Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[tvbcof]

...

Unlike Ritter..

It's amazing how deep and insightful Ritter's vision of this situation is. Although in my opinion he could handle his emotions better and be less orthodox in his judgments and conclusions, yet we do not live in a black and white world. However, for a full-time pro-Russian propagandist, this is, if not excusable, then quite understandable. However, this does not change the first sentence in this paragraph, Ritter understands Russians almost like Russian. It is a pity that the American system seems to be built in such a way that in it the "former" are rapidly becoming smarter, while the "acting" do not make such an impression. Like you have to retire to be wiser, or maybe retiring just gives you more room to say what you really think, rather than what your job description prescribes.

Drifting farther afield just because Ritter is kind of a poster-child for the phenomena, but...

...There seems to be some sort of a weird thing going on with having 'done time' (literally) and being 'released' from some sort of an understanding of silence and free to speak one's mind (but still not give away certain secrets.)  Examples include military officer Ritter, the lobbyist Abramoff, scientist Mikovits,  CIA dude Kiriakou, and some others I cannot think of off the top of my head.

My opinion is that the independent direct intervention of Poland without the general support of NATO in this conflict is almost inevitable, the question is when and how. The position of Romania is also interesting, which itself has a territorial interest in Ukraine and may support Poland in this endeavor. I think the issue will be cleared up pretty soon, it seems that the fortified positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass are already leaking, and then a large operational space opens up for Russia right up to Lviv.

Yeah, I just don't see any reason why the Russians would want it, especially since the peeps in that are are likely to be much less friendly (even in the post Zenensky period.)  I don't really fully buy the argument of 'de-nazification' which strikes me as mostly a PR-friendly excuse.  The benefits of chasing the Nazis into the West is probably not worth the hassles, costs, and risks, and they would just back-fill when the area is vacated anyway.

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[paxmao]

.... Israel in the current situation can do little to help Russia, and little can interfere with it - it has enough of its own problems with Palestine.

That's cute. Israel does not only mean Israel, but the resources of Jews across the globe that are backing it - certainly influential.

I understand what you are talking about. When you challenge the current world order, you need to carefully choose your friends and even more carefully your enemies. Judging by the instant backlash from Switzerland after the start of the operation, Putin has pinched the tails of some very powerful Jews, and that's okay. Worse, when these Jews quickly coped with their emotions and began to habitually play neutrality in front of the public. Well, now they have been bombed again after Lavrov's trolling, let them decide whether they are pro or contra. Just don't pretend to be innocent virgins if your country has been living in a state of permanent armed conflict with the Gaza Strip for decades.

Here is a video in which Israeli mercenaries in Hebrew thank the government and people of Israel for their help in the fight against Russians in Ukraine, they also personally thank the rabbi of Kyiv, etc.

...
What for? Isn't Ukraine already confident of its victory with such strong military support from the West? Just burn all the Russian tanks with javelins and wait for the Russians to finally run out of those damn missiles.

Mmm, sounds like a plan... but no. Russia will not run out of tanks - it may eventually run out of young people willing to go into them or able to use them or maybe of ships if they keep sinking "by themselves". The USSR did not break because it ran out of tanks, nor nuclear weapons, nor people - however...

The West has more than enough resources to stall the war and take back, likely, much of the territory occupied. Ukraine has the manpower and the will to be free of Putin. The US strategy is not to win the war, and US does not want to depose Putin - that is far too risky due to the nuclear arsenal -  but to render Russia unable to try this again. That is not going to be achieved by weapons alone, that's sure.

You know who should be ending this war? Europe, Ukraine and Russia. All the loosers.

Ukraine can immediately end this armed conflict at any time by signing an act of unconditional surrender. And she will have enough territories and human resources for a long happy life.

Unlike Ritter..

It's amazing how deep and insightful Ritter's vision of this situation is. Although in my opinion he could handle his emotions better and be less orthodox in his judgments and conclusions, yet we do not live in a black and white world. However, for a full-time pro-Russian propagandist, this is, if not excusable, then quite understandable. However, this does not change the first sentence in this paragraph, Ritter understands Russians almost like Russian. It is a pity that the American system seems to be built in such a way that in it the "former" are rapidly becoming smarter, while the "acting" do not make such an impression. Like you have to retire to be wiser, or maybe retiring just gives you more room to say what you really think, rather than what your job description prescribes.

My opinion is that the independent direct intervention of Poland without the general support of NATO in this conflict is almost inevitable, the question is when and how. The position of Romania is also interesting, which itself has a territorial interest in Ukraine and may support Poland in this endeavor. I think the issue will be cleared up pretty soon, it seems that the fortified positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Donbass are already leaking, and then a large operational space opens up for Russia right up to Lviv.

You still do not see it. Putin has been brought into a war that is a trap.

Even in the best possible outcome, as war is happening now, Russia is still a looser. The army has demonstrated that is unable to wage modern warfare, even having in front an army that had less resources. He has suffered a number of diplomacy backslashes that are not easy to overcome. He has made Europe consider raising the military spending (seriously, Europe raising military spending... unheard of) to the delight of the US. Who could ever have thought that Germany and Europe would ever consider decoupling from Russian oil and start the process of finding alternative sourcing for gas? What a victory for Putin!

