatever in Mariupol just as the Western Democracies quickly lost interest before they started in the Bucha affair.

[paxmao]

Let the denials games begin...

The city officials said the site in the village of Manhush could hold 3,000 to 9,000 bodies, possibly of Mariupol residents.

The City Council said the bodies may have been buried in layers, adding that the Russians dug trenches and filled them with corpses every day throughout April.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/mariupol-mass-graves-identified-satellite-images-rcna25530




Expected denial punch lines from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Psychotic Massgraving Directorate:

- Just planting trees.
- These people died of pneumonia.
- They were Nazis (0 points for originality of this one).
- Ukrainian killed 1000's of their own people just to play the victim....
- They are being buried for their own good.

It's not all that complicated,....The peeps were being used as human shields.  .....

There you go... the Ukrainians killed them all because XYZ... except that is not true in this and Bucha and all the Kiev area. It must be that the Ukrainian army  has the ability to kill telepathically, that explains why 8 chief psychopaths generals of Putin's army and a a large number of officers have been slain. You are a psycho and your controllers in the Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland tales are the lamest at excuses - predictable and lame.

Expected denial punch lines from the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales - Psychotic Massgraving Directorate:

- Just planting trees.
- These people died of pneumonia.
- They were Nazis (0 points for originality of this one).
- Ukrainian killed 1000's of their own people just to play the victim....
- They are being buried for their own good.

- They cry when we leave them in the street.  They cry when we bury them.  All the West does is cry.

You see, the problem is not what you do with them after your murder them. I also know more about you and what you are if  you thought that was "the problem".

The West complains, and when the complains are not heard...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=%245%20million%20in%20humanitarian%20aid,people%20on%209%20April%202022.&text=President%20Klaus%20Iohannis%20approved%20military,equipment%20on%2028%20February%202022.

Australia
...
AU$30 million on 20 March 2022:[10]
AU$10 million to various non-government organisations
AU$10 million to the World Food Programme
AU$8 million to the United Nations Population Fund
AU$2 million to the Emergency Action Alliance Ukraine Appeal
At least 70,000 tons of thermal coal for Ukrainian power stations on 20 March 2022[10]

France
Leading arms exporter to Ukraine between 2014 and 2020 with over €1.6 billion worth of weapons provided[96]

Germany
€1.83 billion in bilateral aid since 2014[138][139]
approx. €4 billion via the EU in the form of grants and loans since 2014.[138]
€240 million via the EU in loans in 2022.[138]
Loan of over €150 million via KfW in April 2022.[140]
€425 million via the 'Stand Up For Ukraine' pledging campaign and an additional 70 million for medical aid via the EU[141]
Over €1 billion additional military aid to Ukraine for weapons purchases in April 2022[142]

Italy
€110 million on 27 February 2022

UK
23 February - pledged £3.5bn in UK export financing, underwrote $500m in MLDB borrowing and provided a £100m loan via the World Bank for economic development.[311]
23 March - UK donated $100m directly to the Ukrainian government budget to mitigate financial pressures created by Russia's unprovoked and illegal invasion.[312]
9 April - UK increased its World Bank loan guarantees to £730m ($1bn)

US

President Barack Obama approved military aid for Ukraine:
Trained Ukrainian troops since April 2015 as part of JMTG-U (Joint Multinational Training Group-Ukraine) [326]
$5 million of non-lethal military equipment on 4 June 2014.[327][328][329]
$75 million of non-lethal military equipment on 11 March 2015.[330][331][332]
President Donald Trump approved military aid for Ukraine:

$560 million on 12 May 2017 via the 2017 Consolidated Appropriations Act.[333]
$350 million on 12 December 2017 via the 2018 National Defense Authorization Act.[334]
Light weapons export license approved on 13 December 2017.[335]
$47 million of lethal weapons, including 210 Javelin anti-tank missiles, on 1 March 2018.[336]
$250 million of security aid, including $50 million in lethal weapons,[337] on 12 September 2019.[338][339][340]
$250 million of lethal military equipment on 11 June 2020.[341][342]
$600 million of security aid, including 16 Mark VI patrol boats, on 17 June 2020.[343][344]
President Joe Biden approved military aid for Ukraine:

