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Author Topic: (ANN) Netcoin has gone POS! With PIR & OWI  (Read 97386 times)
yogibaer
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September 16, 2014, 08:01:49 AM
 #161


EDIT: Okay god damn it... cryptsy now at 160! Must stop watching! Moving too fast, need to sleep! lmao

Nice to see a positive price reaction here.
 Let's hope it's not just a P&D rise ....

Well I dunno yogi... I mean its nice to see our hard work pay off in a price rise but really price is not the be all and end all... XD But I mean it's been steadily rising since releasesing pos etc, I think that says a lot. Wink

Now position 81 on coinmarketcap. Looking really good. Smiley

Back to sleep for me lmao XD

hey Smiley I didn't want to wake you up !!! *LOL*
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September 16, 2014, 09:10:46 AM
 #162

Lol nah I never sleep well, wake up every 2-4 hours, have done for years... Luckily though I can get back to sleep east enough lol.

Btw did you have a go on drums.netcoinfoundation.org? XD

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September 16, 2014, 09:21:38 AM
 #163

Lol nah I never sleep well, wake up every 2-4 hours, have done for years... Luckily though I can get back to sleep east enough lol.

Btw did you have a go on drums.netcoinfoundation.org? XD

not yet! what is it? going to have a look now .....
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September 16, 2014, 09:35:53 AM
 #164

Lol nah I never sleep well, wake up every 2-4 hours, have done for years... Luckily though I can get back to sleep east enough lol.

Btw did you have a go on drums.netcoinfoundation.org? XD

not yet! what is it? going to have a look now .....

LOL... oh just a bit of fun I was having playing with some html5 and javascript lol... But there will be some much better stuff coming down the pipeline haha...

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September 16, 2014, 09:42:18 AM
 #165

Lol nah I never sleep well, wake up every 2-4 hours, have done for years... Luckily though I can get back to sleep east enough lol.

Btw did you have a go on drums.netcoinfoundation.org? XD

not yet! what is it? going to have a look now .....

LOL... oh just a bit of fun I was having playing with some html5 and javascript lol... But there will be some much better stuff coming down the pipeline haha...

Funny thing!!! http://drums.netcoinfoundation.org/

LOL Smiley

excited about the upcoming stuff for netcoin Smiley
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September 16, 2014, 10:03:41 AM
 #166

haha thanks, glad you like it XD

I'm very excited working with the tools too, so much you can do with it, I was making a little something last night which was super cool, not uploaded it just yet... Again it's just a small little thing, I'm just playing around with it at the moment and doing a few proof of concepts etc... But there is so much you can do, so much potential...

I'll obviously post here and on the forum when I have more to show. Smiley

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September 16, 2014, 11:34:33 AM
 #167

Great news and Great work everyone.

NET is continuing to rise and gain tractions!!!

Biggest Gain in the last 24hrs (40%!)

81 on Coinmarketcap (and that's without BTC/NET on Bter being included).

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September 16, 2014, 02:58:48 PM
 #168

Depositing of netcoin in your wallet you get a percentage of profit between 80 and 100%. The profit is daily?

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September 16, 2014, 03:21:09 PM
 #169

Depositing of netcoin in your wallet you get a percentage of profit between 80 and 100%. The profit is daily?

Hey Chris,

To answer: If you have a good amount of netcoin, absolutely, 80% or 100% interest/earning is there! 

As for "daily" interest/profit, kinda: When a Proof of Stake block is awarded, the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days

To explain in more detail though about how Personal Interest Rate + Open Wallet Incentive work (and thus, to answer your "daily interest rate/profit question")

a) Now POW + POS Hybrid
A big decision on the POS implementation was to help continue the success of NETCOIN, allow for fair usage, accessibility, and the ability to reward coin adopters and users.  That being said, we did not want to implement the traditional POS (as recent security breaches and problems with malicious users not contributing to the network highlighted this fact).  Thus, we made some exciting and revolutionary changes to the POS protocol that are now implemented in Netcoin, making it by far one of the safest POS coin available as it is less susceptible to very large volumes controlling the network.

