[ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency

[yeasee]

why you guys want distribut this coin before the stakeholder is not enghou.
i think this coin must distribut to all stakeholders before issuse NXT AE..under this condition the dev control 80% of the coin.that's dangerous.

[Kora]

50% free distribution but the first distribution only 15% ~ 150M

Why 166,666 ORA/stake?

Will everyone receive 2 stake or 3 stake?

This unfair distribution, the great blow to investor confidence.

The ORA distribution is as follows:

50% - distributed equally to ~3000 webapp registration applicants
5% - goes to the registration webapp dev
5% - goes to the dev who clones Qora, and creates the Kora wallet applications
2% - Kora founder
8% - goes to node bot bounties
4% - website & marketing
1% - Qora dev
25% - POWER BOUNTIES

By design we are holding back a lot of assets/coins for later distribution to compensate people for doing things. That's a key part of the ORA experiment. We're trying to get a fair distribution, and just as importantly (probably more), we're trying to get an EFFECTIVE distribution. Effective to me means we have enough stakes left over to motivate & reward people for DOING THINGS. Without an active engaged community of people doing all the tasks needed to bootstrap ORA, we will fail, but who wants to do EVERYTHING for no compensation? A labour of love is one thing, but if somebody works 10-30 hours a week doing great things for ORA I want to give them a chance to get a power bounty, voted by the community.

Because we didn't reach our target of 3000 stakeholders we decided to distribute as if we did (i.e. give everyone 166,667 ORA) and then we'll vote to decide what we do with the left over stakes.

That'll account for 50% of the total ORA given away for FREE. The other 50% will not be sold, so it will be given away, but in exchange for 'doing things'. This is one of the key ideas behind ORA.

IMO an effective PoS coin distribution should end up resembling something like a chess set (which is based on a medieval feudal world). So you end up with something like this:
- a large number of small stakeholders (pawns)
- a small number of large stakeholders (queens)
- a mix of mid range stakeholders (knights, bishops, rooks)

Combine stake with skills and the analogy with Chess is even stronger. A dev with a 5% stake (like Jean-Luc from NXT) is the ultimate 'Queen', well motivated with a large stake & highly skilled. We need to attract 'Queens' to ORA, that is my goal anyway! A dev with a small stake but high skills & motivation can EARN a large stake by offering their time & skills to help us. That can't happen with NXT, as they don't have large community resources to pay people, BUT WE DO!!

The big difference with the Chess analogy is there is no king (i.e. no satoshi, no BCNext ... a starfish organisation). If everyone has an equal stake (i.e. all pawns) there is a very high chance of momentum stalling due to the 'bystander effect', where everybody expects others to do the work. Larger stakeholders have a high motivation due to their self-interest so they are potentially the key to a successful coin. That is the experience from NXT, but in that case the big NXT stakeholders came from an IPO, and there weren't any 'pawns', so people complain about the 'fairness' of the distribution.

In the case of ORA our whales will be based on merit, who does the 'work' as voted on by 'our' community. It's about achieving an effective 'balance' - fair & effective!!

Remember, just like in a game of Chess, every pawn can end up a Queen if they are useful & get to the other side. Every ORA stakeholder has a chance to be a 'Whale' if they do good things for the community and the community of their peers votes for them to receive  a power bounty.

I hope that explains things a little better (from my point of view anyway).

[Kora]

One thing that might not be obvious to some stakeholders is once we distribute the stakes, if new people buy up ORA tokens on the NXT AE from early sellers, those new buyers will be able to vote on the left over stake issue too, as far as I know.

Is that important? I'm not sure, but anyone who votes who wasn't an original stakeholder is LESS likely to vote to give the original stakeholders a top up I guess. I'd assume they would vote in their best interest to either have a 'round 2' to increase the community size, or to use the left overs for more bounties.

I'm not sure how long until the NXT voting system is live, and I don't know if there's a way to only allow the original stakeholders to vote. That might encourage people to HODL for a while until after the vote.

Something to consider anyway!

[DarkhorseofNxt]

Very obvious some of you are not reading the thread and just jumping on the last 1 or 2 threads. I recommend spend some time reading what is happening. Dont just jump into your own conclusion. All the answers to your questions have been answered in the previois posts. Read before question.

[martismartis]

Well, you'll distribute 166.667 ORA assets for each stakeholder. Somebody for sure will dump, somebody will hodl, somebody will buy. And then goes vote what to do with unclaimed stakes. If vote will win that unclaimed stakes should go to stakeholders, so how these unclaimed stakes will be distributed, while there will be new ORA assets holders after mentioned dump, hodl and buy? Or do I miss something?

