OpenBazaar - decentralized eBay

[Elwar]

The OpenBazaar platform does not have fees and you will not be required to pay any fees but for the escrow service there will be a fee and most people will likely opt for the escrow service.

The developers are planning on offering an escrow service.

So there will be fees, just not as much as eBay and PayPal. And there will be competition for providing that service which will drive the price down.

I do not see any wrong in seeking for escrow. It protects buyers. As you mentioned when more people offers escrow service then we can find a cheaper escrow. Many people hate here escrow. I do not understand why. Bitcoin will grow even with escrow. No need to hate it.

Decentralized eBay, centralized escrow?

What's the point? Am I missing something, but you may as well use an exchange if you will have centralized escrows.

Its a subtle issue but one that is more complicated than you may think. A trustless escrow has its own issues with incentives, for example

1) requiring a buyer to double down and hold coins in escrow until offer goes through and seller accepts/buyer recieves means seller doesn't have to send item, can scam users (especially if he can create new addresses/names/identities to sell on a decentralized marketplace).
2) requiring seller to double down has problems with bad buyers claiming they didnt recieve when they did
3) requiring seller and buyer to double down is ok, but merchants will hate having to hold coins in hostage for process to complete... and what happens with shipping parcel is lost for real? This is where an escrow agent can help to determine best course of action, although if the seller can prove to the buyer that it was lost then the buyer can request a refund and seller can agree and all coins go back to original sources
4) an escrow agent can handle the situation but ofcourse you must trust escrow agent doesnt run off, although he has incentive to not do so to build up his reputation.

A reputation system can arise from the seller/buyer handshake's which might make #3 the best choice over #4, although there is no wrong answer. With #4 you dont have people holding coins in escrow so merchant adoption will be better, but buyer adoption will be lacking cause of complications with dealing with an escrow agent that  buyer probably pays for. #3 is free to use, no escrow fees so its the cheapest solution and is trustless so I choose #3 and what I am going to implement in Syscoin's next release on ethereum.

Escrow agents can't run off with the bitcoins. The transaction will have a multi-sig transfer. The escrow agent only determines if the money goes back to the buyer or on to the seller.

[zzaza]

It's cool that there will be another marketplace on the market. I wonder if there will be less scammers than this forum.

There will be scammers everywhere unfortunately. Even the top marketplaces like ebay and amazon cannot get rid of scammers.

Unfortunately thats true, and there is no way to prevent it...

[sidhujag]

The OpenBazaar platform does not have fees and you will not be required to pay any fees but for the escrow service there will be a fee and most people will likely opt for the escrow service.

The developers are planning on offering an escrow service.

So there will be fees, just not as much as eBay and PayPal. And there will be competition for providing that service which will drive the price down.

I do not see any wrong in seeking for escrow. It protects buyers. As you mentioned when more people offers escrow service then we can find a cheaper escrow. Many people hate here escrow. I do not understand why. Bitcoin will grow even with escrow. No need to hate it.

Decentralized eBay, centralized escrow?

What's the point? Am I missing something, but you may as well use an exchange if you will have centralized escrows.

Its a subtle issue but one that is more complicated than you may think. A trustless escrow has its own issues with incentives, for example

1) requiring a buyer to double down and hold coins in escrow until offer goes through and seller accepts/buyer recieves means seller doesn't have to send item, can scam users (especially if he can create new addresses/names/identities to sell on a decentralized marketplace).
2) requiring seller to double down has problems with bad buyers claiming they didnt recieve when they did
3) requiring seller and buyer to double down is ok, but merchants will hate having to hold coins in hostage for process to complete... and what happens with shipping parcel is lost for real? This is where an escrow agent can help to determine best course of action, although if the seller can prove to the buyer that it was lost then the buyer can request a refund and seller can agree and all coins go back to original sources
4) an escrow agent can handle the situation but ofcourse you must trust escrow agent doesnt run off, although he has incentive to not do so to build up his reputation.

A reputation system can arise from the seller/buyer handshake's which might make #3 the best choice over #4, although there is no wrong answer. With #4 you dont have people holding coins in escrow so merchant adoption will be better, but buyer adoption will be lacking cause of complications with dealing with an escrow agent that  buyer probably pays for. #3 is free to use, no escrow fees so its the cheapest solution and is trustless so I choose #3 and what I am going to implement in Syscoin's next release on ethereum.

Escrow agents can't run off with the bitcoins. The transaction will have a multi-sig transfer. The escrow agent only determines if the money goes back to the buyer or on to the seller.

Agents can collude with one of the parties to do the same thing

[avatar_kiyoshi]

It's cool that there will be another marketplace on the market. I wonder if there will be less scammers than this forum.

There will be scammers everywhere unfortunately. Even the top marketplaces like ebay and amazon cannot get rid of scammers.

Unfortunately thats true, and there is no way to prevent it...

Use a trustworthy escrow if you want to trade with a stranger.

[sidhujag]

It's cool that there will be another marketplace on the market. I wonder if there will be less scammers than this forum.

