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Author Topic: (ANN) Netcoin has gone POS! With PIR & OWI  (Read 84538 times)
Netcoin Foundation
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September 04, 2014, 09:34:03 PM
 #121


@coinerer, actually we have seen a large increase in volume since implementing the changes, before there might not have been a buy for days... But hey there is much work to be done to get the word out there.

The coin was getting time warped for a long time, we need to let people know this has been fixed and there are no longer these network issues. There is still much work going on behind the scenes and there will continue to be... Did you really expect it to shoot up overnight? Things take time... But I see an nice steady increase in volume everyday and this is great Smiley

It shot down almost "overnight" from longer term perspective. If coin has no developing economy or user base at pace of at least of PoS, average coin value will fall. Only big buyer can save us Smiley


XD I'm really not sure how you come to this conclusion to be honest, it went UP overnight, sure it has come down to where it was again, but volume has definitely increased which is the possitive point here. I think the key now is to get the word out... We have more going for us than simply POS...

If you are talking about the crash from say 2000 to where we are now, I believe I covered this in the OP... We know why it crashed and rightfully so, I admittedly dropped the ball and at the time lacked the skills to fix the problem... Much has changed since then though... I mean to me price is not all that important... of course it is nice to have a good price but it's not the be all and end all.

I think as more people know about what we've done and when we present it better (currently in the works) things will improve in this regard.

EDIT: Also as for no development, I mean do you think POS conversion and the wallet design was done by itself, it was 5 months in the making to be honest... In part it took so long because I had to learn how to use Qt creator. A lot of hard work went into it and we are by no means done yet.

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September 05, 2014, 08:56:51 AM
 #122


It would be perfect idea to cancel all changes.



Please explain your point Coinerer WHY is it a perfect idea to cancel all changes.



After Bitcoin will add interest rate of 100% yearly, I will agree with Netcoin Foundation.

First Bitcoin, then Netcoin with PoS of 100%



If you read better the interest rate of 100% is only for the first year the second year you only get 45%
Besides how many people have more than 10 million NET?
I looked it up for you and there are 3 adresses with more then 10 million coins of which the biggest is inactive for 5 months already.
The other 2 are adresses from exchanges and they don,t stake they can,t actually

My opinion is that someone is jealous and is a little bit sick that bitcoin doesn,t have such innovatieve things Grin


i am worry about the number of NETCOIN will increace too much and i am rather worry about the exchange, why they can't get POS? i can tell you they can get POS. they can do anything to make money, even open the wallet for POS coins.
i don''t like this change to POS. the number will be increaced too much, sorry for your hard work, dev team.

maybe we need something new to attract people. POS is out, we need some innovations to improve NETCOIN. does anybody have good ideas?

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September 05, 2014, 12:14:11 PM
 #123


It would be perfect idea to cancel all changes.



Please explain your point Coinerer WHY is it a perfect idea to cancel all changes.



After Bitcoin will add interest rate of 100% yearly, I will agree with Netcoin Foundation.

First Bitcoin, then Netcoin with PoS of 100%



If you read better the interest rate of 100% is only for the first year the second year you only get 45%
Besides how many people have more than 10 million NET?
I looked it up for you and there are 3 adresses with more then 10 million coins of which the biggest is inactive for 5 months already.
The other 2 are adresses from exchanges and they don,t stake they can,t actually

My opinion is that someone is jealous and is a little bit sick that bitcoin doesn,t have such innovatieve things Grin


i am worry about the number of NETCOIN will increace too much and i am rather worry about the exchange, why they can't get POS? i can tell you they can get POS. they can do anything to make money, even open the wallet for POS coins.
i don''t like this change to POS. the number will be increaced too much, sorry for your hard work, dev team.

maybe we need something new to attract people. POS is out, we need some innovations to improve NETCOIN. does anybody have good ideas?

