rpietila Altcoin Observer

[infofront]

A previously published example (my largest XMR purchase to date):  I purchased a large-format oil painting in XMR; the artist subsequently paid rent in XMR.

Did the artist pay the rent to someone else than you? It makes all the difference.

Plus: did he have a regular contract, and got a invoice?

She.  No.

Was she attractive?

[1715244639]

1715244639

[1715244639]

1715244639

[1715244639]

1715244639

[1715244639]

1715244639

[1715244639]

1715244639

[arnuschky]

PRIMECOIN (XPM) is breaking upwards with high volume on btc-e   

Primecoin still exists? I remember this being all the rage about a year ago, articles everywhere etc.
In retrospective, that algorithm seems like one of the best "gpu-resistant" POWs out there.
(where gpu-resistant does NOT that there are no gpu miners, but it does mean that gpu miners
have only a low advantage over cpu miners)

A pity that the emission rule makes this coin to unprofitable to all miners.

[pandacoin]

A previously published example (my largest XMR purchase to date):  I purchased a large-format oil painting in XMR; the artist subsequently paid rent in XMR.

Did the artist pay the rent to someone else than you? It makes all the difference.

Plus: did he have a regular contract, and got a invoice?

She.  No.

Was she attractive?

Is this important?

Nice to see that more deals are done with XMR.

[rpietila]

PRIMECOIN (XPM) is breaking upwards with high volume on btc-e   

I almost got a shock thinking that was XMR chart early in the morning...

[supranetico]

Here's a look at the SuperNEt ICO:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=780481.0

And further explanations:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770895.msg8800002#msg8800002

I wish anyone investing in it, best of luck.

[iCEBREAKER]

XPOST from failed reboot thread:

Viacoin.  This is the only alt besides monero that I'm currently watching and take seriously.  Another smart coin developed by btcdrak in the same vein as counterparty but without all the btc drama that comes with it.  Peter Todd was hired to help with the design and is going to be implementing tree chains into the Viacoin network which he believes will solve the 51% attack problem.

You can find the relevant info here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=699278.0

The developers bring the same level of quality and commitment that the monero developers have brought to XMR imo.

Here is the live stream recorded of Peter Todd, BTCdrak, and many others discussion VIAcoin and Treechains...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8hTbfKAhfE

Also looks like Peter Todd is implementing "frozen coin" to VIA and BTC!  hugeee

https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/510360423770898432

Let's add up VIA's score:

1. Is the coin delivering a relevant technological breakthrough as the first legitimate instance of the code?
++yes - 2 points (clearinghouse and treechains)

2. Does the coin have a developer team of several people, with at least 2 public people?
++Yes - 2 points (Peter Todd, Grynn San, and drak are well known)

3. Is the software open source?
++Yes - 2 points (https://github.com/viacoin/viacoin)

4. Involvement of Bitcoin whales/legendaries/hero members?
++Yes, so much that it inspires both awe and hate - 2 points (Otoh, Peter Todd, and myself)

5. What % of the eventual market cap is held by the 3 largest staked devs?
++<3% - 2 points (http://www.richlist.eu/viacoin)

6. Was there a premine/instamine/ninjamine/..?
++0-1% - 2 points (presale of Block One was exemplary and successfully prevented insta/ninja/nerd mines)

7. What % of coins are mined in the first year?
++<20% - 2 points (http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/07/viacoin-distribution-model.html)

8. Was there lying/deception at any point in the launch, eg. concerning pre(etc.)mine?
++no - 2 points (http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/08/viacoin-presale-launch.html)

9. What's the marketcap?(* free float only)
+TOP-20 marketcap - 1 point (#14 at http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/views/filter-non-mineable-and-premined/)

10. What's the trading volume?
-less - 0 points

11. What's the emission (daily inflation measured by mktvalue)?
-less - 0 points

VIA tally = 17 Pietila Points

Monero tally = 18   

VIA loses points for being small, but a tiny cap doubles more easily...

[smooth]

presale

10 million coin presale out of the entire 30 million total. Correction noted: 92 million.

If you think presales are cool, you probably like this. If you don't, you don't.

The accelerated block rewards the first week were rather bizarre and probably the opposite of how it should be done, but that's a relatively minor 100K coins or so.

[iCEBREAKER]

presale

10 million coin presale out of the entire 30 million total.

If you think presales are cool, you probably like this. If you don't, you don't.

The accelerated block rewards the first week were rather bizarre and probably the opposite of how it should be done, but that's a relatively minor 100K coins or so.

