[Investment fund] Gamma Bitcoin Fund [Closed]

[OneEyed]

This is DeaDTerra asking for a leap of faith, will you jump?

As per usual please post your thoughts and questions

Since I invested in GBF, the value of my investment has lost 8.05% not including the current week loss. How much extra loss are we talking about? If there is no reward for long term investors who did not jump off the bandwagon, why would one keep the investment in, take the extra loss you are talking about then take the profits instead of cashing out before you liquidate the remaining bad investments and jumping back in after you have done so?

Moreover, why send you extra money now, before the fund takes a new loss, rather than wait a few weeks and invest in a much saner fund?

It looks like you are asking your faithful investors to share the loss, and even to increase their portion of the next loss to come, without rewarding them appropriately.

[DeaDTerra]

This is DeaDTerra asking for a leap of faith, will you jump?

As per usual please post your thoughts and questions

Since I invested in GBF, the value of my investment has lost 8.05% not including the current week loss. How much extra loss are we talking about? If there is no reward for long term investors who did not jump off the bandwagon, why would one keep the investment in, take the extra loss you are talking about then take the profits instead of cashing out before you liquidate the remaining bad investments and jumping back in after you have done so?

Moreover, why send you extra money now, before the fund takes a new loss, rather than wait a few weeks and invest in a much saner fund?

It looks like you are asking your faithful investors to share the loss, and even to increase their portion of the next loss to come, without rewarding them appropriately.

The loses will be around 8% and they will be taken today, independent of if you have a withdraw waiting or not. This was inevitable as ZIP.A and Rebate has been locked down and are basically worthless until the issuers start paying back the debt.
I have already liquidated almost all of the investment and with the new system which will be implemented next weekend people have to make a choice of long term vs short term.
So there's no jumping into GBF and then out back again, those times are over. It reduced our profits and causes tons of extra work for me hence the change of the infrastructure.

You would send it once at the start of this week, and it would not take any of the loses for the liquidation of the rest of the bad assets.
Sorry if I was unclear, the statement was not planned it was more written from heart so I didn't have anyone looking through it except me.

That is not true, the loses will come before the new deposits. I am simply asking people to deposit if they wish for the new start with out clean portfolio.
Thanks for you feedback
//DeaDTerra

[burger]

I hope ZIP.A and Rebate start repaying soon as I have some ZIP.A assets on GLBSE.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Ive had a withdraw waiting for a week and now I have to lose another 8% as some kind of punishment ?

Thanks....

[DeaDTerra]

Ive had a withdraw waiting for a week and now I have to lose another 8% as some kind of punishment ?

Thanks....

-8% is not a punishment, it's a fact that ZIP.A and Rebate is basically worthless, the loss would be realized sometime anyways.
I have never guaranteed profit nor the original balance, you knew there were risks when you invested. A default of some of our investment has always been a risk.
//DeaDTerra

[Timbo925]

The -8% will hurt but I hope we can recover from this. Personally lost already about 7% of my investment but I was aware of the risks involved. I do hope we can start generating some profit otherwise a lot of people will jump ship. I was just wondering how much % we will lose if pirate defaulted. You said before you picked up some cheap PPT shares.

I will be sticking around for at least a month with the new long term investment. It does seem like a good idea so you can use more btc for lending and long term investments in stead of just coins sitting in a wallet not generating anything. Also is their still a change we will see some of the money from ZIP.A an Rebate back? 

Hope we can start making profit soon

[bitsire]

Ive had a withdraw waiting for a week and now I have to lose another 8% as some kind of punishment ?

Thanks....

-8% is not a punishment, it's a fact that ZIP.A and Rebate is basically worthless, the loss would be realized sometime anyways.
I have never guaranteed profit nor the original balance, you knew there were risks when you invested. A default of some of our investment has always been a risk.
//DeaDTerra

I have to agree with bitcoin.me on this - I also have a withdraw in queue and while I have no problem waiting, it doesn't seem right that we are locked into losses while we must wait for our withdraws to be processed.

I realize that profit and the original balance were not guaranteed, but you also did not require any sort of minimum investment period - it was implied that one could make a withdraw at any time. It was never stated that one could be locked out of their funds during liquidations and reorgs of the portfolio.

[DeaDTerra]

Ive had a withdraw waiting for a week and now I have to lose another 8% as some kind of punishment ?

Thanks....

-8% is not a punishment, it's a fact that ZIP.A and Rebate is basically worthless, the loss would be realized sometime anyways.
I have never guaranteed profit nor the original balance, you knew there were risks when you invested. A default of some of our investment has always been a risk.
//DeaDTerra

I have to agree with bitcoin.me on this - I also have a withdraw in queue and while I have no problem waiting, it doesn't seem right that we are locked into losses while we must wait for our withdraws to be processed.

