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Author Topic: [UNRESPONSIVE POOL OPERATOR] 50BTC.com  (Read 240600 times)
eleuthria
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June 08, 2013, 03:37:56 PM
 #641

Their fee is 7 percent versus 3 percent here, right? That's quite a difference as well. 50BTC has been stable for me for the last two days as well, so I am hesitant to switch right now.

7.5% PPS, yes.  Only 3% on PPLNS, which pays txfees (~1.5% bonus).  Also adding NMC to PPLNS soon which is a ~4% bonus at the moment as well.  The only time BTC Guild has been unstable in over a year iis during attacks or server migrations [which are results of attacks].

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xminerx
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June 08, 2013, 04:10:15 PM
 #642

Their fee is 7 percent versus 3 percent here, right? That's quite a difference as well. 50BTC has been stable for me for the last two days as well, so I am hesitant to switch right now.

7.5% PPS, yes.  Only 3% on PPLNS, which pays txfees (~1.5% bonus).  Also adding NMC to PPLNS soon which is a ~4% bonus at the moment as well.  The only time BTC Guild has been unstable in over a year iis during attacks or server migrations [which are results of attacks].
Just directed my 24/7-miner towards your pool, on PPLNS Smiley As your total hashrate is quite high, the variance is not as high as with other pools. For part-time miners however, I'm sticking with PPS on 50BTC for now, as 7.5% is a bit steep IMHO.

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eleuthria
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June 08, 2013, 05:19:13 PM
 #643

Their fee is 7 percent versus 3 percent here, right? That's quite a difference as well. 50BTC has been stable for me for the last two days as well, so I am hesitant to switch right now.

7.5% PPS, yes.  Only 3% on PPLNS, which pays txfees (~1.5% bonus).  Also adding NMC to PPLNS soon which is a ~4% bonus at the moment as well.  The only time BTC Guild has been unstable in over a year iis during attacks or server migrations [which are results of attacks].
Just directed my 24/7-miner towards your pool, on PPLNS Smiley As your total hashrate is quite high, the variance is not as high as with other pools. For part-time miners however, I'm sticking with PPS on 50BTC for now, as 7.5% is a bit steep IMHO.

Just so you know, "part time miners" are not penalized under PPLNS.  I believe they're not punished under DGM either, but I've never wrapped my head around DGM.  The only system that actually penalizes miners for running part time is slush's score method.

Under PPLNS (BitMinter and BTC Guild), it might look like you are penalized at first.  This is because PPLNS applies payments to shares for a few hours after they have been submitted.  However, turning your miner off doesn't change how much those shares will be paid.  I believe DGM has a similar "charge up" (I've seen it referenced on ozcoin in the past).


That said, PPS has an appeal.  Even at higher fees, it is nice to see steady income, although you miss out on the roller coaster ride when luck is really good.

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favelle75
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June 08, 2013, 06:11:17 PM
 #644

How do we sign up for namecoin?
byronbb
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June 08, 2013, 10:39:29 PM
 #645

So I ve hooked up my block eruptor usb miner to this pool when does this pool send no reg rewards out and what is the minimum?

ehoffman
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June 11, 2013, 11:22:02 AM
 #646

One of the problem with 50BTC is the rounding of the payout per share.  Before, when the difficulty was lower, and earned 500+ Satoshi per shares (ahh, anyone remember those days!), it wasn't making such a difference.  But now, with difficulty of ~15,605,633, you see that 50BTC gives a payout per share of 155 Satoshi, when in reality it should be ~155.39 Satoshi.  That mean you're letting away an extra 0.25% per share.  That is basically equivalent to a fee of approx 3.25%.  And it's the same for all per-share difficulty.  Whatever you set it to, the payout is a multiple of the base difficulty.

Not much you say, but things will only get worse when the difficulty increase.

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doublec
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June 11, 2013, 12:12:49 PM
 #647

Just so you know, "part time miners" are not penalized under PPLNS.  I believe they're not punished under DGM either, but I've never wrapped my head around DGM.  The only system that actually penalizes miners for running part time is slush's score method.