[DarkhorseofNxt]

Well, you'll distribute 166.667 ORA assets for each stakeholder. Somebody for sure will dump, somebody will hodl, somebody will buy. And then goes vote what to do with unclaimed stakes. If vote will win that unclaimed stakes should go to stakeholders, so how these unclaimed stakes will be distributed, while there will be new ORA assets holders after mentioned dump, hodl and buy? Or do I miss something?

1. The initial number of stake holders allocated was 3k. These 3k will be receiving 50% of total coins issued. Enough time has been given for the registration. And now we end up with 8++ Round 1 stake holders.

2. 50% is allocated to total stakes of 50% hence the 166,666 number of coins per stake. Once the nxt voting comes in, we will decide what to with the leftovers. Now if from that initial round 1 stake holders wants to dump or not is not our concern. The remaining stake holders will be deciding on the leftovers. This is something beyond our control. We have raised this question few times but none has raised their concerns until now. I think you guys being quite unfair.

Just my view.

[jshow5555]

Very obvious some of you are not reading the thread and just jumping on the last 1 or 2 threads. I recommend spend some time reading what is happening. Dont just jump into your own conclusion. All the answers to your questions have been answered in the previois posts. Read before question.

It is kind of easier to put the important info in the OP, instead of expecting everybody to read 80 pages of thread...

But if you think it is our fault sure, it is... if you say so.

[martismartis]

Well, you'll distribute 166.667 ORA assets for each stakeholder. Somebody for sure will dump, somebody will hodl, somebody will buy. And then goes vote what to do with unclaimed stakes. If vote will win that unclaimed stakes should go to stakeholders, so how these unclaimed stakes will be distributed, while there will be new ORA assets holders after mentioned dump, hodl and buy? Or do I miss something?

1. The initial number of stake holders allocated was 3k. These 3k will be receiving 50% of total coins issued. Enough time has been given for the registration. And now we end up with 8++ Round 1 stake holders.

2. 50% is allocated to total stakes of 50% hence the 166,666 number of coins per stake. Once the nxt voting comes in, we will decide what to with the leftovers. Now if from that initial round 1 stake holders wants to dump or not is not our concern. The remaining stake holders will be deciding on the leftovers. This is something beyond our control. We have raised this question few times but none has raised their concerns until now. I think you guys being quite unfair.

Just my view.

Thank you for reply. So, as I understand, initial distribution will be half (50%) of stakes to stakeholders. If vote will be to distribute another half to existing ORA asset holders at the vote moment, so, if I have, for example, 200,000 ORA asset, so I'll get another 200,000 ORA assets? In other words, every asset holder will double his assets. Am I right?

If this decision will come, it will be interesting to look at trades an AE

[Kora]

Well, you'll distribute 166.667 ORA assets for each stakeholder. Somebody for sure will dump, somebody will hodl, somebody will buy. And then goes vote what to do with unclaimed stakes. If vote will win that unclaimed stakes should go to stakeholders, so how these unclaimed stakes will be distributed, while there will be new ORA assets holders after mentioned dump, hodl and buy? Or do I miss something?

1. The initial number of stake holders allocated was 3k. These 3k will be receiving 50% of total coins issued. Enough time has been given for the registration. And now we end up with 8++ Round 1 stake holders.

2. 50% is allocated to total stakes of 50% hence the 166,666 number of coins per stake. Once the nxt voting comes in, we will decide what to with the leftovers. Now if from that initial round 1 stake holders wants to dump or not is not our concern. The remaining stake holders will be deciding on the leftovers. This is something beyond our control. We have raised this question few times but none has raised their concerns until now. I think you guys being quite unfair.

Just my view.

Thank you for reply. So, as I understand, initial distribution will be half (50%) of stakes to stakeholders. If vote will be to distribute another half to existing ORA asset holders at the vote moment, so, if I have, for example, 200,000 ORA asset, so I'll get another 200,000 ORA assets? In other words, every asset holder will double his assets. Am I right?

If this decision will come, it will be interesting to look at trades an AE

Not quite correct.

This is from the OP:
Update 13:
Proposal to use NXT 'voting system' to decide left over stake issue
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=620518.msg7868027#msg7868027

Click that link and you get:

We will have a lot of stakes left over, and I've made a proposal that we use the NXT AE voting system to decide what to do democratically.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673587.msg7816967#msg7816967

The original poll showed most people who responded were in favour of distributing left over stakes to the ~1000 non-sockpuppet registration applications we received via the registration webapp.

I am in favour of keeping at least some of the stakes in trust for later distribution, as I think that is both fair, and smart, as those stakes would be extremely beneficial for later promotion when (k)Ora is more established technically, and we want to generate some interest.