90 tons[clarification needed] of lethal military equipment on 22 January 2021.[345][346]
$125 million of lethal military equipment on 1 March 2021.[347][348]
$150 million of lethal military equipment on 11 June 2021.[349][350]
$60 million of lethal military equipment on 1 September 2021.[351][352][353]
$350 million of lethal military equipment, on 25 February 2022.[354][355][356]
US Secretary of State Antony Blinken assured Ukraine's foreign minister Dmytro Kuleba of unspecified further military aid, on 1 March 2022.[357][358]
$200 million of arms and equipment, including Javelin anti-tank missiles and Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, on 12 March 2022.[359]
The White House said that before 16 March 2022, aid sent by the US included:[360]
600 Stinger systems
About 2,600 Javelin systems
Five Mil Mi-17 helicopters
Three patrol boats
Four counter-artillery and counter-unmanned aerial system tracking radars
Four counter-mortar radar systems
200 grenade launchers and ammunition
200 shotguns
200 machine guns
Nearly 40 million rounds of small arms ammunition
Over 1 million grenade, mortar and artillery rounds
70 Humvees and other vehicles
Unspecified amounts of secure communications, electronic warfare detection systems, body armor, helmets and other tactical gear, military medical equipment, explosive ordnance disposal and demining equipment
Satellite imagery and analysis capability.
$800 million in military equipment announced on 16 March 2022, funded from the $13.6 billion in aid signed on 15 March. The package includes:[361]
2,000 Javelin anti-tank weapons
1,000 light anti-armor weapons
6,000 AT4 anti-armor systems
800 Stinger anti-aircraft systems
100 Switchblade drones[362]
100 grenade launchers
5,000 rifles
1,000 pistols
400 machine guns
400 shotguns
Over 20 million rounds of small arms ammunition, grenade launcher rounds and mortar rounds
25,000 sets of body armor
25,000 helmets
Laser-Guided Rockets
$800 million of lethal military equipment, on 13 April 2022:[363][364]
18 M777 howitzers calibre 155 mm and 40,000 rounds of artillery ammunition
11 Mi-17 military helicopters[365]
200 armoured personnel carriers
'counter-artillery radars'.[366][367]
$800m military package was announced 21 April completing the drawdown from the $13.6bn military and humanitarian funding envelope approved by Congress March 15[368]
72 M777 155 mm towed howitzer with 144,000 rounds of ammunition[369]
72 artillery towing vehicles
121 Phoenix Ghost tactical drones, a reduced capability version of the Switchblade quickly designed for export to Ukraine.[370]

....

And many more.

[suchmoon]

It's not all that complicated, and perfectly in-line with what a LOT of people have been saying for while:  The peeps were being used as human shields.  When they got desperate enough to leave the apartment complex basements to get water, they would be picked off since the 'defenders' were telling them in no uncertain terms to stay put.

There were ~3500 defenders in Mariupol at the time it was surrounded. Even if they wanted to, there was no way they could have occupied every apartment building and used them as "human shields". Russians simply bombed the shit out of it and couldn't care less if there are civilians or military or anybody at all in those buildings. And knowing that, there wouldn't have been much sense for Ukrainians to waste time with "human shields" because they knew Russians would bomb indiscriminately anyway.

"a LOT of" Kremlin bots saying things doesn't mean shit.

[TwitchySeal]

It's not all that complicated, and perfectly in-line with what a LOT of people have been saying for while:  The peeps were being used as human shields.  When they got desperate enough to leave the apartment complex basements to get water, they would be picked off since the 'defenders' were telling them in no uncertain terms to stay put.

There were ~3500 defenders in Mariupol at the time it was surrounded. Even if they wanted to, there was no way they could have occupied every apartment building and used them as "human shields". Russians simply bombed the shit out of it and couldn't care less if there are civilians or military or anybody at all in those buildings. And knowing that, there wouldn't have been much sense for Ukrainians to waste time with "human shields" because they knew Russians would bomb indiscriminately anyway.

"a LOT of" Kremlin bots saying things doesn't mean shit.

Maybe the Russians just have really really really bad aim. 

[tvbcof]

What seems to have happened in Bucha is that Ukrainian SS teams quickly filled the vacuum when the Russians left and assassinated the 'collaborators'.  Rules of war compelled the Russians to provide for the minimal needs of occupied civilians (food, water, etc.)  This they were doing.  Unfortunately anyone who availed of or assisted with distribution was considered a 'collaborator' by the more extreme elements of the Ukrainian political structures and these people were summarily executed.  Then they tried to use the aftermath as a false-flag.

