Here is the answers I got to why coinsource verification actually means anything, nothing they said makes me think that it adds any trust to these devs, they even admit themselves that it could still be a scamcoin:
[21:20] <Boomsling_Home> Hi Devil
[21:20] <Boomsling_Home> thankyou for at least showing up
[21:20] <DeViL303> hi boomsling.
[21:21] <Boomsling_Home> Im sure Tk will respond
[21:21] <DeViL303> i just dont understand this verification, seems way to easy to fake, mayeb ther eis another step that ive missed
[21:21] <Boomsling_Home> I dont have answers, but you should get what you want here
[21:22] <TkHamed> Gello, apologies
[21:22] <TkHamed> Discussing some matters with my team.
[21:22] <Boomsling_Home> hello tk
[21:22] <DeViL303> ok , cool, its just when you quote this verification system like it actually means something, and you dont seem to understand it yourself?
[21:22] <Boomsling_Home> understood, but a response to DEvils Q's would be good when you have time
[21:22] <TkHamed> Yes totally understand your question regarding the Trust Verification DeViL.
[21:23] <DeViL303> ok cool. thanks
[21:23] <TkHamed> The Trust Index is merely holding the developer accountable (the founder) for his or her own coin. We then confirm his indenity through several steps, to ultimately give him or her a Trust Index Scor.
[21:24] <TkHamed> This Trust Index Score is merely saying, we have confirmed the indenity of X person, and in return we back this developer and his idenity behind his Coin.
[21:24] <Boomsling_Home> how do you ensure that the system isnt spoofed
[21:24] <TkHamed> Now look, the Trust Index is very new we totally read everyone's opinions and thoughts on this and we are honestly working very hard to put together a better system.
[21:24] <DeViL303> how do you know that the person you verified is even a dev?
[21:25] <DeViL303> i can get my mum to go through your verification process? and then i am a trusted dev?
[21:25] <TkHamed> That's one of the major concerns at the moment. We just can't know who we are exactly verifying. THe intent is if a developer wants to get Trust Verified, he has the intent of becomming an honest person.
[21:25] == SushiChef_ [d9791b3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.121.27.60] has joined #coinssource
[21:25] <TkHamed> We are soon going to reveal that indenity checks are just a part of the process of becomming or having a high Index score.
[21:25] <TkHamed> But often
[21:26] <TkHamed> We require a whole coin team to be verified.
[21:26] <TkHamed> More then 1 indvidiual, such in the case with URO
[21:26] <TkHamed> We all know Bohan and his idenity, but that wasn't enough for us to give him a Trust Index score.
[21:26] <TkHamed> We are requiring a much more in-depth verification before we can go ahead and say "Look Uro is Trust Verified"
[21:27] == edraket31 [~edraket31@178-84-200-178.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #coinssource
[21:27] <TkHamed> There are MAJOR risks for us when verify a developer, the system is not 100% fulproof and remains in its infancy.
[21:27] <DeViL303> "he has the intent of becomming an honest person." No, i dont agree, if a person wants your trust verification, i think they probably want to "prove" they are trustworthy to someone else, whether they are honest or not really means nothing.
[21:27] <TkHamed> ANd you are totally right DeViL.
[21:27] <TkHamed> We are requiring some developers to verify their entire team.
[21:28] <TkHamed> From the developer and core figures.
[21:28] <TkHamed> You will soon come to the realization that you either neglect the system entirely
[21:28] <TkHamed> Or you are doing a very intricate scam to fool everyone.
[21:28] <squiggie> DeViL303 - Do you have some suggestions?
[21:29] <TkHamed> Squiggie is part of the Coins Source Team btw.
[21:29] <Boomsling_Home> do you accept PO boxes?
[21:29] <DeViL303> But with millions of dollars involved, the intricate scam seems to be big possibility. as for suggestions, no, i can see no way that this verification can ever even prove that the person is a dev. let alone an honest dev..
[21:29] <TkHamed> No we do not. We verify idenity by sending the verification to the address on the Identification card.
[21:30] <TkHamed> This is a big issue DeViL. We are looking ways to improve our system.
[21:30] <Boomsling_Home> do you with all available resources check the authenticity of IDs, eg driving licence
[21:30] == junglelove445 [454a3f9a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.69.74.63.154] has joined #coinssource
[21:30] <TkHamed> For example, we are going to introduce scores for how long a coin is available
[21:30] <TkHamed> Yes, we go through a heft process in checking if the IDS are legit.
