Scientific proof that God exists?

[BADecker]

the reasons for the Bible are basically, in simplistic form:

1. Salvation of souls for the afterlife;
2. Directions and instructions for living a better life here.

Regarding #2 above: The Bible gives instructions for living a good life here. It is filled with many examples of how God favors people who follow the instructions. It gives many examples of how God is against those people who don't follow the instructions, even though He patiently puts up with them, often for a long time. In addition, it shows how difficult it is to live a life that follows the instructions entirely.

Can you give us some examples of those directions and instructions for living a better life in the bible?

Yes, I can. Well, I think I can. Not knowing the future, maybe if I truly tried, I would find that I couldn't.

So... What are they?

There's the Ten Commandments for starters. They are first written in the book of Exodus, in the O.T. Following them are other rules that make a lot of sense where they apply to us in life.

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[Rassah]

the reasons for the Bible are basically, in simplistic form:

1. Salvation of souls for the afterlife;
2. Directions and instructions for living a better life here.

Regarding #2 above: The Bible gives instructions for living a good life here. It is filled with many examples of how God favors people who follow the instructions. It gives many examples of how God is against those people who don't follow the instructions, even though He patiently puts up with them, often for a long time. In addition, it shows how difficult it is to live a life that follows the instructions entirely.

Can you give us some examples of those directions and instructions for living a better life in the bible?

Yes, I can. Well, I think I can. Not knowing the future, maybe if I truly tried, I would find that I couldn't.

So... What are they?

There's the Ten Commandments for starters. They are first written in the book of Exodus, in the O.T. Following them are other rules that make a lot of sense where they apply to us in life.

Of the ten, only five, half, are actually good for late bing a better let me: don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't bear false witness against your neighbor, and don't covet. The one about honoring your mother and father are dubious, since people should be honored for what they do, not what they are (what if your father is a violent alcoholic, and your parents generally neglect you?)

What about things like don't rape, don't force people into slavery, don't commit fraud or lie, don't hit people, don't destroy other's property, or even just help others who need it if you're able? Seems like a lot of waste using up the first 4 of those commandments for just vain stuff.

[BADecker]

the reasons for the Bible are basically, in simplistic form:

1. Salvation of souls for the afterlife;
2. Directions and instructions for living a better life here.

Regarding #2 above: The Bible gives instructions for living a good life here. It is filled with many examples of how God favors people who follow the instructions. It gives many examples of how God is against those people who don't follow the instructions, even though He patiently puts up with them, often for a long time. In addition, it shows how difficult it is to live a life that follows the instructions entirely.

Can you give us some examples of those directions and instructions for living a better life in the bible?

Yes, I can. Well, I think I can. Not knowing the future, maybe if I truly tried, I would find that I couldn't.

So... What are they?

There's the Ten Commandments for starters. They are first written in the book of Exodus, in the O.T. Following them are other rules that make a lot of sense where they apply to us in life.

Of the ten, only five, half, are actually good for late bing a better let me: don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't bear false witness against your neighbor, and don't covet. The one about honoring your mother and father are dubious, since people should be honored for what they do, not what they are (what if your father is a violent alcoholic, and your parents generally neglect you?)

What about things like don't rape, don't force people into slavery, don't commit fraud or lie, don't hit people, don't destroy other's property, or even just help others who need it if you're able? Seems like a lot of waste using up the first 4 of those commandments for just vain stuff.

Actually, in the Ten Commandments, the more important ones are listed first. God holds everything in place... life and everything else. Those of us who value our lives should acknowledge God and His patience with us. After all, He has absolute control, no matter what we think about the ways that He uses the control He has.

[bl4kjaguar]

Why does BADecker say that my God is the devil...
when he does not know anything about my God?

Can you not forgive them, too, in a Christian truth and have compassion for their fall---or do you sit in judgment of ALL?

If you denounce all who project the words of your Bible and the ones who effort at correcting misconceptions---who is left? Let me be one of the first, perhaps, to tell you----Satan dear one.

"Expose" me as a fraud? I sincerely doubt that you shall expose me for anything for I suggest that you would not make the effort required to either research facts or make announcement.

Does BADecker supply us with any evidence?
Only if you intend to limit God and God's WORD like BADecker is doing...

Now remember,
To denounce out of ignorance is called "hate".

You never bothered to compare my truth with the other truths you are familiar with.

[BADecker]

Why does BADecker say that my God is the devil...
when he does not know anything about my God?

Can you not forgive them, too, in a Christian truth and have compassion for their fall---or do you sit in judgment of ALL?

If you denounce all who project the words of your Bible and the ones who effort at correcting misconceptions---who is left? Let me be one of the first, perhaps, to tell you----Satan dear one.

"Expose" me as a fraud? I sincerely doubt that you shall expose me for anything for I suggest that you would not make the effort required to either research facts or make announcement.

Does BADecker supply us with any evidence?
Only if you intend to limit God and God's WORD like BADecker is doing...

Now remember,
To denounce out of ignorance is called "hate".

You never bothered to compare my truth with the other truths you are familiar with.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.   

