rpietila Altcoin Observer

[vuduchyld]

The great Warren Buffet says that when one is investing, one can't strike out looking.  One can only strike out swinging.

You never make a bad decisions by NOT investing, only by investing in something that doesn't, at worst, preserve capital.

I'm happy to take a strike looking at Supernet.  I won't take a swinging strike.  As I analyze what I can analyze, there are too many bits and pieces I feel like I can't see clearly enough.

I wish everybody involved all the success in the world and I do not consider cryptos a zero-sum game.  If Supernet brings the early investors a 100x return, I won't begrudge them their success at all.  I'll keep taking my shots where I see 'em.

[kennyP]

The great Warren Buffet says that when one is investing, one can't strike out looking.  One can only strike out swinging.

You never make a bad decisions by NOT investing, only by investing in something that doesn't, at worst, preserve capital.

I'm happy to take a strike looking at Supernet.  I won't take a swinging strike.  As I analyze what I can analyze, there are too many bits and pieces I feel like I can't see clearly enough.

I wish everybody involved all the success in the world and I do not consider cryptos a zero-sum game.  If Supernet brings the early investors a 100x return, I won't begrudge them their success at all.  I'll keep taking my shots where I see 'em.

Hate to go against the great WB, but I disagree on that. In the last year I have read of at least two believable accounts of people who saw NXT, and were ready to invest 100 bucks USD, but didn't. One guy read a critical post and thought it was a scam, the other forgot about it, and missed the deadline. The guy who forgot said he planned to invest the 100 USD, so he would have been a 50 Million NXT'er. Those guys would disagree with Buffet, sometimes not investing can be very painful. I felt so bad for those two guys, especially the guy who forgot to come back, his post haunted me for a while.

[vuduchyld]

The great Warren Buffet says that when one is investing, one can't strike out looking.  One can only strike out swinging.

You never make a bad decisions by NOT investing, only by investing in something that doesn't, at worst, preserve capital.

I'm happy to take a strike looking at Supernet.  I won't take a swinging strike.  As I analyze what I can analyze, there are too many bits and pieces I feel like I can't see clearly enough.

I wish everybody involved all the success in the world and I do not consider cryptos a zero-sum game.  If Supernet brings the early investors a 100x return, I won't begrudge them their success at all.  I'll keep taking my shots where I see 'em.

Hate to go against the great WB, but I disagree on that. In the last year I have read of at least two believable accounts of people who saw NXT, and were ready to invest 100 bucks USD, but didn't. One guy read a critical post and thought it was a scam, the other forgot about it, and missed the deadline. The guy who forgot said he planned to invest the 100 USD, so he would have been a 50 Million NXT'er. Those guys would disagree with Buffet, sometimes not investing can be very painful. I felt so bad for those two guys, especially the guy who forgot to come back, his post haunted me for a while.

Well, I have to go with the Buddhist view, which states that the root of all suffering is attachment.

Those guys weren't actually hurt by something that didn't happen.  They simply did not benefit from it because it didn't happen.  I think it is akin to saying that they suffer because they failed to benefit.  If that is the case, they might as well choose to suffer because they don't look like Brad Pitt and can't make money being a movie star...or they aren't athletic enough to play pro sports...or whatever.

There is always always always another opportunity.

[kennyP]

The great Warren Buffet says that when one is investing, one can't strike out looking.  One can only strike out swinging.

You never make a bad decisions by NOT investing, only by investing in something that doesn't, at worst, preserve capital.

I'm happy to take a strike looking at Supernet.  I won't take a swinging strike.  As I analyze what I can analyze, there are too many bits and pieces I feel like I can't see clearly enough.

I wish everybody involved all the success in the world and I do not consider cryptos a zero-sum game.  If Supernet brings the early investors a 100x return, I won't begrudge them their success at all.  I'll keep taking my shots where I see 'em.

