KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2436 blocks

[kano]

...
I would like to use a PPLNS but with our need sometimes to take hashrate down for periods of time the 5nd would hurt, PPS just pays when they are up. It depends on your business model of what pool you go with, I'm sure as expansion happens it would be possible to move some of the more stable miners to a PPLNS.

The 5Nd doesn't hurt, since when you take it down, you still get rewards for 5Nd after you stop mining.

The PPLNS here simply spreads the payout over 5Nd - the 'same payout' as any PPS pool only keeping 0.9% (which doesn't exist)
Of course the total will vary a lot, but long term the total is higher here.

The 5Nd means there's LESS variance here than say on slush PPLNS, when you switch off and on your miners.
However, the higher (luck) variance here is due to the pool size.

A simple way to look at it is, if you drop 100TH for 24 hours, then your payout over 5Nd is expected to total less by 24hours times 100THs, but instead of it dropping for 24Hrs to zero, it reduces the next 5Nd of rewards, so the variance caused by the outage is minimised.

[PassThePopcorn]

...
I would like to use a PPLNS but with our need sometimes to take hashrate down for periods of time the 5nd would hurt, PPS just pays when they are up. It depends on your business model of what pool you go with, I'm sure as expansion happens it would be possible to move some of the more stable miners to a PPLNS.

The 5Nd doesn't hurt, since when you take it down, you still get rewards for 5Nd after you stop mining.

The PPLNS here simply spreads the payout over 5Nd - the 'same payout' as any PPS pool only keeping 0.9% (which doesn't exist)
Of course the total will vary a lot, but long term the total is higher here.

The 5Nd means there's LESS variance here than say on slush PPLNS, when you switch off and on your miners.
However, the higher (luck) variance here is due to the pool size.

A simple way to look at it is, if you drop 100TH for 24 hours, then your payout over 5Nd is expected to total less by 24hours times 100THs, but instead of it dropping for 24Hrs to zero, it reduces the next 5Nd of rewards, so the variance caused by the outage is minimised.

And yes this is correct, however when you talk to an accountant and say "on PPS we will submit this many shares and get this much based on that" and "on PPLNS we might be down during that good luck period and not actually hit full speed during the 5nd" which would they prefer.

In the past week if all machines were put here we wouldn't have hit the total 5nd based on our required up times and based on the luck / blocks found we would have earned less than PPS. I'll see about doing a hash rate split and testing this to see which we earn more on.

[clgrissom3]

...
I would like to use a PPLNS but with our need sometimes to take hashrate down for periods of time the 5nd would hurt, PPS just pays when they are up. It depends on your business model of what pool you go with, I'm sure as expansion happens it would be possible to move some of the more stable miners to a PPLNS.

The 5Nd doesn't hurt, since when you take it down, you still get rewards for 5Nd after you stop mining.

The PPLNS here simply spreads the payout over 5Nd - the 'same payout' as any PPS pool only keeping 0.9% (which doesn't exist)
Of course the total will vary a lot, but long term the total is higher here.

The 5Nd means there's LESS variance here than say on slush PPLNS, when you switch off and on your miners.
However, the higher (luck) variance here is due to the pool size.

A simple way to look at it is, if you drop 100TH for 24 hours, then your payout over 5Nd is expected to total less by 24hours times 100THs, but instead of it dropping for 24Hrs to zero, it reduces the next 5Nd of rewards, so the variance caused by the outage is minimised.

And yes this is correct, however when you talk to an accountant and say "on PPS we will submit this many shares and get this much based on that" and "on PPLNS we might be down during that good luck period and not actually hit full speed during the 5nd" which would they prefer.

In the past week if all machines were put here we wouldn't have hit the total 5nd based on our required up times and based on the luck / blocks found we would have earned less than PPS. I'll see about doing a hash rate split and testing this to see which we earn more on.

1 week? You can't tell anything about any pool in a week. You need a couple of months, preferably a year to see how it pans out. Folks have been doing HR split testing for a long time on Kano and the results are always the same.  You expect every pool to hit 100% over time and the only difference is 1) are transaction fees included, and 2) what fees does the pool charge. With these 2 pieces of info, you can take the results to the bank.

BTW, the KanoPool does include transaction fees and the pool fee is 0.9%.  That is one of the lowest around.

[PassThePopcorn]

...
I would like to use a PPLNS but with our need sometimes to take hashrate down for periods of time the 5nd would hurt, PPS just pays when they are up. It depends on your business model of what pool you go with, I'm sure as expansion happens it would be possible to move some of the more stable miners to a PPLNS.

The 5Nd doesn't hurt, since when you take it down, you still get rewards for 5Nd after you stop mining.

The PPLNS here simply spreads the payout over 5Nd - the 'same payout' as any PPS pool only keeping 0.9% (which doesn't exist)
Of course the total will vary a lot, but long term the total is higher here.

The 5Nd means there's LESS variance here than say on slush PPLNS, when you switch off and on your miners.
However, the higher (luck) variance here is due to the pool size.

