OpenBazaar - decentralized eBay

[WhatTheGox]

Great interview with openbazaar's Brian Hoffman, lead developer

youtu.be/ijE6ktEsm4o?a 

Seems like a top bloke, i think the end product will be solid.

[fox19891989]

Openbazar is exactly what bitcoin needs. what WE need.
A truly open market. fast. secure. decentralized. free. anonymous.
This is the crypto-revolution.
This is it!

If Openbazaar will be widely used, I am pretty sure that bitcoin will be 3000 USD per coin, let's see how does bitcoin change the world. 

[eerygarden]

Openbazar is exactly what bitcoin needs. what WE need.
A truly open market. fast. secure. decentralized. free. anonymous.
This is the crypto-revolution.
This is it!

If Openbazaar will be widely used, I am pretty sure that bitcoin will be 3000 USD per coin, let's see how does bitcoin change the world. 

This is it? Don't say that. Michael Jackson tried to say that and look what ended up happening to him.

[TheButterZone]

3.2.1 Bitcoin Payments and Escrow

All trade over OpenBazaar exclusively uses Bitcoin. OpenBazaar will support four payment options with Bitcoin:

    Direct payment
        Alice transfers bitcoin to Bob in a simple payment
    Double-deposit 'MAD' escrow
        Alice and Bob create a 2-of-2 multisignature escrow address
        Alice and Bob need to agree to release funds from that address
    Notary escrow
        Alice, Bob, and Charlie (a third party 'notary') create a 2-of-3 multisignature escrow address
        Two members of this party are required to release funds from the address
    Notary pooled escrow
        Alice, Bob, and others (multiple third party notaries) create a n-of-m multisignature escrow address
        Multiple parties from the pool of notaries are required to release funds from the address

[knight22]

3.2.1 Bitcoin Payments and Escrow

All trade over OpenBazaar exclusively uses Bitcoin. OpenBazaar will support four payment options with Bitcoin:

    Direct payment
        Alice transfers bitcoin to Bob in a simple payment
    Double-deposit 'MAD' escrow
        Alice and Bob create a 2-of-2 multisignature escrow address
        Alice and Bob need to agree to release funds from that address
    Notary escrow
        Alice, Bob, and Charlie (a third party 'notary') create a 2-of-3 multisignature escrow address
        Two members of this party are required to release funds from the address
    Notary pooled escrow
        Alice, Bob, and others (multiple third party notaries) create a n-of-m multisignature escrow address
        Multiple parties from the pool of notaries are required to release funds from the address

Interesting. I just hope too many options won't confuse Joe normal from using OpenBazaar.

[Finchy]

The escrow system on OB is definitely going to be the weak link. I think with any transaction involving bitcoin someone is going to have to trust someone else somewhere but that's where the opportunity is for something bad to happen. Escrow is also going to be really difficult for them to judge certain things as well (buyer says he received the item but it was a box of bricks and not a macbook etc - what do they do then?).

Same as ebay customer service does. Scanned receipts, pictures of the item, delivery tracking, etc.

Except this is where honest people can get scammed. If I sell an laptop but send a laptop box with nothing but sand in it to the exact weight of the laptop then how can anyone prove otherwise? All I can prove is I sent something that weighs the same as the laptop and the buyer signed for it. Either party can claim wrongdoing and scam whether a laptop or box of sand was sent. This is why it's not watertight and you would hope it doesn't happen but as we know from this forum scammers are rife and will do anything they can to make their money.

[TheButterZone]

The escrow system on OB is definitely going to be the weak link. I think with any transaction involving bitcoin someone is going to have to trust someone else somewhere but that's where the opportunity is for something bad to happen. Escrow is also going to be really difficult for them to judge certain things as well (buyer says he received the item but it was a box of bricks and not a macbook etc - what do they do then?).

Same as ebay customer service does. Scanned receipts, pictures of the item, delivery tracking, etc.

Except this is where honest people can get scammed. If I sell an laptop but send a laptop box with nothing but sand in it to the exact weight of the laptop then how can anyone prove otherwise? All I can prove is I sent something that weighs the same as the laptop and the buyer signed for it. Either party can claim wrongdoing and scam whether a laptop or box of sand was sent. This is why it's not watertight and you would hope it doesn't happen but as we know from this forum scammers are rife and will do anything they can to make their money.

