KanoPool since 2014 🐈 - PPLNS and Solo 0.5% fee - Worldwide - 2438 blocks

[Raymond_B]

Guys I have a $420.00 Bitmain coupon that sadly I am not going to be able to use.

So Kano users get 1st shot, I paid 100$ for it I will take $100 for it. No problem to use escrow.

[BSGMiner]

I have not been active on the Bitcointalk in over a year and I see the conversation about PPLNS is still going strong.  

Actually, it just started this morning. Before that it was all chicken and dancing!

Mine on!

[dutchlincoln]

Guys I have a $420.00 Bitmain coupon that sadly I am not going to be able to use.

So Kano users get 1st shot, I paid 100$ for it I will take $100 for it. No problem to use escrow.

dont want to be a party pooper,but im afraid you are too late... Especially if you even want (a lot of) money for it...

[ultimul]

4th block in a row over 160% . . . .
something is wrong here

[kano]

4th block in a row over 160% . . . .
something is wrong here

The probability of the found blocks is shown clearly on the Blocks page.

The probability of the luck of the last 5 found blocks is ... as it says ... CDF[Erl] 0.7670
Which means ... 1/(1-0.7670) = 1 in 4.292 of that happening or since it's 5 blocks, 1 in 21.46 blocks of that happening.
So yep, if you look at any pool out there what doesn't hide their block history, you'll find the current 5 found block luck happen, on average, about every 22 blocks.

After we find the next block, it will again show the numbers.
We'll see what it is when we find the next block.

probably will be little over 200%

It was 141.334%

[BSGMiner]

4th block in a row over 160% . . . .
something is wrong here

"9 blocks this month under 100%....
something is wrong here"

(...said no one ever!)

MINE ON WITH KANO-SAN!!!

[clgrissom3]

4th block in a row over 160% . . . .
something is wrong here

It's called bitcoin mining...completely normal.  All the green blocks this month must not mean anything to you.

Nothing to see here...

[joshuar87]

Hi there,

I run about 50 S9's with profit switching using awesome miner. I am trying to wrap my head around PPLNS though. Is every share you commit to the pool paid out or are you only paid out if you are currently mining towards the pool when a block is found?

Also with regards to shifts. Does it matter what time length the miners spend on the pool? I.e. if they switch between 30 minutes or 1.5 hours?

Thanks

Any share submitted in the last 5Nd when we find a block, gets a reward.
You don't have to be mining at the time the block is found, only you have to have shares in the range before the block was found:
What this means is that (as stated on the page linked in the previous post) when we find a block, KDB counts back all shares submitted until it has counted the equivalent value of 5 'expected' blocks worth of shares.

So as diff is currently about 5 bazillion, when we find the next block, all the previous 25 bazillion worth of shares will be included in the reward.
This also means that each share gets about 1/5 of it's PPS value.
But since we include 25 bazillion each time a block is found, then on average each share gets rewarded 5 times so is expected to average to get 5/5 of it's PPS.

Of course if you want it more accurate, you should replace '5 Bazillion' with 5,077,499,034,879.0 and '25 Bazillion' with 25,387,495,174,395.0
Of course there's no point saying  5 Trillion, since Trillion is not an SI unit, and it differs in some countries.
T in TH does NOT stand for 'Trillion' it stands for the SI unit 'Terra' meaning 10^12
So you could say something like: 5 and 25 TerraDiff worth of shares

Now if you are mining 50% of the time, what you will end up expecting to get is a reward for 50% of your hash rate, of course.
Also, like on any non-PPS pool, if you don't mine all the time, you will get higher variance than the normal pool variance.

Now one more thing to add - price switching is a fallacy.
You don't get the price at the time you switch, you get the price some time a day or more later when you finally get and convert the mined 'other' coin ... less the extra fees to convert that 'other' coin vs the price and fees to convert BTC

Ah just saw this. Thanks, understood. Now obviously the next question... You think there is no value in profit switching S9's e.g. between Nicehash, zpool and kano? Or is the pool operator the wrong person to be asking this question to

[clgrissom3]

...