Under PPLNS (BitMinter and BTC Guild), it might look like you are penalized at first.  This is because PPLNS applies payments to shares for a few hours after they have been submitted.  However, turning your miner off doesn't change how much those shares will be paid.  I believe DGM has a similar "charge up" (I've seen it referenced on ozcoin in the past).
You are correct with regards to your DGM statements. DGM and PPLNS are similar with the former having a few more knobs to tweak to adjust who ends up with the variance (pool vs miner).
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June 13, 2013, 04:01:28 AM
 #648

The only system that actually penalizes miners for running part time is slush's score method.

That's not true. It is true that, if you mine only during the first 50% of a round, you may not earn a single Satoshi; but if you mine only during the last 50% of a round, you could earn as much as you would have if you mined during the entire round. Slush's method has a high variance even for steady miners (at least with the decay rate he is using), but the expected reward per share is always the same.

However, turning your miner off doesn't change how much those shares will be paid.

Neither does slush's method. All shares of the current round lose value over time. This happens at the same rate for all shares, independently of who submitted them and if he's still mining. Let's say you earn 0.1 BTC for the shares submitted in a given round. You stopped mining at some point (after T seconds) and would have earned 1.0 BTC if you kept mining until the round finished. In both cases, the shares submitted in the first T seconds are worth 0.1 BTC. In the second scenario, the shares submitted after the first T seconds are worth 0.9 BTC.
organofcorti
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June 13, 2013, 04:21:39 AM
 #649

The only system that actually penalizes miners for running part time is slush's score method.

That's not true.
I'm not sure about that. It's complicated. My intuition says that part time miners should only experience more variance, but I don't know how to prove it.

It is true that, if you mine only during the first 50% of a round, you may not earn a single Satoshi; but if you mine only during the last 50% of a round, you could earn as much as you would have if you mined during the entire round. Slush's method has a high variance even for steady miners (at least with the decay rate he is using), but the expected reward per share is always the same.
I understand what you mean, but part time miners can actually consistently earn more than their expected pay per share by only mining the first portion of every round at Slush's pool.

One of these posts (can't remember which one, sorry) explains:
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/04/41-slushs-pool.html
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/08/42-slushs-score-method-and-miner.html
http://organofcorti.blogspot.com/2012/09/43-slushs-score-method-and-miner.html

However, turning your miner off doesn't change how much those shares will be paid.

Neither does slush's method. All shares of the current round lose value over time. This happens at the same rate for all shares, independently of who submitted them and if he's still mining. Let's say you earn 0.1 BTC for the shares submitted in a given round. You stopped mining at some point (after T seconds) and would have earned 1.0 BTC if you kept mining until the round finished. In both cases, the shares submitted in the first T seconds are worth 0.1 BTC. In the second scenario, the shares submitted after the first T seconds are worth 0.9 BTC.

As I wrote earlier, while I think you're probably correct I'm not sure.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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chunglam
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June 15, 2013, 12:24:31 AM
 #650

One of the problem with 50BTC is the rounding of the payout per share.  Before, when the difficulty was lower, and earned 500+ Satoshi per shares (ahh, anyone remember those days!), it wasn't making such a difference.  But now, with difficulty of ~15,605,633, you see that 50BTC gives a payout per share of 155 Satoshi, when in reality it should be ~155.39 Satoshi.  That mean you're letting away an extra 0.25% per share.  That is basically equivalent to a fee of approx 3.25%.  And it's the same for all per-share difficulty.  Whatever you set it to, the payout is a multiple of the base difficulty.

Not much you say, but things will only get worse when the difficulty increase.


So, 50BTC.com effective fee is 6.25%. That's not good, will switch to other pool if they keep this way. Any suggestion of alternative good PPS pool? Eligius?
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June 15, 2013, 12:36:09 AM
 #651

So, 50BTC.com effective fee is 6.25%. That's not good, will switch to other pool if they keep this way. Any suggestion of alternative good PPS pool? Eligius?

No. Its effective fee is 3.25%, not 3.25% more than the nominal one.

