[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[CryptoAddict]

Your analogies don't work for XMR, because we don't have executives (like Microsoft) or dictators (like DASH). Smooth and Fluffypony are just a couple of the many contributors to the project. Anyone and everyone is welcome to contribute. So why are you particularly concerned with smooth's actions and opinions?

They won't work if you get stuck on technicalities. Stretch your mind a bit. He is known here publicly as "monero dev", that's the closest thing we get to a CEO when it comes to power of representation.

It should be in his best interest to represent Monero so that it looks well.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

Your analogies don't work for XMR, because we don't have executives (like Microsoft) or dictators (like DASH). Smooth and Fluffypony are just a couple of the many contributors to the project. Anyone and everyone is welcome to contribute. So why are you particularly concerned with smooth's actions and opinions?

They won't work if you get stuck on technicalities. Stretch your mind a bit. He is known here publicly as "monero dev", that's the closest thing we get to a CEO when it comes to power of representation.

It should be in his best interest to represent Monero so that it looks well.

Perhaps you're stuck applying labels to contributors of a decentralized project with no heirarchy. I admit there aren't a lot of (if any) projects in the crypto space like it. Divest as you see fit.

[BlockchainBoss]

In what ways can the community improve Monero?

I would like to contribute my time, but am not a coder.

[5w00p]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

..........................................

As far as this "smooth is a free-thinking individual and so... waaah!" crap is concerned:

There are plenty of feeble people in the world. There are plenty of loud-mouthed jackasses as well.
However, people who are intelligent and pragmatic, yet not lacking in intestinal fortitude are a rather rare breed.
smooth seems to be of that rare breed, so I am not one who is offended by him.

Plenty of people can appreciate a person who doesn't shy away from healthy confrontations. The CEO-types aforementioned are certainly disliked by some, but their gusto is a large part of each of their successes.

[AnonCoinTwitter]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

..........................................

As far as this "smooth is a free-thinking individual and so... waaah!" crap is concerned:

There are plenty of feeble people in the world. There are plenty of loud-mouthed jackasses as well.
However, people who are intelligent and pragmatic, yet not lacking in intestinal fortitude are a rather rare breed.
smooth seems to be of that rare breed, so I am not one who is offended by him.

Plenty of people can appreciate a person who doesn't shy away from healthy confrontations. The CEO-types aforementioned are certainly disliked by some, but their gusto is a large part of each of their successes.

The mixin = 3 news is great! I Tweeted it to help show support for monero and shapeshift.io

[smooth]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

Fantastic work Sw00p, GingerAle, Shapeshift, etc! Not only does that make shapeshift.io a more useful service but it improves the health of the network by increasing the amount of mixing on the blockchain. Well done.

[cAPSLOCK]

Yes.  Thanks Shapeshift team, and all who helped them know to use the mixins.

[newb4now]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

Fantastic work Sw00p, GingerAle, Shapeshift, etc! Not only does that make shapeshift.io a more useful service but it improves the health of the network by increasing the amount of mixing on the blockchain. Well done.

+1

This does remind me of the same mixin issue a while back with Poloniex. Has that been resolved? Based on my memory their reason for mixin = 0 instead of mixin = 3 was because of the cost of dealing with dust transactions from people mining to Poloniex directly.

Of course people should not mine directly to any exchange for several reasons.  However how should we advise Poloniex to deal with this? Ban deposits below a certain size? Increase transaction costs (to pay for higher cost of mixin = 3)?

[QuantumQrack]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

Fantastic work Sw00p, GingerAle, Shapeshift, etc! Not only does that make shapeshift.io a more useful service but it improves the health of the network by increasing the amount of mixing on the blockchain. Well done.

+1

This does remind me of the same mixin issue a while back with Poloniex. Has that been resolved? Based on my memory their reason for mixin = 0 instead of mixin = 3 was because of the cost of dealing with dust transactions from people mining to Poloniex directly.

Of course people should not mine directly to any exchange for several reasons.  However how should we advise Poloniex to deal with this? Ban deposits below a certain size? Increase transaction costs (to pay for higher cost of mixin = 3)?

Awesome!  I figured if I instigated (contacted them directly and posted the question in this forum) this mixin situation with Shapeshift a few days ago, they might tweak their service to use mixin = 3.  Thanks for the assistance Monero crew!  Now if we can get Poloniex to do this.

[celestio]

Does xmr.to use the mixin 3?

[QuantumQrack]

Does xmr.to use the mixin 3?

xmr.to is an xmr to btc payment service.  I think the user needs to initiate the mixin from their end.

[GingerAle]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

Fantastic work Sw00p, GingerAle, Shapeshift, etc! Not only does that make shapeshift.io a more useful service but it improves the health of the network by increasing the amount of mixing on the blockchain. Well done.

