NEM (XEM) Official Thread - 100% New Code - Easy To Use APIs

[patmast3r]

Sorry what will be different in NEM relative to NXT, besides the distribution? Some unique features?

This is what i wanted to write...

Sorry what will be different in you relative to the 100 people that already asked this question and got answers in this thread and on forum.nemcoin.com? Any unique skills?

But we're all civilized now so here it goes...

NEM doesn't use POS anymore it uses POI. There is no whitepaper yet but POI adds factors like transactional behaviour to POS to reward people that are important to the economy and not just rich.
That's just the beginnung though. Stick around to find out more.

[mladen00]

Can someone pls send me some test coins

address in signature

[BloodyRookie]

Can someone pls send me some test coins

address in signature

Sent some coins to you.

[luckygenough56]

Can someone pls send me some test coins

address in signature

There u go 

[dandruff1138]

is there any set date yet for the official distribution?

Sometime in the next 3 days as BETA starts in September after being delayed in August.

[Wulfcastle]

is there any set date yet for the official distribution?

Sometime in the next 3 days as BETA starts in September after being delayed in August.

I thought distribution was from the 15-22 October

[umair9829]

I am not a NEM stakeholder but I would like to buy some. The problem is I am not sure if I should go through the trouble and expense of converting BTC to NXT in order to buy on the asset exchange.

If NEM is distributed in October and people convert their tokens to real NEM, where will the trading take place? Is there an exchange lined up?

Did the majority of stakeholders claim tokens? Just trying to determine the most cost efficient way to buy in. Thanks.

[xtester]

is there any set date yet for the official distribution?

Sometime in the next 3 days as BETA starts in September after being delayed in August.

I thought distribution was from the 15-22 October

Yes, this are the dates we are aiming for. I think hopefully there will be some announcements and clarifications about this during the following days.

[xtester]

I am not a NEM stakeholder but I would like to buy some. The problem is I am not sure if I should go through the trouble and expense of converting BTC to NXT in order to buy on the asset exchange.

If NEM is distributed in October and people convert their tokens to real NEM, where will the trading take place? Is there an exchange lined up?

Did the majority of stakeholders claim tokens? Just trying to determine the most cost efficient way to buy in. Thanks.

Hi,

I think it's generally worth buying a coin before the launch, especially if it's NEM.

Trading will take place on exchanges and we will make announcement about that at the right time.

If by tokens you mean assets on the Nxt AE, there were only 685 tokens issued so far, and redemption period(conversion to real NEM) is nearing very fast.

[xtester]

Proof Of Importance? based on what?

POI is based on serveral things: How much NEM you have, how much NEM you are transferring to others, how much NEM other are transferring to you. The exact formula is not set in stone so far. That's we are a little vage how it works in details.

I would really like to see a third aspect which is how long the NEM client/node has been running put in the mix too.  This could help to encourage more people with smaller amounts of NEM to also turn their client on and leave it on in the background.  Hopefully someday the network will be supported by lots and lots of regular people.

Node Coin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=590421.0 has gone with client time (one point per second) and spending score (one point per coin spent) and then which ever Node has the highest score is more likely to harvest.  I think this is good, but they are missing the "coins received" and traditional Proof of Stake found in NEM.  

Crypti has also added proof of merchant, which means that special merchants that register can get a discount on transaction fees.  By doing this, they can also be rated and won't be anonymous.  A trait that we actually want when buying something from another.  Basically as buyers we want to be anonymous and have our privacy protected, but at the same time we want the exact opposite for merchants.  We want merchants out in the open and their history and reputation easily known.  Basically, we want to know who we are sending our money too and what kind of person they are.  This power in reputation has been a huge part of the success of Amazon and Ebay and really should also be incorporated into crypto too.  

I would call this PoS^4

Proof of Stake - Money held in account
Proof of Spend - Money going in and out
Proof of Service - How long a node has been supporting the network
Proof of Status - Registering with the network and allowing a reputation status

Thanks for the interesting thoughts.

