[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[kazuki49]

Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then....

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

[G2M]

Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then....

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

I'd rather have people hodling because they see something more than a GUI oriented cryptocoin at this point. I mean .. if they're gonna buy regardless at some point in the future anyways, I'd rather have them buy it because it's expensive rather than because it's a cryptocoin with a GUI. Pretty much all cryptocoins have GUI's. Not all of them are expensive.

I'd make the argument that people would likely hold it tighter if it was expensive, than if it had a GUI.

[medusa13]

as always, biggest possible source of error sits in front of the screen.
so good software with UI does everything to prevent the user from making something that is not in his best interest. its definetely a requirement, but i was thinking about where to put it. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-functional_requirement)

we absolutely need minimal mixing

[GingerAle]

Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then....

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

Yeah, but its important to realize that anyone using mixin 0 (I'm leering at you Poloniex) are throwing a wrench in the whole system:

From the missive (and this was actually a MRL 1 finding)

Just to sort-of explain it quite simply: if I create a bunch of transactions, and in each transaction I have my signature along with your signature…so just by chance I happen to mix with your signature, and it's the same denomination I put every single time. And then in 6 months' time you go and spend that output at a mixin 0. Suddenly what you're effectively doing is you are invalidating all of the times that output was used previously. Which means that all of the transactions where you and I, where I used your signature as a ring signature on it, is suddenly like…well, anybody looking can go "hey, this ring signature is part of an output that was spent, and so therefore the other one must be the correct one." So that revelation becomes dangerous especially when owning a certain number of outputs, and the knowing that you control those outputs leads to a cascade or a snowball.

so, its not people (with a small p) that need to use mixin 3 to have guaranteed privacy, its People (meaning everyone)

and the fix:

So what we're really trying to move away from his instead of having "unspent" outputs that we mix with, just having outputs that we mixed with and they should always be unspent; it should be impossible to tell if an output has actually been spent on the blockchain or not.

in addition to:

So MRL 4 is something that people can read in their own time, but basically the long and the short of it is that we're going to be moving quite soon to a minimum mixin of 2, and we are going to programmatically lock in that within the next 3 to 5 years that minimum mixing is going to move to 4.

But I might have my understanding of this off a bit. I'm sure i'll be pwned by an Elder soon.

[QuantumQrack]

UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

[GingerAle]

UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

[QuantumQrack]

UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

[celestio]

UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

yea I asked that question as well.

[GingerAle]

UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

yea I asked that question as well.

I never have. I run a local daemon though (no remote node). I made a video of me sending a transaction... perhaps I should find a way to post.

[Hueristic]

Anyword on the GUI wallet? Any rough estimate on how far out that might be?

Your answer is in the wiki.

Link? I couldnt find the wiki link

I think he meant this -> https://forum.getmonero.org/1/news-announcements-and-editorials/190/editorial-why-is-the-official-gui-wallet-not-released-yet

Anyway, on the dogedradio interview devs said it will probably be released within 6 months and certainly this year. That interview was in March.

Devs: If this isn't correct, please correct me.

Sorry my bad, It's linked in the Cryptonote wiki in the monero section. Monero wiki is weak, basically just a basic outline. There was a good one that got tarballed as the dev team is building their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CryptoNote#cite_note-41

Monero (XMR)
Main article: Monero (cryptocurrency)

Monero is a fork of Bytecoin (BNC) launched in April 18, 2014 with a 1-minute block target (instead of 2 minutes block target in Bytecoin). This coin has been launched as BitMonero, but renamed to Monero by its community five days later. A few weeks after Monero's launch, an optimized GPU miner for CryptoNight hash has been developed.[40] Monero development team states official GUI wallet release as one of their secondary goals do to the release of quality third party options.[41] Monero teamed up with academic cryptographers,[42] implemented an extensive aliasing system, OpenAlias,[43] partially funded Privacy Solution for integrating I2P in Monero,[44] created an anonymous voting system, URS,[45] implemented Electrum's mnemonic seeds and released a webwallet.

41 is the link dEBRUYNE provided.

[smooth]

Be cautious with that cryptonote wikipedia entry. There is a lot of agenda-driven propaganda and other completely false crap in there.

Feel free to try to clean it up, but you will likely be battling with someone being paid to edit it.

[GingerAle]

just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Has anyone made any progress on implementing a combined address/payment id, as outlined by luigi1111? There's a ~350 XMR bounty to whoever gets it in.

Adding the payment ID with checksum seems fairly simple. I went and created a test address just now:

Code:

Standard Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byMUKoz6m
Payment ID: feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed

Code:

Integrated Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byXSb563RKvyBgorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9TpPbbCy

What I did:

Instead of the standard hex format - ('12' network byte) + (public spend key 64 digits) + (public view key 64 digits) + (checksum 8 digits) - I stripped the checksum and appended the payment ID, then recalculated and appended the new checksum. This creates a 101 byte address instead of the standard 69 byte, and 139 "Public Address" characters vs 95 standard.

cnBase58 --> hex the above "Integrated Address" and you get (separated for clarity):

Code:

12 55a1e49673f5a8faa6ba4f942585695ceee5c7522496be6fc38d3f09905e3f8b ca6313deac11aff9a7241e7095863b0be3099d50d7a0cd11e0adbcf4990e64b5 feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed b1d0950e

The code just needs to check for length to determine the type. Alternatively, (I don't know what all the other cryptonotes are using) the network byte could be changed to 0x13 or something for the "Integrated Address".

[mmortal03]

UPDATE TO MONERO: ShapeShift has re-launched Monero on the exchange. Buy/sell with XMR on shapeshift.io

Update: XMR is down on shapeshift

Try a hard refresh of the page. XMR is live and operational.

What mixin level does shapeshift.io use when sending Monero to users of the shapeshift service?

