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Author Topic: ★★★ MEMs LIST of GAMBLING SITES ★★★  (Read 121204 times)
mem
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November 15, 2012, 09:39:47 AM
 #241

The site design is nice Smiley

Thanks!

May I suggest generating your result in a verifiable way.

We intend to change the lotteries so that the selected values are selected at the listing of the game and then a hash of the values is provided which can then be verified after the game closes.  Unfortunately we can't do something similar for the raffles as we don't know beforehand how many tickets will be sold for each game.

Do you have an announcement thread ?

Yes, our announcement thread is here

I like to see a bit of play history on lotto sites before moving them out of pending.

The site has been live for a while now and there are some testimonials on the announcement thread above.

Thanks!

No problems, please fill in my new template (ahh laziness) and I'll get it added shortly Smiley

Code:
Site:
Key:
Min Cash In:
Min Cash Out:
Games:
Min Bet:
Max Bet:
Comments:

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dustintrammell
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November 16, 2012, 04:17:31 AM
 #242

No problems, please fill in my new template (ahh laziness) and I'll get it added shortly Smiley

Code:
Site: BitDraw
Key: Shouldn't you be filling this one in? (:
Min Cash In: 0.001 BTC
Min Cash Out: 0.001 BTC
Games: Daily and Weekly Raffles and Lotteries
Min Bet: 1 TKN (0.001 BTC)
Max Bet: None
Comments: Bitcoin (BTC) deposits are converted to game tokens (TKN) as are token withdrawals converted back into Bitcoin.  Static exchange rate is 1:1000.
Switch Poker
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November 22, 2012, 01:21:16 PM
 #243

Quote from: mem
No games are in BTC, you must transfer to USD paying their service fee.
They are currently refusing to cash out my previously deposited funds unless I keep playing with my funds or accept a 5% charge.
Accusing me of "Our deposit and withdrawal system is reserved for players and is not to be used purely to move funds from one payment system to another. ".
Which is false, I played a few rounds on their site then went back to seals with clubs (I didnt like the requirement of converting BTC to EUR and back again.
They have offered me a Skrill cashout, but I am hesitant to use Skrill as it sets off all sorts of alarms on my bank account.

Official SwitchPoker.com representative here.
Since Switch Poker became the first real money poker site to add Bitcoin as a deposit option we have worked hard to ensure a smooth experience for all our users who choose to use Bitcoin payments. It pains us to see this type of misinformation published about our site.

Switch Poker never charges users to deposit or withdraw using only Bitcoins. The only time a withdrawal fee is applied is when a user deposits Skrill / Visa etc and then converts those funds to Bitcoins without any significant play. In these cases the user is attempting to use our system as a way to convert Euro to Bitcoin for free. As we have many costs related to accepting payments (Skrill charge % fees for receiving funds, as do Visa, Neteller etc) we cannot allow users to move funds from Euro to Bitcoin without any charge.

We are upfront about this -- a message similar to the one below is displayed to the user before they move any funds from Euro to Bitcoin.
http://i.imgur.com/Gko5i.png

Had mem deposited Bitcoins and then wished to withdraw Bitcoins then there would be no withdrawal fee.
But if mem deposits using Skrill and converts those funds to Bitcoins and attempts to withdraw them then a fee will apply.


All our games are currently in Euro and it is necessary to convert any Bitcoins to Euro to play. The conversion rate is based on the current exchange rate on the major Bitcoin exchanges and fluctuated. Users are shown the amount of BTC/EUR that they will receive before they accept the conversion. We never hide any costs from users.

We are open to adding Bitcoin only tables, which will mean people can deposit and play but Bitcoin with zero conversion fees. If anyone here would like to see pure Bitcoin tables available please let us know any way that you like
- in this thread
- pm me here
- via our contact form (https://www.switchpoker.com/en/contact)
- via Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/switchpoker)
- via Twitter (https://twitter.com/switchpoker)

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November 22, 2012, 01:49:01 PM
 #244

Had mem deposited Bitcoins and then wished to withdraw Bitcoins then there would be no withdrawal fee.
But if mem deposits using Skrill and converts those funds to Bitcoins and attempts to withdraw them then a fee will apply.