[umair9829]

I am not a NEM stakeholder but I would like to buy some. The problem is I am not sure if I should go through the trouble and expense of converting BTC to NXT in order to buy on the asset exchange.

If NEM is distributed in October and people convert their tokens to real NEM, where will the trading take place? Is there an exchange lined up?

Did the majority of stakeholders claim tokens? Just trying to determine the most cost efficient way to buy in. Thanks.

Hi,

I think it's generally worth buying a coin before the launch, especially if it's NEM.

Trading will take place on exchanges and we will make announcement about that at the right time.

If by tokens you mean assets on the Nxt AE, there were only 685 tokens issued so far, and redemption period(conversion to real NEM) is nearing very fast.

Thanks for the info Xtester. So it seems the majority of stakeholders didn't claim tokens, meaning there will be a lot coming onto the market. Normally I would think this means a high potential for dumping, but in NEM's case I can't see why people would dump after holding off for so many months.

I'm going to play it safe - I will buy 50% now on the asset exchange and 50% later when the actual units are being traded somewhere like BTER or Polo.

[dandruff1138]

is there any set date yet for the official distribution?

Sometime in the next 3 days as BETA starts in September after being delayed in August.

I thought distribution was from the 15-22 October

Yes, this are the dates we are aiming for. I think hopefully there will be some announcements and clarifications about this during the following days.

For the full release right? The BETA was supposed to be in September?

[xtester]

is there any set date yet for the official distribution?

Sometime in the next 3 days as BETA starts in September after being delayed in August.

I thought distribution was from the 15-22 October

Yes, this are the dates we are aiming for. I think hopefully there will be some announcements and clarifications about this during the following days.

For the full release right? The BETA was supposed to be in September?

I think you understand well that with all best intentions those were only raw estimates. When people ask about launch dates we have two options: 1) not say anything or 2) put some raw estimates on the table and mention they are not set in stone and could well me modified for countless obvious reasons. As I have said several times our dev team is working very hard to get things done, but with software development sometimes things take more then expected and we have to be conscious of that. So after we will discuss this with the dev team we will hopefully post some announcement soon.

[Raxe.io]

Do we have to convert to NXT AE? If NEM is linked to a forum account it's still ok correct and stakes will be distributed?

[xtester]

Do we have to convert to NXT AE? If NEM is linked to a forum account it's still ok correct and stakes will be distributed?

There's no need to convert to Nxt AE.

Please have a look at this: https://medium.com/@xtester/nem-redemption-process-f90db6b10eef

[NEMergizer]

I am not a NEM stakeholder but I would like to buy some. The problem is I am not sure if I should go through the trouble and expense of converting BTC to NXT in order to buy on the asset exchange.

If NEM is distributed in October and people convert their tokens to real NEM, where will the trading take place? Is there an exchange lined up?

Did the majority of stakeholders claim tokens? Just trying to determine the most cost efficient way to buy in. Thanks.

Hi,

I think it's generally worth buying a coin before the launch, especially if it's NEM.

Trading will take place on exchanges and we will make announcement about that at the right time.

If by tokens you mean assets on the Nxt AE, there were only 685 tokens issued so far, and redemption period(conversion to real NEM) is nearing very fast.

Thanks for the info Xtester. So it seems the majority of stakeholders didn't claim tokens, meaning there will be a lot coming onto the market. Normally I would think this means a high potential for dumping, but in NEM's case I can't see why people would dump after holding off for so many months.

I'm going to play it safe - I will buy 50% now on the asset exchange and 50% later when the actual units are being traded somewhere like BTER or Polo.

Do not wait for the release date to by your second 50%. NEM is currently being traded in NXT AE @ a much lower price than its real value. Actually the current value of a NEM stake should be in the range of 1200$ to 1500$, that is = 40,000 to 50,000 nxt per NEM stake. And at the release date or in a couple of weeks after release date it would easily reach 200,000 NXT per NEMstake. Keep in mind that there are thousands of bitcoiners do not invest in any alts before the release date. I personally have 3 friends that are waiting for NEM release date to buy in. It all comes to your overall investment strategy. For now just be aware that NEM will boom soon even before the release date.

