GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[forzendiablo]

i think GAW may end as ponzi but we will see

[1715594794]

1715594794

[1715594794]

1715594794

[1715594794]

1715594794

[eightcylinders]

There was a thread from Dr. Paul that listed other things related to how ZenPool works on HT.   However renting out a large chuck of hash power clearly could make up the difference seen in payouts.   Even when the ZenPool was up over .0006 BTC/MHS there was a lot of variation.   Your concern seems to be you can't track it.   The problem is that is something you'll never be able to track.   

If your hold up is you don't know GAW's business strategy, that is something you can't hope to get resolved. 

At this point it is pretty clear that ZenPool is real, albeit complex.   The relationship between how much hashing has been sold vs how much actually exists isn't clear, but logically they can't have less hashing power than sold for very long periods of time if the business is valid.   No way to easily address that issue.   However it appears that GAW is really in this for the long run so that is a big plus.   A lot of cloud hashing sites are very fuzzy compared to the GAW stuff.

Sorry, but I call BS on this.  Zenpool (and prime hashlets too) is at BEST an investment scheme where you give GAW your BTC and you TRUST GAW to give you back profits.  If they are 100% ethical and honest, they will treat invested capital with the same care and fiduciary duty that an investment manger in a hedge fund would.  It is illegal as hell and for good reason.

[verloren]

LTCgear has unknown owners, never reply to mails etc - their offer is too good to be true

If it's a support issue, Chris responds.

[eightcylinders]

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[bitcoinnoisseur]

i think GAW may end as ponzi but we will see

Looks like you missed it the last time so I'll quote it for you:

i feel this is a ponzi

And the cloud mining from your signature is not?

Looks like you missed it the first time so why don't you answer now:

Quote from: Stargazer on October 20, 2014, 08:10:56 PM
Quote from: alienesb on October 20, 2014, 06:25:01 PM
Quote from: Stargazer on October 20, 2014, 06:19:11 PM
The way I see it, you're trying to promote yourself and your domain by using a known and popular brand (GAW). If their name was registered, I don't think you can use it without their permission, which in this case you clearly don't have, and admitted that they contacted you and asked not to use it.

I don't agree with alienesb. It's not a free world and you can't do whatever you like, just look at coinye coin. Or in other words you can do whatever you like, but there are consequences.

Well you're wrong because coinye was a different case and usage all together. You can disagree all you want but case law exists that says he can have a site naming gaw with users opinions on it because it's free speech.  If he is not profiting off of the companies name it's fine.

You just don't like it.
Don't bring me into this, I have no personal feelings in the subject.

It may be seen like he's attempting to profit from it, because domain's popularity determines its price. By using a registered name of another company he's hoping to popularize his own domain.
I wonder how he's going to prove in court that he wasn't going to use the registered name of an existing company to mislead people into thinking that it's another GAW project.




You brought yourself into this. You actually believe GAW has previously registered the domain name gawgate? You actually believe there's a profit to to ever be made with a site called Gawgate? It's called gawGATE. Do you have even the slightest clue what anything with GATE attached to it suggests? You actually believe that not only would people think it's a GAW project but after reading a single sentence on the site would also believe that it IS a GAW project? Please explain how you think he's going to profit it any way as this seems to be such a great argument for you.

[eightcylinders]

Yes, "trust me" GAW sux, I'm an LTC gear affiliate, use the link in my signature.

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a form of criticism directed at something about the person one is criticizing, rather than something (potentially, at least) independent of that person.  When used inappropriately, it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized.

  Wikipedia definition here

For example, it is an ad hominem fallacy to argue that one should ignore the very relevant concerns about GAW that I have expressed, on the basis of a link to a completely different company in my signature.

Of course rational thought is not big in the GAW camp these days so maybe logical fallacies don't bother you.

[dyask]

There was a thread from Dr. Paul that listed other things related to how ZenPool works on HT.   However renting out a large chuck of hash power clearly could make up the difference seen in payouts.   Even when the ZenPool was up over .0006 BTC/MHS there was a lot of variation.   Your concern seems to be you can't track it.   The problem is that is something you'll never be able to track.   

If your hold up is you don't know GAW's business strategy, that is something you can't hope to get resolved. 

At this point it is pretty clear that ZenPool is real, albeit complex.   The relationship between how much hashing has been sold vs how much actually exists isn't clear, but logically they can't have less hashing power than sold for very long periods of time if the business is valid.   No way to easily address that issue.   However it appears that GAW is really in this for the long run so that is a big plus.   A lot of cloud hashing sites are very fuzzy compared to the GAW stuff.

Sorry, but I call BS on this.  Zenpool (and prime hashlets too) is at BEST an investment scheme where you give GAW your BTC and you TRUST GAW to give you back profits.  If they are 100% ethical and honest, they will treat invested capital with the same care and fiduciary duty that an investment manger in a hedge fund would.  It is illegal as hell and for good reason.

Well I call BS on your comments too.   At first ZenPool was hard to believe, but just too much has happened and too many people and companies are involved now.  If it was a scam, it would have already fell apart.   

[eightcylinders]

There was a thread from Dr. Paul that listed other things related to how ZenPool works on HT.   However renting out a large chuck of hash power clearly could make up the difference seen in payouts.   Even when the ZenPool was up over .0006 BTC/MHS there was a lot of variation.   Your concern seems to be you can't track it.   The problem is that is something you'll never be able to track.   

If your hold up is you don't know GAW's business strategy, that is something you can't hope to get resolved. 

At this point it is pretty clear that ZenPool is real, albeit complex.   The relationship between how much hashing has been sold vs how much actually exists isn't clear, but logically they can't have less hashing power than sold for very long periods of time if the business is valid.   No way to easily address that issue.   However it appears that GAW is really in this for the long run so that is a big plus.   A lot of cloud hashing sites are very fuzzy compared to the GAW stuff.

Sorry, but I call BS on this.  Zenpool (and prime hashlets too) is at BEST an investment scheme where you give GAW your BTC and you TRUST GAW to give you back profits.  If they are 100% ethical and honest, they will treat invested capital with the same care and fiduciary duty that an investment manger in a hedge fund would.  It is illegal as hell and for good reason.

Well I call BS on your comments too.   At first ZenPool was hard to believe, but just too much has happened and too many people and companies are involved now.  If it was a scam, it would have already fell apart.   

Re-read my comments.  I did not say GAW was a scam. I said it was an illegal investment scheme.  There is a difference. 

My point is that all you are doing is handing GAW BTC in the hope that GAW will invest it wisely and give you honest and fair returns.  There is no other way to understand Primes or Zenpool based on what Josh has said.

-> What are the limits of Josh's investment discretion on Zenpool?  Can he lend out hardware (yes, he said as much).  Can he lend out BTC (say on BTCJam)?  Can he use Zenpool to play Satoshi Dice?  Can he invest in the stock market with Zenpool?  Can he accumulate funds in zenpool to be used to place pre-orders with ASIC companies?  Can he use Zenpool to buy a jet to fly to vegas in the hope of getting more investors to put more money into zenpool to boost its purchasing power?  The truth is, GAW can do ANYTHING with that money. 

-> It is not even clear what funds and/or miners consitute the Zenpool pool (how much of each $ purchased goes into the "zenpool"?  Is Zenpool kept separate from Prime pool?  LTCpool?  )  Does each zenpool miner purchased mean that another physical miner is added to zenpool with hash power at least equal to the hash power purchased?  If not, where does the rest of money go?  etc. etc.

What I actually said was that Zenpool at least (and possibly the other hashlets) is "illegal as hell".  I stand by that assertion as Zenpool is nothing other than an investment pool but without the disclosures and duties that come along with a legal investment pool.  Take a look at any mutual fund, hedge fund, or other investment pool.  You will find a detailed prospectus along with detailed risk disclosures.  Where is that here?  it isn't because its illegally run.

That may mean its a scam (as I have said before, it lights up ALL of the red flags for a ponzi).  BUT it may also be the case that Josh is a good guy with the best intentions.  I speculated elsewhere just now that maybe Josh is using the money from hashlet sales to buy up the Bitmaintech L1's that were suddenly sold out.  If he bought enough of those to equal or exceed the hash power of the hashlets sold, then its NOT a ponzi and NOT a scam.  It IS, in any case, illegal without the disclosure required of an investment pool.

[suchmoon]

This sums up the last few pages of this thread quite nicely, wouldn't you agree  


Edited 2020-11-27 to fix a broken image

[Flep182]

This sums up the last few pages of this thread quite nicely, wouldn't you agree 

Hahahahahaha!

To be honest, I'd like to ditch the free cleverhashlet they gave me but with the rates in the hashmarket they don't tend to go that fast.

[eightcylinders]

I had to drop to:

$8.60 per multihashlet
$9 per Cleverhashlet
$9 per Wafflehashlet
$14 for zen hashlet

in order to finally sell my remaining solos.  It is interesting that the lowest prices in the market are not even taken after 24 hours .. I know because for the past week I have progressively lowered my hashlet solos to be below the lowest price and yet few sold.  I had to reduce by 20% or so below the lowest price before I got them sold.

Thank god, I am finally out with only a small loss (about 35K invested originally if you include hardware prices of converted miners so I was sweating this one).

[Oldminer]

I had to drop to:

$8.60 per multihashlet
$9 per Cleverhashlet
$9 per Wafflehashlet
$14 for zen hashlet

in order to finally sell my remaining solos.  It is interesting that the lowest prices in the market are not even taken after 24 hours .. I know because for the past week I have progressively lowered my hashlet solos to be below the lowest price and yet few sold.  I had to reduce by 20% or so below the lowest price before I got them sold.

Thank god, I am finally out with only a small loss (about 35K invested originally if you include hardware prices of converted miners so I was sweating this one).

Wow thats some low numbers...but then its kind of reflective of the all-time low payouts atm...

Suddenly the $16 I got for my zen's some days ago looks pretty good.

I'm just glad I'm out.

Edit: Heres yet another example of how easily you can get burnt on Zencloud (despite numerous warnings about this issue to Josh himself who obviously couldnt care less as long as he's making money) https://hashtalk.org/topic/13209/accidentally-sold-20mh-s-zenhashlet-for-18-05/4

[NeonTranceBadger]

I had to drop to:

$8.60 per multihashlet
$9 per Cleverhashlet
$9 per Wafflehashlet
$14 for zen hashlet

in order to finally sell my remaining solos.  It is interesting that the lowest prices in the market are not even taken after 24 hours .. I know because for the past week I have progressively lowered my hashlet solos to be below the lowest price and yet few sold.  I had to reduce by 20% or so below the lowest price before I got them sold.

Thank god, I am finally out with only a small loss (about 35K invested originally if you include hardware prices of converted miners so I was sweating this one).

Wow thats some low numbers...but then its kind of reflective of the all-time low payouts atm...

Suddenly the $16 I got for my zen's some days ago looks pretty good.

I'm just glad I'm out.

Edit: Heres yet another example of how easily you can get burnt on Zencloud (despite numerous warnings about this issue to Josh himself who obviously couldnt care less as long as he's making money) https://hashtalk.org/topic/13209/accidentally-sold-20mh-s-zenhashlet-for-18-05/4

This is such a dumb statement and this is because these people are to lazy to read.  It says selling price not selling price per mh/s, maybe these people need to learn to double check what they typed in before clicking confirm three times.  I have put up a few 5 mh/s zens on the market and before I even clicked confirm I double checked that I had the right price in the box.  In the end I don't feel bad for these people for not checking everything before they clicked confirm THREE times.  Why the hell would GAW want to make a commission off a 20mh/s sold at $16 when they could make a higher commission off of 20mh/s sold at $320.