@vsmamm a coin's "life" is always one where you are trying to attract new people while making sure you don't sacrifice the security, stability, and foundation of the coin itself.  We don't think POS is not "out" persay...but rather this: what POS was attempting to do in theory was great (secure the network through wallet's competing to secure the network AND providing a reward), but it left open some major flaws and issues, namely: nothing in the reward dealt with securing the networking while holding the coins.

That's why we didn't "just" implement POS.  In fact, what was implemented was something never done before: A way to secure POS, ensure the network is safe, AND provide a fair incentive reward that is the most rewarding to date.

Why change to POS in the first place?
We liked the idea of substituting the 'sacrifice of electrical power and energy' with 'the sacrifice of accumulated coin age' to sign blocks and earn rewards.  For one thing, it's more eco-friendly.  For another, it provided a way to give back to NETCOIN users.

But the one argument against POS as a concept that really bothered us was this: 
- Nothing in that reward talks about securing the network while you hold the coins.  What does that mean?

So, in theory, one could:
- obtain a large number of coins
- Put them in a paper wallet
- Forget about Netcoin for 5 years
- Import the private key into my wallet
- Start staking
- Receive 5 years worth of POS reward

For what? For helping to securing the network for a few hours in all that time.  This, to us, seemed to be an oversight in the overall POS concept.  Why should anyone bother trying to compete and leave their wallet running if you get the 5 years reward anyway?

Thus, the need to make some fundamental changes to the POS system, and that's what we did with PIR + OWI:

NETCOIN being a POW + POS hybrid:
- Regardless of what happens with POS block staking, there is a parallel POW mining mechanism with NETCOIN that is also constantly competing with the POS mechanism to sign the current transactions.  Cool.  Added Security and safety.  That's always good.

NETCOIN adding PIR + OWI (Personal interest rate + Open Wallet Incentive)
Open Wallet Incentive (OWI) is a new algorithm designed by NETCOIN core team to both replace Proof-of-Work (PoW) and Proof-of-Stake-Velocity (PoSV) as the mechanism to verify transactions and create blocks and provide incentive to NETCOIN users to participate in staking.  OWI continues to reward users for their ownership and activity of NETCOIN.  Simply put, the more NETCOIN you have, and the more you keep in your wallet (and keep your wallet open and running), not only are you more likely to find a stake block and receive block rewards, but the more interest you earn based on the amount of coins in your wallet.  However, what sets OWI apart is the ongoing reward (or interest rate) that’s applied.  Rather than having a static reward that stops, ours continues to reward (that declines with time). 

HOW IT WORKS:
- Users should stake once each month to earn highest possible rewards
This incentivises running full nodes to increase POS security

 - The Coin Age gradually slows after 1 month with an aging half life of 90 days.

Personal Interest Rate (PIR) is a new algorithm designed by NETCOIN to replace the static Annual Percentage Rates (APR).  APR is the 'Annual' or yearly target interest rate.  Other coins set a static, fixed APR (much like a savings account).  However, a rate that increased for larger holders of the currency would encourage people to:

1) Want to obtain more NETCOIN (as they would be getting a higher “interest rate”) and
2) Promote smart consumerism (spending the currency could reduce one’s interest rate, thus providing a means for individuals to spend wisely).

Simply put: The more NET you get, the better the rewards.

HOW IT WORKS:
The number of NET you stake (or have in your open wallet) determines the Annual interest rate that is applied to the transaction for that reward.  When a Proof of Stake block is awarded, the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days.  Stake reward increases in line with the value of the coins staked on a sliding scale.
Users who keep their wallets open more often (or stake regularly) to secure the network earn the quoted APR, while users who keep their wallet closed for months at a time and do not help to secure the network with POS staking will earn less than the quoted APR.

REASON FOR PIR + OWI
Interest rate is a measure of risk and reward. In finance an Interest Rate is often called a 'Risk Rate'.  The large holders are exposed to greater risk with the rises and falls of the price of crypto currency.  Presently, this is much more than normal fiat currency.