What seems to have happened in Mariupol is that Azov were using the local housing as firing points (which I don't have a problem with absent other options), but they were using the local population as human shields and they were doing what they needed to do to keep them in captivity.  That translated to open season on targets from their firing points.  This is why the civilian bodies in the streets seem to have died well before there was close combat fighting with the Russian urban combat specialists in a given area.

---

The hypothesis forming up in my mind is that (Ukrainian/Jewish oligarch who owns Azov) Kolomoyski, and even the neocons and CIA who manage Azov, are basically on Russia's side and are playing a long-game involving Russia effectively controlling the new state/territory to be formed in Eastern and Southern Ukraine.  There will be a 'rump' left in Western Ukraine consisting of what is left of the Azov-aligned forces and ideologically aligned people, and it might even be 'given back' to Poland at that time.  The hatred for these Nazi-esque people among any populations 'defended' by them in the 2022 war will be extreme and long-lasting which is effectively the same thing as inducing the peeps to shift their support to the Russian-aligned factions.

Honestly, it looks to me as though the same dynamics of 'totalitarian rule enforced by street thugs' was the norm in the Donbass areas as well, but with substitution of Stalin for Hilter as a 'historical father figure'.  Ironically, while the native populations of Germany, Russia, China, etc, distanced themselves from own legacy baggage (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) fairly quickly when it became practical to do so, certain pockets of the more distant areas did not and continue to lionize them.  I say this as a person living currently where there is a low-grade communist insurgency which is classified by some as 'Maoist'.  I must say, though, that it would surprise me if almost any of the bullet-stoppers filling their ranks had the slightest interest or understanding of history, politics, etc beyond some minimal level of well-honed propaganda.  Same could be said of their counterparts on the government side too of course.

[TwitchySeal]

What seems to have happened in Bucha is that Ukrainian SS teams quickly filled the vacuum when the Russians left and assassinated the 'collaborators'.

There's satellite footage of bodies in the street while the Russians were occupying the city.

There's drone footage of Russians open firing on civilians.

There have been dozens of interviews from survivors. 

Reports from dozens of Independent journalists from all over the world directly conflict what you believe "seems to have happened".

Your theory would require a massive conspiracy to cover up how all those people were killed.

[BADecker]

What seems to have happened in Bucha is that Ukrainian SS teams quickly filled the vacuum when the Russians left and assassinated the 'collaborators'.

There's satellite footage of bodies in the street while the Russians were occupying the city.

There's drone footage of Russians open firing on civilians.

There have been dozens of interviews from survivors. 

Reports from dozens of Independent journalists from all over the world directly conflict what you believe "seems to have happened".

Your theory would require a massive conspiracy to cover up how all those people were killed.

Massive conspiracy, like the one that placed
Biden in office when Trump really won.

[Ultegra134]

What seems to have happened in Bucha is that Ukrainian SS teams quickly filled the vacuum when the Russians left and assassinated the 'collaborators'.

There's satellite footage of bodies in the street while the Russians were occupying the city.

There's drone footage of Russians open firing on civilians.

There have been dozens of interviews from survivors. 

Reports from dozens of Independent journalists from all over the world directly conflict what you believe "seems to have happened".

Your theory would require a massive conspiracy to cover up how all those people were killed.

There's no use explaining why such a conspiracy theory is impossible to stage, it's the same people who claimed that Covid-19 deaths were faked during the first wave of the pandemic.

It's exactly 2 months since the Russian invasion started, with massive casualties, cities destroyed, soldiers and innocent civilians killed. It's astonishing that there are people who doubt other people's misfortune, claiming stupid conspiracy theories, scene staging and faking deaths. Certainly, there's propaganda out there, but claiming something like that is outrageous.

Have you seen the bombed cities, Mariupol for instance. Do you really believe that people haven't died? We're talking about innocent civilian lives right here, but there you are again, the same conspiracy theorists from Covid-19 threads.

[paxmao]

What seems to have happened in Bucha is that Ukrainian SS teams quickly filled the vacuum when the Russians left and assassinated the 'collaborators'.

There's satellite footage of bodies in the street while the Russians were occupying the city.

There's drone footage of Russians open firing on civilians.

There have been dozens of interviews from survivors.  