[21:31] <TkHamed> 2 simple checks is address verification
[21:31] <TkHamed> and calling the phone number if it matches with the area on the ID
[21:31] <junglelove445> How does an ID prove that a developer of a coin is not out to pump and dump a coin Hamed?
[21:31] <junglelove445> Do you show his identity if the coin fails and dumps?
[21:31] <DeViL303> well i cant think of anything that you can do to prove honesty in a dev. owning an email should not give 1 trust point, as that means nothing, owning aphone should not mean anything wither, owning a twitter account should not mean anything either, i can get 3 trust points just by owning a phone and email and twitter? bit too easy i think
[21:31] <TkHamed> We are not responsible for the actions of people.
[21:32] <TkHamed> Look anyone can do anything at anytime.
[21:32] <TkHamed> There is no system in check to keep people from robbing a bank, or comitting a crime
[21:32] <junglelove445> If your not responcible of the actions of people how can you then back them on an investment opportunity?
[21:32] <Boomsling_Home> given that social media verification is pretty much a acedemic process for when verify the ID of someone I would assume that the core of the verification process relies on the driving licence or ID and the card you send with a code. I also assume that you would only send the card to the address on the ID?
[21:32] <Boomsling_Home> is this corrcet?
[21:32] <TkHamed> In the current state of alternative coins
[21:32] <TkHamed> Yes this is correct
[21:32] <Boomsling_Home> ty
[21:32] <TkHamed> A developer issues a coin
[21:33] <TkHamed> You have no idea who he is
[21:33] <DeViL303> so with a fake ID i can get 100% verified is whay you are saying?
[21:33] <TkHamed> and disappears after X time
[21:33] <junglelove445> Do you check there previous involvements in other projects?
[21:33] <Boomsling_Home> no devil thats not what he is saying
[21:33] <TkHamed> We are about to issue a trust verification update
[21:33] == Boomsling_Home [522e2b94@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.46.43.148]
[21:33] == realname : 82.46.43.148 -
http://webchat.freenode.net[21:33] == channels : #coinssource
[21:33] == server : herbert.freenode.net [DE]
[21:33] == idle : 0 days 0 hours 0 minutes 18 seconds [connected: Thu Aug 07 21:11:05 2014]
[21:33] == account : Boomsling
[21:33] == End of WHOIS
[21:33] <TkHamed> Which will incorperate how long a coin has veen on the markets
[21:33] <TkHamed> 1...2...4..6 months
[21:33] <Boomsling_Home> in all resonable power and resources they check the ID and recive a code.
[21:33] <TkHamed> and give him a score accordingly.
[21:34] <Boomsling_Home> its not infallable, nothing is
[21:34] <TkHamed> We are also looking to get the community involved.
[21:34] == deemington [~Deemingto@91.84.84.165] has joined #coinssource
[21:34] <junglelove445> But why now update your trust? Is this all because of whats going on?
[21:34] <Boomsling_Home> but its a pretty unlikely to be such a elaborate long con
[21:34] <TkHamed> The Trust Index isn't 100% ullproof. We love everyones input on how to make it better.
[21:34] <TkHamed> We have a Trust Index 2.0, which will modify several of the critera needed to get a 7/7
[21:34] <Boomsling_Home> what is the heft process
[21:34] <DeViL303> @boomsling: but i can get fake irish driving license for 1000euro, so what is gonna stop me using that to get verified? so in essence, with a fake ID, i can get 100% verified?
[21:35] <TkHamed> No
[21:35] <TkHamed> Not 100%
[21:35] <TkHamed> Not 1 dev is 7/7 verified
[21:35] <squiggie> it's also important to note, without giving away too many details, that we're working on a code review precess to incorporate into the index. so we'll have a way to tie a developer to a coin, and a coin to solid code.
[21:35] <DeViL303> ok, i see
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[21:35] <junglelove445> What you really need to do is allow people to see who is behind the coin. That is the only way. Why hide the identity of the dev when he is trying to build something new?
[21:36] <junglelove445> What does someone have to hide
[21:36] <TkHamed> No the update for the Trust Index was planned 1-2 weeks ago. We recognize the ability to cheat the system, and we are doing something about it.
[21:36] <junglelove445> if they are building something great
[21:36] <TkHamed> Exactly Jungle.
[21:36] <junglelove445> The only way and ONLY way to know who is who in the altcoin market is research on the threads and IRC. Being trusted will not work if you dont show who is behind the coin
[21:36] <TkHamed> This problem is only an occurance with crypto currencies.
