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Author Topic: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 201916 times)
flower1024
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May 24, 2012, 06:03:56 AM
 #1201


I can understand that you are disappointed at zhou for revealing that it was your own server that got compromised. It can understandably be a bit embarrassing - a firm brought in for security itself leads to a compromise.

Sorry if I am having trouble understanding.


All good points. Not only Intersango was brought as consultant and failed miserably, but Patrick Strateman's (the Intersango "Security extraordinaire") email account was the single point of failure for this hack, which was accessed by his inability to secure his OWN mail server.

You gotta love his little bio at intersango:

"Patrick Strateman as CTO with a speciality in security, has led the way building up Intersango over the course of 3 months. "

LOLLLL ... to think some people in this thread was trying to argue with me when I suggested to pull funds out of Intersango fast.

personally i do like irony very much Wink
but i couldnt care less why they lost their money... its just their legal obligation to return it.

btw my offer "give me 80btc and get 100btc when bitconica pays" is still open
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May 24, 2012, 06:05:52 AM
 #1202

Let me start off by saying the information in this post is gathered from already public statements, separate knowledge or, in individual cases has been preapproved. We have been disgusted by the fact that we cannot speak liberally. Once the reclaims process is finished, if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.

Right now, we believe the best thing for all parties involved is that we continue with the reclaims process. We have investigated many of the claims but have many left. There were still claims being filed as of at least yesterday. Our intention is to have a secure platform where users can claim their accounts and everyone will be able to claims their accounts once the claims process is finished. We cannot offer a concrete timeline for exactly when this will happen but we are working as fast as possible. Please be patient. We are truly sorry for the grave inconveniences.



As for recent incidents:

We first got involved with Bitcoinica after we discovered a security vulnerability where we could liberally withdraw and empty bitcoinica's live wallet. It became apparent to us that the site was a poorly constructed security nightmare. We started talks with bitcoinica in the hopes that they would see us as being an indispensable asset to help secure their site. The site currently is far more secure then previously.

While Zhou has made a lot of public statements, I assume his doing so has violated agreement(s) which he may have. He has stated publicly that he does have some non-disclosure agreement. Many of his posts were either untrue or certainly misleading. Many of these posts were directed at us. After being confronted on the issue, he agreed not to post anymore. After breaking that promise only hours later, we confronted him again privately.

He posted an insincere and politically worded apology.

Within the apology he made it sound as though we were trying to stop him from posting. As if he had not respected some secrecy that we wished to maintain. This of course is entirely misleading. He also posted the link to the reclaims page before it was finished and without our consent. He also continued to make very important decisions without our consent which has effected our ability to recover. In fact, even as of the 17th, we were often still in the dark and learning things through Zhou's posts on the forums. We may decide later to take action against Zhou as he has offered no public recompense. He was the owner of bitcoinica, sold bitcoinica keeping earlier profits and it seems he was paid and that he was responsible for its security until at least very recently. We even hope to release our private conversations with him if there is deemed to be no liability for us doing so. These issues should never have been made public and we took many measures speaking with him many times so that it would not get to this level. Right now though this needs to be put on the back-burner. It is immaterial until the claims process if resolved.

As for the current owners of Bitcoinica, they have by far exceeded their legal obligations in helping Bitcoinica recover from the previous hack and have pledged their continued support in seeing this incident fully resolved. I am not sure they knew how insecure the site was when they first bought it. We applaud their generosity. The inability to disclose pertinent information however we vehemently disagree with. We believe this information is critical to restoring the trust a business like bitcoinica requires.

The only agreement I have signed is in last year, with a non-disclosure clause.

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

In the past few days, I have been quite supportive about the account claim issue. I have communicated some ideas with Patrick.

I admit that the security features of the site are not up to standard. But the compromised system belongs to Bitcoinica Consultancy, and I have neither knowledge nor control. Being a target is the worst thing to have in the security world, and no system is 100% secure. The uncompromised systems are simply not the targets. Bitcoinica was not the initial target of the hacker.

