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[aideed]

@mimk97

HELP -> PAYOUTS from Kano.is

PPLNS acts like the reward 'ramps up' when you first start mining. What actually happens?

The 5Nd means it takes that long to reward your shares.
The ramp isn't missing rewards, it's delaying them to reduce variance.
Each share is rewarded in all the blocks found in the 5Nd after the share.
That's simply how it reduces variance. Each share's reward is averaged out over the 5Nd after it.

AerialGopher, see above.

Also, look at the column in your post that says YOUR N AVG.  You still have a few more days for 5nd.

edit: add calculator link: http://tradebtc.net/bitcalc.php

[noquedaeltiempo]

I hate to beat the dead horse...  But I am wondering when I see this line

BLOCK    BLOCK UTC      MINER REWARD   N DIFF  N RANGE        POOL N AVG   YOUR %    YOUR N DIFF   YOUR N AVG   YOUR BTC
500096  19/Dec 08:02   16.86483522       9.379T 431hr 40m 3s  25.92PHs         0.03%     2.411G            6.66THs         0.00433448


So I see that .00433448 as a payment in the payments.
When I do the math .03%  (.0003 x 16.71305170302) I get   0.005013915510906      ( the 16.71305170302 was after the .9% for Kano)

So I have two questions, 1. Why is my math different?  2.  If this is my payment for this block after it is confirmed for this time, am I to expect the same amount 4 more times as payments included with then next found blocks ( Hopefully 1 more today! :-)

ie, a total of 5x .00433448 = .0216724 ?    Still wonder why I get the slightly higher amount when I do the math.

I know its been asked a million times but I have never seen a real word example, and hopefully someone else can benefit when its shown with real numbers.

FYI This was with 1 S9 14TH/s from Sunday Dec 10 until Dec 19 When this block was found.

Thanks!

If I'm not mistaken, the YOUR % number in the rewards page is roundup, the actual number should be lower. That's why you are getting a slighty higher amount in your calculation.

[AerialGopher]

I hate to beat the dead horse...  But I am wondering when I see this line

BLOCK    BLOCK UTC      MINER REWARD   N DIFF  N RANGE        POOL N AVG   YOUR %    YOUR N DIFF   YOUR N AVG   YOUR BTC
500096  19/Dec 08:02   16.86483522       9.379T 431hr 40m 3s  25.92PHs         0.03%     2.411G            6.66THs         0.00433448


So I see that .00433448 as a payment in the payments.
When I do the math .03%  (.0003 x 16.71305170302) I get   0.005013915510906      ( the 16.71305170302 was after the .9% for Kano)

So I have two questions, 1. Why is my math different?  2.  If this is my payment for this block after it is confirmed for this time, am I to expect the same amount 4 more times as payments included with then next found blocks ( Hopefully 1 more today! :-)

ie, a total of 5x .00433448 = .0216724 ?    Still wonder why I get the slightly higher amount when I do the math.

I know its been asked a million times but I have never seen a real word example, and hopefully someone else can benefit when its shown with real numbers.

FYI This was with 1 S9 14TH/s from Sunday Dec 10 until Dec 19 When this block was found.

Thanks!

If I'm not mistaken, the YOUR % number in the rewards page is roundup, the actual number should be lower. That's why you are getting a slighty higher amount in your calculation.

Ahh  The good ol Excel issue where it didn't have enough decimal positions so it rounded.   So its like .029??  something I guess. Ok,   Maybe Kano could add another couple decimal places in that field?

I am still confused about the 5Nd thing, I read it I understand it, but I cant comprehend it I guess.  Best I can figure is that I will get a total of 5 payments like the one I will get today, and only when the next block is found I get another 1/5 of this first block reward...  Or did I miss it all together.   I can see why people shy away from this :-)   I was never good at math... I just know how to plug in the S9 and configure it.... then wait for the Cha-ching!

[mimk97]

I don´t get it, sorry
It´s too high for me...

500096   19/Dec 08:02   16.86483522   9.379T   431hr 40m 3s   25.92PHs   0.07%   6.821G   18.85THs   0.01226437

[Waztim]

I don´t get it, sorry
It´s too high for me...

500096   19/Dec 08:02   16.86483522   9.379T   431hr 40m 3s   25.92PHs   0.07%   6.821G   18.85THs   0.01226437

Kano Pool Does it again. That is a BIG FAT BLOCK!!! MINE ON!!

[mimk97]

So could someone explain me this for Dummy´s?

Block   Block UTC   Miner Reward   N Diff   N Range   Pool N Avg   Your %   Your N Diff   Your N Avg   Your BTC
500096   19/Dec 08:02   16.86483522   9.379T   431hr 40m 3s   25.92PHs   0.07%   6.821G   18.85THs   0.01226437

Will I get another payout?
5 x 0,01226437 ?

[Vertflyer]

I’m still new but this is how I think you can estimate your fully ramped daily payout from this payout assuming we average 100% luck going forward, which is a block every 3.3 days.