Nice omissions smooth.  If you have to remove context to make your point, it's a clue that your point is not very strong.

The presale was done in an entirely honorable and optimal manner.  It provided funds to hire Brynn San and Peter Todd, etc.  It prevented insta/ninja/nerd mining.

I don't think all "presales are cool" and you have no evidence I approve of any presale besides VIA's, much less presales in general. 

Instead of being lazy, putting words in my mouth, and alluding to the general case against presales, why not tell us specifically you have against VIA's plan?

http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/08/viacoin-presale-launch.html

If you bother to read, you'll find the VIA presale was conducted in an exemplary, fair, and transparent manner.

PS You also got the total coins wrong, it's 92 million not "30."   

[smooth]

Nice omissions smooth.  If you have to remove context to make your point, it's a clue that your point is not very strong.

The presale was done in an entirely honorable and optimal manner.  It provided funds to hire Brynn San and Peter Todd, etc.

There was no omission. I was making a specific point, without comment on your opinion whether the presale was handled well or not

Fact: 1/9 (correction noted and see below) of the eventual total coin supply (presumably a much higher portion of the current supply, but I haven't figured this out) was sold to a group of relative insiders (i.e. people who even knew the coin existed) within a relatively short period of time.

What the was used for and whether it was conducted well doesn't change that point at all. As I said, if you think presales are a good idea, you will likely favor this, particularly if it was handled well (which according to you it was).

I leave it up to individuals who care to decide whether that makes or a desirable outcome or not.

It prevented insta/ninja/nerd mining.

This is nonsense. There are plenty of ways of preventing instaming, etc. that have nothing to do with a presale, and if anything the extra coins rewarded in the first week encourage instamining-type behavior (people who are able to deploy a lot of the right kind of hardware quickly and get everything in place right away get a disproportionate advantage).

I believe coins should do the exact opposite: a slow-start method (first suggested to me by gmaxwell) where the earlier blocks have lower rewards. That provides a good opportunity to address any startup issues (download problems, build problems, etc.) and avoids giving any particular advantage to people who are good with getting stuff up and running quickly (note, this last group happens to include me, and I've made a fair amount mining new coin launches, so I'm arguing against my own interest here). I'll note in fairness that Monero didn't do this, though also fair to note that the current team was not at all involved with the actual launch.

If by "nerd" mining you mean dga-type stuff, it is true they use the relatively mature Scrypt algorithm, and that is what prevents dga-style "nerd" mining, not the presale. It also likely gives a major advantage to people with the best Scrypt ASICs, which if history is any indication (and I believe it is) will usually be people with close relationships to the developers of those ASICs or the developers themselves.

Whether or not anyone cares about that I leave up to them (obviously opinions about ASIC-mining vs. non-ASIC-mining differ widely). It certainly doesn't count as a strike against VIA compared to other Scrypt coins, I'll say that.

PS You also got the total coins wrong, it's 92 million not "30."  

Important correction! I misread the block reward schedule. I will edit above to avoid misleading anyone.

EDIT: In further correction on VIA. They did have a slow-start period of 10K blocks (about 4 days) with no mining reward. I applaud that, though I probably would just include some tiny reward as opposed to zero (small difference).

But overall the reward for the first 40K (not including the first 10K) blocks was about 100K coins in excess of the normal reward. I still find that bizarre and close to being an instamine over the first week. I see no valid purpose for it other than giving insiders a chance to rent rigs and mine out some extra coins quickly when few people even knew the coin existed.

[iCEBREAKER]

smooth, this is where you just made stuff up:

you think presales are cool

If you had bothered to understand/include the context, your mistake would be crystal clear.  I was talking about ONE particular presale, not all (plural) presales ever!

Everyone knew well in advace the VIA presale was underway.  It made all the papers.  Yes, even Coindesk.  They raised millions, to loud acclaim.  Sorry you were under a rock or something.

The market has decided your FUD about the character of the presale participants is nonsense.  That's why VIA now trades at 5 times the Block One price.    

PS VIA used the 'slow-start' method you requested.  Maybe you should bother to learn the facts before attacking?  

Furthermore, we believe the market decide the initial price of viacoins, and be inclusive to everyone, not favoring just miners. So to enable wider and fairer distribution, we will distribute the first 10MM coins via a proportional bid system: individuals will receive viacoins in proportion of their contribution to the total bid. This will determine the market price.

Please note that there is a period after launch where there is no mining reward. This prevents instamining, enables participants to get wallet software and pools configured and allows us to distribute viacoin according to the presale.

