OpenBazaar - decentralized eBay

[knight22]

OpenBazaar is a great concept, and from the moment I learned of bitcoin, I kept wanting to build something like this myself (though sadly I never got around to it).

I think the beauty of the idea is that since it's decentralized by nature, anyone can build their own 'eBay' site/app to list the many products/services available throughout OpenBazaar.  It would be like if eBay was open source and you didn't have to ever go to 'ebay.com' to buy/sell anything.  I think early on this sort of concept would be best opened to developers to build applications/sites through which the later wave of public users could actually use.  At this stage, it's too early for wide usage.

The major flaw though is that there is no incentive for arbitrators because there are no fees.  And because there are no incentives for arbitrators, there will be a lot of scams abound ... or you'll have to rely on building trust over time; trustworthy buyers and repeat customers.  So, I don't see this turning into eBay per se, but more of a decentralized e-commerce platform for shops, though still, it can easily become scam central.

Really, in the end, unfortunately it will work best for dark markets, which may in effect possibly drive up bitcoin transactions more than legal markets.  Regardless of how much the OpenBazaar team claims to be against the sale of illegal goods/services, this platform will be best used for that purpose.

For it to work well for legal goods/services, there would have to be a fee structure with incentives for arbitrators/escrow services.

There will be fees to the arbitrators if arbitrage is needed. No fees apply only if the trade goes smooth.

I think this could potentially result in arbitrators receiving a higher then warranted level of trust within the community. The arbitrator could "oversee" hundreds of transactions and never have to intervene with their trust getting built up, however their judgement nor their ability to be trusted would be tested. This could result in people being able to scam because the arbitrator does not know how to tell a scam is being pulled off or because the arbitrator is in on the scam

It all depend on how the reputation system will work but I find very unlikely the arbitrators will receive any fees nor reputation "points" for transactions that went smooth and therefore didn't require their services.

[mnmShadyBTC]

OpenBazaar is a great concept, and from the moment I learned of bitcoin, I kept wanting to build something like this myself (though sadly I never got around to it).

I think the beauty of the idea is that since it's decentralized by nature, anyone can build their own 'eBay' site/app to list the many products/services available throughout OpenBazaar.  It would be like if eBay was open source and you didn't have to ever go to 'ebay.com' to buy/sell anything.  I think early on this sort of concept would be best opened to developers to build applications/sites through which the later wave of public users could actually use.  At this stage, it's too early for wide usage.

The major flaw though is that there is no incentive for arbitrators because there are no fees.  And because there are no incentives for arbitrators, there will be a lot of scams abound ... or you'll have to rely on building trust over time; trustworthy buyers and repeat customers.  So, I don't see this turning into eBay per se, but more of a decentralized e-commerce platform for shops, though still, it can easily become scam central.

Really, in the end, unfortunately it will work best for dark markets, which may in effect possibly drive up bitcoin transactions more than legal markets.  Regardless of how much the OpenBazaar team claims to be against the sale of illegal goods/services, this platform will be best used for that purpose.

For it to work well for legal goods/services, there would have to be a fee structure with incentives for arbitrators/escrow services.

There will be fees to the arbitrators if arbitrage is needed. No fees apply only if the trade goes smooth.

I think this could potentially result in arbitrators receiving a higher then warranted level of trust within the community. The arbitrator could "oversee" hundreds of transactions and never have to intervene with their trust getting built up, however their judgement nor their ability to be trusted would be tested. This could result in people being able to scam because the arbitrator does not know how to tell a scam is being pulled off or because the arbitrator is in on the scam

It all depend on how the reputation system will work but I find very unlikely the arbitrators will receive any fees nor reputation "points" for transactions that went smooth and therefore didn't require their services.

I would think that "escrow" would receive something for a smooth transaction. If they only received credit for the mediated transactions then one party would likely always say they acted unfairly (otherwise they would not have had to step in the first place). Also if the escrow only gives a partial refund to one party then both parties could potentially give negative feedback because they do not agree.

