rpietila Altcoin Observer

[fluffypony]

The clarification is much appreciated.  My understanding is that BBR ring sig pruning linearly reduces blockchain bloat, but is not the holy grail of transaction pruning required for logarithmic bloat reduction of the kind found in XCN's mini-blockchain.

To be clear, ring sig pruning prevents a little bit of bloat, while transaction pruning removes substantial accumulated bloat.

Also, 'dust' is the atomic unit of 'bloat.'

Did I get that right?  What do I win?  

Spot on. Linear reductions are easy. Logarithmic are significantly harder. For your efforts you get a whale.

In CryptoNote coins ring signature is 60-90% of transaction size. With pruning ring signatures you get 60-90% smaller blockchain, compared with other cryptonote coins, you win only this here.

Yes, that is a correct example of linear. You get a whale too!

PS. In your next botnet / cryptocurrency / library project please do Star Wars references, they're a great deal more palatable than the Futurama references. And then that way you can say "I love you" and I can say "I know"

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[smooth]

Also, 'dust' is the atomic unit of 'bloat.'

Did I get that right?

No you didn't.

Dust refers to very small outputs that are either unspendable by network rules or uneconomical to spend since transaction fees would be too high.

Bloat means, well, pretty much whatever the person saying it doesn't think is a good use of space.

[SlipperySlope]

Here is the 1-day resolution chart of Litecoin from BTC-e. Ignore the June 30 candle whose price action was not present on the more liquid Chinese exchanges that day. I believe that litecoin is possibly reversing trend and could test resistance near $7, especially if bitcoin prices have reversed trend and rally for some days. On the other hand, if litecoin does not rally towards $7, a dampened oscillation pattern suggest prices converging in a few days at $5,50.

[SlipperySlope]

Here is the one-day resolution price chart for dogecoin vs Chinese Yuan from the Bter exchange. The last green candle suggests the beginning of a trend reversal but it is not as convincing yet as the equivalent litecoin chart.

[drawingthesun]

I'm not sure how true this is, it seems like coinbase is doing basic level bitcoin transaction tracking. This is perhaps a real world example of how Monero is superior to Bitcoin.

http://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/2dxuqw/be_careful_seals_users_coinbase_has_blocked_me/

[vuduchyld]

We've had a big move up in the last 30 or so hours.  That doesn't surprise anybody who trades alts.  How does your portfolio compare with the market as a whole?

Here's a little update on the indexes I've been tracking.  

Index 1: cap-weighted, includes all cryptos except BTC was 61.92 30 hours ago, now at 72.75
Index 2: cap-weighted, includes all cryptos except BTC and LTC was 69.88 30 hours ago, now at 77.88

(LTC is still dragging down Index 1, but it has recovered with a little more strength as of right now)

Index 3: cap-weighted, includes a basket of 31 NON-LTC cryptos selected by cap/volume metrics was 63.86, now at 74.03
Index 4: cap-weighted, includes the basket of 31 PLUS LTC was 58.31, now at 70.47

(I still think Index 3 is actually the closest to what I'm trying to accomplish, which is to judge the general movement of the alt market as a whole.  REALLY interesting, IMO, to note that LTC dragged index 4 lower.  But the recovery of LTC didn't mean that index 4 has recovered stronger, as we found with Index 1 compared to Index 2.  My theory is that this justifies the basket selection as a good arbiter of alt direction.)

Index 5: price-weighted version of Index 3 was 56.01, now at 80.79
Index 6: price-weighted version of Index 4 was 54.72, now at 77.20

(Dow Jones is price-weighted.  S&P, Russell, most others are cap weighted.  I just set these up to see if there would be much difference.  Again, LTC provides downward weight.  Looks like these indexes are also more volatile.)

Meta index is 75.15.  This contains elements of all above.  

TL:DR If your alt portfolio is anything like the alt market as a whole, you may have been down 40%.  As of now, you're probably down 25%. If you're doing worse, you might either own LTC or you might be holding some of the alts that aren't in the top 50 in market cap, as they seem to be performing just a little bit worse.

[SlipperySlope]

We've had a big move up in the last 30 or so hours.  That doesn't surprise anybody who trades alts.  How does your portfolio compare with the market as a whole?

Just curious, do you have any data on proof-of-work coins versus those which cannot be mined, e.g. pure proof-of-stake coins?

[vuduchyld]

We've had a big move up in the last 30 or so hours.  That doesn't surprise anybody who trades alts.  How does your portfolio compare with the market as a whole?

Just curious, do you have any data on proof-of-work coins versus those which cannot be mined, e.g. pure proof-of-stake coins?

I sure don't, but that is a very, very interesting concept.  I like it.

I'm getting some help from another forum member to put together a little minimum viable product model for this info, just to see if people want it.  (Not sure if he wants to be revealed, so I won't for now.) As a trader, I sure as hell do.  It has driven me crazy that there isn't anything good out there.

I'd think that it would be very informative to look at PoW and PoS indexes.  I think we'll probably have to cut back, for example, by eliminating the price-weighted indexes above, possibly.  Let me do a little poking around.  I might be able to look at PoW vs. PoS in the history I've got saved.