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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May 24, 2012, 06:07:46 AM
 #1203

You are mad at zhou for taking emergency steps to save things (that apparently stemmed from your server) and for making an emergency announcement while you were asleep? And mad at him for making it sound as though you didn't want to post certain news? And, also mad at him for posting things (the truth, or was it a lie?) that were embarrassing?

No problem. We are referring to posts made mostly on the 14th to 16th or so. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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May 24, 2012, 06:08:20 AM
 #1204

Oh god.
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May 24, 2012, 06:09:08 AM
 #1205

.
.
.
personally i do like irony very much Wink
.
.
.


I think security is hard and this happens to the best of us. A place that needs to be secured a security firm is, by its very nature, likely to be a target, and hence one is likely to find this kind of irony all over the place.

I also think phantomcircuit (EDIT: Patrick Strateman) really does know his stuff.

It's just the above content-less manager-speak from the consultancy that got to me.

 

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May 24, 2012, 06:10:01 AM
 #1206

My bitcoin initial investments are paid off.
You beat me to this one (excepting a brief few days some months ago I guess)...
I'm prepared for whatever now.
...but I seem to have won this race.  Nice to be content, huh?


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May 24, 2012, 06:11:20 AM
 #1207

Let me start off by saying the information in this post is gathered from already public statements, separate knowledge or, in individual cases has been preapproved. We have been disgusted by the fact that we cannot speak liberally. Once the reclaims process is finished, if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.

Right now, we believe the best thing for all parties involved is that we continue with the reclaims process. We have investigated many of the claims but have many left. There were still claims being filed as of at least yesterday. Our intention is to have a secure platform where users can claim their accounts and everyone will be able to claims their accounts once the claims process is finished. We cannot offer a concrete timeline for exactly when this will happen but we are working as fast as possible. Please be patient. We are truly sorry for the grave inconveniences.



As for recent incidents:

We first got involved with Bitcoinica after we discovered a security vulnerability where we could liberally withdraw and empty bitcoinica's live wallet. It became apparent to us that the site was a poorly constructed security nightmare. We started talks with bitcoinica in the hopes that they would see us as being an indispensable asset to help secure their site. The site currently is far more secure then previously.

While Zhou has made a lot of public statements, I assume his doing so has violated agreement(s) which he may have. He has stated publicly that he does have some non-disclosure agreement. Many of his posts were either untrue or certainly misleading. Many of these posts were directed at us. After being confronted on the issue, he agreed not to post anymore. After breaking that promise only hours later, we confronted him again privately.

He posted an insincere and politically worded apology.

Within the apology he made it sound as though we were trying to stop him from posting. As if he had not respected some secrecy that we wished to maintain. This of course is entirely misleading. He also posted the link to the reclaims page before it was finished and without our consent. He also continued to make very important decisions without our consent which has effected our ability to recover. In fact, even as of the 17th, we were often still in the dark and learning things through Zhou's posts on the forums. We may decide later to take action against Zhou as he has offered no public recompense. He was the owner of bitcoinica, sold bitcoinica keeping earlier profits and it seems he was paid and that he was responsible for its security until at least very recently. We even hope to release our private conversations with him if there is deemed to be no liability for us doing so. These issues should never have been made public and we took many measures speaking with him many times so that it would not get to this level. Right now though this needs to be put on the back-burner. It is immaterial until the claims process if resolved.

As for the current owners of Bitcoinica, they have by far exceeded their legal obligations in helping Bitcoinica recover from the previous hack and have pledged their continued support in seeing this incident fully resolved. I am not sure they knew how insecure the site was when they first bought it. We applaud their generosity. The inability to disclose pertinent information however we vehemently disagree with. We believe this information is critical to restoring the trust a business like bitcoinica requires.

The only agreement I have signed is in last year, with a non-disclosure clause.