[21:37] <junglelove445> Yes so your verification should show who is behind the coin
[21:37] <TkHamed> We can't reveal personal details
[21:37] <Boomsling_Home> jungle, why do you use a alis and not your real name online?
[21:37] <TkHamed> No that is not in our power to do so.
[21:37] <junglelove445> i dont want to know there address and where they eat
[21:37] <squiggie> people believe that verifying a developer is verifying against a scam, which isn't true. verifying a developer is just that, we're verifying that a dev is creating a particular coin. the code review aspect will verify a coin's code is solid. hopefully with this index, people will have a beter guage for investing in a coin/project.
[21:37] <TkHamed> There is a lot of people and threats that occur
[21:37] <DeViL303> @boomsling, now, will you admit that really this verification proves nothing, or do you still believe it works?
[21:37] <junglelove445> i want to know who is working on the coin
[21:37] <junglelove445> so verification does not work
[21:37] <junglelove445> it means nothing
[21:37] <TkHamed> The verification works, its not 100%
[21:37] <junglelove445> when you dont know who the dev is
[21:38] <TkHamed> This is the first step
[21:38] <junglelove445> when you invest on the NASDAQ you have to know every detail about the person and company not just an email and ID
[21:38] <TkHamed> When noone else has taken action
[21:38] <TkHamed> We are improving our system and have plans to incorperate new qualifications.
[21:38] <squiggie> junglelove445 - then invest in only nasdaq and get out of crypto. this isn't nasdaq
[21:38] <DeViL303> @squiggie: how do you know the person you verify is even a dev? they could just be a normal person with no coding skills?
[21:38] <TkHamed> Which we believe everyone would be please with.
[21:39] <junglelove445> exactly
[21:39] <junglelove445> thats why i am here
[21:39] <junglelove445> i do my own research
[21:39] <junglelove445> and i learn a lot that way its more fun
[21:39] <Boomsling_Home> me too
[21:39] <TkHamed> We welcome everyones input
[21:39] <junglelove445> i just want to learn about coin sourse im not here for key or cloak or whatever
[21:39] <TkHamed> On how to make the system better. The Trust Index is open for everyones input.
[21:39] <TkHamed> Oh that's fine, what would you like to know about us?
[21:39] <Boomsling_Home> you talk to the devs?
[21:39] <junglelove445> coinsourse can be a perfect fit for altcoins
[21:39] <junglelove445> just need to see what they offer
[21:40] <TkHamed> That was the intent.
[21:40] <junglelove445> thanks ahmed
[21:40] <TkHamed> Since the very begining
[21:40] <Boomsling_Home> do you ask techincal questions that would require a basis in coding to be able to answer
[21:40] <TkHamed> We want to help.
[21:40] <squiggie> DeViL303 - do they necessarily need to be a developer. sometimes we're verifying team members as a whole, not just coders.
[21:40] <TkHamed> As in the case with Uro^
[21:40] <DeViL303> ok, so all you are verifiying is that a person possibly exists
[21:40] <TkHamed> Bohan Confirmed, but we did not issue Trust Index for Uro
[21:41] <TkHamed> We are requiring more verifications, which he's providing.
[21:41] <TkHamed> Still ongoing, for more then 1 week now.
[21:41] <TkHamed> Coins Source was a BitCointalk funded Company.
[21:41] <TkHamed> Here is our original ANN if anyone is interested.
[21:41] == Lamosty [~lamosty@adsl-dyn123.91-127-100.t-com.sk] has joined #coinssource
[21:41] <Boomsling_Home> can you answer my question please TK
[21:42] <TkHamed> Squiggie answered it
[21:42] <TkHamed> He's the CIO of Coins Source.
[21:42] <squiggie> DeViL303 - we're verifying and gathering information aobut the person/people behind the projects. whether they falisfy that inforamtion we cannot be sure of. coupled with other aspects soon to be released on the index, our goal is to provide a measure of 'trust' about a coin/project so people can make better decisions about investing.
[21:42] == dudewheresmycoin [18def9d5@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.24.222.249.213] has joined #coinssource
[21:42] <DeViL303> @TkHamed: so you would admit that really your verification doesnt protect against a scam, all it does is prove that the person on the ID exists. it doesnt prove they are involved in the coin?
[21:42] <edraket31> junglelove: you want to know everythingm about dev, you say. How much do you know about dev of bitcoin?
