[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[YackBallz]

It's another beautiful day. Let's go for an All Time High for the fifth consecutive day!

Cloak is the best alt coin on the market - it has profited this week as BTC has lost value
Innovation, creativity, and quality make cloak a coin for the future.
Go to cloaktalk.com to learn more!

Highest volume on Mintpal!
Highest volume on Cryptsy!
People who do diligent research know this is the coin to put your money into.
Go to cloaktalk.com to learn more!

The people who come to this channel to tell you negative things about cloak are afraid, only fear leads someone to behave this way....
Alt coins are all about making money speculating, why would someone flame another coin? FEAR

Cloak has made people exceptional profits earned through development people can see and test for themselves.
See for yourself at www.cloaktalk.com

The other alt coins are terrified by cloak. They want to cost you money.

[stealth923]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

[voxelot]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you. The confusion of the network is not worth the cost. 

[Sleepyx]

Is there no other way around it without having to buy nodes like darkcoin? seriously this will just get cloak labeled as darkcoin light 

[voxelot]

Is there no other way around it without having to buy nodes like darkcoin? seriously this will just get cloak labeled as darkcoin light  

This is POS remember. This is not buying or being taxed by nodes like DRK.

[stealth923]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you.

You have not thought this through.

Coin quantity is not the factor as it moves dynamically with price...1000 drk coin cost $10 back in the day. If cloak even had 10 coins to become a node, in 5 years that price might be unobtainable for most....get my point??? so essentially it is the SAME as DRK masternodes.

[bigozh]

i am having a hell of a time trying to push this coin over 350k... make another run at it again in a few minutes.  to the moon! thinking about fully investing on this next slump

[Sleepyx]

i am having a hell of a time trying to push this coin over 350k... make another run at it again in a few minutes.  to the moon! thinking about fully investing on this next slump

Wouldn't it be best to wait for morning USA time?

[xibeijan]

Thank you for the technical post.  Hope this answers some.

Thanks for your productive response.  I actually own both DRK and CLOAK, so want to understand the systems better.

Obfuscation.  You have to think about PoSA like tor.

1. We can black list malicious nodes and rely on the fact that there will be so many nodes on the network (unlike centralized masternodes) that the majority will not be spy nodes and to find any relevant data will be next to impossible.  Nothing is 100% approaching limits is the best way to handle things.

You can only black list nodes if you can detect that they are doing something bad.  There is no way to detect which nodes are the malicious nodes that are spying because other than recording transactions, they perform their duties perfectly and are upstanding citizens according to the protocol.  However, they secretly record the links between transactions and publish them publicly elsewhere (example, their own de-anonomised block explorer).

2. Same question as 1

Indeed.

3. 2 levels out of a random selection. powers of two magnify probabilities of not being interfered with exponentially.

The problem is that 2^1 is only 2.  To leverage the power of two, you need to add more layers of anonymity.  For example, 8 or 10 steps, so you get 2^10 = 1024.  However, the problem is that would slow down transactions too much.  

4. Again the same questions

No.  It's quite different.  My 4th question is about someone stealing funds, not anonymity.

[voxelot]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you.

You have not thought this through.

Coin quantity is not the factor as it moves dynamically with price...1000 drk coin cost $10 back in the day. If cloak even had 10 coins to become a node, in 5 years that price might be unobtainable for most....get my point??? so essentially it is the SAME as DRK masternodes.

You must be a day trader.  Our code is not static and there is no node price setting.  This is a network

[stealth923]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you.

You have not thought this through.

Coin quantity is not the factor as it moves dynamically with price...1000 drk coin cost $10 back in the day. If cloak even had 10 coins to become a node, in 5 years that price might be unobtainable for most....get my point??? so essentially it is the SAME as DRK masternodes.

You must be a day trader.  Our code is not static and there is no node price setting.  This is a network

How so - do you propose to dynamically change the number of coins required to become a node based on the market price???

Edit: you say small investment, but how do you know what that same investment is worth in 6 months time to become a node?

[cryptoatc]

I WANT TO SEE CLOAK PASSING DARK ON COINMARKETCAP

[humski]

I WANT TO SEE CLOAK PASSING DARK ON COINMARKETCAP

yup reaching the heights of 0.04BTC

[voxelot]

Thank you for the technical post.  Hope this answers some.

