[ANN] ORA :: NXT 'monetary system' currency

[DarkhorseofNxt]

Its quiet here.  Just a reminder, this week we will be finalising Ora's very own logo for voting. I hope everyone check out those logos. They are cool and nice. Lotsa work there.

[gvans]

just a teaser 

[spinnel]

News Update : Dear everyone - please update your nxt client to the new release NRS v1.2.3 before block 213,000.

I tried downloading the latest nxt client from http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/

but it only gives v1.2.2, not the new release NRS v1.2.3

When will the new release NRS v1.2.3 be available?

[Yuzu]

News Update : Dear everyone - please update your nxt client to the new release NRS v1.2.3 before block 213,000.

I tried downloading the latest nxt client from http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/

but it only gives v1.2.2, not the new release NRS v1.2.3

When will the new release NRS v1.2.3 be available?

It's available now.  Once you download the client you'll see a red box in the Dashboard that says 1.2.2 is outdated and that you need to click to update.  After you click it updates the client for you.

[capoeira]

News Update : Dear everyone - please update your nxt client to the new release NRS v1.2.3 before block 213,000.

I tried downloading the latest nxt client from http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/

but it only gives v1.2.2, not the new release NRS v1.2.3

When will the new release NRS v1.2.3 be available?

It's available now.  Once you download the client you'll see a red box in the Dashboard that says 1.2.2 is outdated and that you need to click to update.  After you click it updates the client for you.

funny, i'm on 1.2.3 and it says 1.2.4 is available.....i use the update function but it says hash is diferent, BUT it's actualy the same...will start it manualy

[Yuzu]

News Update : Dear everyone - please update your nxt client to the new release NRS v1.2.3 before block 213,000.

I tried downloading the latest nxt client from http://nxtra.org/nxt-wallet/

but it only gives v1.2.2, not the new release NRS v1.2.3

When will the new release NRS v1.2.3 be available?

It's available now.  Once you download the client you'll see a red box in the Dashboard that says 1.2.2 is outdated and that you need to click to update.  After you click it updates the client for you.

funny, i'm on 1.2.3 and it says 1.2.4 is available.....i use the update function but it says hash is diferent, BUT it's actualy the same...will start it manualy

Huh.  Mine does now, too.  It says 1.2.3 is outdated.  I'm going to check the NXT forum.

Update:  I updated to 1.2.4 with no issues.  No problems with my Ora or my NXT.  I had no idea there was an update.  I'm assuming we all need to update our clients.

[DarkhorseofNxt]

News Update : Dear everyone - please update your nxt client to the new release NRS v1.2.3 before block 213,000.

What if someone does not update? Will they no longer be able to trade on the distributed asset exchange?

New feature is being rolled out in block 213,000. You should be able to trade if you are using 1.6 version. best to update to 1.2.3 or 1.2.4 (will be released later). There will be a fork.

The new Nxt client is now version 1.2.4. The link to download is as per the link below.

https://bitbucket.org/JeanLucPicard/nxt/downloads/nxt-client-1.2.4.zip

[Pentamon]

Sometimes, I daydream:

I think:
On the one side, there is Simcoin, a wonderful, dedicated, serious software developer, doing his thing alone. Methodical.
On the other side, there is Ora: a wonderful community of people, with no software. Developing a project plan. Methodical.
Could they get together?

That would be amazingly powerful...

And then I wake up.
Pentamon

(crosspost to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=561294.msg8322995#msg8322995)

[liyuxuanfc]

To the rhythm of the dead?
Can't look straight into the price low

[DarkhorseofNxt]

To the rhythm of the dead?
Can't look straight into the price low

I dont get you.

[Kora]

OK, so I've been reading the debate about what to do with remaining coins.

My first inclination is to save the coins for a rainy day, even at risk of being called a scam coin.  Yes, the premine issue is real, but anyone reading this forum will know that there is in fact no premine: for all intents and purposes, on release day when the coin actually becomes "real" and not just an NXT asset, we could match the total # of coins minted with the total # distributed.  Problem solved, entirely.  Then, any future coin creation would come from the staking mechanism.  Or, we could have a nominal premine, and release the total # of coins with that in mind.  Nothing says we have to release Ora with an unspent 50% or some such thing.

As for the heated issue of whether or not the next distribution should or should not include those who dumped their stakes, I would like to point out that this is a global system, and in the global economy, some ppl live in desperate circumstances.  I won't begrudge anyone who dumped, because 50 USD might feed them for a month.  Even if they dumped out of greed, I still wouldn't begrudge them, because I believe in free choice in free markets.  Anything else produces mischief that is far worse than the original greed that prompted the economic controls.

