Diablo Mining Company

[nebulus]

Grr... I am not telling you not to follow regulations. I am telling you that the deal you put on the table is shit.

Let's recollect.
1) You took people's money, lost it and blamed nefario for your fuck up (for some reason all other corps are doing fine)
2) You promised to do buyback but you don't want to do that anymore because "fuck it?"
3) You ripped people of their BTCMC equity because you "feel" they are valueless
4) Your trade back is not fair because you force people to accept your rounding policy.
5) You change the rules mid-game whenever you feel like it regardless of what you put down in writing.

Now, you want to extend this sweet deal further by doing this bond thing and paying back in fiat 5 years from now when BTC will be worth way more than that.

Anyway I made you a fair offer in PM.

[1714772191]

1714772191

[1714772191]

1714772191

[1714772191]

1714772191

[iCEBREAKER]

BTCMC has no value. Yochdog says he ordered BFL units and has not been paying dividends and is not traded anywhere and you can't sell it like you can AM shares.
If there is any value in these, this will be retained for DMC 2.0, but as I said, I believe they have zero value.
Continued operation of DMC 1.0 makes no sense. We can not get to where we want to go from here. So either take an offering of your share of ASICMINER, or pledge your support of DMC 2.0, thats your only two options.

You are confusing liquidity with value.  Did AM have "no value" before the pass-throughs, when it was "not traded anywhere?"    

Your personal opinion of BTCMC's worth doesn't agree with the market, which has placed a premium on DMC shares over their 1/11 AM backing.

Why?  Because BTCMC has value in the form of producing assets, expertise, personnel, branding ,reputation, accumulated dividends, ASIC orders, and money tied up in Goxcoinica:

BitCo is a mature organization with stable operations.  Through our network of 40+ miners in 3 locations, we are able to achieve a maximum mining capacity of 40 GH/s.  Our technical know-how allows us to achieve fantastic up-time with few unplanned outages.  Our cost structure is very low due to favorable cooling methods as well as very cheap electricity.  

We currently have mining operations across 3 locations:
1)   A residential office, with 30,950 MH/s of capacity.  Nearly maxed out.
2)   2,000 SF class A office space with 11,503 MH/s of capacity.  Nearly maxed out.
3)   3,500 SF class A office space with 4,500 MH/s of capacity.  Nearly maxed out.

We own dozens of BFL singles, and will use those towards upgrading to as many BFL asics as we can

no dividends will be paid out until our ASIC hardware arrives.  I will be presenting updated financials once we receive the new hardware, which I hope is within 30 days.  

What we all need to do is put pressure on MT Gox to assist the receiver with the Bitcoinica debacle, as the amount of money we have tied up there is now approaching $100,000.

DMC 2.0 has zero value, unless you plunder 1.0 and steal our BTCMC shares to shore it up.

I don't want to go anywhere near DMC 2.0.  Compete with Amazon and Rackspace for cloud storage?  LOL, good luck with the pipe dream buddy.  And pass that dutch!  

Let me be clear: if you proceed in breaking your promise ("DMC will be buying back shares at market rate over time") and stealing your shareholders' equity in BTCMC, I will report the breach of contract and theft to the Bitcoin Police.

[EskimoBob]

Fuck, not that shit AGAIN!

For misty eyed naive newcomers. BTW, this is not the first time when DiabloD3 fucks over his investors.
DiabloD3, blaming someone else for your stupid blunders got old about 30 pages ago.

[DiabloD3]

Grr... I am not telling you not to follow regulations. I am telling you that the deal you put on the table is shit.

Let's recollect.
1) You took people's money, lost it and blamed nefario for your fuck up (for some reason all other corps are doing fine)
2) You promised to do buyback but you don't want to do that anymore because "fuck it?"
3) You ripped people of their BTCMC equity because you "feel" they are valueless
4) Your trade back is not fair because you force people to accept your rounding policy.
5) You change the rules mid-game whenever you feel like it regardless of what you put down in writing.

Now, you want to extend this sweet deal further by doing this bond thing and paying back in fiat 5 years from now when BTC will be worth way more than that.

Anyway I made you a fair offer in PM.