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

In the past few days, I have been quite supportive about the account claim issue. I have communicated some ideas with Patrick.

I admit that the security features of the site are not up to standard. But the compromised system belongs to Bitcoinica Consultancy, and I have neither knowledge nor control. Being a target is the worst thing to have in the security world, and no system is 100% secure. The uncompromised systems are simply not the targets. Bitcoinica was not the initial target of the hacker.

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.
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May 24, 2012, 06:12:35 AM
 #1208

The only agreement I have signed is in last year, with a non-disclosure clause.

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

In the past few days, I have been quite supportive about the account claim issue. I have communicated some ideas with Patrick.

I admit that the security features of the site are not up to standard. But the compromised system belongs to Bitcoinica Consultancy, and I have neither knowledge nor control. Being a target is the worst thing to have in the security world, and no system is 100% secure. The uncompromised systems are simply not the targets. Bitcoinica was not the initial target of the hacker.

These statements are not directed to Bitcoinica Consultancy. They are directed to facts. I officially grant Donald Norman the right to disclose any private communication on Skype between Donald and me in recent 14 days.

Yeah I don't see Zhou beating around the bushes. I do see the good folks at Intersango doing that. SO Zhou pretty much confirms that Intersango was in full control of Bitcoinica AND is the general partner for the LP (No direct confirmation, but he does state his statements on previous posts are true).

SO I understand you people have a vow of secrecy with the secret investor, but you COULD talk about bitcoin consultancy couldn't you?

By the way, how the fuck anybody will put a cent in bitcoinica when/if they reopen is beyond me, but I guess there are nimrods for everything.

GOX SUX COX!
The true faces of the Bitcoinica / Intersango SCAM! - Bitcoin was born in the shad0ws, for the shad0ws.
Smoovious
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May 24, 2012, 06:15:07 AM
 #1209

... posted some stuff, including about how zhou wasn't representing them properly ...
... pushes back, again violating what is probably a standard NDA ...
um... did I see someone in here several posts back, with popcorn? and, can I get some of that?

-- Smoov
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May 24, 2012, 06:16:44 AM
 #1210

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

Zhou (aka my fearless little asian alter ego!), why don't you release the Skype logs since Bitcoinica Consultancy is reluctant to do so? C'mon, take one for the team!

GOX SUX COX!
The true faces of the Bitcoinica / Intersango SCAM! - Bitcoin was born in the shad0ws, for the shad0ws.
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May 24, 2012, 06:19:07 AM
 #1211

Unfortunately, disclosing the skype conversations of our group would would largely be in violation of our NDA. You know this though. We would also like to give much greater detail as to the nature of the incident but are not able to due to our inability to disclose information.

Zhou (aka my fearless little asian alter ego!), why don't you release the Skype logs since Bitcoinica Consultancy is reluctant to do so? C'mon, take one for the team!

We would have to advise against this. It is better to wait if and until we have permission to release the logs in full. Releasing the full logs now would certainly violate our NDA and I am sure his.
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May 24, 2012, 06:26:22 AM
 #1212

I have already apologised about the violation with a Skype message promise. And I confirm that all I stated was pure fact. (You are welcome to take legal actions against me if anything in the apology post in untrue.)  Sincerity is rather a subjective concern. I think I'm sincere.

If total transparency is ever granted, people will be able to answer all their questions and they will know that this is a complete lie. I urge people to wait until they have all the information. While it may appear as though Zhou is being more forthcoming please do not mistake it for honesty.
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May 24, 2012, 06:26:40 AM
 #1213

We would have to advise against this. It is better to wait if and until we have permission to release the logs in full. Releasing the full logs now would certainly violate our NDA and I am sure his.
This mystery investor sure is a pain.

Why the hell did you Intersango guys even choose to do business with such retards who will mute you? Or business with a guy who you can’t even work with?

if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.
IMO you should never have started it. And IMO Bitcoinica should just die, reopening it will be a mistake.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 24, 2012, 06:40:24 AM
 #1214

WHO can grant this transparency request?
The bagholder(s) zhoutong managed to pass Bitcoinica over to before it blew up.