Dunno. If I decide to try it out, I'll post my results.

That reminds me, did you ever get a crash on send when using MoneroX?  We discussed that some weeks ago.

yea I asked that question as well.

I never have. I run a local daemon though (no remote node). I made a video of me sending a transaction... perhaps I should find a way to post.

I have. I've mentioned it on the MoneroX thread. I was using a remote daemon when it was happening, just fyi.

just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

Good to know.

Has anyone made any progress on implementing a combined address/payment id, as outlined by luigi1111? There's a ~350 XMR bounty to whoever gets it in.

Adding the payment ID with checksum seems fairly simple. I went and created a test address just now:

Code:

Standard Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byMUKoz6m
Payment ID: feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed

Code:

Integrated Address: 44sKiMHpNjRivdd2NQUyViGYZy4wbJ9L9KhFUaqSSE6JQP9LLbxL9tSikwrhYTRu3x2zKR28txuEc3zSGPduQ9byXSb563RKvyBgorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9gorjsFGwyx9TpPbbCy

What I did:

Instead of the standard hex format - ('12' network byte) + (public spend key 64 digits) + (public view key 64 digits) + (checksum 8 digits) - I stripped the checksum and appended the payment ID, then recalculated and appended the new checksum. This creates a 101 byte address instead of the standard 69 byte, and 139 "Public Address" characters vs 95 standard.

cnBase58 --> hex the above "Integrated Address" and you get (separated for clarity):

Code:

12 55a1e49673f5a8faa6ba4f942585695ceee5c7522496be6fc38d3f09905e3f8b ca6313deac11aff9a7241e7095863b0be3099d50d7a0cd11e0adbcf4990e64b5 feedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeedfeed b1d0950e

The code just needs to check for length to determine the type. Alternatively, (I don't know what all the other cryptonotes are using) the network byte could be changed to 0x13 or something for the "Integrated Address".

This would be great to have.

[5w00p]

just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

The hardfork can't come soon enough.

So, the long-heralded "pay anonymouselee to a bitcoined address" by using shapeshifter is once again a load of male bovine excrement, due to the failure of shadeshift developers to understand the necessity of using mixin > 2.

Brilliant. 

[smooth]

just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

The hardfork can't come soon enough.

So, the long-heralded "pay anonymouselee to a bitcoined address" by using shapeshifter is once again a load of male bovine excrement, due to the failure of shadeshift developers to understand the necessity of using mixin > 2.

Brilliant. 

No. If you are sending XMR to shapeshift (for example to pay for a Bitcoin purchase), you can use whatever mix factor you want.

Even the other way, its not really correct to say that it "isn't anonymous". It still has stealth addresses (the address to which the coins are sent on the blockchain will never have been seen before and never will be seen again) and it's still going to be hard to do a lot of blockchain analysis once those coins are resent with mixing (possibly by the first recipient, if they care).

If you send BTC to shapeshift, then receive XMR (with mix=0) which you intend to send back to shapeshift as a form of BTC mixing (not entirely clear this is a good idea, but that's another issue), you can remix the XMR yourself by sending them to another wallet (with a mix factor) first before sending them back (again with a mix factor -- this mixes the coins twice, the same as if they had sent with a mix originally).

The main issue with mix=0 is the negative effect it has on other transactions and overall blockchain analysis vulnerability via chain reaction effects, but if one transaction happens to be sent to you that way it isn't really a disaster you can't work around.

[sphericon]

Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then....

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

Since the general population is lazy as a rule, just make the default mixin 3 in the gui wallet and 95 percent of people will never change it due to ignorance or laziness...

[smooth]

Though, in general, I understand the GUI wallet push, but the only thing I see this advancing is an increased user-base, which could theoretically lead to increased hodling, which theoretically leads to increased price of the coin. But, if the coin fails untraceability due to people using mixin 0 and dust bombs then....

Fundamentals!!!

But its your money!! And I'm just a dude.

"its not a bug, its a feature!", people using Monero should know to have guaranteed untraceability and privacy they have to use mixin 3 or higher.

Since the general population is lazy as a rule, just make the default mixin 3 in the gui wallet and 95 percent of people will never change it due to ignorance or laziness...

The command line wallet already has a default of 3. MyMonero has some reasonable default (I don't remember what it is) and I'm sure the GUI will have a reasonable default too.

[5w00p]

just tried the shapeshift. Mixin 0.

The hardfork can't come soon enough.

So, the long-heralded "pay anonymouselee to a bitcoined address" by using shapeshifter is once again a load of male bovine excrement, due to the failure of shadeshift developers to understand the necessity of using mixin > 2.

Brilliant. 

No. If you are sending XMR to shapeshift (for example to pay for a Bitcoin purchase), you can use whatever mix factor you want.

Even the other way, its not really correct to say that it "isn't anonymous". It still has stealth addresses (the address to which the coins are sent on the blockchain will never have been seen before and never will be seen again) and it's still going to be hard to do a lot of blockchain analysis once those coins are resent with mixing (possibly by the first recipient, if they care).

If you send BTC to shapeshift, then receive XMR (with mix=0) which you intend to send back to shapeshift as a form of BTC mixing (not entirely clear this is a good idea, but that's another issue), you can remix the XMR yourself by sending them to another wallet (with a mix factor) first before sending them back (again with a mix factor -- this mixes the coins twice, the same as if they had sent with a mix originally).

The main issue with mix=0 is the negative effect it has on other transactions and overall blockchain analysis vulnerability via chain reaction effects, but if one transaction happens to be sent to you that way it isn't really a disaster you can't work around.

OK, good news. Thanks for the explanation.

My apologies for my flippant tone in my earlier post.

Shapeshift is good-to-go then, in my book.

[yeXIABC]

 You decided not to listen to