Why the changes to POS?
We liked the idea of substituting the 'sacrifice of electrical power and energy' with 'the sacrifice of accumulated coin age' to sign blocks and earn rewards.  For one thing, it's more eco-friendly.  For another, it provided a way to give back to NETCOIN users.

But the one argument against POS as a concept that really bothered us was this: 
POS will help secure the network providing lots of wallets compete to secure the network.
The usual POS reward is reward_Per_Coin_Per_Day * number_of_coins_Staked * number_of_days_held
Nothing in that reward talks about securing the network while you hold the coins.

So, in theory, one could:
-obtain a large number of coins
-Put them in a paper wallet
-Forget about Netcoin for 5 years
-Import the private key into my wallet
-Start staking
-Receive 5 years worth of POS reward


For what? For helping to securing the network for a few hours in all that time.  This, to us, seemed to be an oversight in the overall POS concept.  Why should anyone bother trying to compete and leave their wallet running if you get the 5 years reward anyway?

Thus, the need to make some fundamental changes to the POS system.

b) Personal Interest Rate (PIR) + Open Wallet Incentive (OWI) Overview
One of the big decision on the POS implementation is what interest rate to choose for staking rewards.  As we discussed what to use, we realized that the notion of only providing a flat, fixed interest rate that stopped year after year was archaic.  Not only did we want to provide an interest rate that was fair to all users and would benefit those who actively utilized NETCOIN, but we wanted to provide a long lasting and sliding scale interest rate that TRULY rewarded individuals based on the number of coins in their possession.  With a sliding scale then, it is always better to obtain more NET.

We also wanted to encourage NETCOIN users to be active, participating in the coin and community.  To do this, and to continue the stability and security of NETCOIN, we wanted to give users a reason to stake (or to either keep their wallets open, or open them regularly). 
 
b1) Reasons for PIR + OWI
Interest rate is a measure of risk and reward. In finance an Interest Rate is often called a 'Risk Rate'.  The large holders are exposed to greater risk with the rises and falls of the price of crypto currency.  Presently, this is much more than normal fiat currency.

Therefore, an individual with more NETCOIN will get a higher reward to reflect (and honor) the higher risk they are taking.  Furthermore, every time the interest rate rises a little bit with every extra NETCOIN obtained creates a desire to obtain NET. This is a good thing for keeping the market active and encouraging users to 'stick' with NETCOIN for the long haul, and to discourage the use of the coin as a “pump-and-dump” coin.  To prevent an uncontrollable increase in interest to further, we designed into the protocol from the start interest rates that change after 1 year and 2 years to close the gap between high and low holders.  This reflects that fact that by that time the risks will be lower and more balanced.

What we developed is this:

b2) Open Wallet Incentive (OWI)

Open Wallet Incentive (OWI) is a new algorithm designed by NETCOIN core team to both replace Proof-of-Work (PoW) and Proof-of-Stake-Velocity (PoSV) as the mechanism to verify transactions and create blocks and provide incentive to NETCOIN users to participate in staking.  OWI continues to reward users for their ownership and activity of NETCOIN.  Simply put, the more NETCOIN you have, and the more you keep in your wallet (and keep your wallet open and running), not only are you more likely to find a stake block and receive block rewards, but the more interest you earn based on the amount of coins in your wallet.  However, what sets OWI apart is the ongoing reward (or interest rate) that’s applied.  Rather than having a static reward that stops, ours continues to reward (that declines with time). 

How it works:
- Users should stake once each month to earn highest possible rewards
This incentivises running full nodes to increase POS security

 - The Coin Age gradually slows after 1 month with an aging half life of 90 days.


b3) Personal Interest Rate (PIR)

Personal Interest Rate (PIR) is a new algorithm designed by NETCOIN to replace the static Annual Percentage Rates (APR).  APR is the 'Annual' or yearly target interest rate.  Other coins set a static, fixed APR (much like a savings account).  However, a rate that increased for larger holders of the currency would encourage people to:

1) Want to obtain more NETCOIN (as they would be getting a higher “interest rate”) and
2) Promote smart consumerism (spending the currency could reduce one’s interest rate, thus providing a means for individuals to spend wisely).