Shipping services only care if you underweigh your item. It's well known that you can ship an empty box and they'll thank you for overpaying them. This is how an escrow scammer got Bitmit to hold the payment from being refunded to their buyer, despite Bitmit saying an unboxing video was ok for evidence, and then when it was provided showing the cutting open of an empty box, with the seller's paid shipping label, with no evident retaping, Bitmit reneged. In the end the escrow scammer capitulated and let Bitmit refund.

[knight22]

The escrow system on OB is definitely going to be the weak link. I think with any transaction involving bitcoin someone is going to have to trust someone else somewhere but that's where the opportunity is for something bad to happen. Escrow is also going to be really difficult for them to judge certain things as well (buyer says he received the item but it was a box of bricks and not a macbook etc - what do they do then?).

Same as ebay customer service does. Scanned receipts, pictures of the item, delivery tracking, etc.

Except this is where honest people can get scammed. If I sell an laptop but send a laptop box with nothing but sand in it to the exact weight of the laptop then how can anyone prove otherwise? All I can prove is I sent something that weighs the same as the laptop and the buyer signed for it. Either party can claim wrongdoing and scam whether a laptop or box of sand was sent. This is why it's not watertight and you would hope it doesn't happen but as we know from this forum scammers are rife and will do anything they can to make their money.

Internet trades for physical items will never be watertight. Even Ebay isn't.

[knowhow]

well always bad peoples everywhere ,the escrow system should works,if they put on sell a macbook the money will be sent only when the buyer open it and see that is a macbook otherwise the seller would sell the product ,and the buyer would get the money back,pretty sure this will be a sucess just need to be safe to all not just for some

[Elwar]

The escrow system on OB is definitely going to be the weak link. I think with any transaction involving bitcoin someone is going to have to trust someone else somewhere but that's where the opportunity is for something bad to happen. Escrow is also going to be really difficult for them to judge certain things as well (buyer says he received the item but it was a box of bricks and not a macbook etc - what do they do then?).

Same as ebay customer service does. Scanned receipts, pictures of the item, delivery tracking, etc.

Except this is where honest people can get scammed. If I sell an laptop but send a laptop box with nothing but sand in it to the exact weight of the laptop then how can anyone prove otherwise? All I can prove is I sent something that weighs the same as the laptop and the buyer signed for it. Either party can claim wrongdoing and scam whether a laptop or box of sand was sent. This is why it's not watertight and you would hope it doesn't happen but as we know from this forum scammers are rife and will do anything they can to make their money.

When shopping for a laptop on a network with no customer service will you choose to buy one cheaper from the guy with 0 sales and a 0 rating or the guy with 200 sales and a 100% rating?

See how long that guy's business will keep his 100% rating if he starts sending a box of sand.

[PenguinFire]

This is very interesting to me.     I was a big ebayer back in 2010 as a drop shipper.  I never made much but I did have some fun with it.   

[OmegaStarScream]

Speaking about the rating and the escrow systems again here .
Shouldn't account creation or  application or whatever stick to one IP or something ? I mean at the begining and the opening of this software "OpenBazaar" all people will be basically with 0% rating so we can't avoid some scamming at the beggining I guess and people will just keep doing it and come back with other accounts or to whatever the account is related to .
Agree with the user above too , in fact you can do this in Amazon and not only OpenBazaar ... the escrow will be believe who exactly and what he is going to do if both parties claim something (one did n't receive it , and other claim that he did send)    I don't think that this project is going to work out , don't get me wrong I want from this project to success more then anyone here most likely but I just don't see how it's gonna work

[domob]

When I last looked at OpenBazaar (currently waiting for the official release), there was a concept of "proof of burn":  One can (optionally) link one's account with a destruction of a certain number of Bitcoins.  This proves to everyone that the account's owner has serious plans with the account (since it cost them money to do this proof), and prevents "throw-away" accounts.  As a buyer, you can only choose sellers who did a certain minimum proof-of-burn on their account (in addition to good ratings).