Something I found frustrating, as a US player, was that the minimum deposit was ฿3.00 and the minimum withdrawal was ฿10.00.  Despite filling out my information as a US player, I was permitted to deposit.  I had planned on playing that up to ฿10.00 before withdrawing.  But then, I found I couldn't play on the site.

While I was able to deposit another ฿7.00 and cash out again, without fees, I didn't have that immediately available and it took a couple weeks to do it. 

While you do note this on your site, you really shouldn't accept deposits from players clearly in the United States if they won't be able to play and won't be able to cash out again without making another deposit.

Apologies if you've fixed this already.
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November 22, 2012, 07:30:43 PM
 #245

Something I found frustrating, as a US player, was that the minimum deposit was ฿3.00 and the minimum withdrawal was ฿10.00.  Despite filling out my information as a US player, I was permitted to deposit.  I had planned on playing that up to ฿10.00 before withdrawing.  But then, I found I couldn't play on the site.

While I was able to deposit another ฿7.00 and cash out again, without fees, I didn't have that immediately available and it took a couple weeks to do it. 

While you do note this on your site, you really shouldn't accept deposits from players clearly in the United States if they won't be able to play and won't be able to cash out again without making another deposit.

Apologies if you've fixed this already.

This is certainly an error on our part. We do not currently accept players based in the US and it should not be possible to select US as your location when completing the deposit registration form. If you find a way around this please do let us know and we will take a look. 

If you, or anyone else, have funds that you wish to withdraw below the 10BTC minimum please contact us at support@switchpoker.com and we will process it for you.
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November 22, 2012, 10:44:55 PM
 #246

I'm fine now.  I just made a BTC7 deposit and cashed out.  Other than not being able to play there (and I should have checked the fine print first), I have no problem with the site.
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November 23, 2012, 07:57:26 PM
 #247

Site: bittlelotto.dyndns.tv
Key:  Kiss Grin
Min Cash In: N/A
Min Cash Out: N/A
Games: Lotto
Min Bet: .001
Max Bet: Huh
Comments: Admin is a site member (Me)

Bitbook.biz - The best odds and quickest transactions of any BTC sportsbook
mem
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November 28, 2012, 09:28:34 AM
 #248

No problems, please fill in my new template (ahh laziness) and I'll get it added shortly Smiley

Code:
Site: BitDraw
Key: Shouldn't you be filling this one in? (:
Min Cash In: 0.001 BTC
Min Cash Out: 0.001 BTC
Games: Daily and Weekly Raffles and Lotteries
Min Bet: 1 TKN (0.001 BTC)
Max Bet: None
Comments: Bitcoin (BTC) deposits are converted to game tokens (TKN) as are token withdrawals converted back into Bitcoin.  Static exchange rate is 1:1000.

added thanks for filling in the template Smiley
Is your game provably fair ?

mem
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November 28, 2012, 10:06:52 AM
 #249

Quote from: mem
No games are in BTC, you must transfer to USD paying their service fee.
They are currently refusing to cash out my previously deposited funds unless I keep playing with my funds or accept a 5% charge.
Accusing me of "Our deposit and withdrawal system is reserved for players and is not to be used purely to move funds from one payment system to another. ".
Which is false, I played a few rounds on their site then went back to seals with clubs (I didnt like the requirement of converting BTC to EUR and back again.
They have offered me a Skrill cashout, but I am hesitant to use Skrill as it sets off all sorts of alarms on my bank account.

Official SwitchPoker.com representative here.
Since Switch Poker became the first real money poker site to add Bitcoin as a deposit option we have worked hard to ensure a smooth experience for all our users who choose to use Bitcoin payments. It pains us to see this type of misinformation published about our site.