[AlexGR]

Litmus Test for Software Excellence

Driven by the desire to use his or her own creation, is often the genesis of the excellent software successes.

Who involved with any of the coins discussed here is leading the development because of their personal intense desire to use certain features that are not available in any other coin? How much of their life is involved every day in using these features?

From this, I bet we can determine which if any coins have any chance of succeeding big time.

As a sidenote since you are big into IP obfuscation improvement:

Evan is planning to build an IP obfuscation network with the masternodes of DRKcoin, when work with DarkSend is complete... DarkTor or something. You might want to help with the specifications or provide feedback (?). You are good at nailing all those "oh that won't work" issues so that Evan will have to find the workarounds He's still working on DarkSend for now, but work will commence in a month or two for the DarkTor, from what I understand.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-august-19-2014.2086/

...he also had a proposed plan for the IP obfuscation aspect of DarkSend posted here:

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-july-30th.1924/

[aminorex]

If you're tired of holding XMR, there's 35k of liquidity at the top of the book on polo right now

EDIT: well, i guess there just aren't any more XMR for sale at this price.  poor bidder.  hope he's patient.

[klee]

Litmus Test for Software Excellence

Driven by the desire to use his or her own creation, is often the genesis of the excellent software successes.

Who involved with any of the coins discussed here is leading the development because of their personal intense desire to use certain features that are not available in any other coin? How much of their life is involved every day in using these features?

From this, I bet we can determine which if any coins have any chance of succeeding big time.

As a sidenote since you are big into IP obfuscation improvement:

Evan is planning to build an IP obfuscation network with the masternodes of DRKcoin, when work with DarkSend is complete... DarkTor or something. You might want to help with the specifications or provide feedback (?). You are good at nailing all those "oh that won't work" issues so that Evan will have to find the workarounds He's still working on DarkSend for now, but work will commence in a month or two for the DarkTor, from what I understand.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-august-19-2014.2086/

...he also had a proposed plan for the IP obfuscation aspect of DarkSend posted here:

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/development-update-july-30th.1924/

I would love to see him help too, especially when a fellow Greek ask for his help!

[crypto_zoidberg]

The clarification is much appreciated.  My understanding is that BBR ring sig pruning linearly reduces blockchain bloat, but is not the holy grail of transaction pruning required for logarithmic bloat reduction of the kind found in XCN's mini-blockchain.

To be clear, ring sig pruning prevents a little bit of bloat, while transaction pruning removes substantial accumulated bloat.

Also, 'dust' is the atomic unit of 'bloat.'

Did I get that right?  What do I win?  

Spot on. Linear reductions are easy. Logarithmic are significantly harder. For your efforts you get a whale.

In CryptoNote coins ring signature is 60-90% of transaction size. With pruning ring signatures you get 60-90% smaller blockchain, compared with other cryptonote coins, you win only this here.

Yes, that is a correct example of linear. You get a whale too!

PS. In your next botnet / cryptocurrency / library project please do Star Wars references, they're a great deal more palatable than the Futurama references. And then that way you can say "I love you" and I can say "I know"

You angry and blind. You trying to insult me, just because you have nothing to say in substance.

I have my own reasons of being anonymous, and people who i work with know exactly why, and this have no relations with your fantasy about botnets.

Sorry for off-topic.

[XNext]

Any talked about crypti?

[Este Nuno]

Hey. I'm not sure if this is true but apparently Ethereum might use something called DPOS (1). I haven't read the paper yet (2) but according to (1) vitalik agrees that proof of work is dead.

I believe this needs serious analysis in case they are right and onto something.

(1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740684

(2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=558316.0

SlipperySlope and anyone else who has an interest in PoS:

What are you opinions on this DPoS? Is this the holy grail that people have been waiting for? I thought Vitalik was a PoW hardliner. So I was a bit surprised to read this.

I shared a conference call with Daniel Larimer, listening to progress on DPOS and explaining my own work. I commend Dan and his team. My greatest interest in DPOS is not how they secure the blockchain but rather the Distributed Autonomous Corporation, which I believe can be implemented in my Texai cognitive architecture.

As I consider the design of my own work, I see less reliance on proof-of-stake as a method to secure the blockchain, and much more emphasis on traditional financial software techniques. CPOS will have a single mint agent that migrates over a network of paid full nodes, creating new blocks without effort, and whose results are verified by other agents that replicate and verify the canonical blockchain. My approach is much less complicated than reinventing Satoshi's design from scratch. I merely encapsulate bitcoind and control what nodes it connects with, and give one of them at a time permission to generate the block.

I plan to fork the most popular PoW coins Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin and Namecoin on separate networks with separate branding - CPOS-B, CPOS-L, CPOS-D and CPOS-N respectively. To buoy prices, I would allocate a modest portion of the block rewards as dividend payments proportional to unspent transaction outputs. The remainder of the block reward finances generous support of full nodes and developers. The extreme low costs of CPOS with regard to PoW - which consumes the entire block reward, allows CPOS to offer 100x lower transaction fees. That feature, together with modest dividends and immediate acknowledgement of accepted transactions, should entice users to migrate over to CPOS from the PoW networks. All they need to do is configure new seed node addresses on their wallets and services. Their pre-fork coins will be present for spending.