[bl4kjaguar]

BADecker, that is not Christian behavior.
When will you take responsibility for the things you have said in this very thread?

Why does BADecker say that my God is the devil...
when he does not know anything about my God?

Some Bible teachings to keep in mind:

Do not judge others, and you will not be judged.
For you will be treated as you treat others.
The standard you use in judging
is the standard by which you will be judged.

He that keeps his mouth
takes care of his soul,
and he that opens his lips
works shipwreck to his soul.

[Vod]

"The earliest versions of Mark stop at 16:8. It’s an awkward ending, with three women who have gone to the tomb where Jesus was laid after the Crucifixion encountering a man who tells them to let the disciples know that the resurrected Jesus will see them in Galilee. The women flee the tomb, and 'neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.’

In early copies of the original Greek writings, that’s it. The 12 verses that follow in modern Bibles—Jesus appearing to Mary Magdalene and the Disciples and then ascending to Heaven—are not there."

Surely there must be some sort of debate or refutation of this fact somewhere? I cannot believe that the central tenet of Christianity - the resurrection of Jesus - was just tacked on by scribes later, that this is known to scholars, and has gone unremarked upon until Newsweek came along...

I thought this was an enjoyable article, but I would hate to introduce it to a discussion when the truth is not nearly so clear-cut as is presented. I'll have to do some more research. Does anyone have anything relevant?

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/02/thats-not-what-bible-says-294018.html

[the joint]

I really doubt there is any scientific proof to describe god existence.

Who need proofs about unicorn or flying spaghetti monster?

As I've explained many times in this thread,  unicorns or flying spaghetti monsters are invalid rebuttals against the existence of monotheistic gods because they are instead characterized like polytheistic gods.

There is no amount of empirical evidence that could prove or disprove a monotheistic god, and so debating whether God exists in an empirical context is a flawed approach.

[BitChick]

the reasons for the Bible are basically, in simplistic form:

1. Salvation of souls for the afterlife;
2. Directions and instructions for living a better life here.

Regarding #2 above: The Bible gives instructions for living a good life here. It is filled with many examples of how God favors people who follow the instructions. It gives many examples of how God is against those people who don't follow the instructions, even though He patiently puts up with them, often for a long time. In addition, it shows how difficult it is to live a life that follows the instructions entirely.

Can you give us some examples of those directions and instructions for living a better life in the bible?

Yes, I can. Well, I think I can. Not knowing the future, maybe if I truly tried, I would find that I couldn't.

So... What are they?

There's the Ten Commandments for starters. They are first written in the book of Exodus, in the O.T. Following them are other rules that make a lot of sense where they apply to us in life.

Of the ten, only five, half, are actually good for late bing a better let me: don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't bear false witness against your neighbor, and don't covet. The one about honoring your mother and father are dubious, since people should be honored for what they do, not what they are (what if your father is a violent alcoholic, and your parents generally neglect you?)

What about things like don't rape, don't force people into slavery, don't commit fraud or lie, don't hit people, don't destroy other's property, or even just help others who need it if you're able? Seems like a lot of waste using up the first 4 of those commandments for just vain stuff.

Jumping in here after a month or two.

The first four commandments are about putting God in His proper place and in doing so, a person should then feel compelled to carry out the rest of the commandments out of love for God and then because of understanding who God is, choosing to love others because of that.  In today's society there is a belief that we can just choose to love others and skip the first part.  But the question of where does our conscience or even knowledge of right and wrong come from?  I believe that our conscience is the Holy Spirit speaking to us.  We have a voice that tells us what is right and wrong and it is God speaking to us.  Many religions have these same sets of laws in them and morality can have a common thread throughout religion and cultures, but where does that common morality originate? 

As for the main purpose of the commandments, Galatians 5:14 says:  For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."   In reality I believe sin is anything that hurts others.  If a person truly loves others he will not be sinning in doing so.  If we just stop focusing on what the "rules" are and start having love and compassion for others we would all be doing what God wills for us.  However, we get stuck on a list of "do's and don'ts" when they are just there to open our eyes to the fact we all have fallen short of God's law in one way or another and need to humbly come to Him in repentance for that.

[bl4kjaguar]

"The earliest versions of Mark stop at 16:8. It’s an awkward ending, with three women who have gone to the tomb

I'll have to do some more research. Does anyone have anything relevant?

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/01/02/thats-not-what-bible-says-294018.html

Why are all three women called "Mary"? Is that not a clue?!

Indeed, the Bible is not what many want it to be.

Why not read God's WORD as published in the Phoenix Journals?

You gain truth by evaluation of that which is offered--in full, for yourself.

You can only know information if you read it or get it for yourself,
else it is someone else's opinion or perception.

[Sam the Man]

genuinely this post stirred so much...

I read posts that

angered
humoured
upset
confused
and just made me go what the hell..

That i guess sums up a good discussion

[bl4kjaguar]

debating whether God exists in an empirical context is a flawed approach.

It is a flawed approach because God has no limitations.