Switch Poker never charges users to deposit or withdraw using only Bitcoins. The only time a withdrawal fee is applied is when a user deposits Skrill / Visa etc and then converts those funds to Bitcoins without any significant play. In these cases the user is attempting to use our system as a way to convert Euro to Bitcoin for free. As we have many costs related to accepting payments (Skrill charge % fees for receiving funds, as do Visa, Neteller etc) we cannot allow users to move funds from Euro to Bitcoin without any charge.

We are upfront about this -- a message similar to the one below is displayed to the user before they move any funds from Euro to Bitcoin.


Had mem deposited Bitcoins and then wished to withdraw Bitcoins then there would be no withdrawal fee.
But if mem deposits using Skrill and converts those funds to Bitcoins and attempts to withdraw them then a fee will apply.


All our games are currently in Euro and it is necessary to convert any Bitcoins to Euro to play. The conversion rate is based on the current exchange rate on the major Bitcoin exchanges and fluctuated. Users are shown the amount of BTC/EUR that they will receive before they accept the conversion. We never hide any costs from users.

We are open to adding Bitcoin only tables, which will mean people can deposit and play but Bitcoin with zero conversion fees. If anyone here would like to see pure Bitcoin tables available please let us know any way that you like
- in this thread
- pm me here
- via our contact form (https://www.switchpoker.com/en/contact)
- via Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/switchpoker)
- via Twitter (https://twitter.com/switchpoker)



Hello and thank you for the response.
I accepted their 5% tax on cashing out via bitcoins and consider the matter resolved, I was mistaken in thinking i had topped up my balance with bitcoins on their site, but after checking my history it shows I have only ever deposited 2x using skrill.
I would like to note switchpoker contacted me by email to inform me that they are trialing bitcoin poker games, please drop by and checkout their games and show some support. They have a thread regarding the bitcoin games here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=128000.0

mem
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November 28, 2012, 10:15:34 AM
 #250

Site: bittlelotto.dyndns.tv
Key:  Kiss Grin
Min Cash In: N/A
Min Cash Out: N/A
Games: Lotto
Min Bet: .001
Max Bet: Huh
Comments: Admin is a site member (Me)

Noted, it will need some play time before it makes the main list.

Quote
I will take 10% from each drawing as a commmission.

A bit steep dont you think ?

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December 01, 2012, 08:50:03 PM
 #251

Site: bittlelotto.dyndns.tv
Key:  Kiss Grin
Min Cash In: N/A
Min Cash Out: N/A
Games: Lotto
Min Bet: .001
Max Bet: Huh
Comments: Admin is a site member (Me)

Noted, it will need some play time before it makes the main list.

Quote
I will take 10% from each drawing as a commmission.

A bit steep dont you think ?

Its not really that steep, and it will change from time to time, when i get to adding daily drawings it will probally go down to around 2% for daily and 5% for weekly if that.

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December 03, 2012, 07:33:02 AM
 #252

added thanks for filling in the template Smiley
Is your game provably fair ?

One of the next updates the developers are working on is pre-selecting the winning values for the lotteries and publishing a hash of those values, which will make the lottery games provably fair.  As I stated before, we unfortunately can't do this for the raffles as we don't know before the game closes how many raffle tickets are sold, which determines the selection process.

One other thing, per our FAQ, we use a neutral third party for our RNG which provides true random numbers to our game.
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December 03, 2012, 09:30:35 AM
 #253

added thanks for filling in the template Smiley
Is your game provably fair ?

One of the next updates the developers are working on is pre-selecting the winning values for the lotteries and publishing a hash of those values, which will make the lottery games provably fair.  As I stated before, we unfortunately can't do this for the raffles as we don't know before the game closes how many raffle tickets are sold, which determines the selection process.

One other thing, per our FAQ, we use a neutral third party for our RNG which provides true random numbers to our game.

