Bitcoin Forum
April 26, 2017, 09:38:33 PM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.14.1  [Torrent]. (New!)
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 [33] 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 ... 97 »
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] FIMK: 2.5G POS, extra block rewards, messaging, asset colors, p2p shopping  (Read 162256 times)
Vega
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 699



View Profile
July 07, 2014, 04:05:19 PM
 #641

i agree 100%
the way crypto works in my eyes atm is still the same as fiat the rich get richer and the poor get fuck all lmao (yes i am in the poor section haha)

I really wish people would stop saying this, because it's just not true.
The saying refers to systems where the rich gets better return for their money. Just because they have more they get more opportunities and favorable terms. You know, like the real word.

But with PoS the rich do not get richer. No matter how much coin do you have, any one coin will always earn the same return. This is the most fair system you can ask for.

Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 04:18:56 PM
 #642

But with PoS the rich do not get richer. No matter how much coin do you have, any one coin will always earn the same return. This is the most fair system you can ask for.

Come on it's math. Big stakes do accumulate way faster and therefore rich do get richer.

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
Eliphaz Fimk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 579


Heatledger.com


View Profile WWW
July 07, 2014, 04:19:08 PM
 #643

I am a large FIM holder (from IPO) and I even I think it would be nice to have incentives for smaller FIM holders to get involved.
We'll think this through how to arrange it, but it's very difficult to do without skewing the incentives towards unfairness.

Bonus rewards are not paid very often, so random variance will play a big role and even small time forgers have a considerable chance of hitting the bonanza on one of them.

         
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
   ████      ████      ████████████          █████        ████████████████  
   ████      ████      ████████████          █████        ████████████████  
   ████      ████      ████                ████ ████            ████        
   ██████████████      ████████████        ████ ████            ████        
   ██████████████      ████████████      ████     ████          ████        
   ████      ████      ████              █████████████          ████        
   ████      ████      ████████████    █████████████████        ████        
   ████      ████      ████████████    ████         ████        ████
        
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 
              ██      ██████  ██████    ██████   ██████  ██████
              ██      ██      ██   ██  ██    ██  ██      ██   ██
              ██      ██████  ██   ██  ██  ▄▄▄   ██████  ██████
              ██      ██      ██   ██  ██  ▀▀██  ██      ██   ██
              ██████  ██████  ██████    ██████   ██████  ██   ██







tigomjir
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 04:20:53 PM
 #644

1000+ votes on BTER. come on
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 04:38:00 PM
 #645

I am a large FIM holder (from IPO) and I even I think it would be nice to have incentives for smaller FIM holders to get involved.
We'll think this through how to arrange it, but it's very difficult to do without skewing the incentives towards unfairness.

Bonus rewards are not paid very often, so random variance will play a big role and even small time forgers have a considerable chance of hitting the bonanza on one of them.

Rough idea: Divide the reward with the forging account's balance and use that as a factor. Additionally have a maximum cap for revard, like 10000 now. This way anyone with 10000 or less would get the full reward 10000. Account with 50000 would get 10000/50000 times 10000 = 2000 etc. Simple.

The 200 FIMK basic reward would be paid in any case for the extra rewarded block like for any block. So an account with a million would get the usual 200 + only 100 extra. But an account with a million on it will forge like what, 600 000 a year was it?

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
dance
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 156


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 04:55:44 PM
 #646

Proportionally each account forge with the same rate. No matter how coins it has.
If talking about this particular 10000 reward, most _probably_ it will go to the `middle class` holder. Just because stakes of `poor` holders are too small, and count of `rich` holders is too low.
I don`t remember how IPO listing looked like, but most probably again, it looked like most of things in our world - as `normal distribution` Smiley

But from other side, we will see normal distribution of bonus rewards only after they will happen in a quite a lot quantity. Smiley
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 04:57:42 PM
 #647

Proportionally each account forge with the same rate. No matter how coins it has.

But with PoS the rich do not get richer. No matter how much coin do you have, any one coin will always earn the same return. This is the most fair system you can ask for.

Come on it's math. Big stakes do accumulate way faster and therefore rich do get richer.