I really hope your guys are not betting your bitcoin on anything like a surrender. US cannot be happier than seeing Putin bleed himself and send the your Russian soldiers to serve as test dummies for their latest toys, the sea crews to test their naval missile and combined arms tactics, Russian pilots to test the Starstreaks, tanks to test the Javelins... Meanwhile, the money that should be flowing to make Russia a better a place and the people who should be making Russia a more populated nation are being sent to die on a war that cannot be "won".

BTW, you do not seem to understand the concept of "unconditional", you may have read that in the official media I guess. Unconditional means "no conditions" - e.g. you do not get to keep any territory, nor army, nor government. It is all at the will of the victor - e.g. Japan after WW II so that you get the picture. I do not think you honestly believe that is going to happen.

Ok, so for now you do not like Jews (Hebrews should I say not to offend anyone?), you do not like the people who killed them either, you do not like Europe ("gayrope"?), the US... Sounds like the picture of a Russian supremacist (basically a Nazi). And you wonder why Ukraine did not want to play with you guys. Anyway, Putin is not challenging the world order, he is trying to be that order. Must be that all the countries (including Turkey!!) are ruled by the Israelis.

My questions is.. do you also feel superior to all Semitic races and cultures?

They are certainly influential in the US and in financial circles - that is where the other war, the one that is not about the "missile" but on how are you going to build that missile without microchips and how do you intend to pay for it, is happening and is going to get much worse. No need to kill all tanks, no need to have Ghost aviation ACEs - yet their are welcome.

I can see also some comments on Wikipedia not being a source. It is a good starting point, but you need to do the hard work: go to the references and see if you can form your opinion or question the article. But nah... much better to use a carpet-cancelling comment and get the sceptic-is-smarter free bonus.

[decodx]

Of course I'm right. People are generally stupid, ignorant and poorly educated, you are no exception.

Yeah, that's how the Nazis think. It's good that your words reflect what you really mean. How about we throw all the stupid, ignorant, and poorly educated people into concentration camps? Would that make you happy?

[paxmao]

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Unlike Ritter, I think it's highly unlikely that Russia has any interest or incentive to put boots on the ground in the West part of Ukraine.  I suspect that by now, given the course of things, they will probably cement a land-bridge on the Black Sea in the South (which will consist of client states rather national integration.)  My guess is that if they just leave Kiev alone, Kiev will align with the Russia/China/BRICS/every-other-sensible-country block naturally since the all the West has to offer is sexual degeneracy and 'sustainable' anti-science economic suicide.  At least once the petro-dollar system completely collapses in a way that nobody can miss
...

Let's put together all your hypothesis, so that we can appreciate the deepness of your thought:

- The West cannot offer billions for reconstruction, a solid diplomacy and a representative system, but just "degeneracy". I see.
- The dollar is going to collapse inevitably - after 90 years of dominance - despite being actually the rouble being downgrade during last 20 yr.
- And the most interesting one: Ukraine is going to forget the murdering of its people and the destruction of their infrastructure and "naturally fall" for Russia and China.

Ok... if all of that happens then you will be right.

As the war is going now, that "land bridge", AKA occupied territory belonging to Ukraine, is certainly anything but something that Putin has any certainty of holding. This war has just started, now is when the long term economic effects, sanctions and support kicks in.

Putin would do much better in finding a way to retreat and negotiate something sensible - not daydreaming crap.

[TwitchySeal]

My guess is that if they just leave Kiev alone, Kiev will align with the Russia/China/BRICS/every-other-sensible-country block naturally since the all the West has to offer is sexual degeneracy and 'sustainable' anti-science economic suicide.  At least once the petro-dollar system completely collapses in a way that nobody can miss.

You say a lot of dumb things.  A lot.  But thinking that if Russia just 'leaves Kiev alone' then they will just naturally align with Russia is just...incredible. 

[suchmoon]

Lavrov is a very experienced diplomat, he is unlikely to have made a mistake. I think the Kremlin quite deliberately sacrificed a false friendship with Israel for the sake of strengthening real friendship with the Arab world in the Middle East. Israel in the current situation can do little to help Russia, and little can interfere with it - it has enough of its own problems with Palestine.

Oopsie:

Russian President Vladimir Putin apologized for the words of Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov.

"very experienced diplomat"

[DaRude]

People are made to think that deescalation in Ukraine is now literally in no ones best interest.

May be not in your or Putin's best interest, but if you had bothered to read what I said... remove the tanks -> deescalation. Tanks invaded Ukraine, Javelins did not invade Russia.

Bravo, right so Russia removing all tanks is the only acceptable "deescalation", must've been really tough to propose such radical thought? Thanks for making my point, currently escalation is in everyone's best interest, so the war must go on.