Reports from dozens of Independent journalists from all over the world directly conflict what you believe "seems to have happened".

Your theory would require a massive conspiracy to cover up how all those people were killed.

There's no use explaining why such a conspiracy theory is impossible to stage, it's the same people who claimed that Covid-19 deaths were faked during the first wave of the pandemic.

It's exactly 2 months since the Russian invasion started, with massive casualties, cities destroyed, soldiers and innocent civilians killed. It's astonishing that there are people who doubt other people's misfortune, claiming stupid conspiracy theories, scene staging and faking deaths. Certainly, there's propaganda out there, but claiming something like that is outrageous.

Have you seen the bombed cities, Mariupol for instance. Do you really believe that people haven't died? We're talking about innocent civilian lives right here, but there you are again, the same conspiracy theorists from Covid-19 threads.

These are psycho-bots, the algorithm is:

- We did not do it, it was the Ukrainians to themselves. Else
- We did do it, because Ukrainian are holding their own civilians hostage. Else
- We did do it, but all of them were Nazis occupying a nursery, a school, a theatre, hospital, a civic centre. And

It is all photoshop.
That mass grave or bodies lying around have nothing to do with us. Else
We are just planting trees. Else
They were Nazis. Else

AND we are right, because people in twitter say so, the Russian Ministry of Dark Humour and Fantasyland Tales says so, the outlet "putinislovelyforever.com" says so and even the Washington Post - if your read it correctly, like we do - supports our version.

The fundamental element here is to dehumanize the dead, so it is justified to kill. Example, this is Lyudmila Pavlichenko. She killed 300 German soldiers, mostly one by one, with a shot, not with anonymous bombing, a personalised one on one death. When asked how many men she had killed, her answer is "I did not kill any man, I killed fascists".

Anyone that is not a psychopath needs to believe that they are not really assassins, yet...

[PrimeNumber7]

"No one knows with certainty how many people have been killed and wounded in Iraq since the 2003 United States invasion. However, we know that between 184,382 and 207,156 civilians have died from direct war related violence caused by the U.S.,
 its allies, the Iraqi military and police, and opposition forces from the time of the invasion through October 2019. The violent deaths of Iraqi civilians have occurred through aerial bombing, shelling, gunshots, suicide attacks, and fires started by bombing.

Are you saying that the US has carried out suicide attacks against Iraqui civilians? Obviously, this is not something that has happened.

The number you are citing includes deaths caused by the opposition, aka the side the US was fighting.

It's been 2 months since the Russian invasion, despite Ukraine's resistance, war maps show that Putin is actually gaining ground, especially after the fall of Mariupol, and the military advances in the Donbas region, while they are extremely close to Kharkiv. On top of that, Odesa is certainly their next target, since its prime location, which would block Ukraine's access to the sea.

Certainly, Putin didn't win the war within a few days, just like he expected, however, things have taken a turn for the worse, mourning thousands of casualties.

Both sides are likely seeing losses greater than what they would like. Regardless of how the war ends, based on how much of Russia's military was committed to Ukraine, after everything is said and done, Russia will be much more vulnerable to attack because the world will see that it's military is a joke.

[tvbcof]

Ah Oh:  PUTIN Extreme Panic Ukraine kills 50 top Russian FIFTY officers and destroys enemy command

These totally true facts prove that the end is near for the last of the Rooshins who couldn't find their way back across the border in the stream of continuous routs since the special military action began.

Can I be friends with all of you gaggle dead-ender Q-tards now, or do I have to report "Putin passes out drunk; wakes up...IN GITMO!" to achieve some credibility?

---

Circling back to the 'mass graves' in Mariupol area, now an on-the-scene report from the area showing basically exactly what I would have expected in the circumstances as I understand them:

  Ukrainian newest false flag of "mass graves" promoted by the Guardian
  https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZSLvHQD3C5TQ/

[hornetsnest]

[paxmao]

yep, another whattabout. Since it happened here, there and somewhere, it is ok to have it in Ukraine.

[TwitchySeal]

yep, another whattabout. Since it happened here, there and somewhere, it is ok to have it in Ukraine.

And if somehow America invading those countries makes it ok for Russia to invade Ukraine today, then why wasn't it ok for America to invade those countries because of all the invasions carried out by the Soviet Union?