I guess I'm trying to say we have to see this reward as an average future Finnish user will see it. There is the great potential if it will be widely adopted. So as a citizen you get 100 FIMK a month for starters. That is peanuts but that is what they will have. So you have received 600 in half a year and you're thinking: should I investigate this further and maybe try forging. Hey there is these regular rewards every week! Hmmm, maybe I'll give it a shot. So rather have a rewards more often and pay them reduced whenever the forging account is a big one (saving the capital for future rewards) rather than pay a full reward twice a year.

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
dance
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 156


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:08:05 PM
 #648

Proportionally each account forge with the same rate. No matter how coins it has.

But with PoS the rich do not get richer. No matter how much coin do you have, any one coin will always earn the same return. This is the most fair system you can ask for.

Come on it's math. Big stakes do accumulate way faster and therefore rich do get richer.

You don't understand.

Poor guy has 0.1% of all coins initially.
Rich guy has 10% of all coins initially.
Both are forging 24/7 for a year.

In the end of the year they still will have 0.1%/10% of all existing coins.
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:27:23 PM
 #649

Proportionally each account forge with the same rate. No matter how coins it has.

But with PoS the rich do not get richer. No matter how much coin do you have, any one coin will always earn the same return. This is the most fair system you can ask for.

Come on it's math. Big stakes do accumulate way faster and therefore rich do get richer.

You don't understand.

Poor guy has 0.1% of all coins initially.
Rich guy has 10% of all coins initially.
Both are forging 24/7 for a year.

In the end of the year they still will have 0.1%/10% of all existing coins.


example calculation:

100 000 coins distributed from total 200 000
daily interest 1%

100 000 coins distributed
account A 0.1% (100 coins)  earns 1 a day
account B 10% (10 000 coins) earns 100 a day
account C 89.1% (89 900 coins) earns 899 a day

after one day
account A 101 coins = 0.05% of total 200 000
account B 10100 coins = 5.0% of total 200 000
account C 90799 coins = 45.4% of total 200 000

after two days
account A 102.01 coins = 0.051%
account B 10201 coins = 5.10%
account C 91706.99 coins = 45.85%

after ten days
account A 110.46 coins = 0.055%
account B 11046 coins = 5.5%
account C 99305.53 coins = 49.65%

after 50 days
account A 164.46 coins = 0.082% (started from 0.05% of total 200 000)
account B 16446.32 coins = 8.2% (started from 5% of total 200 000)
account C 147852.40 coins = 73.9% (started from 44.95% of total 200 000)

The growth will end when the total cap of 200 000 coins is reached naturally.


edit: this clearly does not work in the economic model of fixed amount of currency, my bad
edit2: it kinda does with FIMK after all. Half of the total amount in the citculation in the beginning, so the percentages of the stakes from start will change accordingly  Wink
edit3: D'oh  Wink https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=633304.msg7724062#msg7724062

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:37:24 PM
 #650

dance said In the end of the year they still will have 0.1%/10% of all existing coins.
That is not the case.

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
dance
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 156


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:39:01 PM
 #651


basic maths (example):

total 100 000 coins

account A 0.1% (100 coins)  earns 1 a day
account B 10% (10 000 coins) earns 100 a day
So there are 100000 coins represents 100%.
Where are another 89.9%? Lets name it account C (89900 coins).

Quote
after one day
account A 101 coins = 0.101%
account B 10100 coins = 10.1%
And account C  90799 coins.

So NOW 100% coins != 100000 coins. It is 90799+10100+101=101000 now.
So A still has 0.1%
B still has 10%
C still has 89.9%

etc
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:47:40 PM
 #652

Someone give ME a facepalm, lol. But I still don't understand how does this work when put into perspective of having fixed amount of coins.

Anyhow agree with Jack Needles, good start.

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
illodin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 966


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:56:33 PM
 #653

I have been forging, but had to reboot my computer today. After reboot, I started up the fimk java process (ran the run.bat file), and logged in my account. It says I'm forging again - is this normal? I thought that if the java process dies I'd have to start forging again.
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 05:58:16 PM
 #654

@dance
Actually with FIMK model the total would be accordingly to previous example calculation 200 000 fixed.
and 100 000 from the beginning in circulation. Right?