A simple way to look at it is, if you drop 100TH for 24 hours, then your payout over 5Nd is expected to total less by 24hours times 100THs, but instead of it dropping for 24Hrs to zero, it reduces the next 5Nd of rewards, so the variance caused by the outage is minimised.

And yes this is correct, however when you talk to an accountant and say "on PPS we will submit this many shares and get this much based on that" and "on PPLNS we might be down during that good luck period and not actually hit full speed during the 5nd" which would they prefer.

In the past week if all machines were put here we wouldn't have hit the total 5nd based on our required up times and based on the luck / blocks found we would have earned less than PPS. I'll see about doing a hash rate split and testing this to see which we earn more on.

1 week? You can't tell anything about any pool in a week. You need a couple of months, preferably a year to see how it pans out. Folks have been doing HR split testing for a long time on Kano and the results are always the same.  You expect every pool to hit 100% over time and the only difference is 1) are transaction fees included, and 2) what fees does the pool charge. With these 2 pieces of info, you can take the results to the bank.

BTW, the KanoPool does include transaction fees and the pool fee is 0.9%.  That is one of the lowest around.

I've used kano's pool many years ago, the issue is variance consistency (this being how much is expected to be paid at the end of the week), no blocks = no BTC. While yes in the long run it all equals out, but in the month to month when bills need to be paid and hashrate is up and down you want stability a I will get this much on this day. I wasn't saying only a week for testing but that a test might be done.
The pool charges about 2% so 1.1% more than here. Can you calculate how much would be earned in the past month per PH, if 100% and 80% up time was assumed?

[MoparMiningLLC]

I've used kano's pool many years ago, the issue is variance consistency (this being how much is expected to be paid at the end of the week), no blocks = no BTC. While yes in the long run it all equals out, but in the month to month when bills need to be paid and hashrate is up and down you want stability a I will get this much on this day. I wasn't saying only a week for testing but that a test might be done.
The pool charges about 2% so 1.1% more than here. Can you calculate how much would be earned in the past month per PH, if 100% and 80% up time was assumed?

i believe their point is that when it is making money, you are supposed to hold a portion of that money in reserves so that it covers the time when it is not making money at all or at a lower profit.

[Artemis3]

...
I would like to use a PPLNS but with our need sometimes to take hashrate down for periods of time the 5nd would hurt, PPS just pays when they are up. It depends on your business model of what pool you go with, I'm sure as expansion happens it would be possible to move some of the more stable miners to a PPLNS.

The 5Nd doesn't hurt, since when you take it down, you still get rewards for 5Nd after you stop mining.

The PPLNS here simply spreads the payout over 5Nd - the 'same payout' as any PPS pool only keeping 0.9% (which doesn't exist)
Of course the total will vary a lot, but long term the total is higher here.

The 5Nd means there's LESS variance here than say on slush PPLNS, when you switch off and on your miners.
However, the higher (luck) variance here is due to the pool size.

A simple way to look at it is, if you drop 100TH for 24 hours, then your payout over 5Nd is expected to total less by 24hours times 100THs, but instead of it dropping for 24Hrs to zero, it reduces the next 5Nd of rewards, so the variance caused by the outage is minimised.

And yes this is correct, however when you talk to an accountant and say "on PPS we will submit this many shares and get this much based on that" and "on PPLNS we might be down during that good luck period and not actually hit full speed during the 5nd" which would they prefer.

In the past week if all machines were put here we wouldn't have hit the total 5nd based on our required up times and based on the luck / blocks found we would have earned less than PPS. I'll see about doing a hash rate split and testing this to see which we earn more on.

Your problem is time. If you do this for a one or two year period, you will quickly find out you were earning less ₿ using PPS. If this pool had a much higher hashrate you could evaluate this in months or even weeks (if it reached exahash levels). This is the irony that the whale miners don't get, by using PPS in the larger pools they are earning about 4% less, and they could reduce that by moving into the pplns pool.

If you do have 1 EH at your disposal, go ahead and test for a month or so...

As for the 5nd, again its time. You are always earning the same, but instead of having sudden zero to full earnings, you get a gentle slope. Its all designed for you to stay longer. Stay long and you will reap the benefits, pool hoppers lose more. That is why you can't see the results in 1 day or 1 week. Think of it as inertial momentum from a flywheel thats gets power from electricity, disconnect it and it won't stop immediately. But to start it from zero takes time as its heavy to move...

[MoparMiningLLC]

if they have 1 EH and brought it here, my guess is ramp up would not be very long and hmm I bet we would find blocks a lot more often with that much hash.

[VRobb]

A quick back of the napkin calculation of 1EH total pool hashrate gives me a full 5ND ramp of just 37.9 hours at current diff. 

[MoparMiningLLC]

sadly, 4 of my miners will be offline this week and I will be left with one T15 here until I can source some new miners, which hopefully will not be that long.