Simply put: The more NET you get, the better the rewards.

How it works:
The number of NET you stake (or have in your open wallet) determines the Annual interest rate that is applied to the transaction for that reward.  When a Proof of Stake block is awarded, the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days.  Stake reward increases in line with the value of the coins staked on a sliding scale using the following threshold:

Netcoin Annual Interest Rates 
It is a sliding scale between the values displayed below

NET           Y1   Y2   Y3
0           10   20   20
1000           15   25   22
10000   20   30   24
100000   30   35   26
1000000   80   40   28
10000000   100   45   30


Year 1: Started August 2014
Year 2: Will start at approximately August 2015
Year 3: Will Start at approximately August 2016

These estimates depend on the speed of the blocks, which should average ~1 per minute.

Users who keep their wallets open more often (or stake regularly) to secure the network earn the quoted APR, while users who keep their wallet closed for months at a time and do not help to secure the network with POS staking will earn less than the quoted APR.


Hope that helps!  A lot of this information was from one of our foundation devs (WHO) who did some great write ups on the netcoin forums!
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September 16, 2014, 03:31:01 PM
 #170

Depositing of netcoin in your wallet you get a percentage of profit between 80 and 100%. The profit is daily?

Hey Chris,

To answer: If you have a good amount of netcoin, absolutely, 80% or 100% interest/earning is there! 

As for "daily" interest/profit, kinda: When a Proof of Stake block is awarded, the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days

To explain in more detail though about how Personal Interest Rate + Open Wallet Incentive work (and thus, to answer your "daily interest rate/profit question")

a) Now POW + POS Hybrid
A big decision on the POS implementation was to help continue the success of NETCOIN, allow for fair usage, accessibility, and the ability to reward coin adopters and users.  That being said, we did not want to implement the traditional POS (as recent security breaches and problems with malicious users not contributing to the network highlighted this fact).  Thus, we made some exciting and revolutionary changes to the POS protocol that are now implemented in Netcoin, making it by far one of the safest POS coin available as it is less susceptible to very large volumes controlling the network.

Why the changes to POS?
We liked the idea of substituting the 'sacrifice of electrical power and energy' with 'the sacrifice of accumulated coin age' to sign blocks and earn rewards.  For one thing, it's more eco-friendly.  For another, it provided a way to give back to NETCOIN users.

But the one argument against POS as a concept that really bothered us was this: 
POS will help secure the network providing lots of wallets compete to secure the network.
The usual POS reward is reward_Per_Coin_Per_Day * number_of_coins_Staked * number_of_days_held
Nothing in that reward talks about securing the network while you hold the coins.

So, in theory, one could:
-obtain a large number of coins
-Put them in a paper wallet
-Forget about Netcoin for 5 years
-Import the private key into my wallet
-Start staking
-Receive 5 years worth of POS reward


For what? For helping to securing the network for a few hours in all that time.  This, to us, seemed to be an oversight in the overall POS concept.  Why should anyone bother trying to compete and leave their wallet running if you get the 5 years reward anyway?

Thus, the need to make some fundamental changes to the POS system.

b) Personal Interest Rate (PIR) + Open Wallet Incentive (OWI) Overview
One of the big decision on the POS implementation is what interest rate to choose for staking rewards.  As we discussed what to use, we realized that the notion of only providing a flat, fixed interest rate that stopped year after year was archaic.  Not only did we want to provide an interest rate that was fair to all users and would benefit those who actively utilized NETCOIN, but we wanted to provide a long lasting and sliding scale interest rate that TRULY rewarded individuals based on the number of coins in their possession.  With a sliding scale then, it is always better to obtain more NET.