“In a dialogue with the United States and its allies, we will insist on working out specific agreements that would exclude any further NATO moves eastward and the deployment of weapons systems that threaten us in close vicinity to Russian territory,” Putin said.
He charged that “the threats are mounting on our western border,” with NATO placing its military infrastructure closer to Russia and offered the West to engage in substantive talks on the issue, adding that Moscow would need not just verbal assurances, but “legal guarantees.”
“We aren't demanding any special conditions for ourselves and realize that any agreements must take interests of Russia and all Euro-Atlantic countries into account,” Putin said. “A calm and stable situation must be ensured for all and is needed for all without exclusion.”
Putin's statement came a day after he sternly warned NATO against deploying its troops and weapons to Ukraine, saying it represented a red line for Russia and would trigger a strong response.

Medieval thinking 100%.

Again, Putin telling the people of other countries what they can and cannot do in the name of his safety. Again, Putin telling all countries that they cannot join NATO because he says so. This is Putin considering himself ruler of the old USSR and the one who can tell Europe what can and cannot do. It is no longer the case and, after this war, he will be lucky if other "territories" do not start revolting in view of the inefficacy of its army.

US pretty much said that Russia is not allowed to have national security interests

On the contrary, Russia has security interests, Ukraine has security interests (even more now), Finland has security interests, Sweden, Lithuania, Letonia,... all have security interests... the question is why Putin's interest are better than anyone else's. Is it because he's got a better army / more power? Now that argument seems to have a few leaks.

...

And we're back to hypocrisy and double standards. Due to their proximity, US can have national security interests in Cuba, totally normal for NATO and Australia to have national interests in Solomon Islands etc... But why should Russia have national interests that spans to the country directly on it's border that speaks the same language and was part of the same country?? Then we go into, all countries are equal but some are more equal than others, and the ones that clear some imaginary level of democracy/freedom are allowed to absorb countries bordering other superpowers with beneficial offers, while others are not. Great policy, guaranteed to result in wars, so here we are.

Coming up next, everyone acts super surprised when China starts "special operations" in Taiwan after US decides to add Taiwan to it's "defense" pact. US will also be willing to supply Taiwan with any and all weapons till the last standing Taiwanese.

Any comment on why you believe the Pope is wrong as well, in seeing how such policies cannot possibly lead to peace?

Edit: wording

[be.open]

Yeah, I just don't see any reason why the Russians would want it, especially since the peeps in that are are likely to be much less friendly (even in the post Zenensky period.)  I don't really fully buy the argument of 'de-nazification' which strikes me as mostly a PR-friendly excuse.  The benefits of chasing the Nazis into the West is probably not worth the hassles, costs, and risks, and they would just back-fill when the area is vacated anyway.

I think we will soon see how events will develop in the West of Ukraine, because until the complete liberation of Donbass this is not a paramount issue and there are many interested parties, including Poland, Romania, Hungary and even Moldova. I'm not even sure that the West of Ukraine is now subordinate to Kyiv.

You still do not see it. Putin has been brought into a war that is a trap.

Do you now mean that Russia has become a victim of external manipulation and is not to blame for the invasion of Ukraine? This is something new from you.

Even in the best possible outcome, as war is happening now, Russia is still a looser. The army has demonstrated that is unable to wage modern warfare, even having in front an army that had less resources. He has suffered a number of diplomacy backslashes that are not easy to overcome. He has made Europe consider raising the military spending (seriously, Europe raising military spending... unheard of) to the delight of the US. Who could ever have thought that Germany and Europe would ever consider decoupling from Russian oil and start the process of finding alternative sourcing for gas? What a victory for Putin!

I really hope your guys are not betting your bitcoin on anything like a surrender. US cannot be happier than seeing Putin bleed himself and send the your Russian soldiers to serve as test dummies for their latest toys, the sea crews to test their naval missile and combined arms tactics, Russian pilots to test the Starstreaks, tanks to test the Javelins... Meanwhile, the money that should be flowing to make Russia a better a place and the people who should be making Russia a more populated nation are being sent to die on a war that cannot be "won".

I'm not sure I understand the red thread of these two paragraphs correctly. Do you accuse the United States of unleashing an armed conflict in Ukraine in order to weaken Russia and Europe, or what?

BTW, you do not seem to understand the concept of "unconditional", you may have read that in the official media I guess. Unconditional means "no conditions" - e.g. you do not get to keep any territory, nor army, nor government. It is all at the will of the victor - e.g. Japan after WW II so that you get the picture. I do not think you honestly believe that is going to happen.

I understand what unconditional means. Ukraine has already demonstrated a complete inability or unwillingness to negotiate, so I think a peace treaty between Russia and Ukraine will be concluded not as a result of successful negotiations, but as a result of the complete defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

Ok, so for now you do not like Jews (Hebrews should I say not to offend anyone?), you do not like the people who killed them either, you do not like Europe ("gayrope"?), the US... Sounds like the picture of a Russian supremacist (basically a Nazi). And you wonder why Ukraine did not want to play with you guys. Anyway, Putin is not challenging the world order, he is trying to be that order. Must be that all the countries (including Turkey!!) are ruled by the Israelis.

I didn't say I didn't like Jews. I said that being a Jew is not a panacea for Nazism, and gave very specific examples of Nazi Jews who are fighting on the side of Ukraine right now (some of them have very eclectic tattoos that combine a swastika and a Star of David).