Ah just saw this. Thanks, understood. Now obviously the next question... You think there is no value in profit switching S9's e.g. between Nicehash, zpool and kano? Or is the pool operator the wrong person to be asking this question to

The problem with profit switching is the switch is based on past performance, even if it's a few seconds in the past.  No one or no thing can predict what will happen in the future.  So what ends up happening is you chase the potential of making extra profit by switching and you rarely hit it.  Over the long haul you would have been better off sticking with one or the other based on the statistics of expected performance.  The real question to ask yourself is "why am I trying to game the system"?  Pick something based on statistical expected values (minus fees) and stick with it.  You'll do much better in the long run that way.

Here is a calculator that can help...there are others out there as well... http://tradebtc.net/bitcalc.php

[Biodom]

somewhat lower luck and btc price dynamics this month brought me into the minus territory.
what's the kano miners overall situation, if i may ask?

[minergain.com]

somewhat lower luck and btc price dynamics this month brought me into the minus territory.
what's the kano miners overall situation, if i may ask?

According to my minergain account with a single S9, based on the prices that the block was found, I made $114 which currently is worth $97 since I am HODL.  My power is .124 per kw, so just under $140 to power it for the month.  So yes, a bit of a loss.  The crazy part is that I just bought and installed 2 more S9's for way less then my first S9 since there are so many coupons going around from bm and they delivered it in a little over a week.  I have bought btc straight out and had more of a loss on that so far.  So it really is whether you believe in the long term opportunity of BTC and whether you can pay for your power and HODL.

[dkincaid]

somewhat lower luck and btc price dynamics this month brought me into the minus territory.
what's the kano miners overall situation, if i may ask?

Same here, although only slightly negative. As I mentioned before on here I'm treating this as an investment so I'm not too terribly concerned about it as long as it doesn't go too negative.

However, there is anothing thing with the big network difficulty increase and the dropping BTC price on the exchanges to consider. it is at the point where I would get the same amount of BTC if I shut down my miners and spent the money I would have spent on electricity to just buy BTC on an exchange. My electricity costs are on the high end of what is practical so others probably have more room still. For now, I'm still mining and counting on the BTC price to start rising again soon.

[dutchlincoln]

4th block in a row over 160% . . . .
something is wrong here

The probability of the found blocks is shown clearly on the Blocks page.

The probability of the luck of the last 5 found blocks is ... as it says ... CDF[Erl] 0.7670
Which means ... 1/(1-0.7670) = 1 in 4.292 of that happening or since it's 5 blocks, 1 in 21.46 blocks of that happening.
So yep, if you look at any pool out there what doesn't hide their block history, you'll find the current 5 found block luck happen, on average, about every 22 blocks.

After we find the next block, it will again show the numbers.
We'll see what it is when we find the next block.

probably will be little over 200%

It was 141.334%

so... If i understand correct, there is a sort of system in it, and not just pure luck?

[clgrissom3]

somewhat lower luck and btc price dynamics this month brought me into the minus territory.
what's the kano miners overall situation, if i may ask?

According to my minergain account with a single S9, based on the prices that the block was found, I made $114 which currently is worth $97 since I am HODL.  My power is .124 per kw, so just under $140 to power it for the month.  So yes, a bit of a loss.  The crazy part is that I just bought and installed 2 more S9's for way less then my first S9 since there are so many coupons going around from bm and they delivered it in a little over a week.  I have bought btc straight out and had more of a loss on that so far.  So it really is whether you believe in the long term opportunity of BTC and whether you can pay for your power and HODL.

I guess it depends on each person's situation...for me my total daily cost for all of my 20 machines is $61.04 (fixed fees) and based on today's spot price I have averaged $72.96 per day so far this month.  So I'm slight ahead for June and I was way ahead in May.

However I don't pay much attention to that...I fortunately hit my lifetime breakeven point in September 2017 (incorrectly referred to as ROI by most miners) and thanks to some timely BTC sells I made in November and December of last year, I am about $32K in the positive lifetime after the $48K I spent earlier this year to upgrade all of my older S7s/A721s and for a years worth of host fees for all of my machines.  It's the long term picture I pay attention to...