+1

This does remind me of the same mixin issue a while back with Poloniex. Has that been resolved? Based on my memory their reason for mixin = 0 instead of mixin = 3 was because of the cost of dealing with dust transactions from people mining to Poloniex directly.

Of course people should not mine directly to any exchange for several reasons.  However how should we advise Poloniex to deal with this? Ban deposits below a certain size? Increase transaction costs (to pay for higher cost of mixin = 3)?

Awesome news on the mixin! I feel sheepish for being called out on doing something, but that could just be the imposter syndrome talking. All I did was test a transaction.

re: poloniex - yeah, as far as I understood it, poloniex has a lot of dust due to direct to poloniex miners sending tiny amount transactions.

The eventual MRL4 implementation will fix this problem (because the protocol won't allow <2 mixin transactions).

( I actually had this whole tirade about mining directly to poloniex wallets and that we should all move hash to pools that don't allow this, then I investigated each pool, and found that there's only 1 pool that allows mining to exchanges. The rest of the pools, listed here, don't allow mining directly to exchange as far as I can tell.

http://mro.poolto.be/#getting_started

http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/#getting_started

http://hashinvest.net/#getting_started

https://moneropool.com/#getting_started

http://moneropool.ru/#getting_started - not sure, russion

http://xmr.prohash.net/#getting_started

http://xmr.unipool.pro/#getting_started

http://xmr.crypto-pools.org/#getting_started

http://monero.net/# - No idea, not mentioned

So, the mine directly to Poloniex is not the reason Poloniex can't implement mixin 3.

Or move our volume to another exchange. Poloniex is enjoying its status as the ONLY real volume XMR exchange. In one day - ONE DAY - april 28th, the xmr volume on Polo was 188,721 XMR. 0.2% to sell. 0.2% to buy. A total of 0.4% fee. So in that 24 hour period polo made 754 XMR, which at 0.002 btc / xmr is 1.5 BTC.

over the entire past month (my method was spanning to 1 month, putting 24 hour candlesticks, and hovering over and putting the "volume" data into excel)... the total amount of XMR exchanged on polo was

1 688 626, and at 0.04% gives 6754 XMR in fees,

which at 0.002 btc / xmr is 13.5 btc, or at current value of 236$ / btc is roughly $3200.

And April was a low volume month compared to March! My point is they are siphoning off $3200 a month and they can't figure out how to get the mixin up?

but, the other exchange that I know of (bittrex) is also mixin 0, so currently the only option for BTC <-> monero exchange with mixin 3 is ShapeShift.

And
https://getmonero.org/getting-started/merchants
should be updated, because Melotic does not offer XMR exchange.

[QuantumQrack]

Shapeshift has evidently implemented mixin of 3 when someone buys XMR with BTC or another crypto.

From Shapeshift rep

Hi there! Just wanted to let you know that the team actually had a little time and was able to make the mixin 3 changes you requested. Please feel free to get the word out! Have a good day

Our efforts to persuade them to do so have paid off.
Kudos to them and to those who also communicated with Shapeshift (Ginger Ale, et al).  

Fantastic work Sw00p, GingerAle, Shapeshift, etc! Not only does that make shapeshift.io a more useful service but it improves the health of the network by increasing the amount of mixing on the blockchain. Well done.

+1

This does remind me of the same mixin issue a while back with Poloniex. Has that been resolved? Based on my memory their reason for mixin = 0 instead of mixin = 3 was because of the cost of dealing with dust transactions from people mining to Poloniex directly.

Of course people should not mine directly to any exchange for several reasons.  However how should we advise Poloniex to deal with this? Ban deposits below a certain size? Increase transaction costs (to pay for higher cost of mixin = 3)?

Awesome news on the mixin! I feel sheepish for being called out on doing something, but that could just be the imposter syndrome talking. All I did was test a transaction.

re: poloniex - yeah, as far as I understood it, poloniex has a lot of dust due to direct to poloniex miners sending tiny amount transactions.

The eventual MRL4 implementation will fix this problem (because the protocol won't allow <2 mixin transactions).

( I actually had this whole tirade about mining directly to poloniex wallets and that we should all move hash to pools that don't allow this, then I investigated each pool, and found that there's only 1 pool that allows mining to exchanges. The rest of the pools, listed here, don't allow mining directly to exchange as far as I can tell.

http://mro.poolto.be/#getting_started

http://cryptonotepool.org.uk/#getting_started

http://hashinvest.net/#getting_started

https://moneropool.com/#getting_started

http://moneropool.ru/#getting_started - not sure, russion

http://xmr.prohash.net/#getting_started

http://xmr.unipool.pro/#getting_started

http://xmr.crypto-pools.org/#getting_started

http://monero.net/# - No idea, not mentioned

So, the mine directly to Poloniex is not the reason Poloniex can't implement mixin 3.

Or move our volume to another exchange. Poloniex is enjoying its status as the ONLY real volume XMR exchange. In one day - ONE DAY - april 28th, the xmr volume on Polo was 188,721 XMR. 0.2% to sell. 0.2% to buy. A total of 0.4% fee. So in that 24 hour period polo made 754 XMR, which at 0.002 btc / xmr is 1.5 BTC.

over the entire past month (my method was spanning to 1 month, putting 24 hour candlesticks, and hovering over and putting the "volume" data into excel)... the total amount of XMR exchanged on polo was

1 688 626, and at 0.04% gives 6754 XMR in fees,

which at 0.002 btc / xmr is 13.5 btc, or at current value of 236$ / btc is roughly $3200.

And April was a low volume month compared to March! My point is they are siphoning off $3200 a month and they can't figure out how to get the mixin up?

but, the other exchange that I know of (bittrex) is also mixin 0, so currently the only option for BTC <-> monero exchange with mixin 3 is ShapeShift.

And
https://getmonero.org/getting-started/merchants
should be updated, because Melotic does not offer XMR exchange.

Great post Gingerale!  If there was an exchange that offered a mixin = 3 or higher, I would most likely use that exchange.  In fact, I would imagine most people would move their activity over to the new exchange.  Thanks for the info Gingerale.

[GingerAle]

Great post Gingerale!  If there was an exchange that offered a mixin = 3 or higher, I would most likely use that exchange.  In fact, I would imagine most people would move their activity over to the new exchange.  Thanks for the info Gingerale.

Yeah, we tried with Polo using the same method that you just did with Shapeshift. They moved to mixin 3 for a day, maybe hours, before switching it back. No idea if it was due to complaints from traders because of the increase in transaction fees, or if it was a technical glitch caused by the high mixins and dust.

[oblox]

Great post Gingerale!  If there was an exchange that offered a mixin = 3 or higher, I would most likely use that exchange.  In fact, I would imagine most people would move their activity over to the new exchange.  Thanks for the info Gingerale.

Yeah, we tried with Polo using the same method that you just did with Shapeshift. They moved to mixin 3 for a day, maybe hours, before switching it back. No idea if it was due to complaints from traders because of the increase in transaction fees, or if it was a technical glitch caused by the high mixins and dust.

Wait, so Polo is now back to mixin 1 vs 3?

[GingerAle]

Great post Gingerale!  If there was an exchange that offered a mixin = 3 or higher, I would most likely use that exchange.  In fact, I would imagine most people would move their activity over to the new exchange.  Thanks for the info Gingerale.

Yeah, we tried with Polo using the same method that you just did with Shapeshift. They moved to mixin 3 for a day, maybe hours, before switching it back. No idea if it was due to complaints from traders because of the increase in transaction fees, or if it was a technical glitch caused by the high mixins and dust.

Wait, so Polo is now back to mixin 1 vs 3?

I think the last withdraw i did was 0. But that was maybe a couple of weeks ago? Ah yes. I remember being pissed off because I accidentally sent it to my personal wallet and not my MyMonero wallet.

[ArticMine]

The problem as I see it is that Poloniex generates many unique dust outputs, which cannot be sent with a mixin greater than 1, unless we break outputs down to 0.000000000001 XMR. So for example 0.000000004321XMR would be broken into 0.000000004000 XMR, 0.000000000300 XMR, 0.000000000020 XMR, and 0.000000000001 XMR etc.

[nikos64]

Strange... 
I made a withdrawal from Poloniex to see how things are, and there is no TX Fee at all.
For 18.2 XMR supposed to receive exactly 18 but it was the full amount in my wallet.
To be sure, I made another one, very small this time, 0.29164127 XMR, and again the full 0.29164127 came into my wallet.
And yes, the mixin is 0.

[smooth]

The problem as I see it is that Poloniex generates many unique dust outputs, which cannot be sent with a mixin greater than 1, unless we break outputs down to 0.000000000001 XMR. So for example 0.000000004321XMR would be broken into 0.000000004000 XMR, 0.000000000300 XMR, 0.000000000020 XMR, and 0.000000000001 XMR etc.

We're eventually going to break everything all the way down, although it will be up to the parties involved to decide how much precision they actually want, since more outputs means bigger transactions and higher fees. There might also be a minimum acceptable size enforced by the p2p though, since the twelfth decimal place is realistically spam more than anything else at this point.

[smooth]

So, the mine directly to Poloniex is not the reason Poloniex can't implement mixin 3.

It isn't the only reason but it is part of the reason. The overall reason is that their deposits are often small and from miners, whether the miners do it direct from the pool or not. If you have people depositing 10 XMR at a time and then someone buys and withdraws 10K, that means 1000 inputs is needed to fund the transaction (i.e. very large).

I don't know that there is a good solution other than building it into their business model and cost structure somehow. It isn't entirely unique to XMR, although the larger ring signatures and transactions make the problem worse.