We also wanted to encourage NETCOIN users to be active, participating in the coin and community.  To do this, and to continue the stability and security of NETCOIN, we wanted to give users a reason to stake (or to either keep their wallets open, or open them regularly). 
 
b1) Reasons for PIR + OWI
Interest rate is a measure of risk and reward. In finance an Interest Rate is often called a 'Risk Rate'.  The large holders are exposed to greater risk with the rises and falls of the price of crypto currency.  Presently, this is much more than normal fiat currency.

Therefore, an individual with more NETCOIN will get a higher reward to reflect (and honor) the higher risk they are taking.  Furthermore, every time the interest rate rises a little bit with every extra NETCOIN obtained creates a desire to obtain NET. This is a good thing for keeping the market active and encouraging users to 'stick' with NETCOIN for the long haul, and to discourage the use of the coin as a “pump-and-dump” coin.  To prevent an uncontrollable increase in interest to further, we designed into the protocol from the start interest rates that change after 1 year and 2 years to close the gap between high and low holders.  This reflects that fact that by that time the risks will be lower and more balanced.

What we developed is this:

b2) Open Wallet Incentive (OWI)

Open Wallet Incentive (OWI) is a new algorithm designed by NETCOIN core team to both replace Proof-of-Work (PoW) and Proof-of-Stake-Velocity (PoSV) as the mechanism to verify transactions and create blocks and provide incentive to NETCOIN users to participate in staking.  OWI continues to reward users for their ownership and activity of NETCOIN.  Simply put, the more NETCOIN you have, and the more you keep in your wallet (and keep your wallet open and running), not only are you more likely to find a stake block and receive block rewards, but the more interest you earn based on the amount of coins in your wallet.  However, what sets OWI apart is the ongoing reward (or interest rate) that’s applied.  Rather than having a static reward that stops, ours continues to reward (that declines with time). 

How it works:
- Users should stake once each month to earn highest possible rewards
This incentivises running full nodes to increase POS security

 - The Coin Age gradually slows after 1 month with an aging half life of 90 days.


b3) Personal Interest Rate (PIR)

Personal Interest Rate (PIR) is a new algorithm designed by NETCOIN to replace the static Annual Percentage Rates (APR).  APR is the 'Annual' or yearly target interest rate.  Other coins set a static, fixed APR (much like a savings account).  However, a rate that increased for larger holders of the currency would encourage people to:

1) Want to obtain more NETCOIN (as they would be getting a higher “interest rate”) and
2) Promote smart consumerism (spending the currency could reduce one’s interest rate, thus providing a means for individuals to spend wisely).

Simply put: The more NET you get, the better the rewards.

How it works:
The number of NET you stake (or have in your open wallet) determines the Annual interest rate that is applied to the transaction for that reward.  When a Proof of Stake block is awarded, the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days.  Stake reward increases in line with the value of the coins staked on a sliding scale using the following threshold:

Netcoin Annual Interest Rates 
It is a sliding scale between the values displayed below

NET           Y1   Y2   Y3
0           10   20   20
1000           15   25   22
10000   20   30   24
100000   30   35   26
1000000   80   40   28
10000000   100   45   30


Year 1: Started August 2014
Year 2: Will start at approximately August 2015
Year 3: Will Start at approximately August 2016

These estimates depend on the speed of the blocks, which should average ~1 per minute.

Users who keep their wallets open more often (or stake regularly) to secure the network earn the quoted APR, while users who keep their wallet closed for months at a time and do not help to secure the network with POS staking will earn less than the quoted APR.


Hope that helps!  A lot of this information was from one of our foundation devs (WHO) who did some great write ups on the netcoin forums!

thanks!

So with 1000/2000 coin what is the daily profit? Wink

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September 16, 2014, 03:37:44 PM
 #171

Depositing of netcoin in your wallet you get a percentage of profit between 80 and 100%. The profit is daily?