Therefore, an individual with more NETCOIN will get a higher reward to reflect (and honor) the higher risk they are taking.  Furthermore, every time the interest rate rises a little bit with every extra NETCOIN obtained creates a desire to obtain NET. This is a good thing for keeping the market active and encouraging users to 'stick' with NETCOIN for the long haul, and to discourage the use of the coin as a “pump-and-dump” coin.  To prevent an uncontrollable increase in interest to further, we designed into the protocol from the start interest rates that change after 1 year and 2 years to close the gap between high and low holders.  This reflects that fact that by that time the risks will be lower and more balanced.

As for the number of NETCOIN increasing, what do you mean by this?

And For An exchange getting POS and trying to "control" the coin, What we've done above is one step to prevent this from happening.  We have another feature in the works that when released, will completely level the playing field for Staking, to prevent big whales and malicious individuals from trying to manipulate/steal coins.

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September 06, 2014, 12:59:28 AM
 #124

Is eCasino a scam ?

One of their slot machines can't win, the other can't lose and they are not processing withdrawal requests. WTF !



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September 06, 2014, 04:35:50 AM
 #125

Is eCasino a scam ?

One of their slot machines can't win, the other can't lose and they are not processing withdrawal requests. WTF !




Hippy Tech, You have to confirm your withdraw in your email. It says its still pending and waiting confirmation.


Thanks.


Edit: It also helps to say something first at the forum if you have any issues, questions, or concerns. You were just there 3 hrs ago and could of said something  as styson did.  

But to answer your question is it a scam? You have to know when to stop playing. Hold back a day or two then come back. If you stop winning, stop playing.  Thanks for playing Smiley

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September 06, 2014, 04:47:41 AM
 #126

So was it ever clarified if to get the variable PoS rates, all the coins need to merely be on the same address (but possibly in different blocks) or do they all have to be in one big block? Thank you Smiley
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September 06, 2014, 09:15:35 AM
 #127


I see now, CAPS has PoS 200% yearly and HBN has PoS 2% every 10 days.

Netcoin has more moderate and more appropriate PoS of 10%-100% at next 1st year. It depends on netcoin amounts in wallets.


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September 06, 2014, 09:24:19 AM
 #128

1. can i get POS coins if i encrypted my wallet?
2. can i have to open my wallet all days if i want to get POS coins?
3. can the exchange will get many POS coins?
4. what's the safest way get POS coins?

by the way, i like NETCOIN's official website very much. http://netcoinfoundation.org/ Wink it's wonderful, so i have changed my signature to support NETCOIN.
Code:
[url=http://netcoinfoundation.org/][color=blue][b]Netcoin[/b][/color][/url].

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September 06, 2014, 10:20:22 AM
 #129

the new wallet looks very cool. but it looks a little messy.
I have some wonderful pictures hope to let the new wallet looks more beatiful.





do you guys know about superNET? it's very hot right now.  maybe it has something we can learn. good ideas? new technology, innovations?

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September 06, 2014, 11:13:18 AM
 #130

if we can add 2FA or telephone message to improve the sicurity of NETCOIN. Grin

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September 06, 2014, 12:17:00 PM
 #131

Is eCasino a scam ?

One of their slot machines can't win, the other can't lose and they are not processing withdrawal requests. WTF !




Hippy Tech, You have to confirm your withdraw in your email. It says its still pending and waiting confirmation.


Thanks.


Edit: It also helps to say something first at the forum if you have any issues, questions, or concerns. You were just there 3 hrs ago and could of said something  as styson did.   

But to answer your question is it a scam? You have to know when to stop playing. Hold back a day or two then come back. If you stop winning, stop playing.  Thanks for playing Smiley

Fyi, I am not some noob gambler who is sore about losing a few bit pennies. Please check my betting logs and you'll see what I mean. If you didn't rig these games, someone might have.

I did not recieve any of the confirmation emails and my tickets and PMs have thus far been ignored.

I PM'd Admin about it the following day.
Quote from: @hippietech
hmm.. whats up with ecasino ?