I might misunderstand, but if you are pre-selecting the winning value doesn't that mean you know it and could play it?

Play Bitcoin Poker at sealswithclubs.eu. We're active and open to everyone.
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December 03, 2012, 09:30:37 PM
 #254

As I stated before, we unfortunately can't do this for the raffles as we don't know before the game closes how many raffle tickets are sold, which determines the selection process.

Sure you can.  Preselect a huge random number.  Publish its hash.  Then once you know how many tickets were sold, divide the huge number by the number of tickets sold and calculate the remainder.  That'll be a number between 0 and tickets-1 and tells you who won.  Publish the huge number to prove you didn't cheat.

Example:
 * pick huge number 345978060225
 * publish hash of huge number
 * sell 10 tickets, number them 0 through 9
 * divide huge number by 10 giving remainder = 5
 * ticket #5 is the winner; publish the huge number so everyone can check the hash

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December 04, 2012, 02:18:10 AM
 #255

Sure you can.  Preselect a huge random number.  Publish its hash.  Then once you know how many tickets were sold, divide the huge number by the number of tickets sold and calculate the remainder.  That'll be a number between 0 and tickets-1 and tells you who won.  Publish the huge number to prove you didn't cheat.

Ah, good point, I didn't consider just using a modulus operation against the number of tickets.
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December 04, 2012, 02:22:12 AM
 #256

* pick huge number 345978060225
 * publish hash of huge number

either make it a really really huge number, or concatenate some secret string to it before you do the hash:

sha256(345978060225 . 'WFJIJFDSJF2MZIOWJEFIOWEJ');

* ticket #5 is the winner; publish the huge number and the secret string that you added to the end of it so everyone can check the hash
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December 04, 2012, 02:25:52 AM
 #257

I might misunderstand, but if you are pre-selecting the winning value doesn't that mean you know it and could play it?

That is correct, however I have not thought of a way to solve this issue without completely offloading the RNG to a third party that would be able to encrypt the random data prior to providing us with it along with a hash of the data so that we would not have access to it initially, however then you have the problem of the third party being able to calculate the numbers from the provided data and playing them, as well has having to have a timed mechanism for the third party to deliver the encryption key when it is necessary to decrypt and use the data.  We're already offloading the RNG to a third party to get quality random data that cannot be predicted, however I am unaware of an RNG source that could provide the other considerations.  I'll research more into ways to generate random numbers without having knowledge of them until a later time.
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December 04, 2012, 02:35:07 AM
 #258

* pick huge number 345978060225
 * publish hash of huge number

either make it a really really huge number, or concatenate some secret string to it before you do the hash:

sha256(345978060225 . 'WFJIJFDSJF2MZIOWJEFIOWEJ');

Our hashed strings will include a very large random salt, the game ID information, a timestamp, and the preselected lottery values or in this case the preselected really huge number.
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December 04, 2012, 04:45:55 AM
 #259

I might misunderstand, but if you are pre-selecting the winning value doesn't that mean you know it and could play it?

That is correct, however I have not thought of a way to solve this issue without completely offloading the RNG to a third party that would be able to encrypt the random data prior to providing us with it along with a hash of the data so that we would not have access to it initially, however then you have the problem of the third party being able to calculate the numbers from the provided data and playing them, as well has having to have a timed mechanism for the third party to deliver the encryption key when it is necessary to decrypt and use the data.

Have you seen https://lbaat.net/ ?

They're able to keep a private key entirely secret (neither the eventual owner nor lbaat themselves can access the key) until a certain time in the future.

You could send a token amount to an LBAAT address and use the corresponding private key (which nobody, not even you will know until after the game has ended) as the 'random data' (or at least use it to modify the secret data you picked).  You can publish the corresponding public key before the game starts, which allows people to verify that you're being fair.

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December 04, 2012, 05:43:54 AM
 #260


welcome back vitsum Smiley

Love your game.

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