(Payout this block)*(16.5)/(days you’ve mined in the past 16.5 days)/3.3

Make sure you count your days mined as exact as possible through to when this last block was found last night.

Caveat, I am not sure if this formula works if this has been your second or more block since starting here, but I think it would.

This is your payout will be after mining 16.5 days. The difference between what you got and your calculated max you will eventually get later when you stop mining here. But just don’t stop.

[AerialGopher]

I’m still new but this is how I think you can estimate your fully ramped daily payout from this payout assuming we average 100% luck going forward, which is a block every 3.3 days.

(Payout this block)*(16.5)/(days you’ve mined in the past 16.5 days)/3.3

Make sure you count your days mined as exact as possible through to when this last block was found last night.

Caveat, I am not sure if this formula works if this has been your second or more block since starting here, but I think it would.

This is your payout will be after mining 16.5 days. The difference between what you got and your calculated max you will eventually get later when you stop mining here. But just don’t stop.

We understand that if you didn't mine from immediately after a block was found that you only get a portion for the time that was actually mined, Ie, 9 of the 16.5 days or whatever it is.   This is not what we are asking.  We received a payment, or waiting for the 101 confirmations.  If we continue to mine until the next block is found 100% of the time, will we be paid the same as today for this block today, on the next block find  PLUS whatever the payout will be for that second block, IE are we getting only 20 % now of this block rewarded today, and then when 5 blocks are found and we mined for the entire duration as those 5 were found, we would be getting paid the last 1/5 of this block today, when the 5th block has been found.  That's all we ask, I get it that better than 100% luck or less will affect it a little bit.

Please If you can explain it without bringing up some other calculation like the amount of days mined and a way to figure it out, then don't.  The math and explanation should be really simple, its just when its not being explained in a clear concise way, it confuses people more.  That is why so many people are asking, but the last bunch of posts have been more confusing than the  HELP > Payouts page  :-)

[os2sam]

This is not what we are asking.  We received a payment, or waiting for the 101 confirmations.  If we continue to mine until the next block is found 100% of the time, will we be paid the same as today for this block today

If you have not yet reached your 5Nd, which means have shares in ALL open shifts, then the next block you should be closer to populating shares in more shifts so your next payout should be larger.  When you have all open shifts populated with shares and maintain that level you will get full payouts which should be roughly equal to and maybe higher than Pay Per Share, depending on luck.  When you stop mining you continue to receive payouts when a block is found on the ramp down until all open shifts are empty.

[AerialGopher]

This is not what we are asking.  We received a payment, or waiting for the 101 confirmations.  If we continue to mine until the next block is found 100% of the time, will we be paid the same as today for this block today

If you have not yet reached your 5Nd, which means have shares in ALL open shifts, then the next block you should be closer to populating shares in more shifts so your next payout should be larger.  When you have all open shifts populated with shares and maintain that level you will get full payouts which should be roughly equal to and maybe higher than Pay Per Share, depending on luck.  When you stop mining you continue to receive payouts when a block is found on the ramp down until all open shifts are empty.

Is this "
So, what's the 5Nd value?

The current Bitcoin network value for Nd is 1,873,105,475,221.6 and thus 5Nd is 9,365,527,376,108.0


The pool hash rate for the last day is roughly 28.33PHs which means the 5Nd 'ramp' is roughly 16days 10hrs

This is updated obviously,  So are these numbers, SPECIFICALLY the 16 days 10 hours is specific to ME because I have my 1 S9 at that is how long it will take to Hash 9,365,527,376,108.0 hashes?
So if I had double the hash power, that would change to about 8 days 5 hours?


So If I Get this right.... my percentage of contributions to this was that .03% of what the entire pool did up until the point in which the block was found?


My Head hurts. I'm going to sleep. Maybe I will figure it out as I sleep..

[luxMiner]

is there any place I can look up my current N Average?
Thanks!

[-EOS-]

Its a good morning when you wake up to see a block found!!!

[os2sam]

So, what's the 5Nd value?

The current Bitcoin network value for Nd is 1,873,105,475,221.6 and thus 5Nd is 9,365,527,376,108.0

Yes 5Nd is a mathematical expression which is (5 X Network difficulty).  That is how long shifts are open.

That way it is extremely unlikely that a share will go through the entire 5Nd and not get paid, possible but unlikely.

[AerialGopher]

So, what's the 5Nd value?

The current Bitcoin network value for Nd is 1,873,105,475,221.6 and thus 5Nd is 9,365,527,376,108.0

Yes 5Nd is a mathematical expression which is (5 X Network difficulty).  That is how long shifts are open.

That way it is extremely unlikely that a share will go through the entire 5Nd and not get paid, possible but unlikely.

I guess my brain cannot connect the terms used like  " This is how long shifts are open"    9,365,527,376,108  ?  WHat?  Seconds, Hours minutes?  The reference everyone makes is to "time" on how long they are open, but I cannot seem to make this compute in my head.  so 9,365,527,376,108 is not seconds or minutes.

Is it 9,365,527,376,108 shares?