There will be scammers everywhere unfortunately. Even the top marketplaces like ebay and amazon cannot get rid of scammers.

Unfortunately thats true, and there is no way to prevent it...

Use a trustworthy escrow if you want to trade with a stranger.

but that implies trust which is what we are trying to remove.

I guess in #3 you have a rep system to combat trust, so either way designs are identical #4 and #3 however #3 is just so much easier on the technical side and does not involve third parties.

In this design you have to have a rep system for escrow and you have to have third parties.

[chek2fire]

when we will have the upcoming release?

[knight22]

when we will have the upcoming release?

Somewhere next month.

[~Bitcoin~]

Its nice to see decentralized selling and buying platform as ebay doesn't accept sellers from several countries like mine Nepal. As paypal also doesn't support my country i am unable to buy anything on ebay. Openbazaar seems very good for me but when i read the blog post, youtube have already removed openbazaar video which is quite unfair from youtube/google. They seems to fear about their ebay competitor.

[gentlemand]

Openbazaar seems very good for me but when i read the blog post, youtube have already removed openbazaar video which is quite unfair from youtube/google. They seems to fear about their ebay competitor.

I find that very hard to believe. They're not in competition in the first place and there's billions of hours of worthless filth that stays up there just fine.

[avatar_kiyoshi]

when we will have the upcoming release?

Somewhere next month.

I hope so. https://twitter.com/openbazaar/status/650879207992594432 this month is finished and next month is release time

Found cool diagram:

[christycalhoun]

I hope there will be a lot of buyers on release. I have some stuff I have been sitting on to sell.

[Amph]

I hope there will be a lot of buyers on release. I have some stuff I have been sitting on to sell.

it should not be so different than selling on the market section, if you were not able to sell there, there are high chances that there will be not so easy to find someone on openbazar

i doubt everyone who know about openbazar don't know about bitcointalk, at best it's the opposite

[JeromeL]

Building a decentralized reputation system is very tricky.

How are they going to do that ?

Any links about it ?

I read somewhere they were planning to use a proof-of-burn scheme, but it seems to me it's completely broken and insecure.

[Mickeyb]

when we will have the upcoming release?

Somewhere next month.

I hope so. https://twitter.com/openbazaar/status/650879207992594432 this month is finished and next month is release time

Found cool diagram:

Wait a minute, so next month is a release? Or have I missed something? I am waiting Openbazaar to launch as well. I think this will add a lot of value to the whole Bitcoin ecosystem.

Also this is a very cool diagram. I will be sharing it!

[christycalhoun]

I hope there will be a lot of buyers on release. I have some stuff I have been sitting on to sell.

it should not be so different than selling on the market section, if you were not able to sell there, there are high chances that there will be not so easy to find someone on openbazar

i doubt everyone who know about openbazar don't know about bitcointalk, at best it's the opposite

Yes but I have been too apathetic to make a bunch of trade threads here. I just want try something new. I could just as easily put my stuff up on ebay as well.

[knight22]

Decentralized Reputation in OpenBazaar

https://blog.openbazaar.org/decentralized-reputation-in-openbazaar/

[knowhow]

Well this project can affect the bitcoin value and will ,it will start slow and will get more and more power ,with a market like this one im pretty sure we can final achieve the 500 dollars back in the short time of the launch.Im curious what i will be able to buy with it and the prices ,that should be better then any other place its just amazing looks a shop for womans use and abuse ,a good way to bring womans into bitcoin.

[Blawpaw]

OpenBazar is a real example of why decentralised applications matter. Its the best alternative to the centralized Ebay type of online market.

[Elwar]

Decentralized Reputation in OpenBazaar

https://blog.openbazaar.org/decentralized-reputation-in-openbazaar/

I was most interested in their solution for this. I like that you can give specific ratings and leave a comment like on many e-commerce sites. They might want to throw in a "reply" type of thing if someone leaves a reputation comment that is untrue so the merchant can give his side. The detailed moderator rating is good too, it's good that it separates between winners and losers.

They appear to be relying heavily upon 3rd party for detecting people creating a lot of accounts to build their own reputation but this was one of the most difficult aspects of it and bogging down the app with solutions is probably best for now. I liked the idea of burning some bitcoins or sending to the developers for each new account but that may have discouraged people from creating one. At least they have a solution to prevent people from spam account creation.

[1986]

Decentralized Reputation in OpenBazaar

https://blog.openbazaar.org/decentralized-reputation-in-openbazaar/

I was most interested in their solution for this. I like that you can give specific ratings and leave a comment like on many e-commerce sites. They might want to throw in a "reply" type of thing if someone leaves a reputation comment that is untrue so the merchant can give his side. The detailed moderator rating is good too, it's good that it separates between winners and losers.

Yes, a follow up comment is always helpful. Many negatives can be false or untrue or based on minor disagreements that the buyer left in frustration. I think the feedback system here should have a similar option so others can voice their side of the situation.