One of their slots games is impossible to win and the other seems like its impossible to lose ! lol

I lost almost 42k NET.. then won most of it back on the other game .. and now my withdrawals are no where to be seen. Texas holdem also seemed like it was rigged to win.

http://img.techpowerup.org/140903/ecasino1.jpg

Not seen here is the final withdrawal of 8500 NET/ 850k points.

No response to my ticket. Plzz help..

HT xD

EDIT

The password reset emails are also not being sent.

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September 06, 2014, 01:40:52 PM
 #132

why there are few people work on improving the sicurity of Crypto Currency and the wallet?
can the dev team develop some features to improve the sicurity of NETCOIN? for example Multi Signature, 2FA, and so on.

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September 07, 2014, 04:23:47 AM
 #133

All of the withdrawals have arrived. Tyvm for clearing that up guys. Smiley

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September 08, 2014, 03:28:36 PM
 #134

wow. it seems nobody here. where are you guys? do you have some new features and innovations? are you coding day and night?

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September 08, 2014, 03:51:09 PM
 #135

Netcoin is looking good and stable. great work.

"It would be funny if people weren't twice as retarded as you ass clowns, you are literately stealing from the mentally disabled at this point. Feel proud. "
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September 09, 2014, 11:48:16 AM
 #136

Netcoin is looking good and stable. great work.

Hey Tokyo,

Thanks for the support!  We're working really hard to continue to grow with everyone on NETCOIN.  We have just implemented a bunch of new protocols for the coin, that gives back tremendously to users (and at the same time makes the coin even safer from traditional POS and even POSv threats).

wow. it seems nobody here. where are you guys? do you have some new features and innovations? are you coding day and night?

Hey Dandy,

Yup Smiley  We are working pretty much day and night on some new developments...so our apologies on being somewhat absent on here.  Till we get some more people on board who would want to spearhead PR/media, we have to divide our time as best we can.  I'm actually going to be transitioning a bit more into social relations for NETCOIN, so you should see me (SnappySnap) popping in more on threads, etc.  For extremely technical questions though, I'll be passing along to our DEV's to make sure any issues or problems are taken care of by the best!

All of the withdrawals have arrived. Tyvm for clearing that up guys. Smiley

Hey HippeTech!

Glad we got it all sorted out.  Thanks for giving us the heads up on some of the issues you were experiencing.  We'll take a look through to see if there are issues on our end and if we need to make changes, we'll be sure to do so.  We wanted to the casino, much like the rest of NETCOIN, to be for people, and a way to further "use" crypto.  We firmly believe that for crypto to continue to grow, transparency, security, and well, a principal of working together must be established.  So, our apologies if you felt that the casino was or had been set up in some way to try and take advantage of you. 

if we can add 2FA or telephone message to improve the sicurity of NETCOIN. Grin

Hey DandyBTC!

Great suggestions, and...absolutely!  One of our development projects (see here:http://development.netcoinfoundation.org/) is actually for a wallet re-skin.  Do you have any interest in being part of this?  As we are a community all working together on this coin, we're always open to suggestions, input, and help!

Alright everyone...Make sure you go take a look at the new ANN thread header!  We have more to come!

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September 09, 2014, 03:19:09 PM
 #137

@vsmamm

Firstly allow me to tell you what happend recently when bter forgot to turn off staking... A team member approached me to say that he was getting these weird deposits into his Netcoin account that he didn't make. 0.o

I checked my own and sure enough I too had these strange amounts...

2014-09-08 15:51:42    -104962.12045512 NET  Success
2014-09-08 15:51:31    -104590.57473373 NET  Success
2014-09-05 21:17:20    104962.12045512 NET     Success
2014-09-01 12:49:14    104590.57473373 NET     Success
2014-08-28 17:16:01    104242.23120474 NET     Success

You see the very bottom one, that is the only deposit I made to the bter account, the next 2 were additional from seemingly nowhere. Do you notice the slight increase each time? Well that is the stake but they also gave the principal too each time XD

Then I alerted bter to this fact and you see the next 2 they have deducted this amount and since deactivated staking, the point is staking on an exchange or in a pool creates mayhem, I know because I run a pool and I have staking disabled too. staking=0 is what you put in the conf to do this.