Hate to go against the great WB, but I disagree on that. In the last year I have read of at least two believable accounts of people who saw NXT, and were ready to invest 100 bucks USD, but didn't. One guy read a critical post and thought it was a scam, the other forgot about it, and missed the deadline. The guy who forgot said he planned to invest the 100 USD, so he would have been a 50 Million NXT'er. Those guys would disagree with Buffet, sometimes not investing can be very painful. I felt so bad for those two guys, especially the guy who forgot to come back, his post haunted me for a while.

Well, I have to go with the Buddhist view, which states that the root of all suffering is attachment.

Those guys weren't actually hurt by something that didn't happen.  They simply did not benefit from it because it didn't happen.  I think it is akin to saying that they suffer because they failed to benefit.  If that is the case, they might as well choose to suffer because they don't look like Brad Pitt and can't make money being a movie star...or they aren't athletic enough to play pro sports...or whatever.

There is always always always another opportunity.

Interesting interpretation, I do agree that lost opportunities can lead to unknown, and sometimes positive consequences. I got scammed on a feathercoin trade for a large sum when it was the latest hot thing (wow, that was a strange time), but that experience has helped me many times since. I invested in monero very early and got a great stack, and part of my motivation was to act early. With the feathercoin thing I sat back and didn't buy, then when I panicked as the price went up I let my guard down and traded with a scum bag offering a 'good deal'. I always decide early, and act fast.

[Majormax]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

[Its About Sharing]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

There are some large bag holders in pretty much all the cryptos. Is it roger Ver or ? That has around 300'000?
Think of the volume on exchanges and what would happen if large holders started dumping? What if Satoshi wanted to start dumping?

Not even saying it is bad as it would help to put BTC in more peoples hands but would crush the price, at least until demand met the supply.

The great thing is that most of BTC's bag holders seem to be Libertarians and are interested in making the world a better place. 

Its about sharing

[rpietila]

A) It is a con.
B) It is not a con.

So why not collect proof instead of looking to FUD, you don't need to look like an idiot to make a point. Remember the proof is in the pudding, and right now all you have is theoretical ingredients for a pudding you've been dreaming up.

It is not necessary to prove that a random person in the world is a scammer, in order to be suspicious, and to avoid possibly getting scammed.

I don't get paid for it, but there are people in the world who do, they evaluate other people's creditworthiness. I know something about the process and James fails glaringly. Just stating what I know (that he is not creditworthy due to sky-high risk) is not that I hate him, or that I have lost my mind, or credibility, or anything. Actually I am quite tired having to write this. This is eating the publicity that should be in the real, factual, big issue of this month in Altcoinworld - the MEW (temporary name).

[Este Nuno]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

Public forum? See the Washington Post article!

It's not like this is a secret! Come on. It's always been like this and it will always be like this. There is nothing anyone can do.

[sonoIO]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

It does sounds like openly inviting Murphy to join the party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law

[Este Nuno]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

It does sounds like openly inviting Murphy to join the party

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murphy%27s_law

Better to be honest and upfront about it imo.

I think it's commendable that someone like rpietila is willing to be quoted in places like the Washington Post saying such things. It's like the opposite of what the Dogecoin people did. They sold a false fantasy world to people who had no understanding of economics or the crypto world in general. And that's why so many people resent a lot of those who pushed people in to Dogecoin so hard.

I don't know any exact numbers, but the amount of coins that groups like the Bitinstant four, |)ruid and associates, and other orginial stake holders have is a seven figure number almost certainly. I remember rpietila used to do research relating to this in an attempt to rank people based on their BTC holdings. I'm not sure if he's still interested in that now though.

[DieJohnny]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

Public forum? See the Washington Post article!

It's not like this is a secret! Come on. It's always been like this and it will always be like this. There is nothing anyone can do.

The point is not that a few people can impact the price. The point is that old-holders are arrogant enough to use that impact as a threat on the community in general, and worse that anyone actually listens to them. Yes, the price would tank if big holders dumped. But it is those very holders that have created a cloud over Bitcoin. Old holders need to dump so we can get rid of their egos and their BS and their manipulation. Bitcoin will be just fine and would almost certainly explode shortly thereafter.

