NEM Official Non-Moderated Thread [Updates & Discussion]

[patmast3r]

One thing I can honestly say about this project. If you honestly wanted a say in what happens with the leftover stakes, you do have a chance to be heard. Not everyone involved with this coin is a "developer". Try getting involved and you'll see what I mean. Or, you can just sit back, watch, and make comments.

I am contributing by posting my opinion. I personally never liked the distribution plan because it was designed from start to milk as much money as possible. 10%, 15% future, and there was plan for auction which meant even more bitcoins for "developers". The whole thing was designed to milk as much money as possible for "developers" (don't forget 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt during IPO). 

That's a lot of "milking"

Make it 10% for developer, 15% for future, and distribute the rest equally among stakeholders who do claim their coins.

How is that?

Pretty simple

I agree, with the 25% NEM should be fine already, and doesn't need another auction to "milk" more BTC.

Good point. Uncaimed stakes should be divided and distributed to claimed stakeholders. This should be simple and fair.

UP was planning to auction 200 or so "stakes" which meant even more bitcoins for the "developers" -- apart from 10% and 15%  and 66 BTC and several thousand nxt during IPO. This "auction" idea was designed to be as self serving as possible.

Really, after all the Nxt bashing, it had the simplest and fairest IPO. Everyone who contributed got  proportion amount of Nxt and there was ZERO development stake. Luckily 25% never showed up to claim their coins and that money went into various groups that community formed and voted (marketing, development, infrastructure, etc). There was nothing complicated or self serving.

How often do I have to tell that we'll deal with it in the best way possible ? The core team will not just take the unclaimed stakes. It will be decided and executed in a transparent manner. Your concerns have been heard. You are requesting actions based on assumptions and that's simply not going to happen if we can just see what happens and then react accordingly.

Also the idea for the auction came from the community so it wasn't designed to milk anyone unless the idea was to milk themselves ?
It's one thing to display concerns but it's just wrong to spread completely incorrect facts.

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[rockethead]

One thing I can honestly say about this project. If you honestly wanted a say in what happens with the leftover stakes, you do have a chance to be heard. Not everyone involved with this coin is a "developer". Try getting involved and you'll see what I mean. Or, you can just sit back, watch, and make comments.

I am contributing by posting my opinion. I personally never liked the distribution plan because it was designed from start to milk as much money as possible. 10%, 15% future, and there was plan for auction which meant even more bitcoins for "developers". The whole thing was designed to milk as much money as possible for "developers" (don't forget 66 BTC and several thousand Nxt during IPO).  

That's a lot of "milking"

Make it 10% for developer, 15% for future, and distribute the rest equally among stakeholders who do claim their coins.

How is that?

Pretty simple

I agree, with the 25% NEM should be fine already, and doesn't need another auction to "milk" more BTC.

Good point. Uncaimed stakes should be divided and distributed to claimed stakeholders. This should be simple and fair.

UP was planning to auction 200 or so "stakes" which meant even more bitcoins for the "developers" -- apart from 10% and 15%  and 66 BTC and several thousand nxt during IPO. This "auction" idea was designed to be as self serving as possible.

Really, after all the Nxt bashing, it had the simplest and fairest IPO. Everyone who contributed got  proportion amount of Nxt and there was ZERO development stake. Luckily 25% never showed up to claim their coins and that money went into various groups that community formed and voted (marketing, development, infrastructure, etc). There was nothing complicated or self serving.

If UP had planned for this then let this thing go on. After all, he has no more interest in this. We cannot and should not belittle the contribution of the developers. At least one has sacrificed and postponed the completion of his PhD to do this. What happens if this fails? They ought to be rewarded handsomely and this commensurate with the value of NEM.

Like I have been emphasising, there has to be a consensus on how we want to spend the balance. There are still a lot to be done. And we will certainly need more developers to get this going. Maybe another 50 more with multiple teams handling multiple projects. Who is going to pay for them? Ambitions must be great, vision must be beyond what we see today. The ecosystem must transcend several notches away from the closest competing coin. Out to market must be instant. All these need resources and not just sitting comfortably on the armchair demanding that this and that must be done while we wait for a few guys to bring the bacon home. This is certainly not in the spirit of NEM.

Poor developers cranking the engine under severe pressure by the community to get the thing launched. Have some sympathy for their effort and think beyond.

[MrPortMan]

Пoчeмy вы в нoвoй тeмe вcё eщё гoвopитe o cтapoм?
Ocтaвьтe вcё cтapoe в тoй cтapoй вeткe a в нoвoй нaчнитe гoвopить иcключитeльнo o иннoвaцияx и o тoм, чтo вы мoжeтe нoвoгo пpивнecти в плaтфopмy Nem?