Feel free to respond in the poll thread and let people know your thoughts.

IMO the greatest asset we have right now is the embryonic community we have forming around a few key ideas & goals. As far as I am concerned (k)Ora is a longer term project than many other crypto coins, and the more people we have with a stake in the medium term the better.

This isn't going to be a pump & dump, as right now we don't have any working code, and it could be quite a while before we do, so anyone who dumps their stake now can take their 5-25 cents and go and buy a lolly pop, as that's all a (k)Ora stake will be worth IMO.

We'll publish the list soon, finalise the stakeholder list, then we'll distribute the 'first' round stakes on the NXT AE. After that .... we'll all decide what to do, assuming people like the idea of using the NXT AE to decide things like this.

I really do want this to be a decentralised community, so we need a mechanism to work things out, and the NXT AE voting system *could*  be the revolutionary management tool that crypto projects have been waiting for.

If there is no leader how do WE decide what to do? We vote!! Voting is probably only relevant for really big decisions, like the left over stake issue, so we'd only use it very occasionally IMO, and we'd have established procedures to cover how the votes would be organised.

Who's ever followed a coin, invested some time and a few dollars in mining or buying coins only to see it all go down the drain because the "main guy(s)" went MIA? Sometimes those projects can recover, but that's usually because a new "main guy" steps in to fill the void. What about if there's always a void? How should "things" get worked out so a project keeps moving forward when it faces a BIG contentious decision? Direct democracy, the community has a cheap and easy to organise vote!

If you missed the registration you can still speak up here and let people know your opinion on the stake issue, and anything else.

I think having a large number of stakes in trust for later use would actually increase the long term value of the first round stakes by a larger $ amount than  if we just give everyone a bigger 'slice' of a smaller 'pie'.

People make coins successful just as much as the tech!!

If you missed out have your say now, and try and convince the ~1k stakeholders reading your post that keeping some stakes in reserve for 'FREE' distribution later will be in THEIR interest. That's my argument - You help yourself just as much by helping others to join in now.

Remember, some of the key ideas for (k)Ora so far have been stakes are FREE, we will try to distribute fairly (no socks, long period of warning, long registration period etc), and most importantly, this is a decentralised leaderless 'starfish' community, so if you want something to happen, or a particular decision to be made - SPEAK UP & JOIN IN!

Everyone interested & motivated can influence the direction of (k)Ora!!

The information is accessible from the OP if you follow the links.

edit: We're distributing as if we reached 3K stakeholders (that's where the 166,667 ORA assets comes from, 500 M / 3000). Depending on the vote, we'll either give existing stakeholders more, or use for a 'round 2', or bounties, or some combination.


This is the '50%' we're doing today, but only to ~880 people, so it's not the full 50%. The vote decides the left overs.
50% - distributed equally to ~3000 webapp registration applicants


The other 50% will be distributed based on the original plan:
5% - goes to the registration webapp dev
5% - goes to the dev who clones Qora, and creates the ORA wallet applications
2% - ORA founder
8% - goes to node bot bounties
4% - website & marketing
1% - Qora dev
25% - POWER BOUNTIES




I hope that is clear now!

[DarkhorseofNxt]

Very obvious some of you are not reading the thread and just jumping on the last 1 or 2 threads. I recommend spend some time reading what is happening. Dont just jump into your own conclusion. All the answers to your questions have been answered in the previois posts. Read before question.

It is kind of easier to put the important info in the OP, instead of expecting everybody to read 80 pages of thread...

But if you think it is our fault sure, it is... if you say so.

Which information are you referring to now?

[martismartis]

Well, you'll distribute 166.667 ORA assets for each stakeholder. Somebody for sure will dump, somebody will hodl, somebody will buy. And then goes vote what to do with unclaimed stakes. If vote will win that unclaimed stakes should go to stakeholders, so how these unclaimed stakes will be distributed, while there will be new ORA assets holders after mentioned dump, hodl and buy? Or do I miss something?

1. The initial number of stake holders allocated was 3k. These 3k will be receiving 50% of total coins issued. Enough time has been given for the registration. And now we end up with 8++ Round 1 stake holders.

2. 50% is allocated to total stakes of 50% hence the 166,666 number of coins per stake. Once the nxt voting comes in, we will decide what to with the leftovers. Now if from that initial round 1 stake holders wants to dump or not is not our concern. The remaining stake holders will be deciding on the leftovers. This is something beyond our control. We have raised this question few times but none has raised their concerns until now. I think you guys being quite unfair.

Just my view.