I have also said elsewhere that the Satoshi coins are completely ignored by everyone these days. They represent the single biggest problem for Bitcoin, if Satoshi is alive he is doing the worst he possibly can for Bitcoin by keeping those coins as they are. He should give away 95% of them to all active addresses and sell the rest right away.

Should the Bitcoin org be doing everything it can right now to stifle the competition???, absoFinglutely. But it should be doing so by doing its own innovation.

[Este Nuno]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

Public forum? See the Washington Post article!

It's not like this is a secret! Come on. It's always been like this and it will always be like this. There is nothing anyone can do.

The point is not that a few people can impact the price. The point is that old-holders are arrogant enough to use that impact as a threat on the community in general, and worse that anyone actually listens to them. Yes, the price would tank if big holders dumped. But it is those very holders that have created a cloud over Bitcoin. Old holders need to dump so we can get rid of their egos and their BS and their manipulation. Bitcoin will be just fine and would almost certainly explode shortly thereafter.

I have also said elsewhere that the Satoshi coins are completely ignored by everyone these days. They represent the single biggest problem for Bitcoin, if Satoshi is alive he is doing the worst he possibly can for Bitcoin by keeping those coins as they are. He should give away 95% of them to all active addresses and sell the rest right away.

Should the Bitcoin org be doing everything it can right now to stifle the competition???, absoFinglutely. But it should be doing so by doing its own innovation.

Yes, the Satoshi coins are a big problem for Bitcoin's future. Having question marks surrounding such a large amount of the money supply effectively limits the growth potential with regard to serious investors like banks and governments. People like to ignore that for now, but eventually questions will be asked.

Bitcoin doesn't view itself in any sort of competition. The organizations and people that currently run Bitcoin collectively do not see Bitcoin as a business obviously, nor should they really. What effect that will have on Bitcoin in the long run remains to be seen. The market will decide all of that. But don't expect much innovation from Bitcoin. Bitcoin will probably just end up laying the groundwork for whatever currencies succeed in the long run. It will probably always hold some value unless there is some major technical issue or attacks.

[coinits]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.

I have always held that old holders have to divest theirs coins for Bitcoin to move forward, I think your statement makes me certain of that sentiment now.

Please sell your stash asap so we can all move along.

Yes...the suggestion that there is a 'group' of holders 'supporting' the price (or able to influence it) might have held water in 2011, but not now.

What a strange thing to say: even if it was true, revealing it on a public forum would be foolish and reckless.

Public forum? See the Washington Post article!

It's not like this is a secret! Come on. It's always been like this and it will always be like this. There is nothing anyone can do.

The point is not that a few people can impact the price. The point is that old-holders are arrogant enough to use that impact as a threat on the community in general, and worse that anyone actually listens to them. Yes, the price would tank if big holders dumped. But it is those very holders that have created a cloud over Bitcoin. Old holders need to dump so we can get rid of their egos and their BS and their manipulation. Bitcoin will be just fine and would almost certainly explode shortly thereafter.

I have also said elsewhere that the Satoshi coins are completely ignored by everyone these days. They represent the single biggest problem for Bitcoin, if Satoshi is alive he is doing the worst he possibly can for Bitcoin by keeping those coins as they are. He should give away 95% of them to all active addresses and sell the rest right away.

Should the Bitcoin org be doing everything it can right now to stifle the competition???, absoFinglutely. But it should be doing so by doing its own innovation.

Yes, the Satoshi coins are a big problem for Bitcoin's future. Having question marks surrounding such a large amount of the money supply effectively limits the growth potential with regard to serious investors like banks and governments. People like to ignore that for now, but eventually questions will be asked.

Bitcoin doesn't view itself in any sort of competition. The organizations and people that currently run Bitcoin collectively do not see Bitcoin as a business obviously. What effect that will have on Bitcoin in the long run remains to be seen. The market will decide all of that. But don't expect much innovation from Bitcoin.