Личнo я cвoи 2 цeнтa кинyл и пpeдлoжил cдeлaть aнoнимныe чeки в Nem, кoтopыe бyдyт coздaвaтьcя и aктивиpoвaтьcя нeпocpeдcтвeннo в клиeнтe, oбxoдя blockchain. Чepeз blockchain aнoнимныe чeки бyдeт нeвoзмoжнo пpocлeдить. Этo пpямoй вызoв DarkCoin!

-----------------------------

Why you in a new thread still speak about the old?
Leave all old in that old branch and in new start saying only about innovations and what you can new introduce in the Nem platform?

Personally I threw the 2 cents and suggested to make anonymous cheques in Nem which will be directly created and activated in the client, bypassing blockchain. Through blockchain anonymous cheques can't be tracked. It is a direct call of DarkCoin!

[yweetot]

I don't understand, I before has not?

[Eadeqa]

Also the idea for the auction came from the community so it wasn't designed to milk anyone unless the idea was to milk themselves ?
It's one thing to display concerns but it's just wrong to spread completely incorrect facts.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention if that idea came from community. As far as I am concerned,  auction mean selling stakes for bitcoins that obviously are not distributed to community but go again to the "developers"

200 stakes sold at 2 BTC average, 400 BTC, $250,000.

Nice amount for someone ...  

[patmast3r]

Also the idea for the auction came from the community so it wasn't designed to milk anyone unless the idea was to milk themselves ?
It's one thing to display concerns but it's just wrong to spread completely incorrect facts.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention if that idea came from community. As far as I am concerned,  auction mean selling stakes for bitcoins that obviously are not distributed to community but go again to the "developers"

200 stakes sold at 2 BTC average, 400 BTCm, $250,000.

Nice profit.

Where did you even get the information that those would be goign to the devs ?

As usual all attacks against NEM are based on assumptions and missconceptions.

Also there's the posibillity to get refunded. Maybe you should think about that if everything sucks so hard.

[gimre]

I'd like to share some more details about stuff core devs were doing.

It's not strict division, as everyone worked/are working on part called nem.core,
and everyone changed something in some other parts, so treat following as "orientation map" only.

Jaguar0625 - NIS: networking, keeping code at high quality, everything , NCC
Thies - NIS: webstart, networking, NCC: ncc APIs
Gimre - NIS, db, sync, nis APIs, NCC
Makoto - NIS, POI
BloodyRookie NIS, POI, math, sync, NCC

[rockethead]

Also the idea for the auction came from the community so it wasn't designed to milk anyone unless the idea was to milk themselves ?
It's one thing to display concerns but it's just wrong to spread completely incorrect facts.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention if that idea came from community. As far as I am concerned,  auction mean selling stakes for bitcoins that obviously are not distributed to community but go again to the "developers"

200 stakes sold at 2 BTC average, 400 BTC, $250,000.

Nice amount for someone ...  

So who is that someone?...Please enlighten. Please do not assume. Plus instead of auctioning, give the stakes away, so that everyone can dump them following that? That's against your very own claim that they should not be given away free.

I would like to hear a few options from you, not just giving away for free. Let the community know why this should be given away free to the stakeholders. Like you, I am dead against giving away free. But unlike you, which is an oxymoron, I am also dead against giving back to the stakeholders because, it is still giving away free.

[rockethead]

I'd like to share some more details about stuff core devs were doing.

It's not strict division, as everyone worked/are working on part called nem.core,
and everyone changed something in some other parts, so treat following as "orientation map" only.

Jaguar0625 - NIS: networking, keeping code at high quality, everything , NCC
Thies - NIS: webstart, networking, NCC: ncc APIs
Gimre - NIS, db, sync, nis APIs, NCC
Makoto - NIS, POI
BloodyRookie NIS, POI, math, sync, NCC

Great job!

[xtester]

I'll repost it here, just in case someone missed it.

I looks like the old NEM thread was locked before I could post my response. In any event, these are my thoughts:

I'm saddened and disappointed by what has happened today. There is no excuse for what utopianfuture did. It's unprofessional to bash another coin anonymously using sockpuppet accounts. It's worse that those same sockpuppet accounts were used to sign up for NEM stakes because that goes directly against NEM's fair distribution principle.

Having said all that, I would like to thank utopianfuture for what he has done for NEM up until now. Without utopianfuture, NEM wouldn't exist. He conceived of the idea and recruited a lot of the core dev team, including myself. He has also done a number of things behind the scenes, including paying some out-of-pocket costs (in fiat).

I've heard from a plurality of the core dev team and they mostly share this sentiment. I'm sure I will hear from the rest of the team at some point over the weekend. But, aside from a lot of extra gossip, this transgression shouldn't impact the development of NEM. utopianfuture is not a developer and has not written a single line of code.

I'm hopeful that NEM will emerge from this situation even stronger. NEM was always built around decentralization and fairness and having a single "leader" is really diametrically opposed to that. NEM needs to have a community, not a leader.

As for myself, can you trust me? That's up to you to decide, but I will share a few things:

1. I've never heard of simcoin.
2. I'm to busy coding to have sockpuppet account.
3. I don't have a multiple personality disorder.

Let's try to move forward instead of living in the past. The open alpha is less than two weeks away!

P.S. The core dev team will be reaching out to the community to find someone to lead the marketing and biz-dev of NEM going forward. Understandably, we want to spend most of our time coding until NEM is ready.

P.P.S. I will be on the #ournem IRC channel for the next half hour if anyone has questions for me.

1. No one inside core team was aware of UF accounts.
2. Without UF, there would be NO NEM at all. HE recruited all the people.

Let's move on.

Agree.

[xtester]

I'd like to share some more details about stuff core devs were doing.

It's not strict division, as everyone worked/are working on part called nem.core,
and everyone changed something in some other parts, so treat following as "orientation map" only.

Jaguar0625 - NIS: networking, keeping code at high quality, everything , NCC
Thies - NIS: webstart, networking, NCC: ncc APIs
Gimre - NIS, db, sync, nis APIs, NCC
Makoto - NIS, POI
BloodyRookie NIS, POI, math, sync, NCC

Good job guys and thanks for the info.

[instacalm]

UP shouldn't have locked the original thread

[PondSea]

No one has confirmed how many stakes/ socks he had?

If all were removed why was the latest one and the only one we know of removed from the list recently?

[jubalix]

ok

NEM {and legit IPO's] needs some sort of new Governance structure with independent oversight.

I may do this and will declare all sock puppets up front [if any]. [It is safer to assume everyone has sock puppets.]

sort of snapchat for verification or something like that, to a trusted party that will disintegrate ID's

an escrow for ID's if you will, send through cypto and destroyed after verification. Fee involved of course to keep Independence.

I call this proof of person. POP.

[jabo38]

I'd like to share some more details about stuff core devs were doing.

It's not strict division, as everyone worked/are working on part called nem.core,
and everyone changed something in some other parts, so treat following as "orientation map" only.

Jaguar0625 - NIS: networking, keeping code at high quality, everything , NCC
Thies - NIS: webstart, networking, NCC: ncc APIs
Gimre - NIS, db, sync, nis APIs, NCC
Makoto - NIS, POI
BloodyRookie NIS, POI, math, sync, NCC

These guys are real and not scammers or sock puppets.  When NXT came out they were going through the code. They even found bugs and one found one of the hidden traps in NXT.

After digging through the NXT code they have come together to make NEM.

[NorrisK]

Also the idea for the auction came from the community so it wasn't designed to milk anyone unless the idea was to milk themselves ?
It's one thing to display concerns but it's just wrong to spread completely incorrect facts.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention if that idea came from community. As far as I am concerned,  auction mean selling stakes for bitcoins that obviously are not distributed to community but go again to the "developers"

200 stakes sold at 2 BTC average, 400 BTC, $250,000.

Nice amount for someone ...  

So who is that someone?...Please enlighten. Please do not assume. Plus instead of auctioning, give the stakes away, so that everyone can dump them following that? That's against your very own claim that they should not be given away free.

I would like to hear a few options from you, not just giving away for free. Let the community know why this should be given away free to the stakeholders. Like you, I am dead against giving away free. But unlike you, which is an oxymoron, I am also dead against giving back to the stakeholders because, it is still giving away free.

I feel it should be used for professional marketing, supporting projects related to the use of nem and for outsourcing stuff if  needed for fast release.

[griffinriz]

Now NEM community needs to concentrate solely on promoting NEM and lets forget about UP   . Whatever he did was wrong but he created NEM that was the best thing about him.

[jnuqsx]

After the earthquake, well, back to the NEM community

[EFFV]

ok

NEM {and legit IPO's] needs some sort of new Governance structure with independent oversight.

I may do this and will declare all sock puppets up front [if any]. [It is safer to assume everyone has sock puppets.]

sort of snapchat for verification or something like that, to a trusted party that will disintegrate ID's

an escrow for ID's if you will, send through cypto and destroyed after verification. Fee involved of course to keep Independence.

I call this proof of person. POP.

We have already gone through multiple series of taint analysis. We have moved past that stage and should now be concerned with marketing and development.

[instacalm]

We have already gone through multiple series of taint analysis. We have moved past that stage and should now be concerned with marketing and development.

As a stakeholder of Nem I would like to ask & know:  how many stakes does UP hold?