I'm not sure that the buyer is more angelic than the seller here, or more or less of a devil.  I could make the argument that those who bought from the dumpers are at fault, because they encouraged the dumpers to dump!  Should we penalize them?  But what of it?  That's the free market at work.  And I don't like this backdoor threat that "we know who the dumpers are, and can prevent them from getting a new stake".  Wow.  Listen to us.  That sounds ominous, and Orwellian.  Were that list in my hands, I would destroy it - without hesitation or remorse - before it destroyed me.

To me, there are no dumpers, only sellers.  And buyers.


Nevertheless, for the sake of peace, here are two ideas:

Idea #1:

Give the dumpers a future installment, and give the current Ora holders (even if they bought from a dumper and didn't have an original stake) their choice of a future installment or an instant payment.

This only penalizes the dumpers on a timescale, meaning you dumped your coins, so for the next distribution you won't get them until the coin releases, or until some strategic happenstance.  BUT you will still get them.  Meanwhile, those who didn't dump are free to participate in the free market as they see fit.  My expectation is if they didn't dump already, they are holders, but that might be proved wrong.

If it bothers ppl that stakeholders sell, then prevent them from selling at this point in time by restricting their ownership of the asset.

Idea #2:

Offer ALL stakeholders, original and current, their choice of:

a) 100k ora now, OR
b)  100k ora plus 50% simple interest at some point in the future.

Voila.  Those who want to hold get an incentive to take the "annuity" at "b".  Those who want to dump (or just want the Ora in their hands) can choose a, and get less Ora.
This could be done with any combination of reward amounts, such as half of 166k now OR the entire 166k in the future.



kind regards,
nio

Awesome post nio, thanks!

I think using nio's suggestions we can come up with a very good proposition that will please the vast majority of ORA'farians (original stakeholders and people who bought in later). I appreciated the valid point from some that past dumpers might dump any top-up en masse, and that *could* disadvantage ORA holders who bought in, but as nio has pointed out in his post, there's nothing to stop us distributing the 'top-up' coins at a much later date, and we could even do it in stages too to prevent a massive amount of coins hitting the market at the same time.

The key point is we have the option to decide the distribution scheme now, but delay the implementation until later (and maybe add other elements too) to avoid unnecessary market 'disturbances'.

With that said, I will present my final proposition for consideration. What to do with the left over stakes?

ORA distribution option: Kora - final
- Continue the distribution, but no more FREE stakes without contributing something
- Add new ways for people to get a stake that requires some 'action' on their part
- Make the 'action' required to get a stake serve a 'useful' purpose:
      - marketing (i.e. how to present ORA & ORA'farians to the world)
      - community building & 'bonding' (i.e. community members working together on projects)
      - community 'value statements' (i.e. charity program)
- Some suggestions for the 'actions' required to 'earn' a stake
      - Short film Competition (in development)
      - Short story competition (in development)
      - 'Logo bombing' televised events (in development)

I am not in favour of giving original stakeholders more FREE ORA, but I most definitely encourage everyone to engage in future actions to 'earn' more ORA. Enter the Short Film & multimedia competition, 'Logo bomb' an event, write a short story etc

- The range of possible 'actions' we could implement for people to earn an ORA stake are limitless
- The 'action' requirement makes sockpuppet chasing irrelevant, people can 'earn' multiple stakes!!
- Organising these stake earning activities will 'bond' us together into a community much better than any other method I can think of
- They will be fun, and they can go on for as long nio is in dev mode

While ORA is in development what will we do as a community if the distribution ends soon? That is a big danger IMO. Continuing the distribution is the 'glue' that will keep 'US' together! Without community 'glue' ORA will die!

Don't waste the left over stakes! Use them to achieve goals & objectives, and make statements about what ORA is all about!

ORA is long term!
ORA is about people!
ORA is smart!
ORA is fun!
ORA is different!

OK folks, that's my pitch for the hearts & minds

[Kora]

In my previous post I mentioned a suggestion that we could give everyone who "Logo bombs" a televised event with an ORA logo a FREE/earnt stake.

fragORA found this great example of a bitcoin 'Logo bomb' - this guys deserves recognition If he was holding up an ORA logo then he'd be eligible for an ORA stake under my proposed distribution scheme.

[DarkhorseofNxt]

OK, so I've been reading the debate about what to do with remaining coins.