[suchmoon]

Another spontaneous combustion, maybe even two:

The Main Directorate of the Ministry of Emergency Situations of Russia for the Bryansk region reported a fire on the territory of an oil depot in the Fokinsky district of Bryansk.

In Russia, in Bryansk, from the night of Sunday to Monday, April 25, explosions thundered. After that, a fire broke out at the local oil depot, as well as on the territory of the military unit.

Unlike the alleged helicopter attack in Belgorod a few weeks ago, this is much deeper in Russian territory (~15 miles vs ~70 miles).

[cabron]

We couldn't really say how much are dead on Ukraine's side. Only the Russians has the time to count their dead mean since they have this war in control. Ukrainian dead were even left on the roadside to rot. And the infrastructures that are destroyed are in Ukraine. If they want their country to be still like remains as is which they can pick up the pieces and resume back to where they are before the war, they could just go on with the peacetalks. Putin still offer the peacetalks afaik.

If Zelensky has care for the country he should be accepting the peace talk that Putin is offering. Its been two months, no one is going to go to Ukraine for war. Regret always happen after things are over but they can stop it while its yet not too late. They may even given opportunities after. Heck Russia has more gas and oil to offer to Ukraine if they make business instead. They may even help rebuild the country.

[TwitchySeal]

We couldn't really say how much are dead on Ukraine's side. Only the Russians has the time to count their dead mean since they have this war in control. Ukrainian dead were even left on the roadside to rot. And the infrastructures that are destroyed are in Ukraine. If they want their country to be still like remains as is which they can pick up the pieces and resume back to where they are before the war, they could just go on with the peacetalks. Putin still offer the peacetalks afaik.

If Zelensky has care for the country he should be accepting the peace talk that Putin is offering. Its been two months, no one is going to go to Ukraine for war. Regret always happen after things are over but they can stop it while its yet not too late. They may even given opportunities after. Heck Russia has more gas and oil to offer to Ukraine if they make business instead. They may even help rebuild the country.

I thought you were joking, but maybe not...

[cabron]

We couldn't really say how much are dead on Ukraine's side. Only the Russians has the time to count their dead mean since they have this war in control. Ukrainian dead were even left on the roadside to rot. And the infrastructures that are destroyed are in Ukraine. If they want their country to be still like remains as is which they can pick up the pieces and resume back to where they are before the war, they could just go on with the peacetalks. Putin still offer the peacetalks afaik.

If Zelensky has care for the country he should be accepting the peace talk that Putin is offering. Its been two months, no one is going to go to Ukraine for war. Regret always happen after things are over but they can stop it while its yet not too late. They may even given opportunities after. Heck Russia has more gas and oil to offer to Ukraine if they make business instead. They may even help rebuild the country.

I thought you were joking, but maybe not...

Maybe I could be joking. Its not a very good time to joke. But its also not a good time for war because of the covid and recession.

Zelensky is confuse of which is his priorities. If he wants to continue to play hero for the NATO, he can go on with the war. But if he wants to be a hero for the Ukrainians, lets top the war and lets provide a better place of the Ukrainians and not completely drive them away form their own country.  Stop watching people dying out of hunger.

[TwitchySeal]

Zelensky is confuse of which is his priorities. If he wants to continue to play hero for the NATO, he can go on with the war. But if he wants to be a hero for the Ukrainians, lets top the war and lets provide a better place of the Ukrainians and not completely drive them away form their own country.  Stop watching people dying out of hunger.

I think you're confused.   Working to qualify for and join NATO has been part of Ukraines constitution for almost a decade, years before Zelensky was elected..  And because of Putin, other countries who previously showed little interest appear to be changing their minds.

Don't you think Ukraine should be able to decide which alliance they join?

[cabron]

Zelensky is confuse of which is his priorities. If he wants to continue to play hero for the NATO, he can go on with the war. But if he wants to be a hero for the Ukrainians, lets top the war and lets provide a better place of the Ukrainians and not completely drive them away form their own country.  Stop watching people dying out of hunger.

I think you're confused.   Working to qualify for and join NATO has been part of Ukraines constitution for almost a decade, years before Zelensky was elected..  And because of Putin, other countries who previously showed little interest appear to be changing their minds.

Don't you think Ukraine should be able to decide which alliance they join?

Who did they join before NATO?
If there were no military conflict during that time, they should stick to it to avoid war since they are no position to win. There were disputes between the two countries but it didn't end in war.