So if I'm understanding right you plan to do a hard-fork of the Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Namecoin blockchains? How does that work exactly? People will have their balances from their orginial blockchains on your CPoS forks as well?

Has this ever happened before? Is the intention to lure people over to these new networks where their balances are duplicated?

It's an interesting idea, that's for sure.

[fluffypony]

You angry and blind. You trying to insult me, just because you have nothing to say in substance.

I have my own reasons of being anonymous, and people who i work with know exactly why, and this have no relations with your fantasy about botnets.

Sorry for off-topic.

Lighten up already, it was a joke: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stVIWf03XrQ

[rpietila]

If you're tired of holding XMR, there's 35k of liquidity at the top of the book on polo right now

EDIT: well, i guess there just aren't any more XMR for sale at this price.  poor bidder.  hope he's patient.

It was there for the whole day. If you are patient (and have 100 BTC), you can drive XMR price to 0.005 without spending a dime in this market.

[SlipperySlope]

So if I'm understanding right you plan to do a hard-fork of the Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, and Namecoin blockchains? How does that work exactly? People will have their balances from their original blockchains on your CPoS forks as well?

Has this ever happened before? Is the intention to lure people over to these new networks where their balances are duplicated?

It's an interesting idea, that's for sure.

Yes, these will be four premined altcoins, in which users will find their coins present if acquired before the date of the fork. The fork simply copies the original blockchain at a certain announced moment in time, then creates new blocks without effort according to the coin's specifications, e.g. Bitcoin - every 10 minutes. In CPoS, geographically dispersed, redundant full nodes take turns creating new blocks as a certain nomadic software agent periodically migrates from node to node. Non-generating nodes replicate and verify the canonical blockchain. The core code for each altcoin, e.g. bitcoind for Bitcoin, is run as a slave by CPoS which provides the encrypted and authenticated network (TLS/SSL) between nodes.

My goal is to ultimately persuade users to migrate from the original coin networks to the respective CPoS networks by virtue of customer service, improved performance, e.g. effectively immediate confirmations, and 100x lower fees. Wallet and service owners should be able to reconfigure their seed node addresses to join the CPoS network.

By design, CPoS does not have the well known vulnerabilities of Satoshi's Bitcoin, e.g. 51% attack, Sybil attack, Finney attack, lost transactions, miner-ignored transactions, selfish mining, partitioned network, etc. Rather CPoS has a set of new to-be-found vulnerabilities because the Texai code base has never been used in production. DDoS attacks will be mitigated by paid-for DDoS traffic filtering at each full node. Best-effort volunteers operate the existing PoW networks, whereas CPoS operators will be paid professionals.

I expect CPoS altcoin prices to be very low at first, growing in proportion to the square of their respective transaction quantities. As the the CPoS altcoins grow in value, the system be able to keep pace with transaction growth by adding more paid-for full nodes. I would vet the first operators, prioritizing system administrator and data security skills. I suppose monthly payments of $5000 in coin should suffice to attract the talent CPoS needs to provision the specified hardware and bandwidth. As block rewards grow with price increase, the CPoS system would pay C++ developers to join the Bitcoin Core team. I believe, for example, that blockchain spent transaction pruning as proposed by Satoshi would be a valuable contribution by CPoS to the cryptocurrency community.

The Texai cognitive architecture should become a compelling platform for third-party application development, as the various Java software agents will pay each other with bitcoin microtransactions for micro-services rendered, and will pay each local operator for the agent's fair share of the infrastructure.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.0

[Este Nuno]

...

By design, CPoS does not have the well known vulnerabilities of Satoshi's Bitcoin, e.g. 51% attack, Sybil attack, Finney attack, lost transactions, miner-ignored transactions, selfish mining, partitioned network, etc. Rather CPoS has a set of new to-be-found vulnerabilities because the Texai code base has never been used in production. DDoS attacks will be mitigated by paid-for DDoS traffic filtering at each full node. Best-effort volunteers operate the existing PoW networks, whereas CPoS operators will be paid professionals.

...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584719.0

Why PoS can't remain decentralized. The 'D' in front of PoS doesn't overcome the issue.

AnonyMint seems absolutely convinced that PoS cannot work. You both seem confident in your respective opinions. Does your CPoS system address any of his concerns?

[devphp]

AnonyMint seems abosolutely convinced that PoS cannot work.

If he says so, it has to be true. PoS should shut down all operations within 24 hours and go home.

[rpietila]

AnonyMint seems abosolutely convinced that PoS cannot work.

If he says so, it has to be true. PoS should shut down all operations within 24 hours and go home.

My understanding is that PoS has attack vectors that are not present in PoW, giving the attacker a cheaper way to totally control/destroy the network. On the other hand, even credit cards "work", in a way. Nothing is perfect, even PoW.