I can't see any situation where escrow would receive anything except for when they are not needed to mediate

[knight22]

OpenBazaar is a great concept, and from the moment I learned of bitcoin, I kept wanting to build something like this myself (though sadly I never got around to it).

I think the beauty of the idea is that since it's decentralized by nature, anyone can build their own 'eBay' site/app to list the many products/services available throughout OpenBazaar.  It would be like if eBay was open source and you didn't have to ever go to 'ebay.com' to buy/sell anything.  I think early on this sort of concept would be best opened to developers to build applications/sites through which the later wave of public users could actually use.  At this stage, it's too early for wide usage.

The major flaw though is that there is no incentive for arbitrators because there are no fees.  And because there are no incentives for arbitrators, there will be a lot of scams abound ... or you'll have to rely on building trust over time; trustworthy buyers and repeat customers.  So, I don't see this turning into eBay per se, but more of a decentralized e-commerce platform for shops, though still, it can easily become scam central.

Really, in the end, unfortunately it will work best for dark markets, which may in effect possibly drive up bitcoin transactions more than legal markets.  Regardless of how much the OpenBazaar team claims to be against the sale of illegal goods/services, this platform will be best used for that purpose.

For it to work well for legal goods/services, there would have to be a fee structure with incentives for arbitrators/escrow services.

There will be fees to the arbitrators if arbitrage is needed. No fees apply only if the trade goes smooth.

I think this could potentially result in arbitrators receiving a higher then warranted level of trust within the community. The arbitrator could "oversee" hundreds of transactions and never have to intervene with their trust getting built up, however their judgement nor their ability to be trusted would be tested. This could result in people being able to scam because the arbitrator does not know how to tell a scam is being pulled off or because the arbitrator is in on the scam

It all depend on how the reputation system will work but I find very unlikely the arbitrators will receive any fees nor reputation "points" for transactions that went smooth and therefore didn't require their services.

I would think that "escrow" would receive something for a smooth transaction. If they only received credit for the mediated transactions then one party would likely always say they acted unfairly (otherwise they would not have had to step in the first place). Also if the escrow only gives a partial refund to one party then both parties could potentially give negative feedback because they do not agree.

I can't see any situation where escrow would receive anything except for when they are not needed to mediate

I'm not sure to get your point. If a transaction when through smoothly it means that both party (seller and buyer) would agree to sign the transaction. The escrow signature is therefore not being used so both parties shouldn't have the ability to vote either good or bad  and have a neutral effect on the escrow's reputation. Escrows don't have to step for transactions that go smooth.

[juicyjuice87]

Who gets the profits from this?

[BitCoinNutJob]

Who gets the profits from this?

Buyers and sellers simple.  Just like the bitcoin network.

The developers "profit" from donations to start the platform.

Something i was wondering was what is stopping sellers from listing huge tons of items or duplicates and flooding the site.  This doesnt happen on ebay due to listing fees.

[angeloanggam]

Who gets the profits from this?

I am not really sure.. I think the developers gets the profit.

[cbeast]

Who gets the profits from this?

Buyers and sellers simple.  Just like the bitcoin network.

The developers "profit" from donations to start the platform.

Something i was wondering was what is stopping sellers from listing huge tons of items or duplicates and flooding the site.  This doesnt happen on ebay due to listing fees.

There will be a built-in rating system. I imagine portals will spring up as well.

[knight22]

Who gets the profits from this?

I am not really sure.. I think the developers gets the profit.

There's no profits. OpenBazaar is open source project.

[iwillwin]

Does ebay charge 15% fees ? And does Paypal steals our money ? Please tell me more about it. This is something I have never heard !! 

