[ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency

[Kora]

This is not looking good, it doesn't take much time to post here 

I'm concerned too, mainly for Darkhorse at this stage. For him to be quiet at this time suggests to me that whatever it is that he's dealing with must be pretty serious stuff. Let's wait three more days, then we'll discuss options. There's always a way forward!

[mortare]

Hopefully DH will give us some updates shortly.

I personally haven't been able to transfer my ORA yet because I'm having some problem syncing the NXT client. Will try to get it working ASAP.

Thanks Mac

Also haven't been able to transfer my ORA yet, but with Darkhorse not responding i am gonna wait.
Will this be the end?

[tintumon]

When do we conclude, we've been scammed and move on?

[3x2]

This is not looking good, it doesn't take much time to post here 

I'm concerned too, mainly for Darkhorse at this stage. For him to be quiet at this time suggests to me that whatever it is that he's dealing with must be pretty serious stuff. Let's wait three more days, then we'll discuss options. There's always a way forward!

already passed 3 days, whats the plan now?

[Kora]

When do we conclude, we've been scammed and move on?

It might be time to concede defeat (i.e. the original plans & goals for project ORA have failed), but that's not the same as saying "we've been scammed and move on". Please don't label ORA a scam, even if this is in fact the end. A scam is a deliberate attempt to deceive people for personal gain. I have not deceived anyone, and I have personally lost quite a bit of money pursuing ORA.

Everyone associated with ORA acted in good faith, except for nio (maybe) our one time lead dev. Maybe he acted dishonestly to sabotage the project from the start and deceived me, and by extension everyone else, but that's a subjective matter as there's no proof one way or another. nio took my 2 bitcoin personal bounty for taking up the roll of lead dev, then communicated with us publicly and privately for a few months without doing anything of substance, then disappeared. Maybe he's had a good laugh at my/your/our expense, or maybe he fell under a bus. Who knows.

I think I am definitely open to criticism, but not for being a scammer. A fail isn't the same as a scam. Nobody made any money from ORA except Mac Red (who I paid for his work on the registration webapp), and nio. Everyone else, including Darkhorse, was acting voluntarily, so nobody made any $$$ out of ORA. Maybe some made profits from trading on the NXT AE but I did not -  I bought a load of ORA (~14 million) and sold none!

[l8orre]

When do we conclude, we've been scammed and move on?

It might be time to concede defeat (i.e. the original plans & goals for project ORA have failed), but that's not the same as saying "we've been scammed and move on". Please don't label ORA a scam, even if this is in fact the end. A scam is a deliberate attempt to deceive people more personal gain. I have not deceived anyone, and I have personally lost quite a bit of money pursuing ORA.

Everyone associated with ORA acted in good faith, except for nio (maybe) our one time lead dev. Maybe he acted dishonestly to sabotage the project from the start and deceived me, and by extension everyone else, but that's a subjective matter as there's no proof one way or another. nio took my 2 bitcoin personal bounty for taking up the roll of lead dev, then communicated with us publicly and privately for a few months without doing anything of substance, then disappeared. Maybe he's had a good laugh at my/your/our expense, or maybe he fell under a bus. Who knows.

I think I am definitely open to criticism, but not for being a scammer. A fail isn't the same as a scam. Nobody made any money from ORA except Mac Red (who I paid for his work on the registration webapp), and nio. Everyone else, including Darkhorse, was acting voluntarily, so nobody made any $$$ out of ORA. Maybe some made profits from trading on the NXT AE but I did not -  I bought a load of ORA (~14 million) and sold none!

so there is a NXT MS currency called 'ORA' now on the blockchain, and the only one who has access to it is Darkhorse? Is that it? No redundancy?

You can't even write him a post card like in the old days and ask him if he is all right and to give you a telephone call?

[mikelitoris]

When do we conclude, we've been scammed and move on?

