Scientific proof that God exists?

[Astargath]

If God exists then he is a BAD God a malevolent God, why would he decieve us like this? Why wouldnt he just show us that he exists plain and simple. Why would he let accidents happen or a baby dying when that baby hasnt done anything wrong? If heaven exists why doesnt he take us there already instead of making us suffer?

You certainly are welcome to your opinion about the goodness or badness of God, or how you think He is deceitful.

Adam and Eve walked with God. Why don't we? Those of us who are not against Him walk with Him in spirit.

There is corruption in everything, even when someone hasn't personally done anything wrong. Adam and Eve brought the corruption on us all when they ate the fruit. If we were in their shoes, would we have done much better than they?

God is giving us time here to build our own glory somewhat, by bringing others to faith in Him. Those who make it to Heaven will wish that their time were longer here so that they could build their glory even more. Those who go to Hell will wish their time had been shorter here, so that they wouldn't have as many sins to pay for in HellFire.

And why exactly should we suffer because adam and eve fucked up? Thats totally not logical

Just because you don't remember voluntarily accepting their lineage at the time you were conceived...

I have no idea what you mean with that

[Buffer Overflow]

If God exists then he is a BAD God a malevolent God, why would he decieve us like this? Why wouldnt he just show us that he exists plain and simple. Why would he let accidents happen or a baby dying when that baby hasnt done anything wrong? If heaven exists why doesnt he take us there already instead of making us suffer?

Your wasting your time with these questions. Religious folk have an arsenal of rehearsed answers to these. You need to ask stuff they are unprepared for.

Just wanted to let you know that the way you are using the word "Your," above, isn't correct. You should be using the contraction "You're," contracted from the word combo "You are."

Oh. Is this relevant or are trying to score cheap points because your getting shot down in flames today?

[BADecker]

If God exists then he is a BAD God a malevolent God, why would he decieve us like this? Why wouldnt he just show us that he exists plain and simple. Why would he let accidents happen or a baby dying when that baby hasnt done anything wrong? If heaven exists why doesnt he take us there already instead of making us suffer?

You certainly are welcome to your opinion about the goodness or badness of God, or how you think He is deceitful.

Adam and Eve walked with God. Why don't we? Those of us who are not against Him walk with Him in spirit.

There is corruption in everything, even when someone hasn't personally done anything wrong. Adam and Eve brought the corruption on us all when they ate the fruit. If we were in their shoes, would we have done much better than they?

God is giving us time here to build our own glory somewhat, by bringing others to faith in Him. Those who make it to Heaven will wish that their time were longer here so that they could build their glory even more. Those who go to Hell will wish their time had been shorter here, so that they wouldn't have as many sins to pay for in HellFire.

And why exactly should we suffer because adam and eve fucked up? Thats totally not logical

Just because you don't remember voluntarily accepting their lineage at the time you were conceived...

I have no idea what you mean with that

The souls of people are prepared by God, beforehand... and held by Him. When there is an opening down here - a new child being conceived - the souls that God holds are given the opportunity to take the particular body that is being conceived. They have a choice. The first one that jumps gets it. Some may never take a body. What God will do with them in the hereafter is unknown.

[BADecker]

If God exists then he is a BAD God a malevolent God, why would he decieve us like this? Why wouldnt he just show us that he exists plain and simple. Why would he let accidents happen or a baby dying when that baby hasnt done anything wrong? If heaven exists why doesnt he take us there already instead of making us suffer?

Your wasting your time with these questions. Religious folk have an arsenal of rehearsed answers to these. You need to ask stuff they are unprepared for.

Just wanted to let you know that the way you are using the word "Your," above, isn't correct. You should be using the contraction "You're," contracted from the word combo "You are."

Oh. Is this relevant or are trying to score cheap points because your getting shot down in flames today?

Hey! You were the one complaining about redefining words. I was simply trying to show you one of the ways that you continually try to redefine the word "your." I had thought that you wanted more correctness in things. I was simply throwing in my two cents worth. Take another bite of that cookie or cake or whatever it is.



EDIT: Besides, I'm not getting shot down. Most of the rest of you are simply losing the gravity of the situation. You are floating up into the emptiness of space where you belong with all your empty talk.