Quote

So with 1000/2000 coin what is the daily profit? Wink




Well, Year one you are looking at 15-20% APR (again, if you keep your wallet open or at least open it regularly to stake).  

But, if you want to try and reduce it to a "daily" rate, 15%/365 ~ 0.04%.  Again though, this won't be a - hard-fast-every-day- I see .04% increase in NET.  Instead, again, when a proof of stake is rewarded...  the annual interest rate is converted to a daily rate, and applied based on the age of the staked coins in days.
_____________________________

At today's value you can pick up:

1 million netcoin ~ $650usd.

If you figure that at that investment, you could almost double your NET amount in one year, and with the way NETCOIN is growing.....that's not a bad ROI  Smiley

Actually, any investment into NET will have a good ROI.  It just depends on how much one wants to get involved!

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September 16, 2014, 03:47:15 PM
 #172

Cryptsy has been holding my NET hostage for over a week now. Anyone able to get withdrawals done over at cryptsy?

WOW, WTF? Man... Those guys are beyond unreal, really sorry to hear that bro, tis why I moved over to bter but will be giving crpytex a go too I think, I'm so done with cryptsy, it's getting beyond a joke!

But yeah I didn't even realise they are having even more withdrawal problems... All I can say is keep sending them support tickets till you get your coins back bro! Just keep hounding them, a week is just sick dude! Sad

Is your deposit showing as pending or something?

EDIT: I would also demand your lost stake too! I mean a day, okay, 2 maybe, but over a week? That ain't right!

it keeps showing as pending. its for over 1 million NET. I did a test withdrawal before for 10 netcoin, that went through. Even today I did another test withdrawal for 15 NET and it went through.

i keep sending them tickets. They tell me that it will bumped up to their tech support. Then they send me a email saying that the problem has been resolved.

But the coins are still pending and not in my wallet. Stuck in limbo. 1 million + NET. Coins that I can be staking RIGHT NOW.

Cryptsy is going down the shitter fast that explosive diarrhea.
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September 16, 2014, 03:52:00 PM
 #173

Cryptsy has been holding my NET hostage for over a week now. Anyone able to get withdrawals done over at cryptsy?

WOW, WTF? Man... Those guys are beyond unreal, really sorry to hear that bro, tis why I moved over to bter but will be giving crpytex a go too I think, I'm so done with cryptsy, it's getting beyond a joke!

But yeah I didn't even realise they are having even more withdrawal problems... All I can say is keep sending them support tickets till you get your coins back bro! Just keep hounding them, a week is just sick dude! Sad

Is your deposit showing as pending or something?

EDIT: I would also demand your lost stake too! I mean a day, okay, 2 maybe, but over a week? That ain't right!

it keeps showing as pending. its for over 1 million NET. I did a test withdrawal before for 10 netcoin, that went through. Even today I did another test withdrawal for 15 NET and it went through.

i keep sending them tickets. They tell me that it will bumped up to their tech support. Then they send me a email saying that the problem has been resolved.

But the coins are still pending and not in my wallet. Stuck in limbo. 1 million + NET. Coins that I can be staking RIGHT NOW.

Cryptsy is going down the shitter fast that explosive diarrhea.

Hey man, yeah, I was able to withdraw up to 100k.  Anything above that, and it split my withdraw in half!

We actually have a member on our forums point out this:

"Hi,
I believe that any coins that are able to stake, cryptsy stakes.  I was having a major problem with netcoin withdrawl from there and found out that they were staking users coins.  Thats why peoples coins would get stuck on pending during withdrawls.  Especially if there were large withdrawls, it was taking weeks or longer if even you could get them out.  This is what it says in the terms section of cryptsy. 

28. Staking Interest

Some Cryptsy wallets may provide staking interest rewards. Any staking rewards, conversions, snapshots, or likewise will become the property of Cryptsy.

