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Author Topic: GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)  (Read 262832 times)
Flep182
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November 12, 2014, 10:33:33 PM
 #4381

Something I'm missing in ZenCloud btw (just thought of this) is an option to add an order for something at a certain low price. There is only a sellers market.

I'd be willing to scoop up 100 Gh/s Genesis for 3USD per 10 if someone is offering for example. Now price is dictated by the lowest price that hasn't sold yet.
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jimmothy
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November 12, 2014, 10:35:04 PM
 #4382


Something doesn't quite add up.

$12m worth of hashlets at $15/mh is 800 GH/s.

By "producing $8m of profit" I assume they are basing that on the increase in $/mh. Since vaultbreakers were sold at ~$10/mh and could be sold for up to $50/mh that makes a max profit of $40/mh. $8m profit at $40/mh is another 200 GH/s worth of primes.

800 GH/s + 200 GH/s = 1000 GH/s.

On October 2nd the entire litecoin network was 1036 GH/s so I suppose only ~36 GH/s is not controlled by GAW.

This doesn't even take in to consideration boosts, double pool mining, red rockets, and whatever magically made their pool payout more than any other litecoin pool.

The reason it doesn't add up is that you are assuming that they mine scrypt.

It does say "$12M in sales within weeks of release."

Genesis hashlet was released 3 weeks after launch, would you consider that "within weeks"?

Even if ~10-20% of sales went to genesis hashlets I don't think their claims would be any less ridiculous.
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November 12, 2014, 10:53:19 PM
 #4383


Haa.. It's interesting how he uses a webinar others <cough> have been promoting for almost a week to support Ms. Boring's mainstream endeavors as something he may have anything to do with. Oh well, hopefully he learned something IF he actually watched it.
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November 12, 2014, 10:59:49 PM
Last edit: November 12, 2014, 11:32:18 PM by KC6TTR
 #4384

I have been reading a book on the history of public finance over the last 3,000 years (A free nation deep in debt) and I must admit that josh has done a brilliant job in taking out short term high interest loans, which have been increasing parleyed into long-term low interest loans through his slashing of interest rates (zenpool), 10% surcharge on the market value of each traded loan (via the marketplace), and now our present state of complete deferment of interest by using hashcoins.

All coupled with a 33% debasement of the currency in which the loans will always be repaid (btc was above 600 when this started).

GAW must be quite heavily in the black due to these time honored financial double-dealings that have for so long characterized sovereign borrowing. If events continue in this fashion, then GAW will soon have the majority of its debt converted into its own sovereign currency which it can then debase to the point that all will be "repaid," but in worthless hashcoins. They will have a tremendous financial incentive to do so.

Remember the well-reasoned hashtalk post worried than HC's need for 10 million USD/day was too high? Well, if he is correct in his mathematical analysis then it is hardly a flaw, but in GAW's best interest to keep their absurdly high level of coin generation at launch mixed with impossible market cap--it will make the fall all the swifter and GAW's profits all the greater as they pay off the remainder of their debts. No doubt there will be another buy back offer after the fiasco, but at below face value again.

Sorry for the wandering post, but anyone interested in financial history should read this book. It has intriguing arguments regarding decentralization, democratization, and public debt.

@jimmothy  +1

@MOB - Excellent book and insight - although I believe the high-interest loans were immediately parleyed from the beginning in to long-term deferred interest transactions. Why? Because GAW/Zen effectively has 100% control over the terms of every transaction and we all know - whomever has control over the terms has control over the $$.

Scott-
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November 12, 2014, 11:26:10 PM
 #4385

You must have missed the nice conversation about one of the speakers we had few days back.

You must have missed my :grinning: face ->  Grin
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November 13, 2014, 12:52:33 AM
 #4386

The fact is BTC is up almost $100 in the past week, so how much has GAWS cost its customers by diverting their BTC miners to this new "plan"?

I hate to point out the obvious... but GAWS has cost people alot of money, who paid for a certain mining service.  

I can't say that I agree with you in this case... if GAW customers want to mine the ZenPool or any other pool they are free to do so, almost everybody switched to HP but had they stayed on something that yields BTC they may have benefited from that increase in some way.  If we say for sake of conversation that someone's maintenance was BTC0.03 at $300 it would be BTC0.0225 at $400 and it may make sense to mine towards BTC at this point.  The user gets to chose if they want to mine HP or not.

I know there is more to this than my previous statement but all the BTC pools are still there to use, users can still sell for decent money and they made the conscious decision to switch to HP themselves.  Many will argue that it was the only decision that made sense (to switch) but the bottom line remains that at some point users have to take part of the blame, they signed up (myself included) for an $0.08 maintenance fee and payouts tied to pool returns, difficulty and BTC prices did the rest. We can debate everything that happened and led to this (Zenpool and everything else) but at some point users have to take some responsibility for their actions / decisions.