1) 405.34 to 680.34 BTC were still owed as of the end of April. Using a 1.1 BTC value per ASICMINER share and 246 ASICMINER shares have already been traded (our largest shareholder took choice A), an additional 270.60 BTC has been paid back. At minimum 123 and at maximum 373 shares of ASICMINER clears what was originally invested into DMC. There are still 382 ASICMINER shares, worth 420.20 BTC, left. There was between 1691 and 1966 BTC invested into DMC. That is between a 21% and 25% return on investment.

tl;dr: You made a profit, and you will continue to make a profit with ASICMINER shares.

2) I was participating in a buyback because I was hoping there could be a smooth transition from DMC 1.0 to 2.0, and there cannot be one. nefario gave out a lot of bad advice saying that he got it from his lawyer. I do not believe he had a lawyer, and I believe he acted in bad faith. We collectively pay the penalty for that.

3) I believe BTCMC has been a failure because yochdog relied on BFL units that may never arrived, and if they do they may not turn a profit by the time they arrive. There is no equity, the assets BTCMC holds are worthless (again, if they exist at all, BFL has not sufficiently proved they have the capacity to produce units), and BTCMC is not currently being traded.

4 and 5) This entire thing isn't fair, the whole 9 yards. DMC was supposed to be a company that would show off the strengths of Bitcoin, and thanks to nefario it cannot get there from here. You are getting a better deal out of it, you now can own ASICMINER shares directly and reap all of the dividend instead of half.

Also, this has been a common request to put the deal back on the table now that ASICMINER is not starting a trading platform and relying on the passthrus instead. You have been outvoted by the majority of shareholders on this one.

[DiabloD3]

Fuck, not that shit AGAIN!

For misty eyed naive newcomers. BTW, this is not the first time when DiabloD3 fucks over his investors.
DiabloD3, blaming someone else for your stupid blunders got old about 30 pages ago.

Again, you prove you can't do math.

[DiabloD3]

In 60 days, DMC will no longer be honoring shares that have not taken either choice A or choice B. There are several users who have NOT claimed their shares on BitFunder, in 60 days from this date if you have not claimed them and traded them for ASICMINER or been added to the list for conversion into DMC 2.0 bonds, they will no longer be valid.

Choice A: 11 shares of DMC for 1 share of ASICMINER, whole integer amounts only.

Choice B: Trade 1.0 shares in for 2.0 bonds

Problem 1) Nothing is mentioned about this sudden change of plans in the DMC asset description at https://bitfunder.com/asset/DMC, which says

DMC will be buying back shares at market rate over time.

Problem 2) Neither choice A nor B assign any value to BTCMC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85443.180), which has large amounts of money tied up in disputes and large amounts of dividends re-invested into ASICs.

Hey guys,

As I have stated before, no dividends will be paid out until our ASIC hardware arrives.  I will be presenting updated financials once we receive the new hardware, which I hope is within 30 days. 

What we all need to do is put pressure on MT Gox to assist the receiver with the Bitcoinica debacle, as the amount of money we have tied up there is now approaching $100,000.

Problem 3) DMC has been trading at a substantial premium to the value of 1/11 share of AM (demonstrating the value added by BTCMC) but this forced choice destroys any rational for that valuation.

Problem 4) This unsolicited, involuntary A/B choice functionally steals DMC shareholders' 1000 share stake in BTCMC, right at the time when Yochdog is due to begin ASIC mining.

2) I am not assigning a value to BTCMC. I do not believe BFL can ship the units in time to make a difference and will be not worth the money yochdog paid for them (assuming they do arrive), and the money that is lost (ie, most of it) was lost in the Bitcoinica scam and most likely will never be returned. BTCMC does own GPUs, but because they have custom heatsinks to be rackmounted with high output fans, yochdog cannot find a buyer (even for non-mining users) and most likely will be thrown out or sold for what little scrap value they have.

3) Over 90% of the trading volume since I listed it is me buying shares back.

4) A stake of 0 is still 0, unfortunately. And as I said above, I do not believe BFL has what it takes to deliver in time.

[iCEBREAKER]

I believe BTCMC has been a failure because yochdog relied on BFL units that may never arrived, and if they do they may not turn a profit by the time they arrive. There is no equity, the assets BTCMC holds are worthless (again, if they exist at all, BFL has not sufficiently proved they have the capacity to produce units), and BTCMC is not currently being traded.