Thank you for reply. So, as I understand, initial distribution will be half (50%) of stakes to stakeholders. If vote will be to distribute another half to existing ORA asset holders at the vote moment, so, if I have, for example, 200,000 ORA asset, so I'll get another 200,000 ORA assets? In other words, every asset holder will double his assets. Am I right?

If this decision will come, it will be interesting to look at trades an AE

Not quite correct.

This is from the OP:
Update 13:
Proposal to use NXT 'voting system' to decide left over stake issue
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=620518.msg7868027#msg7868027

Click that link and you get:


The information is accessible from the OP if you follow the links.

edit: We're distributing as if we reached 3K stakeholders (that's where the 166,667 ORA assets comes from, 500 M / 3000). Depending on the vote, we'll either give existing stakeholders more, or use for a 'round 2', or bounties, or some combination.


This is the '50%' we're doing today, but only to ~880 people, so it's not the full 50%. The vote decides the left overs.
50% - distributed equally to ~3000 webapp registration applicants


The other 50% will be distributed based on the original plan:
5% - goes to the registration webapp dev
5% - goes to the dev who clones Qora, and creates the ORA wallet applications
2% - ORA founder
8% - goes to node bot bounties
4% - website & marketing
1% - Qora dev
25% - POWER BOUNTIES




I hope that is clear now!

Thank You Kora for information. My considerations, and only considerations, was about bolded underlined. Let's move on

[tomavbttt]

Assets can be released today?

[Kora]

Assets can be released today?

YES! Darkhorse is distributing them (manually) as a write this! There seemed to be a problem with the asset distribution plugin.

ORA has some bids & offers already!

[pigheadbig]

Assets can be released today?

YES! Darkhorse is distributing them (manually) as a write this! There seemed to be a problem with the asset distribution plugin.

ORA has some bids & offers already!

GREAT NEWS.
FINALLY we can trade.

[3x2]

Assets can be released today?

YES! Darkhorse is distributing them (manually) as a write this! There seemed to be a problem with the asset distribution plugin.

ORA has some bids & offers already!

where can we find Asset ID?

[mladen00]

Well, you'll distribute 166.667 ORA assets for each stakeholder. Somebody for sure will dump, somebody will hodl, somebody will buy. And then goes vote what to do with unclaimed stakes. If vote will win that unclaimed stakes should go to stakeholders, so how these unclaimed stakes will be distributed, while there will be new ORA assets holders after mentioned dump, hodl and buy? Or do I miss something?

1. The initial number of stake holders allocated was 3k. These 3k will be receiving 50% of total coins issued. Enough time has been given for the registration. And now we end up with 8++ Round 1 stake holders.

2. 50% is allocated to total stakes of 50% hence the 166,666 number of coins per stake. Once the nxt voting comes in, we will decide what to with the leftovers. Now if from that initial round 1 stake holders wants to dump or not is not our concern. The remaining stake holders will be deciding on the leftovers. This is something beyond our control. We have raised this question few times but none has raised their concerns until now. I think you guys being quite unfair.

Just my view.

Thank you for reply. So, as I understand, initial distribution will be half (50%) of stakes to stakeholders. If vote will be to distribute another half to existing ORA asset holders at the vote moment, so, if I have, for example, 200,000 ORA asset, so I'll get another 200,000 ORA assets? In other words, every asset holder will double his assets. Am I right?

If this decision will come, it will be interesting to look at trades an AE

Not quite correct.

This is from the OP:
Update 13:
Proposal to use NXT 'voting system' to decide left over stake issue
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=620518.msg7868027#msg7868027

Click that link and you get:

We will have a lot of stakes left over, and I've made a proposal that we use the NXT AE voting system to decide what to do democratically.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=673587.msg7816967#msg7816967

The original poll showed most people who responded were in favour of distributing left over stakes to the ~1000 non-sockpuppet registration applications we received via the registration webapp.

I am in favour of keeping at least some of the stakes in trust for later distribution, as I think that is both fair, and smart, as those stakes would be extremely beneficial for later promotion when (k)Ora is more established technically, and we want to generate some interest.

Feel free to respond in the poll thread and let people know your thoughts.

IMO the greatest asset we have right now is the embryonic community we have forming around a few key ideas & goals. As far as I am concerned (k)Ora is a longer term project than many other crypto coins, and the more people we have with a stake in the medium term the better.

This isn't going to be a pump & dump, as right now we don't have any working code, and it could be quite a while before we do, so anyone who dumps their stake now can take their 5-25 cents and go and buy a lolly pop, as that's all a (k)Ora stake will be worth IMO.

We'll publish the list soon, finalise the stakeholder list, then we'll distribute the 'first' round stakes on the NXT AE. After that .... we'll all decide what to do, assuming people like the idea of using the NXT AE to decide things like this.