So for this specific comment I can't say that I agree with you, if I decide to mine HP for a week and BTC skyrockets I have only myself to blame.

Keep in mind although customers have part to blame its hard for the customers not to have mined HP with all the propaganda and advertisement GAW is selling about hashpoints and there worth as well as them severely crippling zenpool (seriously they said they would renegotiate the rates but how long do these negotiations actually take if they put a decent effort into it). Zenpool might not have those crazy high payouts it once did but it definitely should be the top pool compared to the others.

Well raising the "maitenance" rates to 80 or more percent to mine BTC was a motivating factor, then the "mine their HashCoin" was a bit of a bait and switch. I do mine other coins and they are of my choosing, not because I am being forced to. I thought about it and choose to sell my miners and apply the funds on a legit cloud mining service rather than being forced to mine this hash coin.  I am out of GAWS and ZEN and got some bargain BTC miners to replace the GAW/ZEN.... when BTC was around $325, I didnt loose much. But still I cannot under stand why people are wasting their time and money messing with the Hash Coin uncertainty when they could have been mining BTC and banking profits before the run up.

BTW at the moment GAWS is no where near the best cloud miners.... I do not deal with any that charge more than 50% maitenance. 
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November 13, 2014, 01:00:56 AM
 #4387

Yea I think it's commonly known that their mining performance pretty much sucks. The only sell they have is if hash coin works. And given their unreliable history with other technical efforts I have my doubts.

I sold off enough to at least break even and invested elsewhere. So if it goes bottoms up no suprise and won't lose out a bunch.

People buying into it now have to be very foolish or the type that gets robed in pump n dumps.
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November 13, 2014, 03:53:59 AM
 #4388

SoooOOOOoooo... has anyone received word on a viable resolution to at least the two most obvious bullet points below that have either not materialized or have been proven inaccurate? To clarify, this is from GAW/Zen's own product page (http://www.gawminers.com/pages/hashlet), which is still present and being marketed to potential customers at the time of this posting.



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November 13, 2014, 04:08:23 AM
 #4389

SoooOOOOoooo... has anyone received word on a viable resolution to at least the two most obvious bullet points below that have either not materialized or have been proven inaccurate? To clarify, this is from GAW/Zen's own product page (http://www.gawminers.com/pages/hashlet), which is still present and being marketed to potential customers at the time of this posting.





Are you talking about bullets 3 and 7?  Yes right now that is false advertisement, seeing that HashBit or whatever it's called is paying out higher than ZenPool and there has never been any depreciation on the maintenance cost for the Primes.
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November 13, 2014, 04:49:05 AM
Last edit: November 13, 2014, 05:08:48 AM by MOB
 #4390

I believe Josh's answers to those questions were:

1. Zenpool is the most profitable pool on average over the course of a month*

2. You haven't waited long enough


*He will be able to extend this claim all the way to "most profitable over an average of four months," so prepare for Zenpool to continue sucking for another 90 days.



Just need to point out: anyone who bought BTC instead of GAW crap in the last 30 days is now up more than 400 days of mining.
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November 13, 2014, 05:11:17 AM
 #4391

I believe Josh's answers to those questions were:

1. Zenpool is the most profitable pool on average over the course of a month*

2. You haven't waited long enough


*He will be able to extend this claim all the way to "most profitable over an average of four months," so prepare for Zenpool to continue sucking for another 90 days.

Even that might not be necessary. For example right now ZenPool is at the top again, but the rates overall are so abysmal compared to 22 HP per MH/s that it doesn't really make much of a difference. This might go on forever with a heavy incentive to mine HP/HC instead of BTC. HC just needs a long maturity period, or high interest rate, or some other disincentive/protection against dumping.
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November 13, 2014, 05:45:58 AM
 #4392

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -
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November 13, 2014, 05:50:22 AM
 #4393

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -

Yes. This is the problem I'm having with them at the moment. They are basing the fees on dollar value ($0.08/mh scrypt), yet as BTC is gainging in value to the dollar, we are not seeing the fees dropping.
It does not make sense, as BTC has gained 30% on the dollar, fees should have gone down the same 30%.
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November 13, 2014, 06:13:13 AM
 #4394

I just read that people won't even be able to convert hp to hc straight away while gaw "mines" enough hc to allow conversion. Fuck how are these fools thinking this will make them rich?
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November 13, 2014, 06:52:39 AM
 #4395

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -

Yes. This is the problem I'm having with them at the moment. They are basing the fees on dollar value ($0.08/mh scrypt), yet as BTC is gainging in value to the dollar, we are not seeing the fees dropping.
It does not make sense, as BTC has gained 30% on the dollar, fees should have gone down the same 30%.

Watch the amount of BTC taken out in the next payout. You will see it will be less BTC. It is the same old 8 cents it has been. Just like most people that mine with hardware you pay electricity for the rig, you have to cool it, you have to pay for that space and the people that watch over them. Their costs are in dollars so there fees should stay steady until they feel comfortable lowering fees, financially speaking. How has everyone's home miners been doing the last month? After you actually pay all the bills. Now with that said they have issues with them drawing us in to mine To be paid in BTC and that the pool they claimed was so good became just another pool. There was a high premium paid because of that pool. If people would have known it was based on a short term contract people would not have paid that premium.
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November 13, 2014, 07:05:04 AM
 #4396

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -

I find it pretty funny that you keep saying "virtual" and "mythical" when referring to hash coin or zen pool. What is BTC? What have all the nay Sayers been saying for years? What about all the other mining pools? I am pretty sure they are virtual because I can't find one to jump in. I can't touch BTC I can't see a BTC so someone could say it is fake or a myth and that you can trade this myth but for how long? It is not backed by anything it has no real value other then what you or I put on it. No one really knows what it will be worth until it is traded on the market. It could be a hit or it could flop. No one knows right now so stop acting all high and mighty like you know all. Can I ask you what have you done for crypto? Have you tried to help advance it? Or do you just complain? GAW is trying to advance it in a way they think will work. Maybe it will maybe it won't only time will tell. So instead of complaining about GAW how about you do something to make it better. Even if you fail at least you tried. All I see is an arm chair quarterback throwing crap every where.
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November 13, 2014, 10:28:54 AM
 #4397

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -

I find it pretty funny that you keep saying "virtual" and "mythical" when referring to hash coin or zen pool. What is BTC? What have all the nay Sayers been saying for years? What about all the other mining pools? I am pretty sure they are virtual because I can't find one to jump in. I can't touch BTC I can't see a BTC so someone could say it is fake or a myth and that you can trade this myth but for how long? It is not backed by anything it has no real value other then what you or I put on it. No one really knows what it will be worth until it is traded on the market. It could be a hit or it could flop. No one knows right now so stop acting all high and mighty like you know all. Can I ask you what have you done for crypto? Have you tried to help advance it? Or do you just complain? GAW is trying to advance it in a way they think will work. Maybe it will maybe it won't only time will tell. So instead of complaining about GAW how about you do something to make it better. Even if you fail at least you tried. All I see is an arm chair quarterback throwing crap every where.
I am glad you find rational thought funny. You come across as exactly the type of customer they love.

First lets, define a few key points before anything is debated, which I welcome unlike someone else I know of who would rather censor, band, and/or threaten with legal action - even if he/she/they have no fundamental legal merits to stand on.

What do I consider virtual in regards to mining and/or pools?
As someone with an actual hardware based mining farm that I can physically look at (inspect), control, and tinker with, anything that does not at the very least meet one of these traits is "virtual" in my classification - remote or not. Likewise, one of the many TOS resvisions made by GAW/Zen has finally admitted what many suspected regarding their own classification of their "Hashlet" miners being "digital" in nature, which can also be included in the "virtual" classification if you're in to semantics. Lastly, the simple act of naming their in-house pools after real-world known and verifiable pools, in itself does not afford them the liberty to say they are "mining" these pools or given expressed permission to use the names by the real pool owners; especially when they are not willing to provide any proof of who or what is actually being mined. For over 6 months, every real pool operator polled, including NiceHash, has gone on the record stating there is no and never has been any real activity on their networks that would reasonably conclude any mining by GAW/Zen ever took place - at least on any fractional scale of what was being claimed by GAW/Zen at any time.

Why do I believe Hashcoin is mythical?
Because it is... There is no third party verifiable proof of concept, code, blockchain derivative, or proper wallet infrastructure that would lead a reasonable person to believe otherwise. In my view, nothing presented to date at hashcoin.com or elsewhere, including their poor attempt at a whitepaper, is reflective of what is required by the crypto or investment industries to openly support the release of this new altcoin derivative that is promoted by its "developer" as "world-changing" with the backing of multi-billion dollar entities. I'm sorry, but the real world doesn't work that way. 

Who am I to say such things?
Well, I do not claim to be a HashKing or HashTitan like others we will not name here nor is it my intent to come across all high and mighty, but since you asked - look up my name via my callsign.

What have I done for crypto?
This is where I believe the men are separated from the boys. The nature and roots of modern day cryptography goes back several decades (pre-WWII) and more times than not, those who do anything to progress the ideals and technology as a whole make it a point NOT to advertise it or brag about anything. With that said, below is a very brief and already public summary of my work in the arena - over the past 20 years at least.