I realize that profit and the original balance were not guaranteed, but you also did not require any sort of minimum investment period - it was implied that one could make a withdraw at any time. It was never stated that one could be locked out of their funds during liquidations and reorgs of the portfolio.

The other option I would have is to let the rest of the investor take any profit/loses made under this period which wouldn't be fair to them and would case further withdraws.

This was indeed the case and I am trying to process and send out withdraws as soon as I can but liquidation on GLBSE is not a fast matter. I am currently liquidating slower then people are requesting withdraws. This is one of my final pushes towards trying to clear this queue and to get back to normal buisiness, if this is not possible and I have done everything I can to improve the situation, I will have to shut down the fund and start a full liquidation. This is something I want to avoid until the very last moment as it will cause both massive loses and also take a lot of time, but it's the only fair thing I could do. Everyone would share the losses and there would be a final payout of the amount I managed to liquidate from out portfolio, but as said it would be the last thing on my list when all other options have been tried.

It's a dark cycle, too much withdraws causes low liquid BTC amount, which puts on a pressure to start fast liquidation. This forces me to not take opportunities and instead aggressively liquidate which cases further loses due to that our normal operation is disturbed. Which in turn causes more withdraws. See the problem? It has to be broken but it's no easy task.

If anyone has any tip or feedback I would appreciate it
And I am truly sorry for all of this mess, it was nothing I intended to happen and it's nothing I wanted to happen. I have worked my ass off from the start to try to clear up this mess but it's no easy task. Hopefully most of you see that for you that don't, there's not much else to say then I am sorry!

//DeaDTerra

[Timbo925]

I think this is the best way to go. This is an investment fund so if you want fast-in fast-out you should have invested in the first place. (This will be solved with the new plan)
People just need to calm down and not start to panic. It will only cost you more money in the end.
DeaDTerra showed that he is capable of making a profit, but market conditions were hard.
Would really hate it this fund comes to an end just by a small dip in profits ans some panic.

-Timbo925

[rockyleal]

My trust in DT's skill and integrity remains unshaken. Even after the not cool at all -8.9% figure we are seeing today. I have chosen to believe his speech about how the worse is behind, and hope that we will see profits from now on.

But I would like to know about this ZIP.A and Rebate situation. What happened? Are there chances of getting some money back at all?

[Bitcoin Oz]

My trust in DT's skill and integrity remains unshaken. Even after the not cool at all -8.9% figure we are seeing today. I have chosen to believe his speech about how the worse is behind, and hope that we will see profits from now on.

But I would like to know about this ZIP.A and Rebate situation. What happened? Are there chances of getting some money back at all?

Probably no chance at all. ZIP.A was a ponzi scheme.

[DeaDTerra]

My trust in DT's skill and integrity remains unshaken. Even after the not cool at all -8.9% figure we are seeing today. I have chosen to believe his speech about how the worse is behind, and hope that we will see profits from now on.

But I would like to know about this ZIP.A and Rebate situation. What happened? Are there chances of getting some money back at all?

Probably no chance at all. ZIP.A was a ponzi scheme.

ZIP.A, was an actual project that was developed but it turned out to have a major flaw instead of admitting that and either A, change the task of the project to fix it or B, shut down the project and pay back the investors. JRO thought that he could fix that flaw so he kept paying dividends of a project that was not working keeping a illusion up that everything was fine
//DeaDTerra

[Bitcoin Oz]

My trust in DT's skill and integrity remains unshaken. Even after the not cool at all -8.9% figure we are seeing today. I have chosen to believe his speech about how the worse is behind, and hope that we will see profits from now on.

But I would like to know about this ZIP.A and Rebate situation. What happened? Are there chances of getting some money back at all?

Probably no chance at all. ZIP.A was a ponzi scheme.

ZIP.A, was an actual project that was developed but it turned out to have a major flaw instead of admitting that and either A, change the task of the project to fix it or B, shut down the project and pay back the investors. JRO thought that he could fix that flaw so he kept paying dividends of a project that was not working keeping a illusion up that everything was fine
//DeaDTerra

To be fair bitcoinrebate never worked from day one either.

He hired trusted forum members as front men to run all this which lured in more investment. Never trust an asset where the guy running the show doesnt have the balls to face investors.

[DeaDTerra]

My trust in DT's skill and integrity remains unshaken. Even after the not cool at all -8.9% figure we are seeing today. I have chosen to believe his speech about how the worse is behind, and hope that we will see profits from now on.

But I would like to know about this ZIP.A and Rebate situation. What happened? Are there chances of getting some money back at all?

Probably no chance at all. ZIP.A was a ponzi scheme.