Satoshi needs to come out of the damn shadows and contribute to his baby. Hiding and lurking is really unacceptable behavior. If he does not want to be a part of the process going forward then I will become Satoshi and he can give me his coins. See under my name for the btc address Satoshi. I'm calling you out!

[Anotheranonlol]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.
 

Prisoners dilemma

It's a not so thinly veiled threat. In short;  What is being alluded to is since XMR camp is composed of large BTC holders, if certain competing CN groups attempt to attack XMR, the XMR camp will strike back by driving the value of BTC down (which generally crashes the value of all alts) , not to mention your 'unrealised' gains in fiat from whatever BTC you might happen to own.

[DieJohnny]

Bitcoin will probably just end up laying the groundwork for whatever currencies succeed in the long run. It will probably always hold some value unless there is some major technical issue or attacks.

Well I definitely hold this sentiment lately, however, I am not so certain anything can dig into Bitcoin's mainstream momentum.

There are simply too many crypto choices and too many zealot communities to filter.

Every crypto has their magic tech, their super dev, their clever marketing, their awesome community, their fair launch, blah blah blah blah blah. It is a fun time to live in this wild west of digital money, but in the end picking a winner feels like heading to the track for the weekend. I doubt the actuall winner will have all of the attributes we may think you need to succeed.

[DieJohnny]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.
 

Prisoners dilemma

It's a not so thinly veiled threat. In short;  What is being alluded to is since XMR camp is composed of large BTC holders, if certain competing CN groups attempt to attack XMR, the XMR camp will strike back by driving the value of BTC down (which generally crashes the value of all alts) , not to mention your 'unrealised' gains in fiat from whatever BTC you might happen to own.

Does anyone really believe that there are "leading threat" alt coins??? and that XMR is a contender? I must have missed something the last few months because alt coins seem to have evolved from a speculative dream land to viable overthrow-bitcoin strategy. For me, it all smells of outsized egos to me, similar to the smell of rotten eggs.

I would say that if alt coins have a prayer, someone should shoot all of them but one.

[shojayxt]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Don't flatter yourself.  You don't have as much influence as you think.

[Este Nuno]

Now wonder who have interest to weaken both XMR and BBR communities by playing them off against each other...

It is a kiss of DEATH to Bitcoin if some "there" try to quench the "competition".

The Monero camp is composed of large Bitcoin holders and if we collectively withdraw our support, at this point it means a steep dive for Bitcoin.

I did not even mention the possibility that other honest bitcoiners might also want to switch allegiance. I know there are many. Bitcoin attracts scammers but also honest people.

Seriously...... I am trying to understand what you are saying, but it seems you are suggesting that a few big bitcoin holders can collectively tank Bitcoin. If this is the case, then Bitcoin is the biggest scam ever.
 

Prisoners dilemma

It's a not so thinly veiled threat. In short;  What is being alluded to is since XMR camp is composed of large BTC holders, if certain competing CN groups attempt to attack XMR, the XMR camp will strike back by driving the value of BTC down (which generally crashes the value of all alts) , not to mention your 'unrealised' gains in fiat from whatever BTC you might happen to own.

I'm curious as to which large BTC holders are invested in to XMR other than the ones we know of from this thread?

[Anotheranonlol]

I'm curious as to which large BTC holders are invested in to XMR other than the ones we know of from this thread?

None that I know of. But I'm sure there's a few.  I guess the only way to confirm this would be a signed message followed by a specific XMR transaction. Otherwise we will just have to take the mans word.

OP has predicted a 1000x fiat-denominated gain in Monero (equates to a ~35 billion dollar market cap after all supply is minted) here, so it wouldn't surprise me that quite a few people are attracted and have thrown a few btc down, especially after the recent price-movements with BTC.

[DieJohnny]

OP has predicted a 1000x fiat-denominated gain in Monero (equates to a ~35 billion dollar market cap after all supply is minted) here, so it wouldn't surprise me that quite a few people are attracted and have thrown a few btc down, especially after the recent price-movements with BTC.

Monero is differentiated from other fantasmic Alt coins by the following: