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Author Topic: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 201648 times)
aq
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May 24, 2012, 08:47:14 AM
 #1241

If you get the consent to publish both in full please do. Realise that "cherry picking" though through a partial log might not be a smart long term strategy.

I have browsed through both. I have not responded you in the group. It's just a few consecutive complaints of you about my wrong-doing.

I received some advise from other people too, but the "advise" is irrelevant here.

We'll never have permission to post the group chat most likely. And you don't give me the permission to post the private chat. The private chat starts with a greeting and was never continued after the day. It's not partial log.

So the only person can shed some light on this all and is not bound by some NDA and has/had access to all the information is the very hacker. IIRC he has/had access to Patrick computer or at least his emails. Maybe we can convince him to publish Patricks email database. I am pretty sure he copied all of them, hackers usually do this.

BTW, am I the only one that feels a little strange that apparently Patrick does the claim thing alone? The very person that shared this computer with the hacker. Now I should send him all of private data?
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May 24, 2012, 08:49:54 AM
 #1242

...
I dread the moment any of my servers get compromised some day, for the first time.


If the person is good you'll probably never even know he was (or is) there.  That is unless you (or yours) are very very good.


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May 24, 2012, 08:51:10 AM
 #1243

LOL, Zhou is running a pro PR campain here (and winning this little PR war). Bravo! Something to learn for many parties involved.



Helps when you have truth, goodwill and honesty on your side:)

Indeed! If he does not have non-competition agreement. Zhou could develop a new Bitcoinica in the next 4 days and many people would transfer deposits from old Bitcoinica to new one at the first opportunity.


I can say something on this one because it's not covered by the original NDA. I had a gentleman agreement (for 12 months) to promise not to engage in market-making businesses like Bitcoinica. So it's definitely unethical and potentially illegal to do so. And more important, I'm not interested in doing that at all.

I was very excited to talk so many customers and resolve their problems with their satisfaction. Such excitement just fades when time goes by. Passion really matters a lot.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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May 24, 2012, 08:53:33 AM
 #1244

I'm Zhou cannot even keep his word for a matter of hours. Anyone who continues to take him for his word should really consider the situation.

...And you don't give me the permission to post the private chat. The private chat starts with a greeting and was never continued after the day. It's not partial log.

I do not need to give you permission!? You need consent from whomever you've singed non disclosure agreements with in 2012 or before obviously. The private chat is extensive and covers a ton of ground.

Thank you for your long list of 15 items.

3. I apologised and gave a self-criticism publicly (about my incompetency in security system).
- because continued misrepresentation would lead to what has happened today.


5. Bitcoinica Consultancy's compromised system (which was already in production before Bitcoinica's transition period) is the direct cause (i.e. if the transition didn't start the problem wouldn't have happened, and the transition didn't cause the initial compromise on the email server).
-Unrepresentative

7. I was prohibited from expressing anything that may damage Bitcoinica Consultancy's reputation (this is from your long post recently [1]).
-You agreed not to post anymore about us. The agreement came out of a conversation based on the fact that there were many cases of cherry picking and misrepresentations. Only hours later you broke your word and even now you continue to misrepresent.

9. I have not signed any NDA with any one in 2012.
- point?

12. I assume that I obtained the permission from the person who may grant you the transparency (I'm not sure) to post the apology.
-You are responsible for what you post.

13. I have been asked to co-author an apology in my name. (And my own one doesn't sound sincere enough. [2])
-After you had misrepresented the situation so many times and lied, you offer to make an apology was assumed to be simply as a means to be political. We wanted to avoid further problems and misrepresentations (as seen in that thread). We wanted to avoid what is happening right now and reach an agreement with a public statement to clarify the situation.


If full disclosure comes out all these details will all be addressed.
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May 24, 2012, 08:56:21 AM
 #1245

If you get the consent to publish both in full please do. Realise that "cherry picking" though through a partial log might not be a smart long term strategy.

I have browsed through both. I have not responded you in the group. It's just a few consecutive complaints of you about my wrong-doing.

I received some advise from other people too, but the "advise" is irrelevant here.

We'll never have permission to post the group chat most likely. And you don't give me the permission to post the private chat. The private chat starts with a greeting and was never continued after the day. It's not partial log.

