BinaryMage
|
|
April 22, 2012, 11:01:31 PM |
|
Keep in mind 1 million bitcoins is 4.7% of all bitcoins ever to be mined. Yes, I understand you wont hold these all at once but its still just a massive percent of the whole economy.
Just for comparision, 4.7% of all USD in existence is ~2 trillion dollars. Apple's market cap is just about 600 billion. Uh, no. All USD in existence is measured in the quadrillions. Our annual Federal budget is more than 2 trillion. The war in Iraq cost more than 2 trillion. The difference here is, Wall Street valuation is not based on reality, and USD is inflationary. Your comparison is rather pointless. Meaningless in the number, yes. Meaningless in the point, not so much. Potential investors and I are just not seeing eye to eye on this, and its a waste of time and money to try to continue. I want to make sure no one can get a stranglehold on the Bitcoin economy, but no one really seems to either think that can happen (stealth privately owned mining companies, etc), or they don't see its worth plunking the money down as a sort of insurance.
I think it's possible for a big, long-term mining operation like this to get funding and succeed, but this isn't a good way to issue shares. You should partner with someone who knows more about finance/business. I concur with theymos. Your idea is perfectly valid, and I think interest does exist, but to launch a venture on this scale is a whole different ballgame with whole different rules in comparison to the GLBSE-funded companies in existence.
|
|
|
|
Nefario
|
|
April 23, 2012, 12:47:13 AM |
|
I concur with theymos. Your idea is perfectly valid, and I think interest does exist, but to launch a venture on this scale is a whole different ballgame with whole different rules in comparison to the GLBSE-funded companies in existence.
Right now GLBSE certainly wouldn't be ready for something of this size (the market size on GLBSE is simply too small at the moment), and I would need to have added a lot more functionality in managing shares, dividends and other things as well, all coming in due time but not here yet.
|
PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 25, 2012, 08:11:00 AM Last edit: May 09, 2012, 02:16:50 AM by DiabloD3 |
|
(The plan has been moved to the op post)
|
|
|
|
Nefario
|
|
April 25, 2012, 08:15:35 AM |
|
Don't forget taxes, there is slim to 0 chance of you being able to run an operation of that size without the taxman coming after you.
|
PGP key id at pgp.mit.edu 0xA68F4B7C To get help and support for GLBSE please email support@glbse.com
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 25, 2012, 08:21:11 AM |
|
Don't forget taxes, there is slim to 0 chance of you being able to run an operation of that size without the taxman coming after you.
Operating costs. Although, the fun part there, I think the federal government still has tax rebates on solar panel deployment, so taxes work both ways.
|
|
|
|
sturle
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
|
|
April 25, 2012, 08:29:43 AM |
|
At 1.5m diff and prices north of $5: 54 BTC a day or $270 a day or $98,550 a year. [...] 156 * 85 ghash is 13 thash, or enough to completely secure the cryptographic safety of Bitcoin, or make about $9.6 million dollars in the first year, assuming, again, difficulty does not greatly spike or prices do not greatly plummet.
The addition of 13 Thash/s will by itself more than double the difficulty. Mining is a game of diminishing returns. When your share of the total network get to large, you mostly compete with yourself. You at least need to take your own hashrate into account when calculating the resulting difficulty, and don't assume all other innovation in mining will stop.
|
Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner. Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010. I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell. See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.plWarning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 25, 2012, 08:43:01 AM Last edit: April 25, 2012, 08:57:40 AM by DiabloD3 |
|
At 1.5m diff and prices north of $5: 54 BTC a day or $270 a day or $98,550 a year. [...] 156 * 85 ghash is 13 thash, or enough to completely secure the cryptographic safety of Bitcoin, or make about $9.6 million dollars in the first year, assuming, again, difficulty does not greatly spike or prices do not greatly plummet.
The addition of 13 Thash/s will by itself more than double the difficulty. Mining is a game of diminishing returns. When your share of the total network get to large, you mostly compete with yourself. You at least need to take your own hashrate into account when calculating the resulting difficulty, and don't assume all other innovation in mining will stop. No, I did the math wrong. Its 3.5 thash, not 13.
|
|
|
|
sturle
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
|
|
April 25, 2012, 09:11:01 AM |
|
At 1.5m diff and prices north of $5: 54 BTC a day or $270 a day or $98,550 a year. [...] 156 * 85 ghash is 13 thash, or enough to completely secure the cryptographic safety of Bitcoin, or make about $9.6 million dollars in the first year, assuming, again, difficulty does not greatly spike or prices do not greatly plummet.
The addition of 13 Thash/s will by itself more than double the difficulty. Mining is a game of diminishing returns. When your share of the total network get to large, you mostly compete with yourself. You at least need to take your own hashrate into account when calculating the resulting difficulty, and don't assume all other innovation in mining will stop. No, I did the math wrong. Its 3.5 thash, not 13. There are more errors. Your calculations assume 50 BTC per block, and this is going to halve during the first year of operation. If you get started after December 9th or thereabout, your block reward will start at 25 BTC.
|
Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner. Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010. I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell. See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.plWarning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 25, 2012, 09:15:53 AM |
|
At 1.5m diff and prices north of $5: 54 BTC a day or $270 a day or $98,550 a year. [...] 156 * 85 ghash is 13 thash, or enough to completely secure the cryptographic safety of Bitcoin, or make about $9.6 million dollars in the first year, assuming, again, difficulty does not greatly spike or prices do not greatly plummet.