My first inclination is to save the coins for a rainy day, even at risk of being called a scam coin.  Yes, the premine issue is real, but anyone reading this forum will know that there is in fact no premine: for all intents and purposes, on release day when the coin actually becomes "real" and not just an NXT asset, we could match the total # of coins minted with the total # distributed.  Problem solved, entirely.  Then, any future coin creation would come from the staking mechanism.  Or, we could have a nominal premine, and release the total # of coins with that in mind.  Nothing says we have to release Ora with an unspent 50% or some such thing.

As for the heated issue of whether or not the next distribution should or should not include those who dumped their stakes, I would like to point out that this is a global system, and in the global economy, some ppl live in desperate circumstances.  I won't begrudge anyone who dumped, because 50 USD might feed them for a month.  Even if they dumped out of greed, I still wouldn't begrudge them, because I believe in free choice in free markets.  Anything else produces mischief that is far worse than the original greed that prompted the economic controls.

I'm not sure that the buyer is more angelic than the seller here, or more or less of a devil.  I could make the argument that those who bought from the dumpers are at fault, because they encouraged the dumpers to dump!  Should we penalize them?  But what of it?  That's the free market at work.  And I don't like this backdoor threat that "we know who the dumpers are, and can prevent them from getting a new stake".  Wow.  Listen to us.  That sounds ominous, and Orwellian.  Were that list in my hands, I would destroy it - without hesitation or remorse - before it destroyed me.

To me, there are no dumpers, only sellers.  And buyers.


Nevertheless, for the sake of peace, here are two ideas:

Idea #1:

Give the dumpers a future installment, and give the current Ora holders (even if they bought from a dumper and didn't have an original stake) their choice of a future installment or an instant payment.

This only penalizes the dumpers on a timescale, meaning you dumped your coins, so for the next distribution you won't get them until the coin releases, or until some strategic happenstance.  BUT you will still get them.  Meanwhile, those who didn't dump are free to participate in the free market as they see fit.  My expectation is if they didn't dump already, they are holders, but that might be proved wrong.

If it bothers ppl that stakeholders sell, then prevent them from selling at this point in time by restricting their ownership of the asset.

Idea #2:

Offer ALL stakeholders, original and current, their choice of:

a) 100k ora now, OR
b)  100k ora plus 50% simple interest at some point in the future.

Voila.  Those who want to hold get an incentive to take the "annuity" at "b".  Those who want to dump (or just want the Ora in their hands) can choose a, and get less Ora.
This could be done with any combination of reward amounts, such as half of 166k now OR the entire 166k in the future.



kind regards,
nio

Awesome post nio, thanks!

I think using nio's suggestions we can come up with a very good proposition that will please the vast majority of ORA'farians (original stakeholders and people who bought in later). I appreciated the valid point from some that past dumpers might dump any top-up en masse, and that *could* disadvantage ORA holders who bought in, but as nio has pointed out in his post, there's nothing to stop us distributing the 'top-up' coins at a much later date, and we could even do it in stages too to prevent a massive amount of coins hitting the market at the same time.

The key point is we have the option to decide the distribution scheme now, but delay the implementation until later (and maybe add other elements too) to avoid unnecessary market 'disturbances'.

With that said, I will present my final proposition for consideration. What to do with the left over stakes?

ORA distribution option: Kora - final
- Continue the distribution, but no more FREE stakes without contributing something
- Add new ways for people to get a stake that requires some 'action' on their part
- Make the 'action' required to get a stake serve a 'useful' purpose:
      - marketing (i.e. how to present ORA & ORA'farians to the world)
      - community building & 'bonding' (i.e. community members working together on projects)
      - community 'value statements' (i.e. charity program)
- Some suggestions for the 'actions' required to 'earn' a stake
      - Short film Competition (in development)
      - Short story competition (in development)
      - 'Logo bombing' televised events (in development)

I am not in favour of giving original stakeholders more FREE ORA, but I most definitely encourage everyone to engage in future actions to 'earn' more ORA. Enter the Short Film & multimedia competition, 'Logo bomb' an event, write a short story etc

- The range of possible 'actions' we could implement for people to earn an ORA stake are limitless
- The 'action' requirement makes sockpuppet chasing irrelevant, people can 'earn' multiple stakes!!
- Organising these stake earning activities will 'bond' us together into a community much better than any other method I can think of
- They will be fun, and they can go on for as long nio is in dev mode

While ORA is in development what will we do as a community if the distribution ends soon? That is a big danger IMO. Continuing the distribution is the 'glue' that will keep 'US' together! Without community 'glue' ORA will die!