So the only person can shed some light on this all and is not bound by some NDA and has/had access to all the information is the very hacker. IIRC he has/had access to Patrick computer or at least his emails. Maybe we can convince him to publish Patricks email database. I am pretty sure he copied all of them, hackers usually do this.

BTW, am I the only one that feels a little strange that apparently Patrick does the claim thing alone? The very person that shared this computer with the hacker. Now I should send him all of private data?

I believe that his computer is not hacked. Only the email server was compromised. Also, I have checked the claim verification email system (I set it up and I still have some access) and the entire chain is clean and secure.

We have replaced all the compromised servers and Internet accounts (we re-registered new ones).

Your passports are in my private repository (AES-256 encrypted), and the previous API access key was revoked. I'm the only person with access to such information now. Patrick et al. can request for the repository once they need it, but currently they don't.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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May 24, 2012, 08:58:31 AM
 #1246

We will try to stop the drama. It is secondary or tertiary to the claims process.
+1

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May 24, 2012, 08:59:28 AM
 #1247

Please - no more of this pointless chitchat! I don't want to hear ANYTHING about your relationships and who's to blame.

JUST GIVE OUR FUCKING MONEY BACK AND TELL US WHEN THIS WILL HAPPEN!

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May 24, 2012, 09:00:20 AM
 #1248

...
I dread the moment any of my servers get compromised some day, for the first time.


If the person is good you'll probably never even know he was (or is) there.  That is unless you (or yours) are very very good.


Sure, miracles do happen all the time.

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zhoutong
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May 24, 2012, 09:03:55 AM
 #1249

I'm Zhou cannot even keep his word for a matter of hours. Anyone who continues to take him for his word should really consider the situation.

...And you don't give me the permission to post the private chat. The private chat starts with a greeting and was never continued after the day. It's not partial log.

I do not need to give you permission!? You need consent from whomever you've singed non disclosure agreements with in 2012 or before obviously. The private chat is extensive and covers a ton of ground.

Thank you for your long list of 15 items.

3. I apologised and gave a self-criticism publicly (about my incompetency in security system).
- because continued misrepresentation would lead to what has happened today.


5. Bitcoinica Consultancy's compromised system (which was already in production before Bitcoinica's transition period) is the direct cause (i.e. if the transition didn't start the problem wouldn't have happened, and the transition didn't cause the initial compromise on the email server).
-Unrepresentative

7. I was prohibited from expressing anything that may damage Bitcoinica Consultancy's reputation (this is from your long post recently [1]).
-You agreed not to post anymore about us. The agreement came out of a conversation based on the fact that there were many cases of cherry picking and misrepresentations. Only hours later you broke your word and even now you continue to misrepresent.

9. I have not signed any NDA with any one in 2012.
- point?

12. I assume that I obtained the permission from the person who may grant you the transparency (I'm not sure) to post the apology.
-You are responsible for what you post.

13. I have been asked to co-author an apology in my name. (And my own one doesn't sound sincere enough. [2])
-After you had misrepresented the situation so many times and lied, you offer to make an apology was assumed to be simply as a means to be political. We wanted to avoid further problems and misrepresentations (as seen in that thread). We wanted to avoid what is happening right now and reach an agreement with a public statement to clarify the situation.


If full disclosure comes out all these details will all be addressed.

I don't have to respond to this already. Because you have no evidence at all.

Quote
Misrepresentations.

Yes, please release the full disclosure. I'm only permitted to list 15 statements now, and you're permitted to list 0 evidence. It must be unfair to you, I can feel.

I just want to ask this question:

Is Bitcoinica Consultancy a General Partner of Bitcoinica LP?

Your answer is either YES, NO, or NDA.

Legally, if yes, then you have the permission (or Amir or Patrick). If it's NO, I will truly respect your tough situation and you can leave Bitcoinica freely without any responsibilities (and you may want to).

This should be public information anyway.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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May 24, 2012, 09:06:06 AM
 #1250

We sincerely hope that there is full disclosure. We think it is in the best interests of bitcoinica and its users. People will then be able to read the logs themselves instead of just hear an incredibly biased unrepresentative and even untruthful commentary.
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May 24, 2012, 09:07:20 AM
 #1251

Weren't you the one screaming like a bitch that they are not replying for 1 week?