The presale process will be completely transparent and independently verifiable from start to finish. To this end we have built a special system which does not require registration but leverages a deterministic system run on both the bitcoin and viacoin blockchains.
http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/07/viacoin-distribution-model.html

[smooth]

The market has decided your FUD about the character of the presale participants is nonsense.  That's why VIA now trades at 5 times the Block One price.    

This argument is nonsense. The worst pump-and-dump coins have all traded at high prices at one time or another. You can't argue that because something trades a high price it is great, especially on a thread where people are discussing what is or isn't a good investment.

Note: I'm not saying it isn't a good investment, I'm just saying that fact that it trades at such-and-such a price doesn't mean it is one.

PS VIA used the 'slow-start' method you requested.  Maybe you should bother to learn the facts before attacking?  

Yes, it did, and I corrected that above before your post. For the first 10000 blocks (roughly 2-3 days) there was no reward. For the next 30K blocks it had higher than normal rewards. That bizarre structure (as opposed to simply ramping up to the normal reward over some reasonable period) is nothing more than fastmine/instamine/whatever you want to call it, although a relatively small one in the overall scheme of things.

[iCEBREAKER]

The market has decided your FUD about the character of the presale participants is nonsense.  That's why VIA now trades at 5 times the Block One price.    

This argument is nonsense. The worst pump-and-dump coins have all traded at high prices at one time or another. You can't argue that because something trades a high price it is great, especially on a thread where people are discussing what is or isn't a good investment.

Note: I'm not saying it isn't a good investment, I'm just saying that fact that it trades at such-and-such a price doesn't mean it is one.

PS VIA used the 'slow-start' method you requested.  Maybe you should bother to learn the facts before attacking?  

Yes, it did, and I corrected that above before your post. For the first 10000 blocks (roughly 2-3 days) there was no reward. For the next 30K blocks it had higher than normal rewards. That bizarre structure (as opposed to simply ramping up to the normal reward over some reasonable period) is nothing more than fastmine/instamine/whatever you want to call it, although a relatively small one in the overall scheme of things.

The market is often irrational (see DARK/CLOAK/XC/BLACK) but to disregard it entirely is a mistake.

No launch or emission curve will ever please everybody, and you know that far better than most.   

Like you, I hate every other ICO/presale type thingy and have never endorsed any besides VIA.   However, having studied the matter in great detail I am satisfied VIA's presale is the singular exception to a practice will a well-deserved bad reputation.   So why not listen to the reasoning behind my purported exception with an open mind, instead of knee-jerk objections?

VIA set a new standard for fair, honest, and transparent launches involving a presale.  They should be criticized for think you think need improvement, but it's only fair to praise them for what they got right.

[smooth]

The market has decided your FUD about the character of the presale participants is nonsense.  That's why VIA now trades at 5 times the Block One price.    

This argument is nonsense. The worst pump-and-dump coins have all traded at high prices at one time or another. You can't argue that because something trades a high price it is great, especially on a thread where people are discussing what is or isn't a good investment.

Note: I'm not saying it isn't a good investment, I'm just saying that fact that it trades at such-and-such a price doesn't mean it is one.

PS VIA used the 'slow-start' method you requested.  Maybe you should bother to learn the facts before attacking?  

Yes, it did, and I corrected that above before your post. For the first 10000 blocks (roughly 2-3 days) there was no reward. For the next 30K blocks it had higher than normal rewards. That bizarre structure (as opposed to simply ramping up to the normal reward over some reasonable period) is nothing more than fastmine/instamine/whatever you want to call it, although a relatively small one in the overall scheme of things.

The market is often irrational (see DARK/CLOAK/XC/BLACK) but to disregard it entirely is a mistake.

No launch or emission curve will ever please everybody, and you know that far better than most.  

Like you, I hate every other ICO/presale type thingy and have never endorsed any besides VIA.   However, having studied the matter in great detail I am satisfied VIA's presale is the singular exception to a practice will a well-deserved bad reputation.   So why not listen to the reasoning behind my purported exception with an open mind, instead of knee-jerk objections?

VIA set a new standard for fair, honest, and transparent launches involving a presale.  They should be criticized for think you think need improvement, but it's only fair to praise them for what they got right.

I have no first-hand knowledge of how the presale was conducted, so I can't praise or condemn that aspect of it. Your comments on that matter carry more weight than mine would if I were to make any, since you seem to be intimately familiar with it.