I know after many people in the Btcd community wrote cryptsy yesterday and threatened them with a mass exodus, amazingly within half a day my coins were sent.  I dunno if the same thing is going on with net but if so, I surely am going to withdraw the rest of my netcoins out of there now asap.

Just a heads up!

Read more: http://forum.netcoinfoundation.org/thread/730/major-problems-cryptsy-fan?page=1#ixzz3DUiJ03bY
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September 16, 2014, 04:02:08 PM
 #174

BTW tokyoghetto...

Really sorry about this continued problem with Cryptsy.  The Netcoin foundation has actually been looking at what to do with that exchange, as netcoin members continue to be hurt, ignored, and or left with a lack of care and respect from the exchange (http://forum.netcoinfoundation.org/thread/728/cryptsy-removal-poll?page=1&scrollTo=10629.

It's really a shame.  on one hand, it's good to have an exchange...as it allows the coin grow and be utilized.  On the other though, and most importantly, if an exchange is repeatedly leaving netcoin users high and dry, this is unacceptable.

I would try to do withdraws at like 80-100k at a time and see what happens.
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September 16, 2014, 05:17:59 PM
 #175

@SnappySnap

He can't bud as the coins are locked away or removed from his account as they are due to be sent.

@tokyoghetto

Man... What on earth is that all about? If I were you I would take screenshots of the pending notification on your account and send that to them, give them a deadline to resolve the matter or tell them that you're going to report them to the financial body in america! I mean can you imagine these jokers have a licence to take fiat deposits!

You could also make a thread on this forum to let other users know, please make sure you supply all your supporting evidence, all the communications and also take screenshots of the still pending deposit. Hopefully that will give them a boot up the backside. And maybe there are others who could join you in processing a class action lawsuit.

I will email them for you and try to get things pushed along, I'm really not sure they're going to listen to me, is your username on cryptsy the same as here?

This is just rediculous though! Seems they don't want to let go of those NET huh!

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September 16, 2014, 05:48:27 PM
 #176

@tokypghetto

So I have had a word with one of the cryptsy guys and he informs me that the problem is they haven't been filling up the hot wallet enough (the wallet you withdraw from). He says he has let BigVern know and they will have this sorted asap.

So fingers crossed you'll get a resolution soon.

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September 16, 2014, 05:54:37 PM
 #177

Hello,

I am extreme sorry for the delay you're experiencing this morning.  Our hot wallet needed filled before your NET could be sent. I have messaged the team and asked them to fill the hot wallet.
Your withdrawal will process as soon as the wallet is filled (will be done as soon as team sees my message).  Please send me your tradekey and I will send you a couple Cryptsy points as a small token on apology.

Thank you again for your patience in the matter,

Horus
Admin - Cryptsy.com
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September 16, 2014, 06:04:01 PM
 #178

Hello,

I am extreme sorry for the delay you're experiencing this morning.  Our hot wallet needed filled before your NET could be sent. I have messaged the team and asked them to fill the hot wallet.
Your withdrawal will process as soon as the wallet is filled (will be done as soon as team sees my message).  Please send me your tradekey and I will send you a couple Cryptsy points as a small token on apology.

Thank you again for your patience in the matter,

Horus
Admin - Cryptsy.com

Hey Horus,

Great!  It's good to see this kind of response from Cryptsy, and I hope this resolves a lot of the issues experienced with cryptsy when trying to do transactions with netcoin.

All the best!
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September 16, 2014, 06:07:56 PM
 #179

Actually, I see you posted  on the 13th about the issue persisting for over a week. Looking at withdrawal of approx. 1 million NET, staking you would have received about 30 000 NET give or take a few over 2 weeks. Current rate this is about .039 BTC. I am going to compensate your account this amount. Please reply when you see them in account, so I know you got them.

Thank you again for your patience and understanding in the matter.

Horus
Admin- Cryptsy.com
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September 17, 2014, 12:50:25 PM
 #180

@tokyoghetto

Any luck there yet bud? Let us know how you got on anyway mate, did you get the compensation for your lost stake too btw?

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