It might be time to concede defeat (i.e. the original plans & goals for project ORA have failed), but that's not the same as saying "we've been scammed and move on". Please don't label ORA a scam, even if this is in fact the end. A scam is a deliberate attempt to deceive people more personal gain. I have not deceived anyone, and I have personally lost quite a bit of money pursuing ORA.

Everyone associated with ORA acted in good faith, except for nio (maybe) our one time lead dev. Maybe he acted dishonestly to sabotage the project from the start and deceived me, and by extension everyone else, but that's a subjective matter as there's no proof one way or another. nio took my 2 bitcoin personal bounty for taking up the roll of lead dev, then communicated with us publicly and privately for a few months without doing anything of substance, then disappeared. Maybe he's had a good laugh at my/your/our expense, or maybe he fell under a bus. Who knows.

I think I am definitely open to criticism, but not for being a scammer. A fail isn't the same as a scam. Nobody made any money from ORA except Mac Red (who I paid for his work on the registration webapp), and nio. Everyone else, including Darkhorse, was acting voluntarily, so nobody made any $$$ out of ORA. Maybe some made profits from trading on the NXT AE but I did not -  I bought a load of ORA (~14 million) and sold none!

that sucks man, you put alot of effort into this project, sorry to hear.

[Kora]

This is not looking good, it doesn't take much time to post here  

I'm concerned too, mainly for Darkhorse at this stage. For him to be quiet at this time suggests to me that whatever it is that he's dealing with must be pretty serious stuff. Let's wait three more days, then we'll discuss options. There's always a way forward!

already passed 3 days, whats the plan now?

Good question!! I'm open to ANY and ALL suggestions. Despite my best efforts, most of my ideas and strategies at the start ended up failing pretty badly. Since nio disappeared we adjusted as best we could and took coinsolidation's advice to 'assimilate' other dead & dying coins into ORA as a NXT MS currency. The revised plan was a pretty good come-back, but it's on hold now while we wait for Darkhorse to hopefully join us again soon.

It can't hurt to wait for DH, but if he's gone for good then we've lost access to the treasury NXT accounts. Everything is recorded in the blockchain, so we could in theory create a new treasury account with ORA2 MS currency, but we don't have a treasurer anymore, and part of the original starfish ideas was to separate the treasury and asset/token creation, distribution, and onging community/bounty financing functions from the dev side, with me as a bridge between the two. Throw in a couple of motivated 5% 'whales' (Mac & nio) and it always made sense to me!

Unfortunately ORA is really just me at the moment, and that's not exactly a vital thriving starfish community

 

[Kora]

When do we conclude, we've been scammed and move on?

It might be time to concede defeat (i.e. the original plans & goals for project ORA have failed), but that's not the same as saying "we've been scammed and move on". Please don't label ORA a scam, even if this is in fact the end. A scam is a deliberate attempt to deceive people more personal gain. I have not deceived anyone, and I have personally lost quite a bit of money pursuing ORA.

Everyone associated with ORA acted in good faith, except for nio (maybe) our one time lead dev. Maybe he acted dishonestly to sabotage the project from the start and deceived me, and by extension everyone else, but that's a subjective matter as there's no proof one way or another. nio took my 2 bitcoin personal bounty for taking up the roll of lead dev, then communicated with us publicly and privately for a few months without doing anything of substance, then disappeared. Maybe he's had a good laugh at my/your/our expense, or maybe he fell under a bus. Who knows.

I think I am definitely open to criticism, but not for being a scammer. A fail isn't the same as a scam. Nobody made any money from ORA except Mac Red (who I paid for his work on the registration webapp), and nio. Everyone else, including Darkhorse, was acting voluntarily, so nobody made any $$$ out of ORA. Maybe some made profits from trading on the NXT AE but I did not -  I bought a load of ORA (~14 million) and sold none!

so there is a NXT MS currency called 'ORA' now on the blockchain, and the only one who has access to it is Darkhorse? Is that it? No redundancy?

You can't even write him a post card like in the old days and ask him if he is all right and to give you a telephone call?