1997 - Designer and developer of the first 100% US based micro-universal ISO7816 smart card reader/writer utilizing a simple RS232 TTL line converter (age 25).
1998 - Designer and developer of the first 100% US based and self contained universal ISO7816 smart card development terminal that utilized secure 8-bit cryptography management via an Atmel AT90S series MCU (age 26).
2000 - Facilitator and co-developer of the CHAOS rolling code algorithm that has not, to this day, been broken as it does not include nor fascinate any computational backdoors (age 28).
2001 - Contributing member of the Microsoft PC/SC Consortium that helped established and evolve the PC/SC single-sign-on process (age 29).
2002 - Contributor and co-developer of dozens of embedded smart chips cards with up to 32bit RISC based encryption processors @ 120MIPS and secure memory storage capabilities exceeding 16MB per wafer (age 30).
2004 - Present -  Partial retirement, but still active worldwide. I hardware-mine BTC and other cyropcurrencies and I have found a nice home within the Dogecoin community, which I find is an excellent platform to teach and bridge the gap between the crypto world and traditional FIAT based society. I have my own philanthropic venture at dogecoin.pro and have quietly contributed to the formation of the Dogecoin Foundation v2 as I have had time.

Even if you, I, or anyone else cannot physically see or hold BTC or these other existing and proven cryptos, they exist based on their clearly defined mission statements, demonstrable merits, and functional utility; something GAW/Zen has not been able to show to date, among other things, and why I have lost all personal faith is what they stand for.

I can go on, but it is my hope that is more than enough background for you to accept that I am not talking out of my arse and why I am so passionate when I see what I believe to be a person or small business trying to take advantage of and attempt to (what I consider) rape the industry of the principles it was built upon for his/their own financial gain. With all this said, a very small part of me still wishes GAW/Zen is able to step up and prove my better judgment wrong, but for all intensive purposes I do not see that happening.

Scott-
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November 13, 2014, 01:22:33 PM
 #4398

What do I consider virtual in regards to mining and/or pools?
As someone with an actual hardware based mining farm that I can physically look at (inspect), control, and tinker with, anything that does not at the very least meet one of these traits is "virtual" in my classification - remote or not. Likewise, one of the many TOS resvisions made by GAW/Zen has finally admitted what many suspected regarding their own classification of their "Hashlet" miners being "digital" in nature, which can also be included in the "virtual" classification if you're in to semantics.

The funny part.

Following this:
Cryptocurency is virtual
Cloud mining is virtual
Radio waves are virtual
Digital pictures and documents are virtual
The internet is virtual

Does virtual mean worse?

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November 13, 2014, 01:42:13 PM
 #4399

Regardless, one can reasonably assume it is not what they say in their ads, it is what they leave up to you to discover and/or blindly accept after the fact, yes? If so, that's a sign of a real honest company right there - not.

It appears while just about every other cloud mining business is reducing fees (some multi-times in the previous 3 weeks) and earning customers' more revenue based on real world numbers, this single self-proclaimed industry changer has done nothing to reduce fees and/or resolve the pitiful "virtual" pool performances vs. high costs associated with investing in them. Oh well, at least they have their mythical coin that will be worth its weight in gold if/when released. Roll Eyes

- BUYER BEWARE -

I find it pretty funny that you keep saying "virtual" and "mythical" when referring to hash coin or zen pool. What is BTC? What have all the nay Sayers been saying for years? What about all the other mining pools? I am pretty sure they are virtual because I can't find one to jump in. I can't touch BTC I can't see a BTC so someone could say it is fake or a myth and that you can trade this myth but for how long? It is not backed by anything it has no real value other then what you or I put on it. No one really knows what it will be worth until it is traded on the market. It could be a hit or it could flop. No one knows right now so stop acting all high and mighty like you know all. Can I ask you what have you done for crypto? Have you tried to help advance it? Or do you just complain? GAW is trying to advance it in a way they think will work. Maybe it will maybe it won't only time will tell. So instead of complaining about GAW how about you do something to make it better. Even if you fail at least you tried. All I see is an arm chair quarterback throwing crap every where.

LOL you made me laugh... RU SERIOUS???

Crypto currency is based on decentralized block chains and there is nothing decentralized about monopolizing a block chain by one entity? That breaches the basic bottom line of the definition of crypto currency, No matter how you try to define it. I dont know what GAWS/ZEN trying to do, but one thing for sure calling it a crypto coin is very misleading.
 

wdl1908
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November 13, 2014, 02:34:31 PM
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Crypto currency is based on decentralized block chains and there is nothing decentralized about monopolizing a block chain by one entity? That breaches the basic bottom line of the definition of crypto currency, No matter how you try to define it. I dont know what GAWS/ZEN trying to do, but one thing for sure calling it a crypto coin is very misleading.

I think you missed something.

https://hashtalk.org/topic/17657
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