[Steamtyme]

A quick back of the napkin calculation of 1EH total pool hashrate gives me a full 5ND ramp of just 37.9 hours at current diff. 

I was just checking the same. Not to mention the other added benefits:

- Pool fees would drop to .5% once we get consistently over 400PH (I would think this is huge to a large miner)
- Still eligible to earn the BTC available from the giveaway in the pool OP
- They still earn from all the blocks found during their ramp up and subsequent ramp down if they left in the future.

[MoparMiningLLC]

A quick back of the napkin calculation of 1EH total pool hashrate gives me a full 5ND ramp of just 37.9 hours at current diff. 

I was just checking the same. Not to mention the other added benefits:

- Pool fees would drop to .5% once we get consistently over 400PH (I would think this is huge to a large miner)
- Still eligible to earn the BTC available from the giveaway in the pool OP
- They still earn from all the blocks found during their ramp up and subsequent ramp down if they left in the future.

wait, the pool fee drops? by almost 45% - nice!!! I was not aware of this.

[Steamtyme]

Yeah I can't remember where maybe the discord Kano had mentioned if we got over 400 PH consistently the pool fees would drop. I think there is a good percentage of that 400 waiting for either the pool to grow close enough, or for another large player to show up before they come over.

Either way that combined with the fact that all block and miner rewards are shared with the pool should be enough to convince 1EH to mine here if they aren't mining solo. Low fees and total rewards being shared how can you go wrong

sadly, 4 of my miners will be offline this week and I will be left with one T15 here until I can source some new miners, which hopefully will not be that long.

Damn that sucks. I'm down to 2 M10's right now because I forgot I needed a power cable before the garage season arrived. Oh well a few more days and it'll be back online.

What are you thinking of grabbing for gear?

[MoparMiningLLC]

Damn that sucks. I'm down to 2 M10's right now because I forgot I needed a power cable before the garage season arrived. Oh well a few more days and it'll be back online.

What are you thinking of grabbing for gear?

I would like to get some S17's or T17's but would settle for T15's or S15's as their price is a bit cheaper so should make roi faster even if overall less hash rate and less btc. but still a huge upgrade over the S9's

I still have 15 S9's that I will eventually phase out as well. Just gotta go with what the profits allow which a lot less now than a year ago. Just glad I racked up some profits then.

[Artemis3]

if they have 1 EH and brought it here, my guess is ramp up would not be very long and hmm I bet we would find blocks a lot more often with that much hash.

Thats easy, using Kano's calculator 1EH (1000PH) it shows:

	Pool Average Time per Block:	27286.475sec
	=	7hr 34min 46sec
	Pool Average Blocks per Day:	3.1664 blocks
	=	39.58004856 BTC + t2

Wouldn't we all love getting paid 3 times a day? Who needs pps pools with that... But oh, how fool the whale miners are...

[Hannu]

RIP AntMiner S5 Hope I get back soon KanoPool 

[clgrissom3]

Block by 16vV8!

This is our 1st of BLOCK WEDNESDAY!

[Biodom]

Block by 16vV8!

This is our 1st of BLOCK WEDNESDAY!

It looks like large miners are using PPLNS scheme timing to get more (or get a bonus).
I don't know what their game here is.

[kano]

Yeah I can't remember where maybe the discord Kano had mentioned if we got over 400 PH consistently the pool fees would drop. I think there is a good percentage of that 400 waiting for either the pool to grow close enough, or for another large player to show up before they come over.

Yep, I've mentioned it a few times over the past year - if we can get the 5Nd over 400PHs I'll drop the fees to 0.5%

Either way that combined with the fact that all block and miner rewards are shared with the pool should be enough to convince 1EH to mine here if they aren't mining solo. Low fees and total rewards being shared how can you go wrong
...

Well the main problem with some 1EH miners is that they are locked into the pool with the higher fees they pay.
Others have no idea what they are doing and just mine wherever they were told to mine at the start.

A few seem to want to start their own pool but they clearly don't realise that the costs they pay to do that are higher than mining here also, and the result is less reliable also.
The cost here for a 1EH miner (since the fee would be 0.5%) would effectively be 5PH

I can't remember who, but someone also said that there's a trust issue, but that's actually a complete misunderstanding of the situation they are in.
They have to trust everyone who runs their pool for them. In the case of this pool, it's blatantly clear what's happening with the data I provide.
In the case of their own pool they have to trust some other 3rd party who runs it for them ... so I don't really see the issue ...

Anyway, that's the way it is.

[MoparMiningLLC]

woohoo a block! first one of May! I hope we get a few more before I shut the miners down, will be either no later than Friday.

[Artemis3]

Block by 16vV8!

This is our 1st of BLOCK WEDNESDAY!

It looks like large miners are using PPLNS scheme timing to get more (or get a bonus).
I don't know what their game here is.

They think they are "gaming it", but they are losing more than simply always staying on the pool due to ignorance, lack of management, or both.