I know DH lives in Malaysia, which he mentioned publicly a few times, but we never exchanged real world  details. I'm still confident he'll be back, just not sure when. I'm waiting! DH was a good guy, so whatever happened, it must be BIG, and as he was only acting as a community volunteer, real world matters should take precedence.

[Kora]

that sucks man, you put alot of effort into this project, sorry to hear.

Thanks for your comment!! It does suck, but I don't feel too bad for myself. I learnt quite a few useful life lessons, and I had an itch, and I scratched it, so I'm OK. I do feel very bad for those who bought ORA on the NXT AE. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm a realist too. Things don't look very good at the moment.

edit: one irony I have to admit is (k)ORA started in response to my overwhelming feeling that the early Qora community were going about things in a very short-sighted way, and that stimulated me to ask "could I do things better". Well, I must admit that right at this moment my efforts have failed, while Qora over the last few weeks has really strengthened it's position as a truly great decentralised PoS coin. Even though my intention was never to make a straight clone of Qora (and I've mentioned that on many occasions) I do feel like the "Kora, a clone of Qora" was a mistake, even as just an initial attention grabbing 'stunt'. I am very happy to see Qora doing well though!!

[tintumon]

When do we conclude, we've been scammed and move on?

It might be time to concede defeat (i.e. the original plans & goals for project ORA have failed), but that's not the same as saying "we've been scammed and move on". Please don't label ORA a scam, even if this is in fact the end. A scam is a deliberate attempt to deceive people for personal gain. I have not deceived anyone, and I have personally lost quite a bit of money pursuing ORA.

Everyone associated with ORA acted in good faith, except for nio (maybe) our one time lead dev. Maybe he acted dishonestly to sabotage the project from the start and deceived me, and by extension everyone else, but that's a subjective matter as there's no proof one way or another. nio took my 2 bitcoin personal bounty for taking up the roll of lead dev, then communicated with us publicly and privately for a few months without doing anything of substance, then disappeared. Maybe he's had a good laugh at my/your/our expense, or maybe he fell under a bus. Who knows.

I think I am definitely open to criticism, but not for being a scammer. A fail isn't the same as a scam. Nobody made any money from ORA except Mac Red (who I paid for his work on the registration webapp), and nio. Everyone else, including Darkhorse, was acting voluntarily, so nobody made any $$$ out of ORA. Maybe some made profits from trading on the NXT AE but I did not -  I bought a load of ORA (~14 million) and sold none!

Sorry to hear about your loses, Kora.
People who bought ora from the market, believing in ORA may not share the same view.
Time to move on.

[Mac Red]

that sucks man, you put alot of effort into this project, sorry to hear.

Thanks for your comment!! It does suck, but I don't feel too bad for myself. I learnt quite a few useful life lessons, and I had an itch, and I scratched it, so I'm OK. I do feel very bad for those who bought ORA on the NXT AE. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm a realist too. Things don't look very good at the moment.

Agreed. Learnt a ton from this project & community. ORA has always had a really strong, open and honest foundation IMO. Whatever happens next I'm proud to have been a part of it.

[Kora]

that sucks man, you put alot of effort into this project, sorry to hear.

Thanks for your comment!! It does suck, but I don't feel too bad for myself. I learnt quite a few useful life lessons, and I had an itch, and I scratched it, so I'm OK. I do feel very bad for those who bought ORA on the NXT AE. I'm not giving up yet, but I'm a realist too. Things don't look very good at the moment.

Agreed. Learnt a ton from this project & community. ORA has always had a really strong, open and honest foundation IMO. Whatever happens next I'm proud to have been a part of it.