Now that they reply you tell them to shut up?

Please - no more of this pointless chitchat! I don't want to hear ANYTHING about your relationships and who's to blame.

JUST GIVE OUR FUCKING MONEY BACK AND TELL US WHEN THIS WILL HAPPEN!

Your previous post:

Quote
Ok, so which form exactly should I fill out to speed up their desire to communicate? The one in New Zealand? Or is this utterly useless? What other legal options are available apart from naming and shaming? If this is the last resort we should open some more threads called "Intersango & the Bitcoinica debacle", possibly in more visible forum sections, too. I fear there will be no funds returned because they may have no data on how many bitcoins they owe.  So, don't tell me the thread is off-track. This thread is just where it needs to be. I want my coins back, and pronto.

Time to start writing email messages and look for the Intersango forum informing customers about who they do business with. I'm fed up.

Jabber/XMPP: arby@darkness.su
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May 24, 2012, 09:08:20 AM
 #1252

Your answer is either YES, NO, or NDA.

Please!

Guys can someone please pull public information from NZ companies house (even if it costs to get some by paying 10 dollars or so) and post it here.


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aq
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May 24, 2012, 09:09:37 AM
 #1253

I believe that his computer is not hacked. Only the email server was compromised. Also, I have checked the claim verification email system (I set it up and I still have some access) and the entire chain is clean and secure.

So you agree that hacker having all those emails. If he would publish all those, and reveal information about ownership of bitcoinica, contracts and whatnot, it would more or less invalidate those NDAs and you all could tell the whole true story.

We have replaced all the compromised servers and Internet accounts (we re-registered new ones).

Your passports are in my private repository (AES-256 encrypted), and the previous API access key was revoked. I'm the only person with access to such information now. Patrick et al. can request for the repository once they need it, but currently they don't.
Great to hear that at least those document should be safe.
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May 24, 2012, 09:12:34 AM
 #1254

Your answer is either YES, NO, or NDA.

Please!

Guys can someone please pull public information from NZ companies house (even if it costs to get some by paying 10 dollars or so) and post it here.



Certification of Incorporation: http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/17/BC10060962017.pdf

Application for registration of a Limited Partnership: http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/06/BC10060962006.pdf

These are public documents (free).

The general partner listed is Core Credit Limited, and Bitcoinica Consultancy Limited is a reserved company name (it can be reserved for Core Credit or a new company).

Since the sole shareholder of Core Credit has nothing to do with Donald, Patrick and Amir, I believe that they have private agreement or there are ownership changes that are not submitted to the register.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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May 24, 2012, 09:14:01 AM
 #1255

I believe that his computer is not hacked. Only the email server was compromised. Also, I have checked the claim verification email system (I set it up and I still have some access) and the entire chain is clean and secure.

So you agree that hacker having all those emails. If he would publish all those, and reveal information about ownership of bitcoinica, contracts and whatnot, it would more or less invalidate those NDAs and you all could tell the whole true story.

We have replaced all the compromised servers and Internet accounts (we re-registered new ones).

Your passports are in my private repository (AES-256 encrypted), and the previous API access key was revoked. I'm the only person with access to such information now. Patrick et al. can request for the repository once they need it, but currently they don't.
Great to hear that at least those document should be safe.


if the hacker releases anything it does not automatically invalidate the nda, because nobody knows if the hacker wrote the mails himself.

a nda is a nda...

(but i am very interested in this mails; but if they are released you should read them with a big grain of salt)
 - i am not even sure if i am allowed to read them (german law is sometimes a little bit confusing.. a little "delete this mail if it is not for you" at the end of the mail is enough to forbid reading)
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May 24, 2012, 09:14:50 AM
 #1256

I don't have to respond to this already. Because you have no evidence at all.

You mean evidence that we can currently now share?

The fact that you lied was a public admission of yours.

Yes you do not have to answer and you can say "we have no evidence"

The issue is clear. We would like full disclosure. It will resolve all these issues. Are you willing to publicly state that you support full disclosure?
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May 24, 2012, 09:19:55 AM
 #1257

Your answer is either YES, NO, or NDA.