God's WORD is very real and
I suspect that is a better topic for debate/discussion.

IS HATONN REAL?

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE IF THAT WHICH I OFFER IS VALID TRUTH?

[bl4kjaguar]

If we just stop focusing on what the "rules" are and start having love and compassion for others we would all be doing what God wills for us. 

However, we get stuck on a list of "do's and don'ts" when they are just there to open our eyes to the fact we all have fallen short of God's law in one way or another

and need to humbly come to Him in repentance for that.

The most important thing is responsibility, not repentance.

[BitChick]

If we just stop focusing on what the "rules" are and start having love and compassion for others we would all be doing what God wills for us. 

However, we get stuck on a list of "do's and don'ts" when they are just there to open our eyes to the fact we all have fallen short of God's law in one way or another

and need to humbly come to Him in repentance for that.

The most important thing is responsibility, not repentance.

We how do we take "responsibility" for breaking God's laws?  The only way to do that is through repentance.

[Vod]

If we just stop focusing on what the "rules" are and start having love and compassion for others we would all be doing what God wills for us. 

However, we get stuck on a list of "do's and don'ts" when they are just there to open our eyes to the fact we all have fallen short of God's law in one way or another

and need to humbly come to Him in repentance for that.

The most important thing is responsibility, not repentance.

We how do we take "responsibility" for breaking God's laws?  The only way to do that is through repentance.

How about just ignore them?  The god in your mind has no power in the real world.   

[bl4kjaguar]

If we just stop focusing on what the "rules" are and start having love and compassion for others we would all be doing what God wills for us. 

However, we get stuck on a list of "do's and don'ts" when they are just there to open our eyes to the fact we all have fallen short of God's law in one way or another

and need to humbly come to Him in repentance for that.

The most important thing is responsibility, not repentance.

We how do we take "responsibility" for breaking God's laws?  The only way to do that is through repentance.

I think you will have a hard time proving that without supplying some definitions.

[bl4kjaguar]

Hi BitChick,

Suppose that you drop a ceramic plate on the ground and it shatters into pieces. You say "I am sorry" to the plate; however, the plate is not put back together again--it is still in pieces.

"I am sorry" is what comes to mind for me when I think of repentance.

[bl4kjaguar]

We how do we take "responsibility" for breaking God's laws?  The only way to do that is through repentance.

How about just ignore them?

This causes problems, for example "overpopulation" due to... lack of responsibility and ignorance of God's Laws.

LOOK AT YOUR WORLD AND CHECK IT OUT. ARE YOU INTO CHAOS AND TROUBLE OR ARE YOU IN THE MIDST OF HARMONY AND BALANCE IN GODLY TRUTH?

Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work? So what gives you right to pounce and pound on MINE?

[BADecker]

We how do we take "responsibility" for breaking God's laws?  The only way to do that is through repentance.

How about just ignore them?

This causes problems, for example "overpopulation" due to... lack of responsibility and ignorance of God's Laws.

LOOK AT YOUR WORLD AND CHECK IT OUT. ARE YOU INTO CHAOS AND TROUBLE OR ARE YOU IN THE MIDST OF HARMONY AND BALANCE IN GODLY TRUTH?

Maybe your way and "wisdom" didn't work? So what gives you right to pounce and pound on MINE?

A much smaller problem, but still a problem - because it leads people astray - is your writings that you follow. They have no strength. But they look somewhat right on the outside. They don't have the depth, scope and wisdom of the Bible. They bring about salvation for no-one, but attempt to turn people away from the only salvation that exists. They aren't foolishness except in the broad sense of their existence. And they are full of lies.

The reason they exist is to draw people away from the only salvation for eternal life that exists... salvation by believing in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. Their secondary goals is to make money or some other kind of value for their proponents, off people, by drawing followers after them, followers who will donate to their foolish and stupid cause.

The same to you as Saint Paul said to Elymas the sorcerer:

You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery. Will you never stop perverting the right ways of the Lord?

[bl4kjaguar]

They have no strength. But they look somewhat right on the outside.
They don't have the depth, scope and wisdom of the Bible.
They bring about salvation for no-one, but attempt to turn people away from the only salvation that exists.
They aren't foolishness except in the broad sense of their existence.
And they are full of lies.

Sorry to say but the only one lying here is you because:
you have no idea what is in my book
because you have never quoted from it;
so how would you know that it is full of lies?

You are trying to mislead by omitting vital information,
like the fact that you are NOT capable of exposing anything in the Journals as a lie
(because you refuse to quote from them).

You did not object to the TRUTH posted here;
you have no rational basis for calling it a lie.
YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW THAT OF WHICH YOU SPEAK.

Can you not forgive them, too, in a Christian truth and have compassion for their fall---or do you sit in judgment of ALL?

If you denounce all who project the words of your Bible and the ones who effort at correcting misconceptions---who is left? Let me be one of the first, perhaps, to tell you----Satan dear one.

"Expose" me as a fraud? I sincerely doubt that you shall expose me for anything for I suggest that you would not make the effort required to either research facts or make announcement.