[Investment fund] Gamma Bitcoin Fund [Closed]

[labestiol]

First i would say that i really don't think you're a ponzi. You are most likely an investment fund. So what i want to say is not at all a way to accuse you of running a ponzi.
I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to, nor do I have any interest to spread fud.
But this sentence is a bit worrying to me :

Wouldn't it be better to allow for new investors again instead of shutting down withdrawals?

New investors are currently open due to the many withdraws and yes that would be the most optimal way to do it, but unfortunately the amount of new investors are lower then the amount of old investors leaving.
//DeaDTerra

This mechanism (being able to pay for withdraws with money from fresh investors) IS what a ponzi is all about. Lots of ponzi schemes are investment schemes turned bad.
I understand that your fund is being affected by the recent BTCUSD move, it's normal. Most of glbse assets (for example mining bonds) are shorts BTC, long the assets of the issuer.
So my question would be what will you do if the market keep on going against you ? Will you keep on waiting ?  

To me you should ALWAYS allow withdraws, but you should find a mechanism were people who withdraw take some part of the loss.
Hope everything will turn out ok for your fund and your investors.

[1714851759]

1714851759

[1714851759]

1714851759

[DeaDTerra]

First i would say that i really don't think you're a ponzi. You are most likely an investment fund. So what i want to say is not at all a way to accuse you of running a ponzi.
I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to, nor do I have any interest to spread fud.
But this sentence is a bit worrying to me :

Wouldn't it be better to allow for new investors again instead of shutting down withdrawals?

New investors are currently open due to the many withdraws and yes that would be the most optimal way to do it, but unfortunately the amount of new investors are lower then the amount of old investors leaving.
//DeaDTerra

This mechanism (being able to pay for withdraws with money from fresh investors) IS what a ponzi is all about. Lots of ponzi schemes are investment schemes turned bad.
I understand that your fund is being affected by the recent BTCUSD move, it's normal. Most of glbse assets (for example mining bonds) are shorts BTC, long the assets of the issuer.
So my question would be what will you do if the market keep on going against you ? Will you keep on waiting ?  

To me you should ALWAYS allow withdraws, but you should find a mechanism were people who withdraw take some part of the loss.
Hope everything will turn out ok for your fund and your investors.

Okay let me explain a bit better
First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

[LoweryCBS]

I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to...

Then, as an investor, I'd like to disclose that I didn't ask for your input, nor do I plan to. Get lost.

DeaDTerra, don't feed the trolls.

[DeaDTerra]

I also would like to disclose that i'm not an investor, nor do I plan to...

Then, as an investor, I'd like to disclose that I didn't ask for your input, nor do I plan to. Get lost.

DeaDTerra, don't feed the trolls.

It's fine, I like people questioning my logical and thought as long as they don't judge. To discuss and talk about is fine to judge and accuse now that's when it turns into a ponzi witch hunt.
//DeaDTerra

[DeaDTerra]

Hello guys
This week the profit landed at -0.413 which I think is still pretty good taking into consideration that the price has increased by 12% since the start of the week.
We have done some nice deals this week, liquidation trades with Usagi, purchase of GIPPT shares and a bulk order from ASICMINER, which hopefully will result in some nice profit as time goes on.
Full report will be given out tomorrow.

I am seen mqrius or BTCurious as he's know by on the forums, tomorrow. As he's on holiday in Sweden and is taking a trip up to Stockholm
If anyone else that lives close to Stockholm wants to arrange a meeting with me please do, it's always fun to put faces on the names on the forums.
//DeaDTerra

[labestiol]

Okay let me explain a bit better
First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

[DeaDTerra]

Okay let me explain a bit better
First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

You are hinting on another problem, please speak you mind.
//DeaDTerra

[Bitcoin Oz]

Okay let me explain a bit better
First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

I wonder why you are asking questions when you dont have a dog in the hunt.

[labestiol]

Okay let me explain a bit better
First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

You are hinting on another problem, please speak you mind.
//DeaDTerra

Basically being bullish on BTC makes me bearish on most glbse assets. Was just wondering how much of a loss can you accept.
Anyway, bitcoin.me is right, i don't have any reason to keep on bothering you, so i won't.

[DeaDTerra]

Okay let me explain a bit better
First of all quoting one sentence doesn't really explain the whole situation.
The reason why I am shutting down withdraws are not because I can't pay it out with the depositors money, but because I can't liquidate fast enough. Usually I keep a 500-1000 BTC in liquid btc in the trading bots and on the different exchanges. I use this buffer to buy shares and to pay withdraws. But when people withdraw faster then I can liquidate asset to refill this buffer then we get problems. This causes problems as it makes me incapable of manual trading and margin/flip trading. Which is one of our edges against only long holding funds. Also this prohibits us from bulk orders and such which is our edge against individual small investors.

