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TheFuneral
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July 17, 2013, 05:27:32 PM |
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I don't get why people don't understand why the price is not set only by the ROI or by the share_price/dividends. I think the bitcoin world need trust and well managed companies. That's why the price is high and if it is too high, the market will do his work.
I wish I had bought the shares a few weeks ago when I was asking myself if I should or not -.-
Patrick
That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world. Is it the news and publicity that is causing people to blindly purchase? |
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The Bitcoin network protocol was designed to be extremely flexible. It can be used to create timed transactions, escrow transactions, multi-signature transactions, etc. The current features of the client only hint at what will be possible in the future.
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Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
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AngelSky
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July 17, 2013, 05:48:51 PM |
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That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world.
I think you're right to ask. As far as I can understand the mining-business, it is a race to get the hardware before the others. If you manage to get your hardware in the real world (not a pre-order undelivered for month - years), you will be successfull. People are betting on the future of these companies that are able to stay ahead. So yes, I think that the price/share reflects the trust that the shareholders can have in the ability of these companies to get these machines (now or later) and get the future gains expected. Is it the news and publicity that is causing people to blindly purchase?
I'm pretty sure that there is out there some people that blindly purchase. And yes there is some "news" and "announcement" effect Hope it helps! Patrick |
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teaserX
Newbie
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Activity: 44
Merit: 0
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July 17, 2013, 08:40:02 PM |
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That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world.
How is this logically not profitable? Money spent on shares (hopefully) does not eveaporate. You receive dividends and still own the shares which might appreciate. I remains to be seen what the dividends will be but they will certainly be a higher multiple than the share price suggests. Somehow I think there is a wrong headed notion that the dividends should pay for the shares in a timely fashion like the return on mining hardware. We're not discussing mining profitability here. |
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TheFuneral
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July 17, 2013, 09:57:14 PM |
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That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world.
How is this logically not profitable? Money spent on shares (hopefully) does not eveaporate. You receive dividends and still own the shares which might appreciate. I remains to be seen what the dividends will be but they will certainly be a higher multiple than the share price suggests. Somehow I think there is a wrong headed notion that the dividends should pay for the shares in a timely fashion like the return on mining hardware. We're not discussing mining profitability here. I'm not saying you're wrong for claiming they may appreciate because that I can't predict. I can tell you that even if he had ALL, that's right EVERYTHING he claims hell have by past Septmeber today it wouldn't be enough. "Our hashrate after all of the above and we spend our remaining treasury shares + growth funds: 1.1+ th/s (1100 gh/s)" Put this into our calc we get 1100000/10420 that leaves us with 105Mh/s a share. With a price of 1BTC we put this into our calc; http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. with 105MH/s and a cost of 95 and a 6 month time frame you will breakeven in 2 years. In three months you'll be down 63USD. Remember you're losing with gear he doesn't even have yet so to figure it out with his current structure you're a bigger loser. This leaves me to speculate that you guys are missing something rather obvious or you're making a big gamble that he'll get all this "gear" tomorrow and even if he did you're still losing. This is why I'm asking investors why they are currently buying right now in case there is something I have blatantly missed. If you got in from the start that's another story and one I don't care to discuss. I'm talking about the current assest as it stands today. |
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redbeans2012
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July 17, 2013, 10:26:03 PM |
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That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world.
How is this logically not profitable? Money spent on shares (hopefully) does not eveaporate. You receive dividends and still own the shares which might appreciate. I remains to be seen what the dividends will be but they will certainly be a higher multiple than the share price suggests. Somehow I think there is a wrong headed notion that the dividends should pay for the shares in a timely fashion like the return on mining hardware. We're not discussing mining profitability here. I'm not saying you're wrong for claiming they may appreciate because that I can't predict. I can tell you that even if he had ALL, that's right EVERYTHING he claims hell have by past Septmeber today it wouldn't be enough. "Our hashrate after all of the above and we spend our remaining treasury shares + growth funds: 1.1+ th/s (1100 gh/s)" Put this into our calc we get 1100000/10420 that leaves us with 105Mh/s a share. With a price of 1BTC we put this into our calc; http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. with 105MH/s and a cost of 95 and a 6 month time frame you will breakeven in 2 years. In three months you'll be down 63USD. Remember you're losing with gear he doesn't even have yet so to figure it out with his current structure you're a bigger loser. This leaves me to speculate that you guys are missing something rather obvious or you're making a big gamble that he'll get all this "gear" tomorrow and even if he did you're still losing. This is why I'm asking investors why they are currently buying right now in case there is something I have blatantly missed. If you got in from the start that's another story and one I don't care to discuss. I'm talking about the current assest as it stands today. 2 years break even from dividends of lord sounds horrible. |
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damiano
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.