[Astargath]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

[sitael]

If God exists then he is a BAD God a malevolent God, why would he decieve us like this? Why wouldnt he just show us that he exists plain and simple. Why would he let accidents happen or a baby dying when that baby hasnt done anything wrong? If heaven exists why doesnt he take us there already instead of making us suffer?

Maybe he created us (souls) and gave us free will to experience his ability to create by creating our own experiences. Some souls maybe decided to take part in his experiment some didn't. I believe that everyone at least think sometimes about him (some do much much more - creating religions, forcing their believes to others etc.) because deep inside we just know him.

Maybe we just forgot everything as soon we were born to our bodies. Maybe some souls are born to "wrong" parents who shouldn't have kids. Maybe some souls suffer simply because of other soul's actions. God has nothing to do with it. He can't break free will of anyone because his experiment would fail - ended prematurely. Maybe he want us to remember and find out how great his experiment (The universe) is "from the inside" without him exposing whole truth.

My last crazy guess: Maybe he didn't create the Universe, maybe he became one and we are "him". Maybe he just want to find out who/what he is by us and our bodies (eyes,ears..) Maybe that's why we have consciousness. Sorry for my bad english, I'm just trying to think outside of the box, that's all.

[BADecker]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

[Astargath]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Pretty cool story, any proofs besides the bible?

[BADecker]

If God exists then he is a BAD God a malevolent God, why would he decieve us like this? Why wouldnt he just show us that he exists plain and simple. Why would he let accidents happen or a baby dying when that baby hasnt done anything wrong? If heaven exists why doesnt he take us there already instead of making us suffer?

Maybe he created us (souls) and gave us free will to experience his ability to create by creating our own experiences. Some souls maybe decided to take part in his experiment some didn't. I believe that everyone at least think sometimes about him (some do much much more - creating religions, forcing their believes to others etc.) because deep inside we just know him.

Maybe we just forgot everything as soon we were born to our bodies. Maybe some souls are born to "wrong" parents who shouldn't have kids. Maybe some souls suffer simply because of other soul's actions. God has nothing to do with it. He can't break free will of anyone because his experiment would fail - ended prematurely. Maybe he want us to remember and find out how great his experiment (The universe) is "from the inside" without him exposing whole truth.

My last crazy guess: Maybe he didn't create the Universe, maybe he became one and we are "him". Maybe he just want to find out who/what he is by us and our bodies (eyes,ears..) Maybe that's why we have consciousness. Sorry for my bad english, I'm just trying to think outside of the box, that's all.

I enjoy your free thinking. Your best line is "... because deep inside we just know him."

[BADecker]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Pretty cool story, any proofs besides the bible?

No proofs to be applied to this thread. Now that we have accepted the existence of God, we really need to start other threads to expand on Who He is, and why, etc.

[Astargath]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Pretty cool story, any proofs besides the bible?

No proofs to be applied to this thread. Now that we have accepted the existence of God, we really need to start other threads to expand on Who He is, and why, etc.

So when you have absolutly no proofs for something you change subject hmm interesting

[sitael]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Isn't Eden just metaphor? That tree was "tree of knowledge" imho. At one point we simply found out that we can do bad things - destroy, hurt.. kill because of (/or thanks to) our free will. Maybe that was the point when everything went wrong and that's why it's written in the bible.. It wasn't real place imho.

[Buffer Overflow]

Besides, I'm not getting shot down.

LOL, yeah.

[Astargath]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Isn't Eden just metaphor? That tree was "tree of knowledge" imho. At one point we simply found out that we can do bad things - destroy, hurt.. kill because of (/or thanks to) our free will. Maybe that was the point when everything went wrong and that's why it's written in the bible.. It wasn't real place imho.

How does freewill aply to a kid dying right now in africa, there are hundreds that have done nothing and they are dying because of starvation, god could save them but he choses not to

[BADecker]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Isn't Eden just metaphor? That tree was "tree of knowledge" imho. At one point we simply found out that we can do bad things - destroy, hurt.. kill because of (/or thanks to) our free will. Maybe that was the point when everything went wrong and that's why it's written in the bible.. It wasn't real place imho.