[inBitweTrust]

Does ebay charge 15% fees ? And does Paypal steals our money ? Please tell me more about it. This is something I have never heard !! 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html

[2dogs]

A few weeks old, but still good info on OpenBazaar:

Bitcoins and Gravy Episode #36: Airbitz.co & OpenBazaar.org

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/bitcoins-and-gravy-episode-36-airbitzco-openbazaarorg

[SomethingElse]

OpenBazaar is a great concept, and from the moment I learned of bitcoin, I kept wanting to build something like this myself (though sadly I never got around to it).

I think the beauty of the idea is that since it's decentralized by nature, anyone can build their own 'eBay' site/app to list the many products/services available throughout OpenBazaar.  It would be like if eBay was open source and you didn't have to ever go to 'ebay.com' to buy/sell anything.  I think early on this sort of concept would be best opened to developers to build applications/sites through which the later wave of public users could actually use.  At this stage, it's too early for wide usage.

The major flaw though is that there is no incentive for arbitrators because there are no fees.  And because there are no incentives for arbitrators, there will be a lot of scams abound ... or you'll have to rely on building trust over time; trustworthy buyers and repeat customers.  So, I don't see this turning into eBay per se, but more of a decentralized e-commerce platform for shops, though still, it can easily become scam central.

Really, in the end, unfortunately it will work best for dark markets, which may in effect possibly drive up bitcoin transactions more than legal markets.  Regardless of how much the OpenBazaar team claims to be against the sale of illegal goods/services, this platform will be best used for that purpose.

For it to work well for legal goods/services, there would have to be a fee structure with incentives for arbitrators/escrow services.

I agree.  And the reputation system at this point seems quite complicated with algos behind the scenes.  I am guessing as time goes on, it might get even more complicated.  

Still, it is the reputation system that will make or break this project.  If they figure out a way to make this happen, it can be one of the greatest markets and a true internet 2.0 market.  

There will be fees to the arbitrators if arbitrage is needed. No fees apply only if the trade goes smooth.

I think this could potentially result in arbitrators receiving a higher then warranted level of trust within the community. The arbitrator could "oversee" hundreds of transactions and never have to intervene with their trust getting built up, however their judgement nor their ability to be trusted would be tested. This could result in people being able to scam because the arbitrator does not know how to tell a scam is being pulled off or because the arbitrator is in on the scam

It all depends on how the reputation system will work but I find very unlikely the arbitrators will receive any fees nor reputation "points" for transactions that went smooth and therefore didn't require their services.

[santaClause]

OpenBazaar is a great concept, and from the moment I learned of bitcoin, I kept wanting to build something like this myself (though sadly I never got around to it).

I think the beauty of the idea is that since it's decentralized by nature, anyone can build their own 'eBay' site/app to list the many products/services available throughout OpenBazaar.  It would be like if eBay was open source and you didn't have to ever go to 'ebay.com' to buy/sell anything.  I think early on this sort of concept would be best opened to developers to build applications/sites through which the later wave of public users could actually use.  At this stage, it's too early for wide usage.

The major flaw though is that there is no incentive for arbitrators because there are no fees.  And because there are no incentives for arbitrators, there will be a lot of scams abound ... or you'll have to rely on building trust over time; trustworthy buyers and repeat customers.  So, I don't see this turning into eBay per se, but more of a decentralized e-commerce platform for shops, though still, it can easily become scam central.

Really, in the end, unfortunately it will work best for dark markets, which may in effect possibly drive up bitcoin transactions more than legal markets.  Regardless of how much the OpenBazaar team claims to be against the sale of illegal goods/services, this platform will be best used for that purpose.

For it to work well for legal goods/services, there would have to be a fee structure with incentives for arbitrators/escrow services.

I agree.  And the reputation system at this point seems quite complicated with algos behind the scenes.  I am guessing as time goes on, it might get even more complicated.  

Still, it is the reputation system that will make or break this project.  If they figure out a way to make this happen, it can be one of the greatest markets and a true internet 2.0 market.  