I'm not a fan of how they handled the Peter Todd relationship, where they put out a hyped press release claiming he had "joined the project" as their "Chief Scientist," while at the very same time he was posting on Reddit saying that they were simply a consulting client, being charged the same rate as all of his other consulting clients (including Monero BTW), paying him to do something he already wanted to do (tree chains), and that he wasn't even familiar with what they were doing. That particular episode stunk of sleazy and possibly misleading promotional tactics to me, and in fact I suspect they hired him specifically in order to do the press release, though of course I can't prove that.

Other than that and what I dug up about the odd (but small) one-week fast-mine I know nothing about VIA, but it did leave me with a bad impression of them.

BTW, the fact that their stuff runs on coindesk is another negative to me, since it seems likely coindesk only covers what they are paid to cover (or perhaps is a huge enough story they would be forced to cover it, but that certainly doesn't including anything VIA-related).

[iCEBREAKER]

I have no first-hand knowledge of how the presale was conducted, so I can't praise or condemn that aspect of it. Your comments on that matter carry more weight than mine would if I were to make any, since you seem to be intimately familiar with it.

I'm not a fan of how they handled the Peter Todd relationship, where they put out a hyped press release claiming he had "joined the project" as their "Chief Scientist," while at the very same time he was posting on Reddit saying that they were simply a consulting client, being charged the same rate as all of his other consulting clients (including Monero BTW), paying him to do something he already wanted to do (tree chains), and that he wasn't even familiar with what they were doing. That particular episode stunk of sleazy and possibly misleading promotional tactics to me, and in fact I suspect they hired him specifically in order to do the press release, though of course I can't prove that.

Other than that and what I dug up about the odd (but small) one-week fast-mine I know nothing about VIA, but it did leave me with a bad impression of them.

BTW, the fact that their stuff runs on coindesk is another negative to me, since it seems likely coindesk only covers what they are paid to cover (or perhaps is a huge enough story they would be forced to cover it, but that certainly doesn't including anything VIA-related).

You don't need "intimate first-hand knowledge of how the presale was conducted" to simply research and form a valid opinion of the matter.  Just consult the primary sources: http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/07/viacoin-distribution-model.html and the VIA thread.  And spare us your overwrought solipsism.   

Of course rather than consult primary sources, you'd rather throw out red herrings completely unrelated to VIA's presale.

As if Coindesk had a damn thing to do with VIA, besides reporting on the presale in a very public way that destroyed your now-forgotten claim that 'only insiders knew about the presale.'

Do you have any evidence that VIA bribed Coindesk?  No?  Then STFU until you do.

As if Peter Todd had a damn thing to do with the presale, besides later becoming the beneficiary of it enabling him to complete his work on treechains.

When you find evidence VIA hired Peter Todd simply for a press release pump, and not treechains, please let us know.  Until then, STFU with your baseless defamation.

You're a clever child and I know you can produce constructive criticism of VIA, but all we've seen so far is fact-free FUD.  I challenge you to do better.   

[smooth]

You don't need "intimate first-hand knowledge of how the presale was conducted" to simply research and form a valid opinion of the matter.  Just consult the primary sources: http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/07/viacoin-distribution-model.html and the VIA thread.  And spare us your overwrought solipsism.  

Why is my opinion of how they conducted the presale so important to you? I already said: I don't have one.

And, no, consulting their own materials would not be a sufficient investigation for me to have an opinion.

And no I'm not going to STFU about problems I have with them just because you like VIA and I'm not necessarily complementary of it. Deal.

And here's you by the way, agreeing with the idea that Coindesk hypes pump-and-dump coins they have pieces of: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=722532.msg8167219#msg8167219

It is definitely suspicious that Coindesk never reports on Monero (even after the somewhat unprecedented cyberattack against it last week) despite frequently reporting on objectively smaller coins (including VIA).

You're a clever child and I know you can produce constructive criticism of VIA, but all we've seen so far is fact-free FUD.  I challenge you to do better.   

My constructive criticism would be relaunch without the presale and without the fast mining the first week, or someone should fork the code and do the same.

[iCEBREAKER]

You don't need "intimate first-hand knowledge of how the presale was conducted" to simply research and form a valid opinion of the matter.  Just consult the primary sources: http://blog.viacoin.org/2014/07/07/viacoin-distribution-model.html and the VIA thread.  And spare us your overwrought solipsism.  

Why is my opinion of how they conducted the presale so important to you? I already said: I don't have one.

And, no, consulting their own materials would not be a sufficient investigation for me to have an opinion.