Hey, thanks Mac! You did a great job with the initial webapp registration system, and our FREE distribution process was 100% legit. We tried our best to make the distribution fair and free from abuse, and we can be proud of that. Thanks for working on ORA with me Mac. I'm not giving up just yet, and hopefully we'll be working together on new challenges soon, but take care for now, and all the best for the future

A HUGE thanks also goes out to frag for all the great work he did on CryptoFest! One day that might take off, ya never know I know you worked on ORA in a voluntary capacity to help 'make something', and that's the true spirit of the crypto movement that's often not so obvious on this forum, but it is here. Most crypto followers want to help make our world a bit better, and we know decentralised organisational structures can do that, if their allowed a chance to grow and spread across the globe. Crypto and blockchain tech is about so much more than just 'money', and people pitching in to help community based projects like frag did with ORA can make all the difference. Thanks man

[Kora]

edit: one irony I have to admit is (k)ORA started in response to my overwhelming feeling that the early Qora community were going about things in a very short-sighted way, and that stimulated me to ask "could I do things better". Well, I must admit that right at this moment my efforts have failed, while Qora over the last few weeks has really strengthened it's position as a truly great decentralised PoS coin. Even though my intention was never to make a straight clone of Qora (and I've mentioned that on many occasions) I do feel like the "Kora, a clone of Qora" was a mistake, even as just an initial attention grabbing 'stunt'. I am very happy to see Qora doing well though!!

Now this^^^ is called GROWING SOME (literally & metaphorically)...   RESPECT!  

As far as ORA goes...  just give DH as much time as you feel is appropriate.  Then...  I see absolutely NO reason why you shouldn't proceed with issuing a new treasury account if he doesn't show up.  Find someone willing to take up that role (if not yourself) and take advantage of the fact that the real ORA distribution has not started yet...  do a name change if you have to!  

Thanks smaragda, some really good advice there!! I'm going to give Darkhorse a while longer. He's a good dude, and he's worth waiting for IMO. ORA needs a solid community treasurer, and I think that person is DH. He's a crypto true believer, like many following ORA over the last year or so, but he's obviously got his hands full with something else at the moment, and I fully understand that.

I believe the decentralised crypto currency community is in its infancy, and the direction and 'vibe' we tried to create for ORA was worthwhile, and worth persisting with. The initial distribution of ORA tokens was fair and open, and I still believe focusing on the community building elements first is a good strategy to follow, especially when the goal is to create a vibrant & resilient decentralised leaderless starfish community.

With that in mind it's time to put ORA into hyper-sleep while we wait for Darkhorse to come back and re-animate things. My gut tells me DH will be back soon. If he isn't ... well, everything is recorded on the NXT blockchain, so someone else could always .....

Sweet dreams ORA!!

[Kora]

Update!
I have some good news to share, we have another community treasurer on standby! Pilot, a long standing 'hero member' of nxtforum.org community has stepped up and volunteered to be ORA's community treasurer in case Darkhorse doesn't make it back to us!! This is obviously wonderful news, and it means the conversion of ORA & MIC assets into the ORA MS currency will still go ahead, although maybe without the 'XOR' currency code. We will wait for the release of NXT ver 1.5 that will include 2 of 3 phasing accounts. Pilot and (hopefully) fragORA and (hopefully) Darkhorse will then be able to continue as community treasurers with the 2 of 3 fail-safe built in for the future. A BIG thanks to Pilot for stepping up, thanks so much

Also, Ludom, the spiritual leader of MIC (the 'Meme coin' asset) has given us his blessing for future support of the MIC redemption into ORA MS. This is another boost for ORA, as the union of ORA & MIC will create a very well distributed MS currency. I thank Ludom for his continued support.

I want to stress that I still hope (and pray) that Darkhorse is OK, and he will always be welcomed back into the ORA community with open arms should he return!! We are still waiting for DH to return (and for NXT ver 1.5), so it's back into the cryogenic sleep pods again for now, but we can rest a bit more easily now that we have a viable roadmap ahead no matter what happens with DH.

A good day for ORA!!

P.S. None of the MIC or Ora have been dumped from the collection fund: http://nxtreporting.com/?a=NXT-G7QA-2KUA-BLLZ-5FUCY&c=USD That will keep a sliver of hope alive.