Eligius offers Capped PPS with Recent Backpay (CPPSRB). That's an entirely different animal.
organofcorti
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June 15, 2013, 12:57:47 AM
 #652

One of the problem with 50BTC is the rounding of the payout per share.  Before, when the difficulty was lower, and earned 500+ Satoshi per shares (ahh, anyone remember those days!), it wasn't making such a difference.  But now, with difficulty of ~15,605,633, you see that 50BTC gives a payout per share of 155 Satoshi, when in reality it should be ~155.39 Satoshi.  That mean you're letting away an extra 0.25% per share.  That is basically equivalent to a fee of approx 3.25%.  And it's the same for all per-share difficulty.  Whatever you set it to, the payout is a multiple of the base difficulty.

Not much you say, but things will only get worse when the difficulty increase.


Can you show how you got the 3.25% figure? I'm not following.

Bitcoin network and pool analysis 12QxPHEuxDrs7mCyGSx1iVSozTwtquDB3r
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redtwitz
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June 15, 2013, 01:11:19 AM
 #653

Can you show how you got the 3.25% figure? I'm not following.

50BTC currently pays 0.00000155 BTC per diff 1 share at 15605633 network difficulty.

The miners gets payed 15605633 * 0.00000155 = 24.18873115 BTC per block on average; that's a fee of (25 - 24.18873115) / 25 = 0.032450754 = 3.2450754%.
organofcorti
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June 15, 2013, 02:01:29 AM
 #654

Can you show how you got the 3.25% figure? I'm not following.

50BTC currently pays 0.00000155 BTC per diff 1 share at 15605633 network difficulty.

The miners gets payed 15605633 * 0.00000155 = 24.18873115 BTC per block on average; that's a fee of (25 - 24.18873115) / 25 = 0.032450754 = 3.2450754%.

Ah, got it. I hadn't understood that the pool fee was included.

Not much you say, but things will only get worse when the difficulty increase.

Not necessarily. Is the 50BTC truncating or rounding? If they're rounding, then sometimes you'd get more, and on average you'd get the same. The downside would be that this rounding is a hoppable method.

Fixes:
1. Do what eleuthria does and not round or truncate at the satoshi level; or
2. Increase the minimum submission difficulty so that the effective pay per share is increased.

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50BTC.com
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June 17, 2013, 02:53:16 PM
 #655

We are glad to announce that the pool's hashrate record is broken once again! We've reach a 30 Th/sec milestone! By the way, about three months earlier the total bitcoin network hashrate was about 30Th/sec.

Along with our loyal users, we would like to thank ASIC owners, since their appearance boosted pool's capacity. We are pleased that you choose to mine on 50BTC.com. Such a succes can not be reached without you.

Due to the steady network capacity growth, we expect that the next milestone in 50 Th/sec is around the corner. We develop pool's architecture the way it can be able to cope with any load.

50btc.com - PPS pool, instant payout (Visa, Liberty Reserve, QIWI, Yandex.Money, WebMoney,...), API, fast and responsible support, pay for stale shares.
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June 17, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
 #656

Unable to connect
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 50btc.com.

EDIT now getting 502 Bad Gateway

EDIT2 and its up!

LTC:  LKpJf3uk7KsHU73kxq8iFJrP1AAKN7Yni7  DGC:  DKXGvEbj3Rwgrm2QQbRyNPDDZDYoq4Y44d  XPM:  AWV5AKfLFyoBaMjg9C77rGUBhuFxz5DGGL
chunglam
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June 20, 2013, 01:23:29 AM
 #657

Hash rate drop to 0 but pool is still accepting shares and no credit?Huh?? Huh
zezeto
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June 20, 2013, 01:36:59 AM
 #658

Hash rate drop to 0 but pool is still accepting shares and no credit?Huh?? Huh

Same here!
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June 20, 2013, 01:46:31 AM
 #659

Hash rate drop to 0 but pool is still accepting shares and no credit?Huh?? Huh
+1

Always buying and selling btc in bulk.!
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szmarco
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June 20, 2013, 01:51:19 AM
 #660

twice a month? That's too much!
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