I accept that it was a real place, and that the naming of the tree came after the happening there.

[BADecker]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Isn't Eden just metaphor? That tree was "tree of knowledge" imho. At one point we simply found out that we can do bad things - destroy, hurt.. kill because of (/or thanks to) our free will. Maybe that was the point when everything went wrong and that's why it's written in the bible.. It wasn't real place imho.

How does freewill aply to a kid dying right now in africa, there are hundreds that have done nothing and they are dying because of starvation, god could save them but he choses not to

This is a difficult question to answer.

One of the answers is that none of this will be remembered or brought to mind after it is over. The important point is the status that each individual will hold in the hereafter.

[BADecker]

Besides, I'm not getting shot down.

LOL, yeah.

Your buffer overfloweth.   

[sitael]

And how does that explain why we are getting punished for the mistakes of others? And if adam and eve made a mistake isnt it God fault for not making them good enough?

The corruption is in the genetics. We are in a lineage that includes their corrupted genetics.

God told them that they could eat the fruit of all the trees in the Garden except one. He did this to give them the free choice to do right rather than wrong, to glorify God for His greatness of creating them. The choice they were supposed to make was to NOT eat of that one tree. It was easy... they had all the rest of the trees to eat from.

It would have been to the benefit of Adam and Eve and us all if they had glorified God by obeying Him. He glorifies us, at times, through praise when we do good things. Just think how great His praise would have been of us if we had abstained from eating the fruit through all these thousands of years.

It was our choice, just like abstaining from sex until we are married is our best option today.

Isn't Eden just metaphor? That tree was "tree of knowledge" imho. At one point we simply found out that we can do bad things - destroy, hurt.. kill because of (/or thanks to) our free will. Maybe that was the point when everything went wrong and that's why it's written in the bible.. It wasn't real place imho.

How does freewill aply to a kid dying right now in africa, there are hundreds that have done nothing and they are dying because of starvation, god could save them but he choses not to

This is a difficult question to answer.

One of the answers is that none of this will be remembered or brought to mind after it is over. The important point is the status that each individual will hold in the hereafter.

Kid dying in the Africa? What about free will of it's parents? Or free will of the soul born which soon found out it was a horrible mistake? It sounds crazy but maybe the soul decided to found out how suffering feels. Soul can't imagine it without experience. Another explanation could be that the body can't exist without a soul and some poor soul was "grabbed" there.. Just guessing here..

[Astargath]

Let’s take the Christian God’s greatest act, creating the world and all who live on it (indirectly). The start of all this, on God’s own words: “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day”. Using genealogy, we can roughly estimate the age of the earth, as stated by the Bible, to be 6500 years. The very top estimate would be close to 10,000 years, but that’s a stretch. Science has proven that the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating has shown us this, and has remained consistent with lunar and terrestrial samples. In other words, we haven’t just tested this once in one situation, it’s been extensively tested. This isn’t a guess, or a hunch, there’s a substantial amount of evidence to back this up.

And that’s the geological age of the earth. What about the creatures on the earth? We, as human beings, were created 6500 years ago, according to the Bible, starting with Adam and then Eve. The oldest discovered human fossil is approximately 1,300,000 (1.3 million) years old. That would have meant that humans lived on earth before God created either humans or the earth. In fact, depending on how much evidence you consider to be acceptable, and how you define us as a species, you could place humans at between 1.8 million and 130,000 years old. No one could sensibly claim that humans are less than 130,000 years old. There is simply too much evidence available for our inspection. Either way, much older than the Bible’s claims.

[Buffer Overflow]

Using genealogy, we can roughly estimate the age of the earth, as stated by the Bible, to be 6500 years. The very top estimate would be close to 10,000 years, but that’s a stretch. Science has proven that the earth is closer to 4.5 billion years old. Radiometric dating has shown us this, and has remained consistent with lunar and terrestrial samples. In other words, we haven’t just tested this once in one situation, it’s been extensively tested. This isn’t a guess, or a hunch, there’s a substantial amount of evidence to back this up.

Unfortunately some people are so stubborn that they can keep themselves from believing the evidence even if it jumps up and bites them in the left eye.
BADecker will be along shortly to give us an actual real life example of such behaviour.