There will be fees to the arbitrators if arbitrage is needed. No fees apply only if the trade goes smooth.

I think this could potentially result in arbitrators receiving a higher then warranted level of trust within the community. The arbitrator could "oversee" hundreds of transactions and never have to intervene with their trust getting built up, however their judgement nor their ability to be trusted would be tested. This could result in people being able to scam because the arbitrator does not know how to tell a scam is being pulled off or because the arbitrator is in on the scam

It all depends on how the reputation system will work but I find very unlikely the arbitrators will receive any fees nor reputation "points" for transactions that went smooth and therefore didn't require their services.

If this was the case then how would escrow services get reputation points in the first place? It has been mentioned there would be "proof of burn" to start with, but what about after that? If the escrow service sides with either the buyer or the seller then the person they did not side with would almost certainly give negative feedback. This would essentially make it impossible for an escrow to ever gain a positive amount of reputation regardless of their honesty

[knight22]

OpenBazaar is a great concept, and from the moment I learned of bitcoin, I kept wanting to build something like this myself (though sadly I never got around to it).

I think the beauty of the idea is that since it's decentralized by nature, anyone can build their own 'eBay' site/app to list the many products/services available throughout OpenBazaar.  It would be like if eBay was open source and you didn't have to ever go to 'ebay.com' to buy/sell anything.  I think early on this sort of concept would be best opened to developers to build applications/sites through which the later wave of public users could actually use.  At this stage, it's too early for wide usage.

The major flaw though is that there is no incentive for arbitrators because there are no fees.  And because there are no incentives for arbitrators, there will be a lot of scams abound ... or you'll have to rely on building trust over time; trustworthy buyers and repeat customers.  So, I don't see this turning into eBay per se, but more of a decentralized e-commerce platform for shops, though still, it can easily become scam central.

Really, in the end, unfortunately it will work best for dark markets, which may in effect possibly drive up bitcoin transactions more than legal markets.  Regardless of how much the OpenBazaar team claims to be against the sale of illegal goods/services, this platform will be best used for that purpose.

For it to work well for legal goods/services, there would have to be a fee structure with incentives for arbitrators/escrow services.

I agree.  And the reputation system at this point seems quite complicated with algos behind the scenes.  I am guessing as time goes on, it might get even more complicated.  

Still, it is the reputation system that will make or break this project.  If they figure out a way to make this happen, it can be one of the greatest markets and a true internet 2.0 market.  

There will be fees to the arbitrators if arbitrage is needed. No fees apply only if the trade goes smooth.

I think this could potentially result in arbitrators receiving a higher then warranted level of trust within the community. The arbitrator could "oversee" hundreds of transactions and never have to intervene with their trust getting built up, however their judgement nor their ability to be trusted would be tested. This could result in people being able to scam because the arbitrator does not know how to tell a scam is being pulled off or because the arbitrator is in on the scam

It all depends on how the reputation system will work but I find very unlikely the arbitrators will receive any fees nor reputation "points" for transactions that went smooth and therefore didn't require their services.

If this was the case then how would escrow services get reputation points in the first place? It has been mentioned there would be "proof of burn" to start with, but what about after that? If the escrow service sides with either the buyer or the seller then the person they did not side with would almost certainly give negative feedback. This would essentially make it impossible for an escrow to ever gain a positive amount of reputation regardless of their honesty

Sam Patterson answered how this escrow reputation system will work here: https://libertyme.adobeconnect.com/p3r3kbbd7oe/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal

Basically they are still trying to figure it out. They want to introduce a pool of arbitrators that will vote to attribute an arbitrator for each case to make it harder for someone to scam and become it's own arbitrator.

[ANTIcentralized]

Sam Patterson answered how this escrow reputation system will work here: https://libertyme.adobeconnect.com/p3r3kbbd7oe/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal

Basically they are still trying to figure it out. They want to introduce a pool of arbitrators that will vote to attribute an arbitrator for each case to make it harder for someone to scam and become it's own arbitrator.