Please!

Guys can someone please pull public information from NZ companies house (even if it costs to get some by paying 10 dollars or so) and post it here.


Certification of Incorporation: http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/17/BC10060962017.pdf

Application for registration of a Limited Partnership: http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/06/BC10060962006.pdf


http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3715077
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cheaslip

So general partner is Core Credit Limited, with accountant as probably nomini director. Very shady if so.

By law, details of limited partners are private.

Whatever questions you have Chris Heaslip is your guy, email or call and ask him.

So it is basically a limited partnership with a limited company as General Partner having it seems a sole nomini director AND a sole nomini shareholder. And who knows how many limited companies in how many jurisdictions are below that. These guys are well prepared for any (civil) legal assault and any civil case would be pointless.




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zhoutong
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May 24, 2012, 09:20:32 AM
 #1258

I don't have to respond to this already. Because you have no evidence at all.

You mean evidence that we can currently now share?

The fact that you lied was a public admission of yours.

Yes you do not have to answer and you can say "we have no evidence"

The issue is clear. We would like full disclosure. It will resolve all these issues. Are you willing to publicly state that you support full disclosure?

Yes, of course. As I said, I'm limited to list 15 statements. If there's full disclosure I can list more.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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May 24, 2012, 09:20:57 AM
 #1259

I'm Zhou cannot even keep his word for a matter of hours. Anyone who continues to take him for his word should really consider the situation.

...And you don't give me the permission to post the private chat. The private chat starts with a greeting and was never continued after the day. It's not partial log.

I do not need to give you permission!? You need consent from whomever you've singed non disclosure agreements with in 2012 or before obviously. The private chat is extensive and covers a ton of ground.

Thank you for your long list of 15 items.

3. I apologised and gave a self-criticism publicly (about my incompetency in security system).
- because continued misrepresentation would lead to what has happened today.


5. Bitcoinica Consultancy's compromised system (which was already in production before Bitcoinica's transition period) is the direct cause (i.e. if the transition didn't start the problem wouldn't have happened, and the transition didn't cause the initial compromise on the email server).
-Unrepresentative

7. I was prohibited from expressing anything that may damage Bitcoinica Consultancy's reputation (this is from your long post recently [1]).
-You agreed not to post anymore about us. The agreement came out of a conversation based on the fact that there were many cases of cherry picking and misrepresentations. Only hours later you broke your word and even now you continue to misrepresent.

9. I have not signed any NDA with any one in 2012.
- point?

12. I assume that I obtained the permission from the person who may grant you the transparency (I'm not sure) to post the apology.
-You are responsible for what you post.

13. I have been asked to co-author an apology in my name. (And my own one doesn't sound sincere enough. [2])
-After you had misrepresented the situation so many times and lied, you offer to make an apology was assumed to be simply as a means to be political. We wanted to avoid further problems and misrepresentations (as seen in that thread). We wanted to avoid what is happening right now and reach an agreement with a public statement to clarify the situation.


If full disclosure comes out all these details will all be addressed.

For god's sake just stop and let somebody else be the public spokesperson for your group.  Your public pissing match with zhoutong and your ridiculously inadequate "statement" are hardly the hallmarks of a professional and they are certainly not confidence inspiring.

And y'all might want to look into just how unenforceable the vast majority of non-disclosure agreements are before you start hiding behind them as a justification for failing to reveal important information to stakeholders.

Seriously, this is not the way to do crisis management and damage control.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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May 24, 2012, 09:21:23 AM
 #1260

if the hacker releases anything it does not automatically invalidate the nda, because nobody knows if the hacker wrote the mails himself.

a nda is a nda...

while legally right, it would be hard to execute, if you just publish then public knowledge.

(but i am very interested in this mails; but if they are released you should read them with a big grain of salt)
 - i am not even sure if i am allowed to read them (german law is sometimes a little bit confusing.. a little "delete this mail if it is not for you" at the end of the mail is enough to forbid reading)
Someone could remove that last line and forward it to you, and soon you are allowed to read it.
But frankly, an email is a digital postcard, everyone on the whole delivery chain can read it.
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