[Snipe85]

Yes, "trust me" GAW sux, I'm an LTC gear affiliate, use the link in my signature.

An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a form of criticism directed at something about the person one is criticizing, rather than something (potentially, at least) independent of that person.  When used inappropriately, it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized.

  Wikipedia definition here

For example, it is an ad hominem fallacy to argue that one should ignore the very relevant concerns about GAW that I have expressed, on the basis of a link to a completely different company in my signature.

Of course rational thought is not big in the GAW camp these days so maybe logical fallacies don't bother you.

His comment was relevant in this situation, because you're not making a point, you're ridiculing the situation.
Your every post is advertising a competing cloud mining am I right? So even if you write something completely pointless it's all good, as long as the signature is visible.
You're also citing ad hominem, but writing in the same manner: Of course rational thought is not big in the GAW camp these days so maybe logical fallacies don't bother you.

[alienesb]

Meh, I've sold plenty and it's not so hard to understand plus they give you three chances to see what you're doing before you do it. People that screw this up should slow down or are too stupid to be in crypto to begin with.

[Mapuo]

Linked from here:
https://hashtalk.org/topic/12390/bitmain-confirmation

After a conversation with one of our customers, I decided that there is more I can do to create more transparency without giving up any competitive information. So I am creating this thread to ask Bitmain to confirm some of our orders.

Bitmain, can you please confirm that GAW Miners most recent order was over 5 peta hash?

No...

Code:

Name: 	BITMAIN
Posts: 	542
Activity: 	350
Position: 	Sr. Member
Date Registered: 	03 November 2013, 15:25:35
Last Active: 	Today at 08:54:09

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=827552

[klintay]

Here's another gem:

ZenPool Fluctuations

Hello,

As some of you may know, we use a combination of mining IPO coins, multipools, etc to achieve the payouts ZenPool offers. Our most important method is renting out hash power to private companies.

I am in the process of renegotiating the contract between us and our largest private buyer. The payouts will drop for a bit while I finish the negotiation, the will return at or a higher rate then before. I ask for your patience while I finish this.

Just a heads up

An additional silver lining is that, soon, we will not need to do private rentals. We will be able to use it for ourselves for Project Prime

https://hashtalk.org/topic/11712/zenpool-fluctuations/3

So... I guess we're going to see a couple of days or maybe a week of shit returns all around. Woo hoo! And this is why all my reinvest goes into LTCgear right now (until they screw us.)

that sounds very fishy...gaw miners trying to be bernie madoff of the btc world or something?

[coinGeek]

In fact, my payout today was less than my service charge. Anyone else see that?

Same thing today. My account was almost empty at $0.99 on Monday. Yesterday it went down to $0.40 and today it's $0.04. I will be funny to see what they do when my account goes negative.

It looks like I'm being overcharged though so I submitted a ticket. We'll see what happens

[suchmoon]

In fact, my payout today was less than my service charge. Anyone else see that?

Same thing today. My account was almost empty at $0.99 on Monday. Yesterday it went down to $0.40 and today it's $0.04. I will be funny to see what they do when my account goes negative.

It looks like I'm being overcharged though so I submitted a ticket. We'll see what happens

What do you have? Maybe some less-than-10 GH/s Genesis hashlets? Those are known to have glitchy fees.

[cma3]

In fact, my payout today was less than my service charge. Anyone else see that?

Same thing today. My account was almost empty at $0.99 on Monday. Yesterday it went down to $0.40 and today it's $0.04. I will be funny to see what they do when my account goes negative.

It looks like I'm being overcharged though so I submitted a ticket. We'll see what happens

What do you have? Maybe some less-than-10 GH/s Genesis hashlets? Those are known to have glitchy fees.

Yeah there was a notice in zencloud pertaining to service charges on Genesis. Not sure if this is what happened to coinGeek. I've been hearing complaints all week that span the gamut.