This is not very reassuring, nor would it want me to be comfortable trusting my hard-earned money at the marketplace.

If an arbitrator must be "voted in" by existing arbitrators then someone could potentially buy up a lot of arbitrator accounts to create additional arbitrator accounts which would further the attacker's ability to scam.

[knight22]

Sam Patterson answered how this escrow reputation system will work here: https://libertyme.adobeconnect.com/p3r3kbbd7oe/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal

Basically they are still trying to figure it out. They want to introduce a pool of arbitrators that will vote to attribute an arbitrator for each case to make it harder for someone to scam and become it's own arbitrator.

This is not very reassuring, nor would it want me to be comfortable trusting my hard-earned money at the marketplace.

If an arbitrator must be "voted in" by existing arbitrators then someone could potentially buy up a lot of arbitrator accounts to create additional arbitrator accounts which would further the attacker's ability to scam.

Seems pretty far stretched IMO. Keep in mind there will be a reputation system for arbitrator. Buying a lot of good reputation to make scams wouldn't last very long before any body figure it out and all reputations of these account will be affected. That would be a very costly and risky scam operation.

[ANTIcentralized]

Sam Patterson answered how this escrow reputation system will work here: https://libertyme.adobeconnect.com/p3r3kbbd7oe/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal

Basically they are still trying to figure it out. They want to introduce a pool of arbitrators that will vote to attribute an arbitrator for each case to make it harder for someone to scam and become it's own arbitrator.

This is not very reassuring, nor would it want me to be comfortable trusting my hard-earned money at the marketplace.

If an arbitrator must be "voted in" by existing arbitrators then someone could potentially buy up a lot of arbitrator accounts to create additional arbitrator accounts which would further the attacker's ability to scam.

Seems pretty far stretched IMO. Keep in mind there will be a reputation system for arbitrator. Buying a lot of good reputation to make scams wouldn't last very long before any body figure it out and all reputations of these account will be affected. That would be a very costly and risky scam operation.

Someone could buy up a bunch of accounts with positive reputation and these accounts with positive reputation would vote their "scam" accounts to be an arbitrator. The accounts that are purchased would continue to act honestly, but the accounts that were "voted in" would not be honest

[knight22]

Sam Patterson answered how this escrow reputation system will work here: https://libertyme.adobeconnect.com/p3r3kbbd7oe/?launcher=false&fcsContent=true&pbMode=normal

Basically they are still trying to figure it out. They want to introduce a pool of arbitrators that will vote to attribute an arbitrator for each case to make it harder for someone to scam and become it's own arbitrator.

This is not very reassuring, nor would it want me to be comfortable trusting my hard-earned money at the marketplace.

If an arbitrator must be "voted in" by existing arbitrators then someone could potentially buy up a lot of arbitrator accounts to create additional arbitrator accounts which would further the attacker's ability to scam.

Seems pretty far stretched IMO. Keep in mind there will be a reputation system for arbitrator. Buying a lot of good reputation to make scams wouldn't last very long before any body figure it out and all reputations of these account will be affected. That would be a very costly and risky scam operation.

Someone could buy up a bunch of accounts with positive reputation and these accounts with positive reputation would vote their "scam" accounts to be an arbitrator. The accounts that are purchased would continue to act honestly, but the accounts that were "voted in" would not be honest

It would still require the scammer to highjack the whole voting pool. How many accounts would need a scammer to vote himself as arbitrator every single time? At what cost? It still seems far stretched to me. If the arbitrators that vote are chosen through a random process among the best reputations, that would make almost impossible such attacks.

[knight22]

Any windows release date the team is shooting for?

Maybe Beta 3.0. Just maybe.

[remotemass]

Roadmap:
https://github.com/OpenBazaar/OpenBazaar/wiki/Development-Roadmap