[21:42] <junglelove445> Nothing I know all about the code they released
[21:43] <junglelove445> you can read the whitepaper and see clearly
[21:43] <TkHamed> We can't protect against a scam, its impossible. If a developer is going to scam he will scam
[21:43] <junglelove445> true
[21:43] <TkHamed> In a case when a dev scams
[21:43] <TkHamed> Its up the community to contact government officials/local police
[21:43] <TkHamed> So we can release the information for further actions.
[21:43] <DeViL303> i see. and you cant prove the person is even involved in the coin either? he could be a cousin of a member of the team that you verify?
[21:44] <TkHamed> It's a security issue, we just can't release developers information.
[21:44] <TkHamed> There is a reputation to uphold for us.
[21:44] <TkHamed> Developers have to Trust us too.
[21:44] <TkHamed> For them to do the Trust Verification. Obviously, community efforts play a HUGE part in this.
[21:45] <TkHamed> To demand more, but several people have tried to solve the issue with devs
[21:45] <DeViL303> but basically nothing in this system would stop me from paying some idiot to pretend he is a dev on a coin i am releasing ?
[21:45] <TkHamed> But noone has succeeded.
[21:45] <junglelove445> Ahmed I think you have a great site going for you. But you need to be more careful when approving coins like Key look at the backlash your company is getting from this. Twitter IRC and BCT is talking about this. Really bad press for your site... I hope in the future you will not support Pump and Dumpers like Key devs. The whole crew involved with t
[21:45] <junglelove445> hat coin were involved with other failures and if your team didnt see it then you guys will not succeed. Take Care!
[21:45] <junglelove445> Bye guys!
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[21:46] <TkHamed> We can't do anything about pump and dumpers.
[21:46] <TkHamed> That's not the intent for Trust Index. The intent is to verify developers from blantly taking peoples money
[21:46] <TkHamed> and walking away.
[21:46] <squiggie> lol, someone wants us to verify against pumpers
[21:46] <DeViL303> good point, we know that this group involved in key is the same one from crytpcoin, will you be bringing cryptcoin into the verificationj system for them, and checking that out too? or do you take each project completely seperately?
[21:47] <Boomsling_Home> I dont know how you can be appeased Devil, anything can be faked with enough determination and resources
[21:47] <TkHamed> ^ Exactly.
[21:47] <TkHamed> Anything could. Passports
[21:47] <Boomsling_Home> its just wether its practical or likely they would go to such length
[21:47] <TkHamed> Country access
[21:47] <TkHamed> Even on government levels, spies and such.
[21:47] <TkHamed> Anything can be faked in this world
[21:47] <Lamosty> DeViL303 - of course we try to connect the dev with the coin, for example by verifying email address which he uses to make commits into github repo
[21:47] <TkHamed> If there is enough resources.
[21:48] <Boomsling_Home> same reason they dont call bullet proff glass, bullet proof
[21:48] <TkHamed> Trust Index is here to promote a higher transparency
[21:48] <Boomsling_Home> nothing is 100%
[21:48] <TkHamed> Its up to the communities to demand more from developers.
[21:48] <Boomsling_Home> I get it TK
[21:48] <TkHamed> There will always be scams, @DeViL.
[21:48] <Boomsling_Home> it beyond what I think someone would strech to do
[21:48] <Boomsling_Home> to elaborate
[21:49] <DeViL303> "anything" "go to such length" , we are talkign about email and twitter accounts here, and a letter, with photos of ID? faking that isnt rocket science? people fake stuff like this for a welfare claim, so its not that hard man, you make it sound like it would be impossible to fake.
21:50] <TkHamed> We never said it was impossible to fake, for the very reasons you mentioned DeViL
[21:50] <Boomsling_Home> its gesture, a good one in the right direction for crypto. You are relying on the diligence of coinsource. So many what ifs or you could loop holes or whatevver its gonna be immposibble to appease you're concerns
[21:50] <Lamosty> DeViL303 - when dev make commits to github for example, there is an email address appended to commit message. We then verify if he is the owner of that email address. It is not bullet proof but it helps
[21:50] <Boomsling_Home> It obnvious Im a investor in KEy
[21:51] <Boomsling_Home> but coinsource is used by many coins
[21:51] <TkHamed> We've done 100s of reviews
[21:51] <Boomsling_Home> I invest in many markets
[21:51] <TkHamed> We know every type of coin, and recognize immediately if a coin is going to ail.
[21:51] <TkHamed> We are very entrenched in crypto-currencies.
[21:52] <TkHamed> fail* or succeed* it's almost second nature to me and several Coins Source members.