Don't waste the left over stakes! Use them to achieve goals & objectives, and make statements about what ORA is all about!

ORA is long term!
ORA is about people!
ORA is smart!
ORA is fun!
ORA is different!

OK folks, that's my pitch for the hearts & minds

To make sure i am reading correctly, no more stakes distributed unless stake is "earned" by performing an "acttion" stated above?

[Hashbender]

I just want to pause for a moment, and ponder: You can buy Ora, in more than one place?
How amazing is that!

Think about it: what are you buying, or selling, if you trade Ora right now?

It could be that the perceived value of Ora is largely found in the future possibilities: the things that we will be able to do, once Ora software is 'hatched'...

... however it can also be argued that the current value of Ora is the community that is forming it.

To my way of thinking, I would want to make that starfish community grow past us bitcointalk crowd, and for that purpose it might be very handy to have some stakes waiting the newcomers, in the future. The option of welcoming new Ora stakeholders in the future, would disappear if we burned the leftover stakes, or if we handed them out now.

I trust that these arguments around the leftovers will be going on for a while. It is good so.

In the meantime, we all have work to do: We need to head over to the Ora Logo thread, and start thinking about which logo you want to vote for. Which one captures what Ora means to you?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=697958.0

You can vote early, if you want. This is done in the logo thread, read the instructions, please. You need to give three options, number one to three.  The design submissions have one week left, then there are two weeks of voting. By the end of the month, we will have a logo.

This process will also tell us how many take an interest and want to participate in Ora. So go vote!

Pentamon

Well this is intriguing. People don't really believe in long term projects. Sure, there are some of them which can maybe "be" a future success, but as of today, most of the crypto market is red down the stairs.

[Kora]

In my 'stump speech' above to try and convince you all to vote to continue the distribution, I mentioned we can use the left over stakes to make a 'values statement' about ORA.

A couple of days ago a dear friend of mine finally succumbed to cancer, and even though I knew it was coming, it was still a shock when I got the news, and my heart has been heavy ever since with sadness. Then I opened my yahoo mail today and saw this 'advert'



When I looked at that little boys smile I felt great to be alive again. I don't know what he's holding, but it's obviously something special to him.

How can we give some ORA stakes to children like Jorge? It must be possible!

[zhile11911]

In my 'stump speech' above to try and convince you all to vote to continue the distribution, I mentioned we can use the left over stakes to make a 'values statement' about ORA.

A couple of days ago a dear friend of mine finally succumbed to cancer, and even though I knew it was coming, it was still a shock when I got the news, and my heart has been heavy ever since with sadness. Then I opened my yahoo mail today and saw this 'advert'



When I looked at that little boys smile I felt great to be alive again. I don't know what he's holding, but it's obviously something special to him.

How can we give some ORA stakes to children like Jorge? It must be possible!

 yes, we can pledge some ORA stake for charity.

[Kora]

OK, so I've been reading the debate about what to do with remaining coins.

My first inclination is to save the coins for a rainy day, even at risk of being called a scam coin.  Yes, the premine issue is real, but anyone reading this forum will know that there is in fact no premine: for all intents and purposes, on release day when the coin actually becomes "real" and not just an NXT asset, we could match the total # of coins minted with the total # distributed.  Problem solved, entirely.  Then, any future coin creation would come from the staking mechanism.  Or, we could have a nominal premine, and release the total # of coins with that in mind.  Nothing says we have to release Ora with an unspent 50% or some such thing.

As for the heated issue of whether or not the next distribution should or should not include those who dumped their stakes, I would like to point out that this is a global system, and in the global economy, some ppl live in desperate circumstances.  I won't begrudge anyone who dumped, because 50 USD might feed them for a month.  Even if they dumped out of greed, I still wouldn't begrudge them, because I believe in free choice in free markets.  Anything else produces mischief that is far worse than the original greed that prompted the economic controls.

I'm not sure that the buyer is more angelic than the seller here, or more or less of a devil.  I could make the argument that those who bought from the dumpers are at fault, because they encouraged the dumpers to dump!  Should we penalize them?  But what of it?  That's the free market at work.  And I don't like this backdoor threat that "we know who the dumpers are, and can prevent them from getting a new stake".  Wow.  Listen to us.  That sounds ominous, and Orwellian.  Were that list in my hands, I would destroy it - without hesitation or remorse - before it destroyed me.

To me, there are no dumpers, only sellers.  And buyers.


Nevertheless, for the sake of peace, here are two ideas:

Idea #1:

Give the dumpers a future installment, and give the current Ora holders (even if they bought from a dumper and didn't have an original stake) their choice of a future installment or an instant payment.