The addition of 13 Thash/s will by itself more than double the difficulty. Mining is a game of diminishing returns. When your share of the total network get to large, you mostly compete with yourself. You at least need to take your own hashrate into account when calculating the resulting difficulty, and don't assume all other innovation in mining will stop. No, I did the math wrong. Its 3.5 thash, not 13. There are more errors. Your calculations assume 50 BTC per block, and this is going to halve during the first year of operation. If you get started after December 9th or thereabout, your block reward will start at 25 BTC. No, I already included a disclaimer for that: I have not factored that in, and I think BTC prices will double because of it.
|
|
|
|
sturle
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
|
|
April 25, 2012, 09:58:50 AM |
|
There are more errors. Your calculations assume 50 BTC per block, and this is going to halve during the first year of operation. If you get started after December 9th or thereabout, your block reward will start at 25 BTC.
No, I already included a disclaimer for that: I have not factored that in, and I think BTC prices will double because of it. You don't want to predict any difficulty increase, but price doubling is assumed? In that case try another calculation. Spend all the USD to buy BTC before the block reward halves, and sell afterwards when the price has doubled. Much more profitable than this mining operation, and less risky because you don't depend on constant difficulty. :-)
|
Sjå https://bitmynt.no for veksling av bitcoin mot norske kroner. Trygt, billig, raskt og enkelt sidan 2010. I buy with EUR and other currencies at a fair market price when you want to sell. See http://bitmynt.no/eurprice.plWarning: "Bitcoin" XT, Classic, Unlimited and the likes are scams. Don't use them, and don't listen to their shills.
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 25, 2012, 11:23:30 AM |
|
There are more errors. Your calculations assume 50 BTC per block, and this is going to halve during the first year of operation. If you get started after December 9th or thereabout, your block reward will start at 25 BTC.
No, I already included a disclaimer for that: I have not factored that in, and I think BTC prices will double because of it. You don't want to predict any difficulty increase, but price doubling is assumed? In that case try another calculation. Spend all the USD to buy BTC before the block reward halves, and sell afterwards when the price has doubled. Much more profitable than this mining operation, and less risky because you don't depend on constant difficulty. :-) Can't predict difficulty, however. I've seen it swing wildly up AND down.
|
|
|
|
highlevelminer
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
|
|
April 25, 2012, 01:35:32 PM |
|
This a very relevant issue for the future of the bitcoin and all its participents. A mining operation of this scale can place a permanent stranglehold on the uprise of the bitcoin's price margin as well as ensure large amounts of coinage do not fall into unscrupulous hands. I will definitely making positive reference to this as well as the BTK lending operation on a vlog I'll be posting today. Great work and stay tuned
|
|
|
|
MPOE-PR
|
|
April 25, 2012, 02:15:06 PM |
|
This has easily been the most entertaining thing I read all week.
|
|
|
|
rjk
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
|
|
April 25, 2012, 02:17:14 PM |
|
This has easily been the most entertaining thing I read all week.
Small minds are easily amused.
|
|
|
|
2weiX
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2058
Merit: 1005
this space intentionally left blank
|
|
April 25, 2012, 06:36:50 PM |
|
noted
|
|
|
|
highlevelminer
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
|
|
April 25, 2012, 06:39:41 PM |
|
Okay here is the link for the promotional video I did on youtube for reputable bitcoin lending operations. I made a few mistakes as to names but I think the general idea was made in a clear and concise manner Here is the link for review:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67446.0
|
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 25, 2012, 06:40:41 PM |
|
|
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
April 27, 2012, 06:04:30 PM |
|
I've updated the plan to further cover green cooling and power generation further.
tl;dr: Reducing operating costs is good, alternate income sources are also good, state and federal incentive programs are good as well.
|
|
|
|
Dusty
|
|
May 01, 2012, 10:02:49 AM |
|
I find this strategy far from optimal, spending so much for FPGA is not wise, with such an amount of money you should develop your own ASIC...?
|
|
|
|
DiabloD3 (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1162
Merit: 1000
DiabloMiner author
|
|
May 01, 2012, 11:38:07 AM |
|
I find this strategy far from optimal, spending so much for FPGA is not wise, with such an amount of money you should develop your own ASIC...?
It would cost about $10 million just to get to the first ASIC run unless you want really shoddy chips and/or SASIC (which isn't particularly much better than FPGA). Plus, shitty ASIC or the best SASIC designs at >=45nm is going to be pretty hard pressed to beat 28nm FPGA at mhash/$ and they'll be in the same ballpark for mhash/watt. So, given that, I'd rather be the first major ASIC customer, and although I'd love for that to be my first gen hardware, I'm not seeing it happen.
|
|
|
|
|