Thanks for your productive response.  I actually own both DRK and CLOAK, so want to understand the systems better.

Obfuscation.  You have to think about PoSA like tor.

1. We can black list malicious nodes and rely on the fact that there will be so many nodes on the network (unlike centralized masternodes) that the majority will not be spy nodes and to find any relevant data will be next to impossible.  Nothing is 100% approaching limits is the best way to handle things.

You can only black list nodes if you can detect that they are doing something bad.  There is no way to detect which nodes are the malicious nodes that are spying because other than recording transactions, they perform their duties perfectly and are upstanding citizens according to the protocol.  However, they secretly record the links between transactions and publish them publicly elsewhere (example, their own de-anonomised block explorer).

2. Same question as 1

Indeed.

3. 2 levels out of a random selection. powers of two magnify probabilities of not being interfered with exponentially.

The problem is that 2^1 is only 2.  To leverage the power of two, you need to add more layers of anonymity.  For example, 8 or 10 steps, so you get 2^10 = 1024.  However, the problem is that would slow down transactions too much.  

4. Again the same questions

No.  It's quite different.  My 4th question is about someone stealing funds, not anonymity.

Blacklisting is only a first defense and I have no idea if it is even going to be implemented, just a thought and it is a weak one.

About layers of anon.. you forget that you have as many nodes as you have on the network to randomly be assigned to.

We have already been thinking about ways of prevent nodes from knowing when a posa tx is incoming.  Packet sniffing is an issue we are combating.

[voxelot]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you.

You have not thought this through.

Coin quantity is not the factor as it moves dynamically with price...1000 drk coin cost $10 back in the day. If cloak even had 10 coins to become a node, in 5 years that price might be unobtainable for most....get my point??? so essentially it is the SAME as DRK masternodes.

You must be a day trader.  Our code is not static and there is no node price setting.  This is a network

How so - do you propose to dynamically change the number of coins required to become a node based on the market price???

Edit: you say small investment, but how do you know what that same investment is worth in 6 months time to become a node?

All I mean is that an empty wallet has been programmed to not be allowed to be a node.  You can do the math on percentages, I will not take the time for you.

[illodin]

i like how everyone from the dark camp seemingly forgets that they do not currently have an operational build of the technology that they're been promising for... how many months has it been? almost a year?! wow it has been a long time with no results, good luck with that.

That is false. Darksend has been working in the main net for months now.

[ThisTimeYes]

To show a little pity on the troll, just click ignore. I am not excusing his actions, they are abhorent and distasteful to say the least. He does, however, have a right to speak his mind, just as BobSurplus went to other forums and trolled til his hearts content. Most seemed to have had Bob's back then, so what now? I unloaded all my dark and am no longer buying or holding it. I have a ton of cloak if you are wondering where my interests lie. I will say that the dark community was unmercilessly trolled for a long time, which makes drkman's actions either odd or enlightening depending on how you view this. To summarize, we let Bob troll, no one told him to stop. No reporting needs to be done. Simply ignore.

the high level thwory of your argument may be sound, but in practice bob didn't troll, he spoke the truth. He might have been a bit antagonistic about it, but he didn't lie, he didn't distort the truth. the truth is hilarious enough on it's own merit.

drkboy on the otherhand has just been purposefully making shit up. his arguments make no sense, he's just trying to be the loudest person in the room so that people will think the story is about him, and not about cloak passing 300k today. everytime he's asked to clarify what he wants, he just derails into another tangent, it's impossible to pin him down because he is purposefully without direction.

for instance he keeps asking why the nazi/stalinist dev will not unban or even comment on the bans that happened today in IRC. The Dagger DID in no uncertain terms address it, and even posted a full transcript. this is ignored and the carnival keeps going.

reminds me of this famous phonecall going around:

https://soundcloud.com/ryan-block-10/comcastic-service

he's purposefully not listening to anything resembling reason. he is a shit disturber. there's a big difference between calling a coin on their shit, and playing with your own shit. one of them has dignity, the other is a monkey playing with his own feces, trying to decorate the walls brown.

bob uses the truth as his weapon. drkboy is literally only making up bullshit.

Agree with this and came to Bob's defense for this very reason.  Too much ridiculous annoying behavior doesn't deserve to be rewarded with an ignore.  Someone help, please make this unnac  

Ignore is a good feature would you not agree?