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July 18, 2013, 12:47:57 AM |
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That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world.
How is this logically not profitable? Money spent on shares (hopefully) does not eveaporate. You receive dividends and still own the shares which might appreciate. I remains to be seen what the dividends will be but they will certainly be a higher multiple than the share price suggests. Somehow I think there is a wrong headed notion that the dividends should pay for the shares in a timely fashion like the return on mining hardware. We're not discussing mining profitability here. I'm not saying you're wrong for claiming they may appreciate because that I can't predict. I can tell you that even if he had ALL, that's right EVERYTHING he claims hell have by past Septmeber today it wouldn't be enough. "Our hashrate after all of the above and we spend our remaining treasury shares + growth funds: 1.1+ th/s (1100 gh/s)" Put this into our calc we get 1100000/10420 that leaves us with 105Mh/s a share. With a price of 1BTC we put this into our calc; http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. with 105MH/s and a cost of 95 and a 6 month time frame you will breakeven in 2 years. In three months you'll be down 63USD. Remember you're losing with gear he doesn't even have yet so to figure it out with his current structure you're a bigger loser. This leaves me to speculate that you guys are missing something rather obvious or you're making a big gamble that he'll get all this "gear" tomorrow and even if he did you're still losing. This is why I'm asking investors why they are currently buying right now in case there is something I have blatantly missed. If you got in from the start that's another story and one I don't care to discuss. I'm talking about the current assest as it stands today. Go research any stock out on the nyse or nasdaq paying dividends and calculate how long it it will take you to break even, you wont find anything under 2 years |
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redbeans2012
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July 18, 2013, 01:28:41 AM |
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That's essentially what I'm asking. Logically this price is not profitable from an ROI standpoint. I'm asking what else is there that I'm missing that warrants this to be priced over that? Future gains? Those still don't make this profitable if we assume every time runs as planned in the ASIC world.
How is this logically not profitable? Money spent on shares (hopefully) does not eveaporate. You receive dividends and still own the shares which might appreciate. I remains to be seen what the dividends will be but they will certainly be a higher multiple than the share price suggests. Somehow I think there is a wrong headed notion that the dividends should pay for the shares in a timely fashion like the return on mining hardware. We're not discussing mining profitability here. I'm not saying you're wrong for claiming they may appreciate because that I can't predict. I can tell you that even if he had ALL, that's right EVERYTHING he claims hell have by past Septmeber today it wouldn't be enough. "Our hashrate after all of the above and we spend our remaining treasury shares + growth funds: 1.1+ th/s (1100 gh/s)" Put this into our calc we get 1100000/10420 that leaves us with 105Mh/s a share. With a price of 1BTC we put this into our calc; http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/. with 105MH/s and a cost of 95 and a 6 month time frame you will breakeven in 2 years. In three months you'll be down 63USD. Remember you're losing with gear he doesn't even have yet so to figure it out with his current structure you're a bigger loser. This leaves me to speculate that you guys are missing something rather obvious or you're making a big gamble that he'll get all this "gear" tomorrow and even if he did you're still losing. This is why I'm asking investors why they are currently buying right now in case there is something I have blatantly missed. If you got in from the start that's another story and one I don't care to discuss. I'm talking about the current assest as it stands today. Go research any stock out on the nyse or nasdaq paying dividends and calculate how long it it will take you to break even, you wont find anything under 2 years Looks like APPL would take around 20 to 30 years. or something lol |
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medicine
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July 18, 2013, 01:57:04 AM |
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I never bought with the intentions of breaking even from dividends. I just don't want my bitcoins sitting in a wallet doing nothing. Spreading them out over the most trusted securities (like Cognitive) on the most reliable exchanges (like BTC-TC) seems like a good idea to me.
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mfalme
Newbie
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Activity: 40
Merit: 0
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July 18, 2013, 06:44:05 AM
Last edit: July 18, 2013, 08:29:25 AM by mfalme |
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I certainly cant complain about anything. Can't wait to see whats next.