ZIP.A, was an actual project that was developed but it turned out to have a major flaw instead of admitting that and either A, change the task of the project to fix it or B, shut down the project and pay back the investors. JRO thought that he could fix that flaw so he kept paying dividends of a project that was not working keeping a illusion up that everything was fine
//DeaDTerra

To be fair bitcoinrebate never worked from day one either.

He hired trusted forum members as front men to run all this which lured in more investment. Never trust an asset where the guy running the show doesnt have the balls to face investors.

BitcoinRebate was a good idea and if JRO had only done his part and not jumped of the ship so to speak things could have gone well. Instead he bailed and didn't communicate with anyone. I did what I could but it was not my idea and I am no developer, Alberto couldn't pull it off himself, we needed a team but because JRO wasn't there we had none.

Yea...
Bad decisions to invest with him, I have to admit. Probably my worst mistake since the fund start,
//DeaDTerra

[Bitcoin Oz]

My trust in DT's skill and integrity remains unshaken. Even after the not cool at all -8.9% figure we are seeing today. I have chosen to believe his speech about how the worse is behind, and hope that we will see profits from now on.

But I would like to know about this ZIP.A and Rebate situation. What happened? Are there chances of getting some money back at all?

Probably no chance at all. ZIP.A was a ponzi scheme.

ZIP.A, was an actual project that was developed but it turned out to have a major flaw instead of admitting that and either A, change the task of the project to fix it or B, shut down the project and pay back the investors. JRO thought that he could fix that flaw so he kept paying dividends of a project that was not working keeping a illusion up that everything was fine
//DeaDTerra

To be fair bitcoinrebate never worked from day one either.

He hired trusted forum members as front men to run all this which lured in more investment. Never trust an asset where the guy running the show doesnt have the balls to face investors.

BitcoinRebate was a good idea and if JRO had only done his part and not jumped of the ship so to speak things could have gone well. Instead he bailed and didn't communicate with anyone. I did what I could but it was not my idea and I am no developer, Alberto couldn't pull it off himself, we needed a team but because JRO wasn't there we had none.

Yea...
Bad decisions to invest with him, I have to admit. Probably my worst mistake since the fund start,
//DeaDTerra

From what i can gather it is a common MO for the guy.

[DeaDTerra]

As suggested by one of the investors I am now looking for a loan for GBF
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=103619.0

If you chose to withdraw immediately a small % will be taken as a fee to pay this loan back, I have yet to set that rate as it depends on what kind of rates we get on the loan. If you don't want to pay this fee you can chose to wait, I will from now on not have the withdraw requested btc be a part of the fund instead they will be removed from the investor list and be written down as a debt. This means the investors that have requested a withdraw and do not want to pay the fee, will not take any loses nor any profits.

This is a temporary solution and hopefully it will help us get over this hurdle and move on so that we can implement out new system

Thank you!
//DeaDTerra
* I realized this might be a too rushed idea and a bit to risk, I will keep it in mind but I need to think it over*

[DeaDTerra]

Withdraw list:

#58: 19.134 BTC
#95: 100 BTC
#114: 176.813BTC
#62: 24.166 BTC
#43: 34.315 BTC
#98: 4.931 BTC
#52: 174.382 BTC
#91: 500 BTC 239 BTC
#4:   17.0607 BTC
#53: 156.748  BTC
#112: 84.7399 BTC
#93: 81.852 BTC
#79: 72.577 BTC
#81: 16.898 BTC
#73: 396.857 BTC
#91: 368.98 BTC
#55: 10.155 BTC
#107: 328.477 BTC
#109: 15.48 BTC
The withdraws have been sent out there's about 0 BTC left in the withdraw queue.
Seems like things are starting to brighten up, as we have only a small amount of BTC in the withdraw queue I will resume normal trading
//DeaDTerra

[keystroke]

Hi DT! Just reviewed the new plan and I like it. Sorry to ask again, but how much of the fund, if any, was exposed to Pirate?

[lenny_]

@keystroke:
You can see it in spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq6Ug2ODt-l2dC13WldWaTBWQVNYZWRwVDgtQmhzUkE#gid=0
Uninsured pirate exposure was 0, recently DT bought some pirate shares worth in total 182 BTC, because he believe they will be bought back at better price.
Everything is in the logbook: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq6Ug2ODt-l2dHBoeDFWTC10QXYwR25rRXctWUE3a3c#gid=16

[keystroke]

@keystroke:
You can see it in spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq6Ug2ODt-l2dC13WldWaTBWQVNYZWRwVDgtQmhzUkE#gid=0
Uninsured pirate exposure was 0, recently DT bought some pirate shares worth in total 182 BTC, because he believe they will be bought back at better price.
Everything is in the logbook: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq6Ug2ODt-l2dHBoeDFWTC10QXYwR25rRXctWUE3a3c#gid=16

Thanks!