I really do want this to be a decentralised community, so we need a mechanism to work things out, and the NXT AE voting system *could*  be the revolutionary management tool that crypto projects have been waiting for.

If there is no leader how do WE decide what to do? We vote!! Voting is probably only relevant for really big decisions, like the left over stake issue, so we'd only use it very occasionally IMO, and we'd have established procedures to cover how the votes would be organised.

Who's ever followed a coin, invested some time and a few dollars in mining or buying coins only to see it all go down the drain because the "main guy(s)" went MIA? Sometimes those projects can recover, but that's usually because a new "main guy" steps in to fill the void. What about if there's always a void? How should "things" get worked out so a project keeps moving forward when it faces a BIG contentious decision? Direct democracy, the community has a cheap and easy to organise vote!

If you missed the registration you can still speak up here and let people know your opinion on the stake issue, and anything else.

I think having a large number of stakes in trust for later use would actually increase the long term value of the first round stakes by a larger $ amount than  if we just give everyone a bigger 'slice' of a smaller 'pie'.

People make coins successful just as much as the tech!!

If you missed out have your say now, and try and convince the ~1k stakeholders reading your post that keeping some stakes in reserve for 'FREE' distribution later will be in THEIR interest. That's my argument - You help yourself just as much by helping others to join in now.

Remember, some of the key ideas for (k)Ora so far have been stakes are FREE, we will try to distribute fairly (no socks, long period of warning, long registration period etc), and most importantly, this is a decentralised leaderless 'starfish' community, so if you want something to happen, or a particular decision to be made - SPEAK UP & JOIN IN!

Everyone interested & motivated can influence the direction of (k)Ora!!

The information is accessible from the OP if you follow the links.

edit: We're distributing as if we reached 3K stakeholders (that's where the 166,667 ORA assets comes from, 500 M / 3000). Depending on the vote, we'll either give existing stakeholders more, or use for a 'round 2', or bounties, or some combination.


This is the '50%' we're doing today, but only to ~880 people, so it's not the full 50%. The vote decides the left overs.
50% - distributed equally to ~3000 webapp registration applicants


The other 50% will be distributed based on the original plan:
5% - goes to the registration webapp dev
5% - goes to the dev who clones Qora, and creates the ORA wallet applications
2% - ORA founder
8% - goes to node bot bounties
4% - website & marketing
1% - Qora dev
25% - POWER BOUNTIES




I hope that is clear now!

''We're distributing as if we reached 3K stakeholders (that's where the 166,667 ORA assets comes from, 500 M / 3000). Depending on the vote, we'll either give existing stakeholders more, or use for a 'round 2', or bounties, or some combination.''

so... let' vote

[michaelb87]

Assets can be released today?

YES! Darkhorse is distributing them (manually) as a write this! There seemed to be a problem with the asset distribution plugin.

ORA has some bids & offers already!

where can we find Asset ID?

16194910134118257692

[pigheadbig]

Assets can be released today?

YES! Darkhorse is distributing them (manually) as a write this! There seemed to be a problem with the asset distribution plugin.

ORA has some bids & offers already!

where can we find Asset ID?

16194910134118257692

thanks, can you tell us the buy and sell order?
nxt wallet still sycing...

[Kora]

''We're distributing as if we reached 3K stakeholders (that's where the 166,667 ORA assets comes from, 500 M / 3000). Depending on the vote, we'll either give existing stakeholders more, or use for a 'round 2', or bounties, or some combination.''

so... let' vote

The NXT voting system isn't live yet, but from all reports, it's very close! You can check its progress here, https://nxtforum.org/voting-system/final-notes/

Once the NXT voting system is live we'll use it asap. While we're waiting we can start formulating the voting options, and the process.

Do you have any suggestions? Hopefully we'll learn a lot using the left over stakes issue as a test case, and if it goes well it'll unlock a very powerful tool for decentralised decision making (and it might be fun too ).

[michaelb87]

Assets can be released today?

YES! Darkhorse is distributing them (manually) as a write this! There seemed to be a problem with the asset distribution plugin.

ORA has some bids & offers already!

where can we find Asset ID?

16194910134118257692

thanks, can you tell us the buy and sell order?
nxt wallet still sycing...

Sell order:
166.666 ORA - 0.1 - 16.666 NXT

Buy order
1.000.000 ORA - 0.00065 - 650 NXT

So selling a stake for +- 1.2 BTC and people wanting to buy for +-0.01 BTC per stake. Haha quite a spread. I would like to see something in the middle, 0.5 BTC per stake.