You have been outvoted by the majority of shareholders on this one.

I am not assigning a value to BTCMC. I do not believe BFL can ship the units in time to make a difference and will be not worth the money yochdog paid for them (assuming they do arrive), and the money that is lost (ie, most of it) was lost in the Bitcoinica scam and most likely will never be returned. BTCMC does own GPUs, but because they have custom heatsinks to be rackmounted with high output fans, yochdog cannot find a buyer (even for non-mining users) and most likely will be thrown out or sold for what little scrap value they have.

Why not make DMC 2 completely separate from DMC 1 by keeping the 1000 BTCMC shares in DMC 1, just in case BFL comes through or Yochdog makes other arrangements?

You keep repeating these false statements about how BTCMC is "a failure" and "worthless" but they are not true and easily refuted.

BTCMC has at least BTC600 in cash, which Yochdog bid on AM blades.  Source:

Re: ASICMINER Auction: 10 Block Erupter Blades

10 @ 60

BTCMC also owns at least $20k in hardware, installed and producing in ideal locations.  Source:

Here is a breakdown of our hardware:

7970    22
5970    16
6950    7
6970    2
6870    1
6870X2    4
5850    5
5870    3

BFL singles    23

And of course all the MOBOs, PSUs, CPUs, etc that run all that equipment.  

You can assign your own salvage values, but $20,000 seems VERY conservative to me.  

Electricity is amazingly cheap.  2 of our locations provide free power, and we have over 16,000 MH/s installed in those 2 locations.  The other 2 locations have consumption based pricing, and the incremental cost per KWh is $.031.

Loan is backed by my massive mining operation, which can be seen on notroll.in.  I am generally the top miner at 45,000 KH/s +.

[iCEBREAKER]

Fuck, not that shit AGAIN!

For misty eyed naive newcomers. BTW, this is not the first time when DiabloD3 fucks over his investors.
DiabloD3, blaming someone else for your stupid blunders got old about 30 pages ago.

Again, you prove you can't do math.

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING 23 UPGRADE-ELIGIBLE BFL SINGLES ARE "WORTHLESS???"

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING $400/DAY OF LITECOIN MINING POWER IS "WORTHLESS???"

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING BTC600+ IN DIVIDENDS ACCUMULATED FOR REINVESTMENT IN ASICS ARE "WORTHLESS???"

WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO FOOL???

[DiabloD3]

So based on 10k shares of BTCMC, per DMC share

600 / 10000 = 0.06 BTC per DMC share
4 a day / 10000 = 0.00004  BTC a day per DMC share
23 upgrade eligible BFL singles / 10000 = 0.0023 of one BFL single per DMC share

[yochdog]

Fuck, not that shit AGAIN!

For misty eyed naive newcomers. BTW, this is not the first time when DiabloD3 fucks over his investors.
DiabloD3, blaming someone else for your stupid blunders got old about 30 pages ago.

Again, you prove you can't do math.

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING 23 UPGRADE-ELIGIBLE BFL SINGLES ARE "WORTHLESS???"

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING $400/DAY OF LITECOIN MINING POWER IS "WORTHLESS???"

ARE YOU REALLY SAYING BTC600+ IN DIVIDENDS ACCUMULATED FOR REINVESTMENT IN ASICS ARE "WORTHLESS???"

WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO FOOL???

23 upgrade eligible BFL singles that may never be upgraded because BFL may never ship ASICs in time to be profitable.

$400/day of litecoin is less than 4 BTC, and we own a tiny tiny fraction of that.

600+ in dividends that we, too, own a tiny fraction of.

There is something like 50k shares of BTCMC, we have 1k.

600 / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000012 BTC per DMC share
4 a day / 50000 / 1000 = 0.00000008 BTC a day per DMC share
23 upgrade eligible BFL singles / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000000046 of one BFL single per DMC share

I would like to clear up the record here.

-BTCMC has 10,000 shares outstanding.  No more, no less.  
-I have an accurate listing of every single shareholder and an associated BTC address.  
-BFL is late, but appears to be moving towards actual delivery.
-The ASIC units are paid for, thus ANY future production is "profit" in the sense that the cost is a sunk cost.