Total FIMK in Genesis block: 666,280,000
Genesis block stakeholder funds: 333,140,000

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
noashh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 351



View Profile
July 07, 2014, 06:01:28 PM
 #655

Made a Facebook Fanpage @ https://www.facebook.com/FIMKrypto

Get SuperNET / Komodo / Iguana news: http://news.supernet.org
tigomjir
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 06:10:05 PM
 #656

hi dev, what are the future plans? what are the marketing plans? How you intend to spend the BTCs from IPO?
dance
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 156


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 06:10:32 PM
 #657

@dance
Actually with FIMK model the total would be accordingly to previous example calculation 200 000 fixed.
and 100 000 from the beginning in circulation. Right?

Total FIMK in Genesis block: 666,280,000
Genesis block stakeholder funds: 333,140,000
I'm not really understanding you.

For me it is easy to think like that:
We all received 300,000,000 coins in amounts according to our stakes.

170,000,000 addition will be given to us in the first year.

And amounts of these additions will have the same proportions as our initial stakes.

You payed for 30,000 coins initially - you will receive 17,000 at the end of the year.
You payed for 3,000,000 coins - you will receive 1,700,000 at the end of the year.
Eliphaz Fimk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 579


Heatledger.com


View Profile WWW
July 07, 2014, 06:13:31 PM
 #658

Made a Facebook Fanpage @ https://www.facebook.com/FIMKrypto

Nice work. Would you consider transferring access rights to Krypto FIN ry. for us to effectively be able to use the particular account for promotion, announcements and related things please?

         
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
   ████      ████      ████████████          █████        ████████████████  
   ████      ████      ████████████          █████        ████████████████  
   ████      ████      ████                ████ ████            ████        
   ██████████████      ████████████        ████ ████            ████        
   ██████████████      ████████████      ████     ████          ████        
   ████      ████      ████              █████████████          ████        
   ████      ████      ████████████    █████████████████        ████        
   ████      ████      ████████████    ████         ████        ████
        
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
 
              ██      ██████  ██████    ██████   ██████  ██████
              ██      ██      ██   ██  ██    ██  ██      ██   ██
              ██      ██████  ██   ██  ██  ▄▄▄   ██████  ██████
              ██      ██      ██   ██  ██  ▀▀██  ██      ██   ██
              ██████  ██████  ██████    ██████   ██████  ██   ██







noashh
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 351



View Profile
July 07, 2014, 06:15:04 PM
 #659

Made a Facebook Fanpage @ https://www.facebook.com/FIMKrypto

Nice work. Would you consider transferring access rights to Krypto FIN ry. for us to effectively be able to use the particular account for promotion, announcements and related things please?

Sure

Get SuperNET / Komodo / Iguana news: http://news.supernet.org
gvans
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 281


View Profile
July 07, 2014, 06:30:29 PM
 #660

@dance
Actually with FIMK model the total would be accordingly to previous example calculation 200 000 fixed.
and 100 000 from the beginning in circulation. Right?

Total FIMK in Genesis block: 666,280,000
Genesis block stakeholder funds: 333,140,000
I'm not really understanding you.

For me it is easy to think like that:
We all received 300,000,000 coins in amounts according to our stakes.

170,000,000 addition will be given to us in the first year.

And amounts of these additions will have the same proportions as our initial stakes.

You payed for 30,000 coins initially - you will receive 17,000 at the end of the year.
You payed for 3,000,000 coins - you will receive 1,700,000 at the end of the year.

No worries I'm not here to argue, not at all. It's more like I'm trying to get my head around how this works. I did correct my calculation so that the initial distribution is half of the total as it is in FIMK https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=633304.msg7721274#msg7721274
But I will take the facepalm if I'm wrong Cheesy

BTC 1Mye3mqB9WQdCj3uFwx6zcRArnzbUiq6Ro  ★ [NXT] NXT-RA49-RXFR-V6WE-97HT9
★ [ORA] LOGO  ★ [NEM] LOGO  ★ [NXT] MONOLITH  ★ [EXO] LOGO  ★ [FIMK] LOGO  ★ [NODE] LOGO
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 [33] 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 ... 97 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!