Everyone report Drkman to the forum admin for abuse. Lets get him banned from here. This is ridiculous.

Reported.  Good suggestion.  That type of idiotic posting just clogs up the forum.  Please report if you agree with me.  

As a side-note:  Seems like we've seen quite a price increase, how about that.  Still no where close to a proper valuation.  

On another note, would be nice to separate the tech related posts from the discussion of other issues.  I guess the best place to do that is on the home forum at this point.  Would be cool is there is somewhere to point for commonly asked questions.  

Seems like some of the same questions come up consistently.  Thanks to all the tech savvy folks who can answer those type of questions and their patience in responding.  Nice work community, brilliant work dev's.  

[stealth923]

Thank you for the technical post.  Hope this answers some.

Thanks for your productive response.  I actually own both DRK and CLOAK, so want to understand the systems better.

Obfuscation.  You have to think about PoSA like tor.

1. We can black list malicious nodes and rely on the fact that there will be so many nodes on the network (unlike centralized masternodes) that the majority will not be spy nodes and to find any relevant data will be next to impossible.  Nothing is 100% approaching limits is the best way to handle things.

You can only black list nodes if you can detect that they are doing something bad.  There is no way to detect which nodes are the malicious nodes that are spying because other than recording transactions, they perform their duties perfectly and are upstanding citizens according to the protocol.  However, they secretly record the links between transactions and publish them publicly elsewhere (example, their own de-anonomised block explorer).

2. Same question as 1

Indeed.

3. 2 levels out of a random selection. powers of two magnify probabilities of not being interfered with exponentially.

The problem is that 2^1 is only 2.  To leverage the power of two, you need to add more layers of anonymity.  For example, 8 or 10 steps, so you get 2^10 = 1024.  However, the problem is that would slow down transactions too much.  

4. Again the same questions

No.  It's quite different.  My 4th question is about someone stealing funds, not anonymity.

Blacklisting is only a first defense and I have no idea if it is even going to be implemented, just a thought and it is a weak one.

About layers of anon.. you forget that you have as many nodes as you have on the network to randomly be assigned to.

We have already been thinking about ways of prevent nodes from knowing when a posa tx is incoming.  Packet sniffing is an issue we are combating.

I hope you do seriously think about these things because there are a few other large security risks I can see from this design.

So to all those in this thread who keep humming "we have working anonymity".....from my perspective, its not even close.

[stealth923]

Also whats to stop a bad actor from creating as many wallets/nodes as he/she wishes and capturing the data / stealing incoming transactions. This was done with XC rev 1.0 and the same applies to Cloak's design.

A system we have put in place to require a small investment to be a node thus stopping unlimited bad nodes by investment deterrence.

small investment...isnt that the same as masternodes for DRK???

additionally, how will you blacklist - XC had its dynamic learning trust system which went down the drain....any black listing system is easily flawed and centralized.

Obviously black listing will not be enough.  No you will not have to have 1000 CLOAK like a masternode.  But if you want 1000 nodes on the network spying it will cost you.

You have not thought this through.

Coin quantity is not the factor as it moves dynamically with price...1000 drk coin cost $10 back in the day. If cloak even had 10 coins to become a node, in 5 years that price might be unobtainable for most....get my point??? so essentially it is the SAME as DRK masternodes.

You must be a day trader.  Our code is not static and there is no node price setting.  This is a network

How so - do you propose to dynamically change the number of coins required to become a node based on the market price???

Edit: you say small investment, but how do you know what that same investment is worth in 6 months time to become a node?

All I mean is that an empty wallet has been programmed to not be allowed to be a node.  You can do the math on percentages, I will not take the time for you.

This is very immature thinking and easily bypassed.

Open Wallet1, send in 1 coin. Become a bad actor.

Open new wallet2 and send 1 coin from wallet 1--> wallet 2. Shutdown Wallet 1

Become bad actor.

Repeat that over and over and you do the math on how this can be scaled out to attack the network and as you steal more coins can exponentially grow the attack footprint.

[voxelot]

I hope you do seriously think about these things because there are a few other large security risks I can see from this design.

So to all those in this thread who keep humming "we have working anonymity".....from my perspective, its not even close.

You will see us at blackhat.  The internet isn't safe I'm afraid.