"very experienced diplomat"

Do you doubt it? Lavrov touched Israel to the quick in passing, causing an (inadequately) violent reaction. Putin apologized for him and clarified the situation, having exhausted this conflict sucked from the finger. Perhaps now Israel will think before continuing to supply weapons and mercenaries to Ukraine, if its historical memory of the Holocaust is so dear to it. Good diplomacy.

My questions is.. do you also feel superior to all Semitic races and cultures?

I don't know how to formulate it. It seems strange to me that some people read and write from right to left, like Arabs and Jews. It also seems strange to me that some people read and write from top to bottom, like Chinese or Japanese. Is this a reason for me to feel superior because I read and write from left to right? I think not, although reading and writing from left to right personally seems to me definitely more familiar and convenient. And biodiversity is definitely important to me - that's why I'm willing to put up with the oddities of people of other nationalities, as long as they don't impose their cultural values ​​on me as the only correct ones.

[TwitchySeal]

People are made to think that deescalation in Ukraine is now literally in no ones best interest.

May be not in your or Putin's best interest, but if you had bothered to read what I said... remove the tanks -> deescalation. Tanks invaded Ukraine, Javelins did not invade Russia.

Bravo, right so Russia removing all tanks is the only acceptable "deescalation", must've been really tough to propose such radical thought? Thanks for making my point, currently escalation is in everyone's best interest, so the war must go on.

“In a dialogue with the United States and its allies, we will insist on working out specific agreements that would exclude any further NATO moves eastward and the deployment of weapons systems that threaten us in close vicinity to Russian territory,” Putin said.
He charged that “the threats are mounting on our western border,” with NATO placing its military infrastructure closer to Russia and offered the West to engage in substantive talks on the issue, adding that Moscow would need not just verbal assurances, but “legal guarantees.”
“We aren't demanding any special conditions for ourselves and realize that any agreements must take interests of Russia and all Euro-Atlantic countries into account,” Putin said. “A calm and stable situation must be ensured for all and is needed for all without exclusion.”
Putin's statement came a day after he sternly warned NATO against deploying its troops and weapons to Ukraine, saying it represented a red line for Russia and would trigger a strong response.

Medieval thinking 100%.

Again, Putin telling the people of other countries what they can and cannot do in the name of his safety. Again, Putin telling all countries that they cannot join NATO because he says so. This is Putin considering himself ruler of the old USSR and the one who can tell Europe what can and cannot do. It is no longer the case and, after this war, he will be lucky if other "territories" do not start revolting in view of the inefficacy of its army.

US pretty much said that Russia is not allowed to have national security interests

On the contrary, Russia has security interests, Ukraine has security interests (even more now), Finland has security interests, Sweden, Lithuania, Letonia,... all have security interests... the question is why Putin's interest are better than anyone else's. Is it because he's got a better army / more power? Now that argument seems to have a few leaks.

...

And we're back to hypocrisy and double standards. Due to their proximity, US can have national security interests in Cuba, totally normal for NATO and Australia to have national interests in Solomon Islands etc... But why should Russia have national interests that spans to the country directly on it's border that speaks the same language and was part of the same country?? Then we go into, all countries are equal but some are more equal than others, and the ones that clear some imaginary level of democracy/freedom are allowed to absorb countries bordering other superpowers with beneficial offers, while others are not. Great policy, guaranteed to result in wars, so here we are.

Coming up next, everyone acts super surprised when China starts "special operations" in Taiwan after US decides to add Taiwan to it's "defense" pact. US will also be willing to supply Taiwan with any and all weapons till the last standing Taiwanese.

Any comment on why you believe the Pope is wrong as well, in seeing how such policies cannot possibly lead to peace?

Edit: wording

If you're going to use whataboutism, I think the United States committing genocide against the Native Americans would be more appropriate. Also, remember when you defend Russias actions by comparing them to those of other countries, you're also defending those other countries actions.

[paxmao]

...
Any comment on why you believe the Pope is wrong as well, in seeing how such policies cannot possibly lead to peace?

Edit: wording

I did not say anything about the Pope. I think that his thoughts on this matter are irrelevant at this point if you really need a comment from me.

As for the rest, you are comparing today's situation with Cold War. That explains why you consider Putin's actions valid - you live with him in the sixties. The US know it. The US is using it. There is no winner.

[suchmoon]

Russia removing all tanks is the only acceptable "deescalation"

Yes. Also all other weapons and troops from Ukrainian territory. Thanks.

And we're back to hypocrisy and double standards. Due to their proximity, US can have national security interests in Cuba, totally normal for NATO and Australia to have national interests in Solomon Islands etc... But why should Russia have national interests that spans to the country directly on it's border that speaks the same language and was part of the same country??

Many countries were parts of e.g. the British Empire. Things change. But if the US or Australia invades Solomon Islands you should definitely create a thread "US (or Australian) Invasion of Solomon Islands". I might even stop by to see how you derail it yourself with your deluded whataboutism and other fallacies.

[LTU_btc]

Your arrogant snobbery looks funny. Impress naive girls with speculative links to Wikipedia, which anyone can edit, for a man with a beard, this is an unreliable source.

Says person who quotes Russian Defence Ministry, Kadyrov telegram and other Russian пoмoйкa as reliable sources.

Ukraine can immediately end this armed conflict at any time by signing an act of unconditional surrender. And she will have enough territories and human resources for a long happy life.