I disagree with any attempt by Diablo to assign "zero value" to DMC's holdings.  I have no dog in this fight, as I am not a DMC shareholder.

Just the facts. 

[iCEBREAKER]

23 upgrade eligible BFL singles that may never be upgraded because BFL may never ship ASICs in time to be profitable.

$400/day of litecoin is less than 4 BTC, and we own a tiny tiny fraction of that.

600+ in dividends that we, too, own a tiny fraction of.

There is something like 50k shares of BTCMC, we have 1k.

600 / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000012 BTC per DMC share
4 a day / 50000 / 1000 = 0.00000008 BTC a day per DMC share
23 upgrade eligible BFL singles / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000000046 of one BFL single per DMC share

Thank you for the timely and well-considered response.  

Since you believe DMC's 1000 shares of BTCMC are worthless, I will generously (pending Yochdog's approval) buy them immediately, or the right to own them when eventually transferable, for BTC1.0.

That is exactly BTC1.0 more than you think they are worth, so please do the right thing for DMC's long-suffering shareholders and recuperate some salvage value for them.

[EskimoBob]

....
23 upgrade eligible BFL singles that may never be upgraded because BFL may never ship ASICs in time to be profitable.

$400/day of litecoin is less than 4 BTC, and we own a tiny tiny fraction of that.

600+ in dividends that we, too, own a tiny fraction of.

There is something like 50k shares of BTCMC, we have 1k.

600 / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000012 BTC per DMC share
4 a day / 50000 / 1000 = 0.00000008 BTC a day per DMC share
23 upgrade eligible BFL singles / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000000046 of one BFL single per DMC share

So, what you are actually saying is, YOU DID blunder spectacularly... AGAIN! and  and now you big sick head tells you you can pocket those "worthless" shares of BTCMC etc.

[burnside]

Thank you for the timely and well-considered response.  

Since you believe DMC's 1000 shares of BTCMC are worthless, I will generously (pending Yochdog's approval) buy them immediately, or the right to own them when eventually transferable, for BTC1.0.

That is exactly BTC1.0 more than you think they are worth, so please do the right thing for DMC's long-suffering shareholders and recuperate some salvage value for them.

I bid BTC2.0   

[nebulus]

There is something like 50k shares of BTCMC, we have 1k.

600 / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000012 BTC per DMC share

Dude wtf?
600 / 50000 TIMES 1000 = 12 and on... is the math

[iCEBREAKER]

I would like to clear up the record here.

-BTCMC has 10,000 shares outstanding.  No more, no less.  
-I have an accurate listing of every single shareholder and an associated BTC address.  
-BFL is late, but appears to be moving towards actual delivery.
-The ASIC units are paid for, thus ANY future production is "profit" in the sense that the cost is a sunk cost.

I disagree with any attempt by Diablo to assign "zero value" to DMC's holdings.  I have no dog in this fight, as I am not a DMC shareholder.

Just the facts. 

TYVM for setting the record straight.

Diablow has really painted himself into a corner trying to pull fast one.

50,000 share, 10,000 shares...what's the difference when you're as good at math as Diablow.  

He can either sell me the "worthless" shares or man up and lean into the oncoming Scammer Tag.

This whole '1000 BTCMC shares are worthless but I want to keep them for myself instead of selling them to a willing buyer' thing ain't gonna cut it!

Edit: Fuck you burnside!  I bid BTC2.01.  

[DiabloD3]

There is something like 50k shares of BTCMC, we have 1k.

600 / 50000 / 1000 = 0.000012 BTC per DMC share

Dude wtf?
600 / 50000 TIMES 1000 = 12 and on... is the math

Times 1000 for per share? What are you on? Seriously, it looks like fun.

[DiabloD3]

I would like to clear up the record here.

-BTCMC has 10,000 shares outstanding.  No more, no less.  
-I have an accurate listing of every single shareholder and an associated BTC address.  
-BFL is late, but appears to be moving towards actual delivery.
-The ASIC units are paid for, thus ANY future production is "profit" in the sense that the cost is a sunk cost.

