[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[oda.krell]

plus 1 for classical fundraising, minus... a lot for a forkraiser. As if we don't have enough detractors, just imagine what will happen if we build a payout into the protocol.

That said, I'm kinda out of the loop here: is there a Bitcoin accepting Kickstarter-like site in the wild?

What about the Mike Hearn 'alternative to the BTC foundation' project, that is supposed to combine community decision making with fundraising? Any ETA on that, and whether it'll be usable by alts?

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[aminorex]

[...consensus enforced reward share...]

When considering such options, please be careful not to poison XMR's image.  I would rather pay 50% out of pocket voluntarily than 1% involuntarily - because I think an involuntary payment will degrade the value of the currency by more than 50%.  It would be a value-destroying option.  [Note that no one is proposing a brute tax here - just brainstorming.]

BBR's method is less damaging to the currency than a brute tax:  It is default opt-in, IIRC, which is not so bad.  It doesn't press a one-sided change in contract. 

[aminorex]

What about the Mike Hearn 'alternative to the BTC foundation' project, that is supposed to combine community decision making with fundraising? Any ETA on that, and whether it'll be usable by alts?

MEW does this for XMR.  An open cross-currency foundation would command a pathetically limited kingdom, because they are so often at each other's throats (often irrationally).

[pinky]

I guess ill go ahead and bring up my idea of crowd funding again. Tell us how much it will cost to have the database finished. Tell us when it will be completed if you do raise the funds. Then I will hold peoples funds in escrow until enough is raised. The moment the funding goal is reached i will deliver the funds to the devs as per the arrangement. If the funding goal is not reached than I will refund everyone’s money.

See rep thread in signature if you are concerned about whether I am qualified for this task.

Wouldn't it be better to do it on kickstarter or the like?  Wider audience.  BTCT is a ghetto.

Yes, this is the way to go.

Anon136 idea of forking in order to give 1% of mining reward to dev team is bad and will only bring confusion. If that would to occur xmr would become worthless. Forking is violent way of doing things.

Kickstarter idea works in real world. Devs (or maybe MEW?) only need to create page where they or any other interested party could publish ideas for xmr changes/projects. Of course they will have to make a good arguments in layman terms why this changes would be beneficial and how much would it cost. Distinguished members or multisig wallet or donators vote will decide if job is finished.

[Ultros]

Did you see this? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786201.0

[...]

* I have found very specific exploits in CN that have not been fixed that would be successful on XMR. Most are what I call annoyance attacks, that would be fixed and the coin would probably survive, but one is a coin killer. In XMR there exist a flaw involving the keyrings that under the right conditions will allow an attacker to steal your wallets and hijack your addresses. To fix this, anonymity will need to be sacrificed. These exploits are why two top exchanges who have asked for my opinion have not added XMR.

[...]

[fluffypony]

Also obviously this would have to be temporary. The devs would need to commit to weaning off of such a system after given features are implemented or a given period of time.

I would suggest exhausting all possible external options for raising funds before building something into the software. I think going this other route would be more scandalized and trolled than you're considering.

I don't think that it's fundamentally bad to build something into the software. Not sure if you saw the Missive, but in the last wizard screenshot there's an idea for an auto-donation system we want to implement: https://i.imgur.com/ACDmOFJ.jpg

The basic idea is that it's completely user-selectable, based on a % of your tx fee (cumulative to avoid adding dust outputs) that is added on top of the tx fee, so it'll never have a major impact. In the GUI we'd most likely have it on at 50% by default.

[rpietila]

Regarding donations - we already have about 20% of the Monero owners joining MEW. If we get this number to about 50%, then it will be easier to fund development as a community effort because there is no free riding.

[nakaone]

Regarding donations - we already have about 20% of the Monero owners joining MEW. If we get this number to about 50%, then it will be easier to fund development as a community effort because there is no free riding.

how to get in there?


a third idea and that is basically how mike hear financed his project is to convince very rich anarchists/libertarians that this project has a lot of value. finding these guys in the bitcoin environment should be easy convincing them that there is place for a second major currency is hard. first because the person probably thinks it shoots its own leg, second because there needs to be an incentive for him. that said I think there are people who see besides their own profit, moral reasons to invest in a project like this.

[dEBRUYNE]

Regarding donations - we already have about 20% of the Monero owners joining MEW. If we get this number to about 50%, then it will be easier to fund development as a community effort because there is no free riding.

how to get in there?


a third idea and that is basically how mike hear financed his project is to convince very rich anarchists/libertarians that this project has a lot of value. finding these guys in the bitcoin environment should be easy convincing them that there is place for a second major currency is hard. first because the person probably thinks it shoots its own leg, second because there needs to be an incentive for him. that said I think there are people who see besides their own profit, moral reasons to invest in a project like this.

Suit yourself: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=776479.0

[Ultros]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

[rpietila]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

What were the findings again?

[Ultros]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

What were the findings again?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786201.0

[...]