For a long happy life until Russia will come to take another slice of Ukraine...

I think we will soon see how events will develop in the West of Ukraine, because until the complete liberation of Donbass this is not a paramount issue and there are many interested parties, including Poland, Romania, Hungary and even Moldova. I'm not even sure that the West of Ukraine is now subordinate to Kyiv.

And how do you imagine such thing? All these countries sharing Ukraine into parts? It would be interesting to hear from your perspective what signs shows that it can happen. Because for me it looks like nothing more than poor Russian propaganda attempt to show that Ukraine is country without history and without future.
Most fun part about Moldova. They aren't capable to solve Transistria question and here they're cming to take slice of Ukraine.

I understand what unconditional means. Ukraine has already demonstrated a complete inability or unwillingness to negotiate, so I think a peace treaty between Russia and Ukraine will be concluded not as a result of successful negotiations, but as a result of the complete defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

all thingsshows about Russia unwilingness to negotiate. Basically Russia gave ultimatum to Ukraine to surrender, give whole Donbass and Luhansk, forget about joining NATO, ''denazify'' themselves, not matter what it means and they don't show any intentions to negotiate.

[suchmoon]

And how do you imagine such thing? All these countries sharing Ukraine into parts? It would be interesting to hear from your perspective what signs shows that it can happen. Because for me it looks like nothing more than poor Russian propaganda attempt to show that Ukraine is country without history and without future.

Putinist telegram channels are ablaze with the newest "proof" that Poland is planning to invade Ukraine - Andrzej Duda saying that there will be no border between the two countries. Poor clowns can't comprehend that most of Europe doesn't have borders... and those countries achieved this incomprehensible borderless arrangement without invading each other. Some lessons to be learned there, if Russian chauvinists were capable of learning.

[DaRude]

People are made to think that deescalation in Ukraine is now literally in no ones best interest.

May be not in your or Putin's best interest, but if you had bothered to read what I said... remove the tanks -> deescalation. Tanks invaded Ukraine, Javelins did not invade Russia.

Bravo, right so Russia removing all tanks is the only acceptable "deescalation", must've been really tough to propose such radical thought? Thanks for making my point, currently escalation is in everyone's best interest, so the war must go on.

“In a dialogue with the United States and its allies, we will insist on working out specific agreements that would exclude any further NATO moves eastward and the deployment of weapons systems that threaten us in close vicinity to Russian territory,” Putin said.
He charged that “the threats are mounting on our western border,” with NATO placing its military infrastructure closer to Russia and offered the West to engage in substantive talks on the issue, adding that Moscow would need not just verbal assurances, but “legal guarantees.”
“We aren't demanding any special conditions for ourselves and realize that any agreements must take interests of Russia and all Euro-Atlantic countries into account,” Putin said. “A calm and stable situation must be ensured for all and is needed for all without exclusion.”
Putin's statement came a day after he sternly warned NATO against deploying its troops and weapons to Ukraine, saying it represented a red line for Russia and would trigger a strong response.

Medieval thinking 100%.

Again, Putin telling the people of other countries what they can and cannot do in the name of his safety. Again, Putin telling all countries that they cannot join NATO because he says so. This is Putin considering himself ruler of the old USSR and the one who can tell Europe what can and cannot do. It is no longer the case and, after this war, he will be lucky if other "territories" do not start revolting in view of the inefficacy of its army.

US pretty much said that Russia is not allowed to have national security interests

On the contrary, Russia has security interests, Ukraine has security interests (even more now), Finland has security interests, Sweden, Lithuania, Letonia,... all have security interests... the question is why Putin's interest are better than anyone else's. Is it because he's got a better army / more power? Now that argument seems to have a few leaks.

...

And we're back to hypocrisy and double standards. Due to their proximity, US can have national security interests in Cuba, totally normal for NATO and Australia to have national interests in Solomon Islands etc... But why should Russia have national interests that spans to the country directly on it's border that speaks the same language and was part of the same country?? Then we go into, all countries are equal but some are more equal than others, and the ones that clear some imaginary level of democracy/freedom are allowed to absorb countries bordering other superpowers with beneficial offers, while others are not. Great policy, guaranteed to result in wars, so here we are.

Coming up next, everyone acts super surprised when China starts "special operations" in Taiwan after US decides to add Taiwan to it's "defense" pact. US will also be willing to supply Taiwan with any and all weapons till the last standing Taiwanese.

Any comment on why you believe the Pope is wrong as well, in seeing how such policies cannot possibly lead to peace?

Edit: wording

If you're going to use whataboutism, I think the United States committing genocide against the Native Americans would be more appropriate. Also, remember when you defend Russias actions by comparing them to those of other countries, you're also defending those other countries actions.

Ahh whataboutism, there is no hypocrisy or double standard that it cannot retort.

I'm not defending or justifying anyone, just being a realist. In a perfect world, we all have unlimited freedoms, hugs and kisses, and sing Kumbaya. Unfortunately we're not there yet, so through hard lessons of MAD best we could come up with is to give superpowers their distance and let them all play in their own sandboxes. Sure it's not perfect, has it's own issues but that's the best we could come up with. Now, this whole concept that provided relative peace is being unilaterally challenged, under cover or freedom (of course applied selectively only where it's preferential i.e. not Saudi Arabia or middle east). The results are as expected, and shouldn't surprise anyone.