Now am I saying exchanges do not stake at all? No, I'm sure they do to some degree, but we would see massive increase in the total coins and so far this has not been seen. But ultimately if people want to give away their stake to an exchange what can anyone do about that? Personally when staking was activated 99% of my coins came off the exchange immediately, I now only have the 100k you see on bter there for something to play with.

But I do understand your concerns about there being more coins but really, look at DOGE, XRP, REDD, NXT all have many times more coins than we and they seem to do just fine. So I hope this helps Smiley

Oh and as for POS being dead, I'm not so sure and this isn't just a simple POS coin, there is much more to it than that and yes we have plenty of ideas how to improve upon what we have done so far and to make even more innovative steps. Of course I can't say too much about them now. But in time you will see Wink

@HippieTech

Sorry you had some problems there, no the casino is not a scam XD... In fact it is run by me! XD

I have been having some family troubles of late and actually going through a split with my ex partner and 3 kids, so as you can imagine it is a bit of a tough time right now. Also the internet was in her name and for some reason talktalk's "homesafe" was activated and prevented me from accessing the admin panel to process withdrawals.

I was alerted to your problem and sorted it as fast as I could. Also it seems that emails were not sent to you or maybe you used a different email? I'm not sure, but they were not confirmed so I didn't process right away just to be sure it was you making the withdrawals to keep your coins safe. That's all bud, but again sorry that you had the problems.

@CrazyLoaf

To get the best PIR you need to have them in one address and 1 block.

@coinerer

Yeah it's really not such a crazy interest for sure and we feel we got in pretty spot on, we didn't want to do something too weak like 3% a year etc, and nothing too wild. So we settled in the middle.

@dandybtc

Hi Dandy! Thank  you very much, so glad that you like what we are doing so far, sorry I have not been around all too much but read hippietechs reply to find out why XD

But it's okay I am still here and will remain, we were working on the ANN thread also over the past week or so and I have the various other duties to do but we will endeavour to get these questions answered faster in the future.

1. Yes you can encrypt your wallet but you need to unlock it for staking only. You will still be asked for your password when you attempt to send any coins so don't worry, your coins will be safe. Smiley

2. We have OWI (Open Wallet Incentive) which means that you have to stake once per month at least to get the full reward. So no you don't HAVE to have it open all the time, but atleast make sure you stake once per month. Having your wallet open however does help to secure the Network and so therefore it benefits you.

3. Please see the reply to vsmamm for this answer

4. I believe this is answered in number 1 but if you meant something else please let me know.

Again, thanks so much for your support and kind words Smiley

And as for the wallet, sure it is a work in progress and to be honest we have some big changes up ahead for it, but like anything else it does take time. I have briefly heard of superNET XD I don't have time to look at it to be honest but rest assured, we lead the way, we don't follow Wink

@tokyoghetto

Thanks bud glad you're happy so far, I too think it has been going very well, we're very pleased with the way things are going. But still as always improvements need to be made and we are working as hard and as fast as we can to make them. Some progress has been made on the android wallet front I hear from who, so that is awesome news. Smiley




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September 09, 2014, 03:22:35 PM
 #138

Oh BTW we would welcome your feedback on the new ANN thread, is there something you like and something you don't like, just pop in and let us know, we will get back to you as soon as we can.

Thanks again guys, please rest assured that we are working very hard behind the scenes to keep on making improvements. Smiley

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September 10, 2014, 09:54:32 AM
 #139

So.... What you guys think of the recent price rise? It is still early days but volume is going up all the time and now the price is beginning to follow! Who would like to eat some humble pie? XD

The fear was it would make so many coins and they would be dumped and the price would go even lower... The opposite seems to be happening. In fact I would say Netcoin is rediculously undervalued! Wink

But still, things are looking really good! Still plenty of work to do but we're making our way through it.

Hope everyone has a great day! Smiley

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September 10, 2014, 10:16:23 AM
 #140

Hey just discovered the new OP ....

Awesome work !!!!
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