I disagree with any attempt by Diablo to assign "zero value" to DMC's holdings.  I have no dog in this fight, as I am not a DMC shareholder.

Just the facts. 

I'm sorry they dragged you over here.

1) Oops, thought it was 50k. My bad.
2) Yes, you do. No one was disputing this.
3) I do not think BFL will deliver in a timescale that will not see the combined effort of Avalon and ASICMINER make BFL units not worth even a fraction of what everyone paid for them.
4) Yes, but they will still not pay for themselves and will likely pay very little to DMC.

[nebulus]

Dude wtf?
600 / 50000 TIMES 1000 = 12 and on... is the math

Times 1000 for per share? What are you on? Seriously, it looks like fun.

Okay... I'll do the math for you.

Debt: 600BTC
Total BTCMC: 10K
DMC holding: 1000
Total DMC: 10K

You get
600 / 10000 * 1000 / 10000 = 0.006 per DMC

I have 700 DMC shares and that makes 4.2 BTC of unrealized gains for me..

Anyway, man, I have made you a pretty good offer (I am asking 64 AM for 700 DMC). I don't want to deal with depositing anything extra into BitFunder to buy extra 4 shares to make it whole. You can have all the equity you call "valueless" for the price of 0.4 AM share.

As far as it's concerned the whole DMC thing ain't gonna happen. You don't have what it takes.

[DiabloD3]

Dude wtf?
600 / 50000 TIMES 1000 = 12 and on... is the math

Times 1000 for per share? What are you on? Seriously, it looks like fun.

Okay... I'll do the math for you.

Debt: 600BTC
Total BTCMC: 10K
DMC holding: 1000
Total DMC: 10K

You get
600 / 10000 * 1000 / 10000 = 0.006 per DMC

I have 700 DMC shares and that makes 4.2 BTC of unrealized gains for me..

Anyway, man, I have made you a pretty good offer (I am asking 64 AM for 700 DMC). I don't want to deal with depositing anything extra into BitFunder to buy extra 4 shares to make it whole. You can have all the equity you call valueless for the price of 0.4 AM share.

As far as it's concerned the whole DMC thing ain't gonna happen. You don't have what it takes.

Er, yes, I screwed up the math. Its been a long day on the phone with various people, oh well.

I don't mind rounding up to the next whole AM share for people trading in enough of them, thats fine. You don't have to be insulting about it, however.

So, until I figure out what to do with these BTCMC shares (yochdog said he'll allow me to auction them off, but only to a single party), I'll stop the 60 day clock.

[SOSLOVE868]

I would like to clear up the record here.

-BTCMC has 10,000 shares outstanding.  No more, no less.  
-I have an accurate listing of every single shareholder and an associated BTC address.  
-BFL is late, but appears to be moving towards actual delivery.
-The ASIC units are paid for, thus ANY future production is "profit" in the sense that the cost is a sunk cost.

I disagree with any attempt by Diablo to assign "zero value" to DMC's holdings.  I have no dog in this fight, as I am not a DMC shareholder.

Just the facts. 

I'm sorry they dragged you over here.

1) Oops, thought it was 50k. My bad.
2) Yes, you do. No one was disputing this.
3) I do not think BFL will deliver in a timescale that will not see the combined effort of Avalon and ASICMINER make BFL units not worth even a fraction of what everyone paid for them.
4) Yes, but they will still not pay for themselves and will likely pay very little to DMC.


I think exclude DMC's shares on BTCMC, that  currently there are 10657 shares of DMC on trade.. and it is means 10657/1000. each 10.657 shares equal to 1 shares of ASICMINER, it means if all shares had agree that subscribe 11 for 1 , then total you only send out 968, and another 32 is still in your hand.. I think you did not use the dividend from MAY to buy back any shares.. this amount also another 18.367 bitcoin. to be fair enough ,this policy is just push people to alows you take assets from them...and about choice B , five years maturity time just ridiculos. I hope if you are honesty people. You should spend this dividend first to buy back some shares, until total shares become 10K in total, then give a choice which is 10 shares of DMC for 1 Shares of ASICMINER....it would be mre fair...as I really didn't see any current amount of shares had decrease yet, since last dividend.