As an added benefit such convenient new policy can easily start a war between China and Taiwan anytime US wishes, just start sending weapons to Taiwan, it's like everyone knows you'll be starting a war but you can totally get away with it under premise of freedom spreading.

...
Any comment on why you believe the Pope is wrong as well, in seeing how such policies cannot possibly lead to peace?

Edit: wording

I did not say anything about the Pope. I think that his thoughts on this matter are irrelevant at this point if you really need a comment from me.

As for the rest, you are comparing today's situation with Cold War. That explains why you consider Putin's actions valid - you live with him in the sixties. The US know it. The US is using it. There is no winner.

I didn't think that the idea that rules either have to be applied equally or non at all, was such a hard concept to grasp. From April 26, 2022

...we also wanted to let them know that if steps were taken to establish a de facto permanent military presence, power-projection capabilities, or a military installation, then we would have significant concerns and we would very naturally respond to those concerns.  
So, again, I’m not going to speculate what that may or may not involve, but I think our goal was to be very clear in that regard...

https://www.state.gov/teleconference-with-assistant-secretary-of-state-for-east-asian-and-pacific-affairs-daniel-kritenbrink

Think US/Australia said it best (military alliances are a red line for Australia) and US have a significant concerns and it would very naturally respond to those concerns (apparently even the ones on the other side of the world), and cold war has nothing to do with it. You do not want to set a precedence where China can buy their way into military bases on US/Mexico border.

[be.open]

Your arrogant snobbery looks funny. Impress naive girls with speculative links to Wikipedia, which anyone can edit, for a man with a beard, this is an unreliable source.

Says person who quotes Russian Defence Ministry, Kadyrov telegram and other Russian пoмoйкa as reliable sources.

It seems like a couple of times I gave a link to a specific video in Kadyrov's telegram as a prooflink. Or do you seriously think that Chechens know how to deepfake when they shoot a video on the selfie camera of their smartphone?

For a long happy life until Russia will come to take another slice of Ukraine...

Russia has no problems with territories, but it does have problems with a crazy neighbor who has been cultivating hatred of Russians as his national idea for a whole generation. He will have to be punished for this, since diplomatic efforts have not been successful. Be patient, at first it will hurt, and then life will get better.

I think we will soon see how events will develop in the West of Ukraine, because until the complete liberation of Donbass this is not a paramount issue and there are many interested parties, including Poland, Romania, Hungary and even Moldova. I'm not even sure that the West of Ukraine is now subordinate to Kyiv.

And how do you imagine such thing? All these countries sharing Ukraine into parts? It would be interesting to hear from your perspective what signs shows that it can happen. Because for me it looks like nothing more than poor Russian propaganda attempt to show that Ukraine is country without history and without future.
Most fun part about Moldova. They aren't capable to solve Transistria question and here they're cming to take slice of Ukraine.

The policy of Moldova can be called pro-Romanian, up to the plans for the Moldovan-Romanian union. Moldova in the issue of Ukraine is more like a proxy for Romania, plus for it it is a chance to resolve the issue with Transnistria.

Of course, Poland has the most legally justified claims to the western part of Ukraine. In fact, Ukraine voluntarily abandoned six western regions in favor of Poland when, in 2015, it signed a joint declaration condemning the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, according to which these territories that previously belonged to Poland were transferred to Ukraine. It is a pity that you did not know about it, well, now you know.

In addition to Poland, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia and Belarus also have territorial claims to Ukraine for historical reasons. There is an opinion (although I do not adhere to it) that Russia deliberately does not force the complete liberation of Donbass, expecting Poland to invade Western Ukraine. And even provokes Poland to such an invasion through the efforts of the Foreign Intelligence Service.

all thingsshows about Russia unwilingness to negotiate. Basically Russia gave ultimatum to Ukraine to surrender, give whole Donbass and Luhansk, forget about joining NATO, ''denazify'' themselves, not matter what it means and they don't show any intentions to negotiate.

And that was Russia's best offer for Ukraine. Ukraine had to agree, it was possible to save the lives of tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and the Kherson region. Russia's next proposal will be even worse.

[af_newbie]

Your arrogant snobbery looks funny. Impress naive girls with speculative links to Wikipedia, which anyone can edit, for a man with a beard, this is an unreliable source.

Says person who quotes Russian Defence Ministry, Kadyrov telegram and other Russian пoмoйкa as reliable sources.

It seems like a couple of times I gave a link to a specific video in Kadyrov's telegram as a prooflink. Or do you seriously think that Chechens know how to deepfake when they shoot a video on the selfie camera of their smartphone?

For a long happy life until Russia will come to take another slice of Ukraine...

Russia has no problems with territories, but it does have problems with a crazy neighbor who has been cultivating hatred of Russians as his national idea for a whole generation. He will have to be punished for this, since diplomatic efforts have not been successful. Be patient, at first it will hurt, and then life will get better.