I know how the number itself is derived ie 5 x Network difficulty, But what units is it?   Shares seems to be the only reasonable unit this can be.

[minergain.com]

So my site has been grabbing 5 minute detailed info for a few pools in my upcoming minergain site but dont have the info live yet.   Eventually this data can use your real miner data to do "what if scenarios - even though luck is luck".  So all this got me wondering so I thought I would share some real comparison info...  So if you were with slush for December, here would be your btc per Th that your miners submitted....
      
Total: 0.003702629 per Th/s.  

So if you have an S9 like me with 13.5Th/s, that is .0499854915 BTC for the month (assuming fully "vested" in the PPNLS).  As I have mentioned before, the 5 blocks found on Kano (even with the current 8 day delay) is .04509834.  If we got another block today, it would be roughly .054 BTC for the month.  And if we picked off another one tomorrow, it would be roughly .063 BTC.  So yes, there is a little more gambling here, but the potential upside is way more than the sites that give lots of blocks per day...  And isn't that really why we are all in this "business" - gambling?  That is exactly why I moved to Kano from Slush after just one month with them...  I can afford a little electricity if needed, but with that said, my full power bill was paid by the 3rd of this month...  I also purchase coins on the exchanges, and this is a much smaller investment per BTC - just slower.  Anyway, just to give a little perspective for the newbies (me included).

So this block officially puts me at .05392541 for the month with one S9 (.00399447 per Th) which is .0002104 BTC / day / Th.  That pushes Kano ahead of slush for the month by 7.31% and gives us around 4.5 days breathing room - meaning that if we find another block before 5 days we push the gain even further.  Mine on and congrats koelby.

[Newko]

Thank you, Koelby, for the block! Nice work!  
So after all that agonizing by some of the new miners, that block was under 300% difficulty, our luck for Dec is still almost 93%, and our PAPPS is over 110%  

Moral of the story: Patience my new fellow miners, this is still and we always be the best and most profitable place to mine.  mine on!

[Newko]

Happy Holidays Sonny and Elaine!
Happy Holidays to all my fellow miners!
and of course...Happy Holidays Kano-San!

[AerialGopher]

So my site has been grabbing 5 minute detailed info for a few pools in my upcoming minergain site but dont have the info live yet.   Eventually this data can use your real miner data to do "what if scenarios - even though luck is luck".  So all this got me wondering so I thought I would share some real comparison info...  So if you were with slush for December, here would be your btc per Th that your miners submitted....
      
Total: 0.003702629 per Th/s.  

So if you have an S9 like me with 13.5Th/s, that is .0499854915 BTC for the month (assuming fully "vested" in the PPNLS).  As I have mentioned before, the 5 blocks found on Kano (even with the current 8 day delay) is .04509834.  If we got another block today, it would be roughly .054 BTC for the month.  And if we picked off another one tomorrow, it would be roughly .063 BTC.  So yes, there is a little more gambling here, but the potential upside is way more than the sites that give lots of blocks per day...  And isn't that really why we are all in this "business" - gambling?  That is exactly why I moved to Kano from Slush after just one month with them...  I can afford a little electricity if needed, but with that said, my full power bill was paid by the 3rd of this month...  I also purchase coins on the exchanges, and this is a much smaller investment per BTC - just slower.  Anyway, just to give a little perspective for the newbies (me included).

So this block officially puts me at .05392541 for the month with one S9 (.00399447 per Th) which is .0002104 BTC / day / Th.  That pushes Kano ahead of slush for the month by 7.31% and gives us around 4.5 days breathing room - meaning that if we find another block before 5 days we push the gain even further.  Mine on and congrats koelby.

When you say " For the Month" are you meaning December 1 til now or for the last 30 days?

[kano]

...
Ahh  The good ol Excel issue where it didn't have enough decimal positions so it rounded.   So its like .029??  something I guess. Ok,   Maybe Kano could add another couple decimal places in that field?

I am still confused about the 5Nd thing, I read it I understand it, but I cant comprehend it I guess.  Best I can figure is that I will get a total of 5 payments like the one I will get today, and only when the next block is found I get another 1/5 of this first block reward...  Or did I miss it all together.   I can see why people shy away from this :-)   I was never good at math... I just know how to plug in the S9 and configure it.... then wait for the Cha-ching!

There's no need for the extra decimal places since it's just an (unnecessary) number calculated from others there.

Two somewhat more accurate numbers are listed there:
Pool: 9.379T You: 2.411G - so you can work out your % to a few more places if you want: You / Pool
But since Pool is 12 decimal places and You is 9 decimal places - I'm not gonna bother showing them to full accuracy.
It's close enough

If you want the exact % then divide "Your BTC" / "Miner Reward"

[kano]

is there any place I can look up my current N Average?
Thanks!

No.
It calculates it for everyone when a block is processed - but that takes a few seconds, so I don't calculate it at any other time.
The main problem is that it changes (currently) about 780 times a second and more often when the pool is bigger, so you'd have to recalculate it every time it's displayed, for it to be accurate.