The Blockchain does have everything we need to continue, we just need a new treasurer if DH has indeed left permanently. I sent DH 25K to pay for the XOR name, so we would lose that unfortuantely, but in theory we could continue with a new issuing account and name. Eventually we will probably explore that, once we stop waiting for DH to return. I sent all my ORA in to the redemption accounts, but a lot of people didn't, but everything is there to reconstruct and continue with the MIC and ORA asset redemption for XOR MS currency, assuming someone steps up to be the new community treasurer. I'm open to ideas!!

I would be happy to be the/a treasurer. However, I suggest you wait until phasing is live (1.5) and create a 2 of 3 account so that the loss of one person doesn't kill things.

The loss of 25k isn't great, but I expect you might be able to recover that with donations. Also, you can use ORA as the MS id and still use XOR as a ticker on exchanges/etc.

But, lets hope Darkhorse is ok and he is at least able to communicate and get the password over to another primary.

Hey, thanks so much Pilot, your offer has made my day

I agree we should continue to wait a little longer for Darkhorse, and for phasing in ver 1.5. IMO there isn't any reason to feel too much pressure to get ORA 'finished', as we're an experimental community project and the MS itself is still quite new, and people are yet to discover it in any great numbers. We also still need to determine the holy grail ('what do people use ORA for?'), but that will hopefully develop over time.

What we do have though is a pretty decent attempt at a distribution for ORA, and as most of us are aware, the distribution of crypto coins can be problematic. Our first round distribution via the webapp registration system that Mac Red and I designed in June last year was very successful at minimising sockpuppet abuse, and generally well received. The ORA asset then had ~1000 trades on the NXT AE over a number of months, so for a token/asset that was given away FREE, we did manage to achieve a pretty solid distribution that hasn't left any 'perception' problems. That's definitely worth building on, so thanks again for offering your support Pilot

cheers

If a new launch is done, you have my support but don't have enough time to help.

Thanks Ludom! Moral support is what ORA needs now, and ideas & suggestions for how to make it useful in the future. I think as time goes on, the longer ORA/MIC is around being seen by people in this community, the better are our chances of having more talented people come on board later to help make ORA/MIC really 'interesting'.

The challenge for now is really just to survive long enough to be around when the next great crypto wave of interest and adoption hits. When that happens the MS *could* really take off, and ORA will be in a great position to be quite useful as one of the more widely distributed MS currencies.

see: https://nxtforum.org/assets-board/(ann)(micoin)the-most-interesting-coin-in-the-world-pure-90-pom/msg174067/#msg174067

[freigeist]

Nice!
Thank you for the latest updates!

[TTCoin]

Someone has lost the patience or knows more than us.

[Kora]

Someone has lost the patience or knows more than us.

Not sure what you mean ... my best guess is Darkhorse is up to his eyeballs in real life matters, so the amount of time he has free for crypto has gone. I hope (and pray) he is OK, but maybe he's had an accident of some sort, or other major life changing event.

[Kora]

Good news

I want to get this 'out there' asap so everyone has the same information. Earlier today (about two hours ago) I posted a quick update on nxtforum.org in response to a query regarding whether ORA was still 'alive' or not. In my reply I mentioned that another ORA follower, Jack Needles, had suggested to me privately via a PM recently that ORA would be a great candidate for NXT 'shuffling'. Jack and myself traded a few PM's over a couple of days recently on the subject.

Within a short while of my post, jl777 posted some ideas and indicated that he liked the basic idea (i.e. ORA *could* become the NXT communities default 'shuffling' MS coin). That's as far as things have progressed, but having jl777 "interested" is obviously something I'm very pleased about, and from past experience I know that jl777 getting involved and "interested" with projects is very noteworthy!

I want bitcointalk users to be aware of this information too, so everyone has the same information at roughly the same time. So far trade of ORA on the NXT AE is the same as before (i.e. last trade was 9th April), but having a 'sexy' real world use case with obvious merit (i.e a NXT defacto shuffling coin to add anon capabilities to NXT), and jl777, arguably the most respected developer in the crypto community, showing .... (read what jl777 said for yourself, make up your own mind) .. well, things might change for ORA a bit now, so everyone should have the relevant facts at roughly the same time.