[Elwar]

Speaking about the rating and the escrow systems again here .
Shouldn't account creation or  application or whatever stick to one IP or something ? I mean at the begining and the opening of this software "OpenBazaar" all people will be basically with 0% rating so we can't avoid some scamming at the beggining I guess and people will just keep doing it and come back with other accounts or to whatever the account is related to .
Agree with the user above too , in fact you can do this in Amazon and not only OpenBazaar ... the escrow will be believe who exactly and what he is going to do if both parties claim something (one did n't receive it , and other claim that he did send)    I don't think that this project is going to work out , don't get me wrong I want from this project to success more then anyone here most likely but I just don't see how it's gonna work

Developers and beta testers will have higher ratings so they are getting early adopter advantage. There will also be companies like OB1 (made up of OpenBazaar developers) that will be doing escrow. Initially people will need to prove themselves in the real world to ensure their trust.

Like I would post a link on here to my OpenBazaar address. You would see that I am not a n00b and it is against my interests to scam people.

[desired_username]

ebay/paypal is cancer. I hope openbazaar will be viable.

[Finchy]

The escrow system on OB is definitely going to be the weak link. I think with any transaction involving bitcoin someone is going to have to trust someone else somewhere but that's where the opportunity is for something bad to happen. Escrow is also going to be really difficult for them to judge certain things as well (buyer says he received the item but it was a box of bricks and not a macbook etc - what do they do then?).

Same as ebay customer service does. Scanned receipts, pictures of the item, delivery tracking, etc.

Except this is where honest people can get scammed. If I sell an laptop but send a laptop box with nothing but sand in it to the exact weight of the laptop then how can anyone prove otherwise? All I can prove is I sent something that weighs the same as the laptop and the buyer signed for it. Either party can claim wrongdoing and scam whether a laptop or box of sand was sent. This is why it's not watertight and you would hope it doesn't happen but as we know from this forum scammers are rife and will do anything they can to make their money.

When shopping for a laptop on a network with no customer service will you choose to buy one cheaper from the guy with 0 sales and a 0 rating or the guy with 200 sales and a 100% rating?

See how long that guy's business will keep his 100% rating if he starts sending a box of sand.

Doesn't matter. He only needs to do it once. Even most scammers have 100% feedback right up until they scam. Can be for bigger items than a laptop as well as that was just an example.

ebay/paypal is cancer. I hope openbazaar will be viable.

It will be viable, but the problem will be building a userbase and that will be a slow progress. Hopefully when people realize they can save a shitload on fees people will flock to it.

[knowhow]

the only thing besides security to run any project online is be honest ,those is getting harder day by day always someone looking for an advantage to proof ,soo all need is trust in the project otherwise wont sucess will fail too fast ,and for sure others markets will  pay to some to do the scam attempts

[coins101]

Merchants have a love hate relationship with eBay.

Many tens of thousands of good sellers with good reputations get banned by eBay because users abuse the reporting and refund system.

If OB can get its marketing right, many of these banned sellers would become OB / BTC sellers for ordinary everyday products and services.

You can spend hours researching and reading about eBay's unfair businesses practices.

http://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/anyone-else-get-banned-from-selling-on-ebay-598802/

http://community.ebay.com/t5/eBay-Cafe/ebay-unfair-to-sellers/td-p/2946605

So, there is a big opportunity here for OB and BTC.

[knowhow]

well there is a big opportunity to bitcoin reach another level with this project soo there is a lot interest on the sucess ,its a win-win-situation ,less fees better prices ,better income,better deals,and bitcoin as payment option only,soo it will bring new custumers into it,imagine a computer cost like 1000 dollars with bitcoin costs at 900 dollars soo would bring those people who wanna save money and has a quality product for the lowest ammount.

[newb4now]

Merchants have a love hate relationship with eBay.

Many tens of thousands of good sellers with good reputations get banned by eBay because users abuse the reporting and refund system.

If OB can get its marketing right, many of these banned sellers would become OB / BTC sellers for ordinary everyday products and services.

You can spend hours researching and reading about eBay's unfair businesses practices.

http://www.cnet.com/forums/discussions/anyone-else-get-banned-from-selling-on-ebay-598802/

http://community.ebay.com/t5/eBay-Cafe/ebay-unfair-to-sellers/td-p/2946605

So, there is a big opportunity here for OB and BTC.

I left ebay years ago because fees were way too high. I see this as a bigger advantage of OB than the banning/feedback issue