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str4wm4n
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1611
Merit: 1001
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July 18, 2013, 07:41:50 AM |
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people taking some profits huh? looks like low volume though
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stslimited
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July 18, 2013, 01:15:57 PM |
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why do mining company investors think they are here to break even from dividends Warren Buffett didn't write that book!  |
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Vbs
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July 18, 2013, 01:23:38 PM |
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Classic pump and dump.
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stslimited
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July 18, 2013, 03:26:47 PM |
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Classic pump and dump.
pump and dumps fail at high volume all cryptocurrency securities are very illiquid, so if someone needs to liquidate shares now it will disrupt the order books. |
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drewmsmith
Newbie
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Activity: 19
Merit: 0
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July 18, 2013, 04:24:30 PM |
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Oh hey, New logo! nice.
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moribana
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July 18, 2013, 10:08:07 PM |
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It was interesting to follow the discussion about this. It is true that the share price seems rather high considering the hash power it represents right now. Compared to some perpetual mining bonds, it is true. However, companies like Cognitive intend to stay ahead of the pack in the long run. If they can do that and at the same time the dollar price of bitcoin goes up, the this a is really good long-term investment.
Ultimately the whole success of the bitcoin economy depends on whether bitcoin becomes widely accepted and as a result whether there is a steady flow of dollars into bitcoins. If, as we all hope, this happens, those who can keep up the pace will win big time.
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stabs
Member
Offline
Activity: 109
Merit: 10
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July 19, 2013, 12:04:03 AM |
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Are the two other Avalons hashing now:
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redbeans2012
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July 19, 2013, 12:19:25 AM |
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It was interesting to follow the discussion about this. It is true that the share price seems rather high considering the hash power it represents right now. Compared to some perpetual mining bonds, it is true. However, companies like Cognitive intend to stay ahead of the pack in the long run. If they can do that and at the same time the dollar price of bitcoin goes up, the this a is really good long-term investment.
Ultimately the whole success of the bitcoin economy depends on whether bitcoin becomes widely accepted and as a result whether there is a steady flow of dollars into bitcoins. If, as we all hope, this happens, those who can keep up the pace will win big time.
Isn't the share price of Basic Mining even more outrageous considering the amount of shares out there? Or am I missing something? |
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moribana
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July 19, 2013, 12:40:19 AM |
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It was interesting to follow the discussion about this. It is true that the share price seems rather high considering the hash power it represents right now. Compared to some perpetual mining bonds, it is true. However, companies like Cognitive intend to stay ahead of the pack in the long run. If they can do that and at the same time the dollar price of bitcoin goes up, the this a is really good long-term investment.
Ultimately the whole success of the bitcoin economy depends on whether bitcoin becomes widely accepted and as a result whether there is a steady flow of dollars into bitcoins. If, as we all hope, this happens, those who can keep up the pace will win big time.
Isn't the share price of Basic Mining even more outrageous considering the amount of shares out there? Or am I missing something? I think, you are right. Their hash power per share is 3-4 times less than that of Cognitive. At the same time the share price is similar. |
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stslimited
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July 19, 2013, 02:01:59 AM |
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did the avalons arrive? Motion said they would be overnighted and hashing by thursday afternoon
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miTgiB
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 251
Merit: 100
Du hast
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July 19, 2013, 02:04:29 AM |
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It was interesting to follow the discussion about this. It is true that the share price seems rather high considering the hash power it represents right now. Compared to some perpetual mining bonds, it is true. However, companies like Cognitive intend to stay ahead of the pack in the long run. If they can do that and at the same time the dollar price of bitcoin goes up, the this a is really good long-term investment.
Ultimately the whole success of the bitcoin economy depends on whether bitcoin becomes widely accepted and as a result whether there is a steady flow of dollars into bitcoins. If, as we all hope, this happens, those who can keep up the pace will win big time.
Isn't the share price of Basic Mining even more outrageous considering the amount of shares out there? Or am I missing something? I think, you are right. Their hash power per share is 3-4 times less than that of Cognitive. At the same time the share price is similar. Is it? BM is currently 445G/h with another 500 in transit, I'm not sure where Cog is currently, is it 83 and 160ish after the 2nd avalon arrives this weekend? BM has 5x more shares outstanding so unless I am way off on Cog's current hashrate..... |
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