And no I'm not going to STFU about problems I have with them just because you like VIA and I'm not necessarily complementary of it. Deal.

And here's you by the way, agreeing with the idea that Coindesk hypes pump-and-dump coins they have pieces of: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=722532.msg8167219#msg8167219

It is definitely suspicious that Coindesk never reports on Monero (even after the somewhat unprecedented cyberattack against it last week) despite frequently reporting on objectively smaller coins (including VIA).

You're a clever child and I know you can produce constructive criticism of VIA, but all we've seen so far is fact-free FUD.  I challenge you to do better.   

My constructive criticism would be relaunch without the presale and without the fast mining the first week, or someone should fork the code and do the same.

So you're asserting your right to refuse to read the relevant materials, yet spout off gratuitous defamatory FUD regardless?   

That's fine.  Let's see how you like it when others do that in your Monero thread...

PS  Entertaining an idea is not the same as agreeing with it.  Good luck with your education, you'll need it!

[smooth]

So you're asserting your right to refuse to read the relevant materials, yet spout off gratuitous defamatory FUD regardless?  

No I'm saying that I don't care enough to dig into it, nor do I particularly think it matters because in the end I reject the presale model. Are "good presales" better than "bad presales?" Perhaps, but to me it is a distinction without a difference.

That's fine.  Let's see how you like it when others do that in your Monero thread...

It would be hard to increase the amount of FUD and trolling on the Monero thread.

However, I don't think its the same thing at all. This is not the VIA thread, and I'm not thread bombing there at all. I'm giving my opinions about an altcoin on a thread that is devoted to opinions about altcoins.

[iCEBREAKER]

So you're asserting your right to refuse to read the relevant materials, yet spout off gratuitous defamatory FUD regardless?  

No I'm saying that I don't care enough to dig into it, nor do I particularly think it matters because in the end I reject the presale model. Are "good presales" better than "bad presales?" Perhaps, but to me it is a distinction without a difference.

That's fine.  Let's see how you like it when others do that in your Monero thread...

It would be hard to increase the amount of FUD and trolling on the Monero thread.

However, I don't think its the same thing at all. This is not the VIA thread, and I'm not thread bombing there at all. I'm giving my opinions about an altcoin on a thread that is devoted to opinions about altcoins.

Again, you insist on putting the plural form "presales" in my mouth when the only one I've ever endorsed is VIA's.  Likewise, I never said this was "the VIA thread."   

Thanks for admitting you have have no idea what you're talking about, and can't be bothered to find out.  I can't wait to presume to invent/distort your positions for you, then respond without regard for facts and evidence:

What's that smooth?  You love all Cryptnote coins?!?  How dare you endorse that scam Bytecoin?  How much did Ducknote pay you to spread FUD about VIA?
This isn't the Dashcoin thread.  Stop saying this is the Dashcoin thread!

^^^See how that works?  I must admit, it's a lot of fun!   

[smooth]

So you're asserting your right to refuse to read the relevant materials, yet spout off gratuitous defamatory FUD regardless?  

No I'm saying that I don't care enough to dig into it, nor do I particularly think it matters because in the end I reject the presale model. Are "good presales" better than "bad presales?" Perhaps, but to me it is a distinction without a difference.

That's fine.  Let's see how you like it when others do that in your Monero thread...

It would be hard to increase the amount of FUD and trolling on the Monero thread.

However, I don't think its the same thing at all. This is not the VIA thread, and I'm not thread bombing there at all. I'm giving my opinions about an altcoin on a thread that is devoted to opinions about altcoins.

Again, you insist on putting the plural form "presales" in my mouth when the only one I've ever endorsed is VIA's.  Likewise, I never said this was "the VIA thread."  

Thanks for admitting you have have no idea what you're talking about, and can't be bothered to find out.  I can't wait to presume to invent/distort your positions for you, then respond without regard for facts and evidence:

What's that smooth?  You love all Cryptnote coins?!?  How dare you endorse that scam Bytecoin?  How much did Ducknote pay you to spread FUD about VIA?
This isn't the Dashcoin thread.  Stop saying this is the Dashcoin thread!

^^^See how that works?  I must admit, it's a lot of fun!  

Are you a native English speaker? Serious question because the meaning of my sentence above where I used the word "presales" is quite clear and you are misinterpreting it.

But if you get enjoyment out of personal attacks on me, have at it.

Here's some raw material for you to work with:

I love duckNote

[iCEBREAKER]

I love duckNote

Yes, you love all forms of Cryptonote, just like I love all presales.