Hence I decided to freeze the withdraws, long enough for me to liquidate enough on GLBSE to cover most of the withdraws and leave us with a big enough buffer. The root of the problem is the bad liquidity on GLBSE and our way to high exposure to it.
I hope that kind of answers your question?
//DeaDTerra

Be sure i wasn't trolling, only asking you about your strategy if things turns bad. Of course liquidity can be a problem on GLBSE, just not sure it's the only problem.
Wish you and your investors the best

You are hinting on another problem, please speak you mind.
//DeaDTerra

Basically being bullish on BTC makes me bearish on most glbse assets. Was just wondering how much of a loss can you accept.
Anyway, bitcoin.me is right, i don't have any reason to keep on bothering you, so i won't.

Indeed our heavy investment on GLBSE makes the fund bearish, this is something I have mentioned several times and am aware of. I am currently working on liquidating and reducing out GLBSE exposure as well as hedge against the price increase
If you want to ask questions please do. I have nothing against it.
//DeaDTerra

[DeaDTerra]

hello!
a little update
I meet BTCurious or Mqrius in Stockholm today we had a lot of fun chilling and hanging out. So I am sure he can now confirm my real ID, hopefully this will lead to a better trust with the investors. I am also open to meet any investor that wants to meet me, if you have your way around in Stockholm then sure

On another note, I have gotten a lot of withdraw request, I currently have about 7 of them for a total of over 1000 Bitcoins. I am starting to get a bit annoyed of the nagging that's going on. I know it's frustrating having your funds locked down, but I am doing my best to liquidate as much as possible. I will keep the amount I need for normal business for the fund and enough to not disturb the investments of the fund. Any excess will be sent out each weekend, This will keep going until all the withdraws have been sent out and I am more comfortable with the liquidity of the fund.
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

//DeaDTerra

[LoweryCBS]

...
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

That's the correct action to protect your investors.

If someone wishes to withdraw funds, they must either (1) wait on liquid BTC to come available, or (2) bear the the losses incurred by liquidating assets to cover their withdrawal.

To do anything else would be unfair to your loyal investors.

You aren't running a bank; you haven't offered demand-deposit accounts. This is an investment fund.

[unclescrooge]

+1

Take the time you need to hedge your investments

[OneEyed]

...
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

That's the correct action to protect your investors.

If someone wishes to withdraw funds, they must either (1) wait on liquid BTC to come available, or (2) bear the the losses incurred by liquidating assets to cover their withdrawal.

To do anything else would be unfair to your loyal investors.

You aren't running a bank; you haven't offered demand-deposit accounts. This is an investment fund.

As someone who hasn't requested a withdraw (even though I have had negative returns since I invested so far), I tend to agree with that.

However, the second post of this thread is misleading, as you write (and haven't modified it) that withdrawals are processed at the end of each week. Maybe you should make things clearer there too, even if I understand that people can get frustrated or angry when the rules are altered by the fund manager without prior warning.

[DeaDTerra]

...
Really sorry about this, but it is the way things must go to keep the fund from getting even worse performance due to low amounts of liquid btc.

That's the correct action to protect your investors.

If someone wishes to withdraw funds, they must either (1) wait on liquid BTC to come available, or (2) bear the the losses incurred by liquidating assets to cover their withdrawal.

To do anything else would be unfair to your loyal investors.

You aren't running a bank; you haven't offered demand-deposit accounts. This is an investment fund.

As someone who hasn't requested a withdraw (even though I have had negative returns since I invested so far), I tend to agree with that.

However, the second post of this thread is misleading, as you write (and haven't modified it) that withdrawals are processed at the end of each week. Maybe you should make things clearer there too, even if I understand that people can get frustrated or angry when the rules are altered by the fund manager without prior warning.

Thank you for pointing that out
I should obviously have changed that, it's done now
I get why people are frustrated and angry, but I can't do anything about it. The situation is as it is sorry, I try to provide as good of a service as possible, but I can send out withdraws if the other investors will have to take the hit for that liquidation.
//DeaDTerra

[DeaDTerra]

So who's going to London for the Bitcoin Conference?
anyone feel like meeting up?
I have already planned to meet up with BTCurious and a couple of others.
//DeaDTerra

[cst]

So who's going to London for the Bitcoin Conference?
anyone feel like meeting up?
I have already planned to meet up with BTCurious and a couple of others.
//DeaDTerra

I'm going and would definitely like to meet the manager of my investment fund 

[DeaDTerra]

So who's going to London for the Bitcoin Conference?
anyone feel like meeting up?
I have already planned to meet up with BTCurious and a couple of others.
//DeaDTerra

I'm going and would definitely like to meet the manager of my investment fund 

Sure, I will probably be pretty public of who I am and such, I was thinking of maybe posting if I go and eat with some friends somewhere, so that anyone that wants to join in can
Otherwise I am sure that if you want to find me you can, If you want my number then that can be arranged
//DeaDTerra

[Bitcoin Oz]

If people want to withdraw they should take the hit not the remaining investors.

[Dr.Steve]

I am in agreement with bitcoin.me.