[makoto1337]

Proof Of Importance? based on what?

POI is based on serveral things: How much NEM you have, how much NEM you are transferring to others, how much NEM other are transferring to you. The exact formula is not set in stone so far. That's we are a little vage how it works in details.

I would really like to see a third aspect which is how long the NEM client/node has been running put in the mix too.  This could help to encourage more people with smaller amounts of NEM to also turn their client on and leave it on in the background.  Hopefully someday the network will be supported by lots and lots of regular people.

Node Coin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=590421.0 has gone with client time (one point per second) and spending score (one point per coin spent) and then which ever Node has the highest score is more likely to harvest.  I think this is good, but they are missing the "coins received" and traditional Proof of Stake found in NEM.  

Crypti has also added proof of merchant, which means that special merchants that register can get a discount on transaction fees.  By doing this, they can also be rated and won't be anonymous.  A trait that we actually want when buying something from another.  Basically as buyers we want to be anonymous and have our privacy protected, but at the same time we want the exact opposite for merchants.  We want merchants out in the open and their history and reputation easily known.  Basically, we want to know who we are sending our money too and what kind of person they are.  This power in reputation has been a huge part of the success of Amazon and Ebay and really should also be incorporated into crypto too.  

I would call this PoS^4

Proof of Stake - Money held in account
Proof of Spend - Money going in and out
Proof of Service - How long a node has been supporting the network
Proof of Status - Registering with the network and allowing a reputation status

You wouldn't want to choose harvesters based on just running a node, as that is too easy to attack (you don't want to make it easy for people to be able to control when they harvest). However, we are currently trying to find a way to reward nodes who are active and also have a reputation for sending valid data (as determined by eigentrust++). The problem is, how do you keep track of the active nodes that are online at any given time?

[SomethingElse]

You wouldn't want to choose harvesters based on just running a node, as that is too easy to attack (you don't want to make it easy for people to be able to control when they harvest). However, we are currently trying to find a way to reward nodes who are active and also have a reputation for sending valid data (as determined by eigentrust++). The problem is, how do you keep track of the active nodes that are online at any given time?

The easy answers are of course the bad ones.  You can just make it centralized with gateways and reward active nodes that way.  But of course that is not acceptable. 

One thing in crypto is centralized though and that is the information on the blockchain.  Maintenance of the blockchain is decentralized, but the actual information in the chain itself is a central point of authority that people feel like they can trust (because the maintenance of it has been decentralized).

Another possibly easy answer would be to have the harvesting node issue a colored coin to each node it sees is active when a block is formed.  Yes, not all nodes would get coins, but the nodes that are better connected would and that is a way to reward the more important nodes.  This would of course create serious blockchain bloat and would require additional information on the blockchain for each node that received the coin.  If coins were really scarce, say like each harvester only gave out 10 coins, then it would keep blockchain bloat down.  Each node that had a coin could have their PoI boosted by like 10% or other mathematically sound number.  For all this to be done, there would have to be an asset exchange, said asset would be in each node, but could not be managed or influenced by the owner of the node.  Somehow the algo of each node would have to take into consideration the colored coin that represented time on the network sending valid data.  The more this specific colored coin that a valid and good node has, then the higher its chances of forging.  Once a node has forged, all its colored coins that it had collected would be burned and the node would be starting over from scratch. 

Since the forging node should be in direct contact with the nodes that will be receiving colored coins, I guess it would have to send each node individually some kind of encrypted key that would be used to unlock the colored coin from the blockchain.  So basically the forging node writes to the blockchain that so and so accounts should receive a colored coin but that information is encrypted and then accounts that were to unlock the colored coin would have to have their coin specific one-time passphrase that was generated by the forging node and sent to them directly as they were connecting peers. 

Again this algo changing colored coin for contributing to the network would be hard to create, could probably be hacked, and even if it worked would create bloat.  Again, a kind of easy way out, but maybe not a good one. 

I think NXT has an asset that is awarded to each forging node that makes a block, but it isn't worth much, probably isn't automated as part of the forging process, and definitely has no influence on PoS. 

In short, to answer you question.  I am really not sure.  It seems like a touch question to answer. 

[makoto1337]

You wouldn't want to choose harvesters based on just running a node, as that is too easy to attack (you don't want to make it easy for people to be able to control when they harvest). However, we are currently trying to find a way to reward nodes who are active and also have a reputation for sending valid data (as determined by eigentrust++). The problem is, how do you keep track of the active nodes that are online at any given time?

The easy answers are of course the bad ones.  You can just make it centralized with gateways and reward active nodes that way.  But of course that is not acceptable. 

One thing in crypto is centralized though and that is the information on the blockchain.  Maintenance of the blockchain is decentralized, but the actual information in the chain itself is a central point of authority that people feel like they can trust (because the maintenance of it has been decentralized).

Another possibly easy answer would be to have the harvesting node issue a colored coin to each node it sees is active when a block is formed.  Yes, not all nodes would get coins, but the nodes that are better connected would and that is a way to reward the more important nodes.  This would of course create serious blockchain bloat and would require additional information on the blockchain for each node that received the coin.  If coins were really scarce, say like each harvester only gave out 10 coins, then it would keep blockchain bloat down.  Each node that had a coin could have their PoI boosted by like 10% or other mathematically sound number.  For all this to be done, there would have to be an asset exchange, said asset would be in each node, but could not be managed or influenced by the owner of the node.  Somehow the algo of each node would have to take into consideration the colored coin that represented time on the network sending valid data.  The more this specific colored coin that a valid and good node has, then the higher its chances of forging.  Once a node has forged, all its colored coins that it had collected would be burned and the node would be starting over from scratch. 

Since the forging node should be in direct contact with the nodes that will be receiving colored coins, I guess it would have to send each node individually some kind of encrypted key that would be used to unlock the colored coin from the blockchain.  So basically the forging node writes to the blockchain that so and so accounts should receive a colored coin but that information is encrypted and then accounts that were to unlock the colored coin would have to have their coin specific one-time passphrase that was generated by the forging node and sent to them directly as they were connecting peers. 

Again this algo changing colored coin for contributing to the network would be hard to create, could probably be hacked, and even if it worked would create bloat.  Again, a kind of easy way out, but maybe not a good one. 

I think NXT has an asset that is awarded to each forging node that makes a block, but it isn't worth much, probably isn't automated as part of the forging process, and definitely has no influence on PoS. 

In short, to answer you question.  I am really not sure.  It seems like a touch question to answer. 

Yes, it is a hard problem

Your answer of rewarding accounts that are seen by harvesters is an interesting answer. However, it might cause the network to centralize around those with high importance, if people can edit their client to connect to specified IPs. It'd be nice if there was a way to randomly sample a large portion of the network while still making things verifiable (those who are active should be known by everyone somehow, otherwise a harvester could just lie and send a bunch of NEM/tokens to his own accounts).

[SomethingElse]

Just throwing around ideas and brainstorming. 

Each account number has a last number or letter.  It could be a lottery, a random letter or number could be chosen during the harvesting process and then the first 10 nodes that check in with the harvester that have that chosen random letter/number as a last number/letter ending their account number get the token.  To game the system a person would have to set up a lot of nodes, which ultimately would be good for the network.  That is 1/36 chance of getting the token.  If you want to make it more scarce, then the last two digits of an account number would make a 1/1296 chance.  Surely somebody wouldn't set up that many nodes just to get some tokens that make a difference but not that much of a difference.

I guess to implement this there would have to be some master nodes that as a part of their duties connect to as many lower level nodes as possible (I am guessing either at least 36 or 1296 if each master node was responsible for each possibility, or another route could be that master nodes just connect to whoever).  I think NXT works that way.  Anybody running a client is kind of like a node, but not really because it is actually more complicated to set up a real node and once the real nodes are set up, they are somehow a little more trusted.  At this point I am not sure but it seems like the system would be moving away from true decentralization and more towards distributed depending on exactly how this was done.  I'd rather hope NEM is fully decentralized.