The MYSTERY INVESTOR.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 24, 2012, 06:46:09 AM
 #1215

SO, this is the "Statement" you referred to yesterday on IRC, Patrick?

I'm sorry, but this is more in an endless line of bullshit, stinking in the hot summer sun.

With every passing day, and statement, I lose more hope of seeing my dollars again. Already this is costing me opportunities. (but how much is bitcoinica earning on that cash while it sits? ) - As I've said previously, I've written that money off and moved on. I would be surprised if most claims were found to be "valid" - but that's just my skeptical nature, and large distrust of your whole team coming out.

"Restoring the trust in a business like bitcoinica" - man, in my eyes, you've lost the trust in you, and your whole team, and that accounts for at least three business names now. Returning the money won't go very far to restoring that. Returning the money is the least you should do, but after lies, delays, untruths, improper omissions, and whatever we've not learned yet, returning the money won't restore my trust.

This provided NO information about when we might see the return of our funds, and continued the finger pointing. The continued finger pointing raises yet another red flag about the behavior I've seen leading up to an immediately after this incident. Continued finger pointing erodes trust. I can't understand why you cannot understand this.

At the very least, it shows none of you are responsible enough to be trusted with other people's money.

And, IMO, the continued finger pointing suggests that you're hiding something more than just blatant irresponsibility. Why is it that Donald wanted to disclose everything, and you were insistent on not doing so, Patrick? WTF is really going on here?

Mine at the Maza Club! with ShastaFarEye Prospectors! Mazacoin PPS & P2pool mining, and more services coming soon!
Maza Means Money! Check yours at the mazacha.in!

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May 24, 2012, 06:52:31 AM
 #1216

I can only quote myself.

Since there seem to be a few people with knowledge of who holds the majority in Bitcoinica, perhaps an anonymous doxxing might speed things up? Not to give anyone any ideas.

intersango and zhou should not be the target here...  
Correct. Intersango is just doing whatever the owner tells them to or NOT to. They are pawns.

The mysterious owner should be in focus here, and perhaps this Bitinstant guy who claims to know him. It is him who wants to leave us uninformed, not Intersango, not zhoutong.

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 24, 2012, 07:08:31 AM
 #1217

...
By the way, how the fuck anybody will put a cent in bitcoinica when/if they reopen is beyond me, but I guess there are nimrods for everything.


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May 24, 2012, 07:09:11 AM
 #1218




intersango and zhou should not be the target here...  
Correct. Intersango is just doing whatever the owner tells them to or NOT to. They are pawns.

The mysterious owner should be in focus here, ...not Intersango, not zhoutong.

+1

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May 24, 2012, 07:10:14 AM
 #1219

We would have to advise against this. It is better to wait if and until we have permission to release the logs in full. Releasing the full logs now would certainly violate our NDA and I am sure his.
This mystery investor sure is a pain.

Why the hell did you Intersango guys even choose to do business with such retards who will mute you? Or business with a guy who you can’t even work with?

if we are not allowed to speak publicly we will stop all activity with bitcoinica.
IMO you should never have started it. And IMO Bitcoinica should just die, reopening it will be a mistake.

^ WOOOOORD, all that.

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May 24, 2012, 07:13:57 AM
 #1220

I can only quote myself.

Since there seem to be a few people with knowledge of who holds the majority in Bitcoinica, perhaps an anonymous doxxing might speed things up? Not to give anyone any ideas.

intersango and zhou should not be the target here...  
Correct. Intersango is just doing whatever the owner tells them to or NOT to. They are pawns.

The mysterious owner should be in focus here, and perhaps this Bitinstant guy who claims to know him. It is him who wants to leave us uninformed, not Intersango, not zhoutong.

Time for shitz to get fux0r3d
http://youtu.be/4KXJF58t30M

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