* I have found very specific exploits in CN that have not been fixed that would be successful on XMR. Most are what I call annoyance attacks, that would be fixed and the coin would probably survive, but one is a coin killer. In XMR there exist a flaw involving the keyrings that under the right conditions will allow an attacker to steal your wallets and hijack your addresses. To fix this, anonymity will need to be sacrificed. These exploits are why two top exchanges who have asked for my opinion have not added XMR.

[...]

[nakaone]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

What were the findings again?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786201.0

[...]

* I have found very specific exploits in CN that have not been fixed that would be successful on XMR. Most are what I call annoyance attacks, that would be fixed and the coin would probably survive, but one is a coin killer. In XMR there exist a flaw involving the keyrings that under the right conditions will allow an attacker to steal your wallets and hijack your addresses. To fix this, anonymity will need to be sacrificed. These exploits are why two top exchanges who have asked for my opinion have not added XMR.

[...]

not a developer but he told about that flaw back in july, which worried me a that time. I think it is either very hard to find or non-existent in the way bitcoinexpress wants it to execute. but could be dead wrong here.

btw. he said he does not want to execute it

[Ultros]

not a developer but he told about that flaw back in july, which worried me a that time. I think it is either very hard to find or non-existent in the way bitcoinexpress wants it to execute. but could be dead wrong here.

btw. he said he does not want to execute it

He does not want to execute it but as soon as he state that the flaw exist and can be exploited, people that want XMR to disappear (and we can suspect there are a few...) will try to find a way to use it.
He literally pointed his finger in the right direction on a public's forum.

[damiano]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

What were the findings again?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=786201.0

[...]

* I have found very specific exploits in CN that have not been fixed that would be successful on XMR. Most are what I call annoyance attacks, that would be fixed and the coin would probably survive, but one is a coin killer. In XMR there exist a flaw involving the keyrings that under the right conditions will allow an attacker to steal your wallets and hijack your addresses. To fix this, anonymity will need to be sacrificed. These exploits are why two top exchanges who have asked for my opinion have not added XMR.

[...]

not a developer but he told about that flaw back in july, which worried me a that time. I think it is either very hard to find or non-existent in the way bitcoinexpress wants it to execute. but could be dead wrong here.

btw. he said he does not want to execute it

The door is opened up now (more so than ever before) because of his statement.  He has already hinted at the conditions, so at this point if a select few who were skilled at reading code the way BCX is is able to, they could possibly execute it as well.

Interesting to say the least.

[samaricanin]

Much hatred on Monero

[fluffypony]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

Claiming to have something and providing evidence thereof are two different things.

If you have an exploit for a (genuine, not-scammy) FOSS project, not releasing it *at least* to the developers is unconscionable - you aren't hurting a corporation or a bunch of fat cats, you're hurting a small group of developers who work - unpaid - on a software development project for the presumed betterment of everyone. You're hurting altruists who are giving of themselves for little or no reward, but I guess there are people who are so ethically imbalanced that they don't even consider this.

At a minimum some technical details about it would be nice.

[rdnkjdi]

Regarding donations - we already have about 20% of the Monero owners joining MEW. If we get this number to about 50%, then it will be easier to fund development as a community effort because there is no free riding.

I don't have 2,000 - 5,000 XMR.  I'll get to the lower end of this eventually.  

Also I'm not a huge fan of good ole' boys clubs unless I'm an outsider interfacing with it / them.  

I don't think there's anything wrong with this effort - but trying to use ego to garner donations I fear will not be successful (hope I'm wrong).  I already have a Monero shill or two on ignore so I probably wouldn't get along well with this group.

[cAPSLOCK]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

Claiming to have something and providing evidence thereof are two different things.

If you have an exploit for a (genuine, not-scammy) FOSS project, not releasing it *at least* to the developers is unconscionable - you aren't hurting a corporation or a bunch of fat cats, you're hurting a small group of developers who work - unpaid - on a software development project for the presumed betterment of everyone. You're hurting altruists who are giving of themselves for little or no reward, but I guess there are people who are so ethically imbalanced that they don't even consider this.

At a minimum some technical details about it would be nice.

Well let's hope he provides this.

[Ultros]

Hahem am I the only one that think BCX's findings are worrisome?

Claiming to have something and providing evidence thereof are two different things.

If you have an exploit for a (genuine, not-scammy) FOSS project, not releasing it *at least* to the developers is unconscionable - you aren't hurting a corporation or a bunch of fat cats, you're hurting a small group of developers who work - unpaid - on a software development project for the presumed betterment of everyone. You're hurting altruists who are giving of themselves for little or no reward, but I guess there are people who are so ethically imbalanced that they don't even consider this.

At a minimum some technical details about it would be nice.

I fully agree that BCX's behavior in that situation is, at best, a bit clumsy, and I'm really sorry about the consequent FUD. I hope you guys will find a way to reason him and get some details. All the best.