[ccgllc]

Ah just saw this. Thanks, understood. Now obviously the next question... You think there is no value in profit switching S9's e.g. between Nicehash, zpool and kano? Or is the pool operator the wrong person to be asking this question to

Let me respond slightly differently:

Every "profit switching" pool I know of (and I helped support one for a few years) basically looks at the current exchange rate and coin difficulty to determine which is the most profitable at the time.  What they CAN NOT do is predict what will be the most profitable at the time any found block is matured enough to sell the proceeds.  Using Bitcoin as an example, if you find a block you can not spend that block for an additional 100 confirms.  At 10 minutes each that is about 16.7 hours into the future.  Sites like http://fork.lol will help you visualize this - pick any point on that graph, then look 17 or so hours into the future to see if it was right...

What is worse, especially for alt coins, is that few, if any, profit switching pools look at the order depth for the coin.  Thus a coin may LOOK more profitable, but if you attempted to sell a block rewards worth, you might flood the marketspace.  Hang out on an exchange like Poloniex sometime and see just how shallow most market spaces are.

So to be really accurate, you would need TWO crystal balls that can tell the future...  shy of that, your just guessing.  How does the saying go?  "Past performance is not indicitive of future results".  Required wording on all financial statements in the USA.

[Biodom]

somewhat lower luck and btc price dynamics this month brought me into the minus territory.
what's the kano miners overall situation, if i may ask?

According to my minergain account with a single S9, based on the prices that the block was found, I made $114 which currently is worth $97 since I am HODL.  My power is .124 per kw, so just under $140 to power it for the month.  So yes, a bit of a loss.  The crazy part is that I just bought and installed 2 more S9's for way less then my first S9 since there are so many coupons going around from bm and they delivered it in a little over a week.  I have bought btc straight out and had more of a loss on that so far.  So it really is whether you believe in the long term opportunity of BTC and whether you can pay for your power and HODL.

I guess it depends on each person's situation...for me my total daily cost for all of my 20 machines is $61.04 (fixed fees) and based on today's spot price I have averaged $72.96 per day so far this month.  So I'm slight ahead for June and I was way ahead in May.

However I don't pay much attention to that...I fortunately hit my lifetime breakeven point in September 2017 (incorrectly referred to as ROI by most miners) and thanks to some timely BTC sells I made in November and December of last year, I am about $32K in the positive lifetime after the $48K I spent earlier this year to upgrade all of my older S7s/A721s and for a years worth of host fees for all of my machines.  It's the long term picture I pay attention to...

I guess that it is nice to have fixed hosting fees, no matter if you are running a 11.85th or a 14th machine
My somewhat older models got about $30-40 less in btc than electricity cost.
This is, of course, just a beginning and I don't care about a small loss.
At some point, though, it might become easier to just buy btc, which would be detrimental to the network since work will be concentrating even more in lower cost areas like China.

[Raymond_B]

Guys I have a $420.00 Bitmain coupon that sadly I am not going to be able to use.

So Kano users get 1st shot, I paid 100$ for it I will take $100 for it. No problem to use escrow.

Coupon has been sold to a Kano member who put it to good use

[clgrissom3]

I guess that it is nice to have fixed hosting fees, no matter if you are running a 11.85th or a 14th machine
My somewhat older models got about $30-40 less in btc than electricity cost.
This is, of course, just a beginning and I don't care about a small loss.
At some point, though, it might become easier to just buy btc, which would be detrimental to the network since work will be concentrating even more in lower cost areas like China.

Actually it's fixed per kW of measured power use so it's fixed to me unless they raise or lower the hosting fees and it's only gone down a couple of times in the past 4 years.  Each machine pulls a different amount of power but I just look at the total cost per year and divide by 365 to get my total daily cost.

You are right about switching to buying BTC in general but I always try to buy some on the big dips anyway.  That has worked out well for the most part.

EDIT:  I guess we all will be in that boat where our profits will eventually turn negative and we have to decide how long to operate that way...unless the price of BTC jumps back up

[overcon]

Another exchange hacked. You would think that all the money they made last year these companies would hire security experts to constantly try and hack into their system; instead of finding out the hard way by someone else.

Sad Panda

[Shazam!!!]

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