I think we will soon see how events will develop in the West of Ukraine, because until the complete liberation of Donbass this is not a paramount issue and there are many interested parties, including Poland, Romania, Hungary and even Moldova. I'm not even sure that the West of Ukraine is now subordinate to Kyiv.

And how do you imagine such thing? All these countries sharing Ukraine into parts? It would be interesting to hear from your perspective what signs shows that it can happen. Because for me it looks like nothing more than poor Russian propaganda attempt to show that Ukraine is country without history and without future.
Most fun part about Moldova. They aren't capable to solve Transistria question and here they're cming to take slice of Ukraine.

The policy of Moldova can be called pro-Romanian, up to the plans for the Moldovan-Romanian union. Moldova in the issue of Ukraine is more like a proxy for Romania, plus for it it is a chance to resolve the issue with Transnistria.

Of course, Poland has the most legally justified claims to the western part of Ukraine. In fact, Ukraine voluntarily abandoned six western regions in favor of Poland when, in 2015, it signed a joint declaration condemning the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, according to which these territories that previously belonged to Poland were transferred to Ukraine. It is a pity that you did not know about it, well, now you know.

all thingsshows about Russia unwilingness to negotiate. Basically Russia gave ultimatum to Ukraine to surrender, give whole Donbass and Luhansk, forget about joining NATO, ''denazify'' themselves, not matter what it means and they don't show any intentions to negotiate.

And that was Russia's best offer for Ukraine. Ukraine had to agree, it was possible to save the lives of tens of thousands of Ukrainian soldiers and the Kherson region. Russia's next proposal will be even worse.

...
In Kyiv on May 9 2022, a traditional parade will be held in honor of the victory of the USSR over Nazi Germany. It is naive and foolish to doubt it.

How about that Russian victory parade on May 9th, 2022 in Kyiv?

You are cordially invited to come, bring your Russian flags, Z posters/stickers, and sunflower seeds.

At this point, Ukrainians will not talk until all Russian soldiers either leave Ukraine (Donbas and Crimea) or die in Ukraine.

There is no other option, so keep drinking your Z kool-aide and keep dreaming of the Soviet Union.

[be.open]

How about that Russian victory parade on May 9th, 2022 in Kyiv?

You are cordially invited to come, bring your Russian flags, Z posters/stickers, and sunflower seeds.

At this point, Ukrainians will not talk until all Russian soldiers either leave Ukraine (Donbas and Crimea) or die in Ukraine.

There is no other option, so keep drinking your Z kool-aide and keep dreaming of the Soviet Union.

It's embarrassing to quote myself, I've already answered a similar question.

Of course I'm right. People are generally stupid, ignorant and poorly educated, you are no exception.

Yeah, that's how the Nazis think. It's good that your words reflect what you really mean. How about we throw all the stupid, ignorant, and poorly educated people into concentration camps? Would that make you happy?

No, it won't make me happy. As Sri Aurobindo Ghose said, "Imperfect is joy that is not shared by all". I am hurt by the suffering of the Ukrainian people, who, due to their stupidity, are forced to experience all the horrors of war. I hope after the operation Ukraine will find a new worthy meaning of life, except for hatred for the fraternal Russian people.

[OutOfMemory]

And how do you imagine such thing? All these countries sharing Ukraine into parts? It would be interesting to hear from your perspective what signs shows that it can happen. Because for me it looks like nothing more than poor Russian propaganda attempt to show that Ukraine is country without history and without future.

Putinist telegram channels are ablaze with the newest "proof" that Poland is planning to invade Ukraine - Andrzej Duda saying that there will be no border between the two countries. Poor clowns can't comprehend that most of Europe doesn't have borders... and those countries achieved this incomprehensible borderless arrangement without invading each other. Some lessons to be learned there, if Russian chauvinists were capable of learning.

My neighbor's wife is russian (studied in europe), his brother's girlfriend is ukrainian.
Both say all russians are routinely brainwashed, practically after given birth.
Right after that statement i could perfectly understand be.open's reasonings.
He's a victim, similar to the boys that died in "military training outside the borders of UA" recently.

Russia is a bubble.

[Veleor]

Meanwhile in the real world the non-existent Bayraktars continue to cause trouble. Two Russian boats have been sent where Russian boats tend to go:

...

If you watch a longer, 2-minute footage, you can see that after the strike at the end of the video, the boat didn't sink, but continued to swim.
Is there any evidence that these boats sank afterwards?

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-business-europe-donetsk-0e361756c6acc287e8974103913abfc6

Close to 600 people died in the Russian airstrike on the Mariupol drama theater on March 16, evidence from an Associated Press investigation suggests. That’s around twice the city government’s estimate of 300 in the deadliest single known attack against civilians in the Ukraine war.