This only penalizes the dumpers on a timescale, meaning you dumped your coins, so for the next distribution you won't get them until the coin releases, or until some strategic happenstance.  BUT you will still get them.  Meanwhile, those who didn't dump are free to participate in the free market as they see fit.  My expectation is if they didn't dump already, they are holders, but that might be proved wrong.

If it bothers ppl that stakeholders sell, then prevent them from selling at this point in time by restricting their ownership of the asset.

Idea #2:

Offer ALL stakeholders, original and current, their choice of:

a) 100k ora now, OR
b)  100k ora plus 50% simple interest at some point in the future.

Voila.  Those who want to hold get an incentive to take the "annuity" at "b".  Those who want to dump (or just want the Ora in their hands) can choose a, and get less Ora.
This could be done with any combination of reward amounts, such as half of 166k now OR the entire 166k in the future.



kind regards,
nio

Awesome post nio, thanks!

I think using nio's suggestions we can come up with a very good proposition that will please the vast majority of ORA'farians (original stakeholders and people who bought in later). I appreciated the valid point from some that past dumpers might dump any top-up en masse, and that *could* disadvantage ORA holders who bought in, but as nio has pointed out in his post, there's nothing to stop us distributing the 'top-up' coins at a much later date, and we could even do it in stages too to prevent a massive amount of coins hitting the market at the same time.

The key point is we have the option to decide the distribution scheme now, but delay the implementation until later (and maybe add other elements too) to avoid unnecessary market 'disturbances'.

With that said, I will present my final proposition for consideration. What to do with the left over stakes?

ORA distribution option: Kora - final
- Continue the distribution, but no more FREE stakes without contributing something
- Add new ways for people to get a stake that requires some 'action' on their part
- Make the 'action' required to get a stake serve a 'useful' purpose:
      - marketing (i.e. how to present ORA & ORA'farians to the world)
      - community building & 'bonding' (i.e. community members working together on projects)
      - community 'value statements' (i.e. charity program)
- Some suggestions for the 'actions' required to 'earn' a stake
      - Short film Competition (in development)
      - Short story competition (in development)
      - 'Logo bombing' televised events (in development)

I am not in favour of giving original stakeholders more FREE ORA, but I most definitely encourage everyone to engage in future actions to 'earn' more ORA. Enter the Short Film & multimedia competition, 'Logo bomb' an event, write a short story etc

- The range of possible 'actions' we could implement for people to earn an ORA stake are limitless
- The 'action' requirement makes sockpuppet chasing irrelevant, people can 'earn' multiple stakes!!
- Organising these stake earning activities will 'bond' us together into a community much better than any other method I can think of
- They will be fun, and they can go on for as long nio is in dev mode

While ORA is in development what will we do as a community if the distribution ends soon? That is a big danger IMO. Continuing the distribution is the 'glue' that will keep 'US' together! Without community 'glue' ORA will die!

Don't waste the left over stakes! Use them to achieve goals & objectives, and make statements about what ORA is all about!

ORA is long term!
ORA is about people!
ORA is smart!
ORA is fun!
ORA is different!

OK folks, that's my pitch for the hearts & minds

To make sure i am reading correctly, no more stakes distributed unless stake is "earned" by performing an "acttion" stated above?

They're my suggestions, but there would be many others too, but that's my preferred option that I'd like to add to the voting options to be considered. We keep distributing stakes with out requiring a monetary payment, but we require some form of 'useful' contribution.

"Proof-of-Useful-Action" - those are just some of my suggested actions

[DarkhorseofNxt]

In my 'stump speech' above to try and convince you all to vote to continue the distribution, I mentioned we can use the left over stakes to make a 'values statement' about ORA.

A couple of days ago a dear friend of mine finally succumbed to cancer, and even though I knew it was coming, it was still a shock when I got the news, and my heart has been heavy ever since with sadness. Then I opened my yahoo mail today and saw this 'advert'



When I looked at that little boys smile I felt great to be alive again. I don't know what he's holding, but it's obviously something special to him.

How can we give some ORA stakes to children like Jorge? It must be possible!

@ Kora,

Chaos514 and me are already working on this. I would like to ask Chaos514's permission to publish our communication here.

[megashira1]

When and where is this vote going to be taking place.

[DarkhorseofNxt]

When and where is this vote going to be taking place.

Option 1 : Nxt Voting. (To be included in nxt client version.1 4)
Option 2 : to be decided.