Please note that lots of MS currencies will potentially use 'shuffling', so this isn't an exclusive thing for ORA or anything like that, but for anon shuffling to work effectively the relevant MS coin needs to have lots of users 'shuffling' at the same time, and that probably means the community might decide to unofficially 'anoint' an MS coin with a good back story as the defacto 'shuffling coin', and ORA's history and wide distribution puts us in a good position to fulfill that roll.

A good day for ORA!

...so Am I right to say that ORA is practically dead or half-dead at this moment?

Sorry for not replying earlier!

I'm pleased to report that ORA is definitely NOT dead. We're currently waiting for:
1- ver 1.5 of NXT to be released which will include phasing, which we'll use for community fund accounts
2- the return of Darkhorse, our original community, who hasn't been active for a while .

Well known forum member 'Pilot' has volunteered to be a community treasurer in the event that DH doesn't come back to us, so we WILL be able to reconsruct everything regarding the MIC redemption from DH's various community fund accounts. Some people sent in their MIC and ORA assets in preparation for conversion into the 'XOR' MS currency, but many didn't.

Once NXT ver 1.5 is on mainnet we will create a new multi-user controlled phased community treasurers account, which we'll use to create the ORA MS currency (maybe not named 'XOR' now, as Darkhorse has complete control of that account) and then we'll reconstruct redemption balances that were sent in prior to the original deadline, then we'll proceed with the remaining redemptions for those who didn't send in their MIC & ORA assets before.

I'm still hopeful that DH will re-appear. He was/is a good community guy, and his part of the world did suffer some major flooding earlier this year, and that may have made it hard for him to pursue his crypto interests in recent months. His ORA accounts have been idle, so it appears he's not active, but we're still hopeful he'll be back, but if he isn't, we can still proceed.

The other day forum member 'Jack Needles' suggested a possible use case for ORA MS currency as the 'go-to' coin to anonymize NXT accounts via 'shuffling'. I think this is an excellent idea to pursue further, as basic fungibility of crypto currencies is in serious doubt without the ability of ALL users to periodically anonymize their coins when they wish.

ORA will be (probably) the MS coin with the widest distribution (and we still have coins to distribute too!), so Jack Needles suggestion to try and position ORA MS as the NXT communities defacto 'shuffle coin' is definitely worth debating & exploring further! Thanks Jack

More details on NXT shuffling can be found:
https://nxtforum.org/monetary-system/ms-coin-for-shuffling-nxt/

Feature description on bitbucket:
https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/issue/135

As always, ORA loves feedback, input, advice, suggestions, criticism - engagement!!

I like this idea of a default shuffle coin!
It will require payments on a regular basis for the tx
However, I think what would be most effective is to have a single block every so often where all the shuffling happens

No matter how good the shuffling if the total anon set it 2, then it has little privacy.
But if ALL ORA users at block N*1000 did the shuffle, then it will do a few things
a) totally fill up some NXT blocks
b) randomize which tx end up in these full blocks
c) create a pretty large anon set, which will allow others to more safely mix their tx during this specified block
d) create regular (weekly?) events that are at least noticeable

However, ORA will need to have a meaningful market value for it to be useful for doing anything real.

The total value should be > than the total tx volume of these shuffling blocks. I have an idea for this.

Also, I think someone can make a shuffle party plugin so you can set it to be active and it shows some cool countdown sequence, or just memes to tie it into its MIC history

James

from: https://nxtforum.org/ora/(ann)-xor-redemption-process/msg175481/#msg175481

[josegines]

So far trade of ORA on the NXT AE is the same as before (i.e. last trade was 9th April),

I do not understand how this benefits me. I sent my ORA to Darkhorse to change them into XOR. I cannot already do anything with my ORA, because I already do not have them.
I do not know why you say that the commerce of ORA in the AE is the same, I for example cannot sell my ORA

You forgive because a translator used and I do not understand well the translation but I do not understand for what speech of the AE when many ORA are caught in an account that Darkhorse administers.