Is it known how thoroughly the AP studied the version with an explosion inside the building? What experts do AP rely on?
The Russian side cited the opinion of Vladislav Ivanovich Telichko, the former Deputy Minister for Emergency Situations of Ukraine, who refutes the airstrike version. According to him, the explosion was carried out inside the theater.
Video with his commentary: https://t.me/srochnow/6820
A translation from Russian to English
01:50 - "Here's another interesting point. This is a fire hydrant. If the explosion had been a little higher at this level, then these articulated joints and everything else would have been deformed or, most likely, even destroyed. But since there were several storey mates and a load-bearing wall, they closed this niche from below. Above us is a roof. If there was an explosion from above, then this swivel would not function. According to this picture of the explosion, the explosion was clearly under the lower layer of reinforced concrete base, on which there was an auditorium and the stage itself".
03:14 - "You see, what I said. There was a third floor, and this is the first floor. The lower, the greater the deformation, much stronger and more. That is, the epicenter of the explosion was under all structures".
04:17 - "The reinforced concrete slab was completely destroyed, and it all went down. The explosion was from below".

Pro-Ukrainian individuals may accuse Vladislav Telichko of bias or subjectivity, that's why such high-profile events should be investigated by independent experts who are neutral towards both sides of the conflict.

Glorious Russian military at its best - killing civilians.
Or attacking parks and playgrounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnTsmj--Ofs

Under this video, one user left a comment, that it was a Russian retaliatory strike on a Ukrainian howitzer.

A translation from Russian to English
Svetlana Vakulenko: "Kharkiv News should also tell that it was a response from the Russian Federation. Maybe someone will tell why it was necessary the AFU show themself first - from a self-propelled howitzer in the direction of Zhukov, in the area of the park, along Novgorodskaya st. (traces of caterpillars on the street are difficult to remove) - and then catch the answer? There are enough witnesses of the shooting of the Armed Forces of Ukraine from Novgorodskaya. A big thank you to the public utilities and firefighters for their work!"

Looks like this user was talking about the northwestern part of the park: https://www.google.com/maps/@50.0218228,36.2445698,17z

Original

[paxmao]

Yeah, I just don't see any reason why the Russians would want it, especially since the peeps in that are are likely to be much less friendly (even in the post Zenensky period.)  I don't really fully buy the argument of 'de-nazification' which strikes me as mostly a PR-friendly excuse.  The benefits of chasing the Nazis into the West is probably not worth the hassles, costs, and risks, and they would just back-fill when the area is vacated anyway.

I think we will soon see how events will develop in the West of Ukraine, because until the complete liberation of Donbass this is not a paramount issue and there are many interested parties, including Poland, Romania, Hungary and even Moldova. I'm not even sure that the West of Ukraine is now subordinate to Kyiv.

You still do not see it. Putin has been brought into a war that is a trap.

Do you now mean that Russia has become a victim of external manipulation and is not to blame for the invasion of Ukraine? This is something new from you.
...

Thanks for recognising that it is an invasion (not a liberation, denazification nor anything else but an invasion - your own words).

- Nothing is happening
- Just an operation
- This is an invasion       < ----- you are here  
- This is a war between Russia and Ukraine.
- This is a war of aggression by Putin.
- This is a crime.

No, I mean exactly what I wrote: that Putin has been brought into a war that is a trap. He is to blame for the invasion because he decided to invade - he may have decided something else, but he lacks a group of people that can tell him he is wrong and has been fooled into believing he could achieve a quick win. Him and his circle have  started  something they cannot finish. There are winners in this war, Russia is not one of them.

My questions is.. do you also feel superior to all Semitic races and cultures?

I don't know how to formulate it. It seems strange to me that some people read and write from right to left, like Arabs and Jews. It also seems strange to me that some people read and write from top to bottom, like Chinese or Japanese. Is this a reason for me to feel superior because I read and write from left to right? I think not, although reading and writing from left to right personally seems to me definitely more familiar and convenient. And biodiversity is definitely important to me - that's why I'm willing to put up with the oddities of people of other nationalities, as long as they don't impose their cultural values ​​on me as the only correct ones.

I do not see a "no" here. Let's leave it there.

BTW, you do not seem to understand the concept of "unconditional", you may have read that in the official media I guess. Unconditional means "no conditions" - e.g. you do not get to keep any territory, nor army, nor government. It is all at the will of the victor - e.g. Japan after WW II so that you get the picture. I do not think you honestly believe that is going to happen.

I understand what unconditional means. Ukraine has already demonstrated a complete inability or unwillingness to negotiate, so I think a peace treaty between Russia and Ukraine will be concluded not as a result of successful negotiations, but as a result of the complete defeat of the Armed Forces of Ukraine.

A peace treaty? Are Ukraine and Russia at war then?  (I think they are, do you?)

Irony apart, there isn't anything like a full defeat, unconditional or conditional or any type of surrender. This is a bear trap and a nasty one.

You demand unconditional surrender from Ukraine while you argue they are not willing to negotiate. I am not sure you what type of deals have you closed in your life - usually someone concedes something and the other concedes as well so everyone is slightly unhappy with the result. In this case, by waging war, I can tell you that both sides are going to be worse off. There is no way the US and Europe are going to let Russia come better-off this war and there is no way Ukraine is going to forget. Needless to say that all the dead civilians and soldiers are not better off.

But the biggest problem Putin will now face is not Ukraine. Finland, Sweden and Ukraine are certainly now almost forced to join NATO. Europe will take all steps to reduce or remove energy trading with Russia. Congratulations for your victory.

Ukrainian people will pay a high price for freedom - it should have been much easier, if Russia had a decent leadership.