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Author Topic: [Emergency ANN] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation  (Read 201384 times)
Crypt_Current
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May 24, 2012, 09:25:42 AM
 #1261


And y'all might want to look into just how unenforceable the vast majority of non-disclosure agreements are before you start hiding behind them a justification for failing to reveal important information to stakeholders.

Seriously -- nut up or shut up.  Not like you're going to be jailed or anything, and I'm sure you all have WAY more money you can afford to lose than most of Bitcoinica's customers...

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May 24, 2012, 09:29:58 AM
 #1262

I don't have to respond to this already. Because you have no evidence at all.

You mean evidence that we can currently now share?

The fact that you lied was a public admission of yours.

Yes you do not have to answer and you can say "we have no evidence"

The issue is clear. We would like full disclosure. It will resolve all these issues. Are you willing to publicly state that you support full disclosure?

All the things I have listed do not require NDA on my part. (I have never signed any NDA this year.)

I was very careful and I re-read every single agreement I have signed about Bitcoinica before posting the previous post.

If you're unable to provide evidence to rebut any single statement (other than claims of "misrepresentations" without any justifications), it's unfair for you, definitely.

Again,

if you're GP, you're automatically granted the right to say anything you wish;
if you're not the GP, you're automatically granted the right to leave Bitcoinica as you wish (and you said you wanted to).

If you think the whole issue is troubling you, here's my offer:

I'll resolve the whole thing for Bitcoinica, for free. As long as Donald, Amir and Patrick are no longer involved in the dispute resolution. You're free to re-develop the site and re-launch if you wish. I just want my customers to get their money back (if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back). And the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards. This has caused severe reputation damage to me personally.

You can do whatever you want afterwards, and you get all the future proceeds. I'll resolve everything for Bitcoinica LP in a professional way. If you can't make decisions, forward this offer to your decision-maker.

EDIT:

I provide this offer because I'm suffering from reputation damage, and there's definitely no benefit in arguing with you. I'm arguing because I can't do anything to make the situation better, so I should teach you how to do PR and damage control.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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May 24, 2012, 09:33:22 AM
 #1263

Coup d'état

P.S. Bitcoin should be at 50$ on entertainment value alone.


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May 24, 2012, 09:36:53 AM
 #1264

And the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards. This has caused severe reputation damage to me personally.

You can do whatever you want afterwards, and you get all the future proceeds. I'll resolve everything for Bitcoinica LP in a professional way. If you can't make decisions, forward this offer to your decision-maker.

EDIT:

I provide this offer because I'm suffering from reputation damage, and there's definitely no benefit in arguing with you. I'm arguing because I can't do anything to make the situation better, so I should teach you how to do PR and damage control.

+1


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May 24, 2012, 09:39:04 AM
 #1265

And the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards. This has caused severe reputation damage to me personally.

You can do whatever you want afterwards, and you get all the future proceeds. I'll resolve everything for Bitcoinica LP in a professional way. If you can't make decisions, forward this offer to your decision-maker.

EDIT:

I provide this offer because I'm suffering from reputation damage, and there's definitely no benefit in arguing with you. I'm arguing because I can't do anything to make the situation better, so I should teach you how to do PR and damage control.

+1



+1 i've put myself in your shoes... not very pleasant

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May 24, 2012, 09:39:14 AM
 #1266

I just want my customers to get their money back (if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back).

love to here that.
how do i determine my user id?
Crypt_Current
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May 24, 2012, 09:39:56 AM
 #1267


if you're GP, you're automatically granted the right to say anything you wish;
if you're not the GP, you're automatically granted the right to leave Bitcoinica as you wish (and you said you wanted to).


Dude is SO WICKED with gotchas.  Fucking brilliant.


If you think the whole issue is troubling you, here's my offer:

I'll resolve the whole thing for Bitcoinica, for free. As long as Donald, Amir and Patrick are no longer involved in the dispute resolution. You're free to re-develop the site and re-launch if you wish. I just want my customers to get their money back (if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back). And the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards. This has caused severe reputation damage to me personally.

You can do whatever you want afterwards, and you get all the future proceeds. I'll resolve everything for Bitcoinica LP in a professional way. If you can't make decisions, forward this offer to your decision-maker.

EDIT:

I provide this offer because I'm suffering from reputation damage, and there's definitely no benefit in arguing with you. I'm arguing because I can't do anything to make the situation better, so I should teach you how to do PR and damage control.

Well alright then.  I sure could use that money, like now.  Pretty please.   Smiley

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Blitz­
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May 24, 2012, 09:39:58 AM
 #1268

the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards.
Says the guy who codes a financial platform in 4 days and passes it on to some clueless bagholder.

I fully agree with you, Vladimir. 50 minimum. Grin

"Bitcoin had been transformed from an anarachistic challenge to the financial status quo, to the crypto spawn of Satan, fuelled by cut-throat greed and delusions of avarice." - MatTheCat
"these people don't seem to want to stop till Bitcoin is completely destroyed and left like an old cum rag in the corner of the room." - ShroomsKit
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May 24, 2012, 09:44:29 AM
 #1269

And don't expect anyone to take "Bitcoinica Consultancy" seriously while you're choosing to hide behind a screen name.  When shit gets real, people need more than a screen-name and an email address.  They need the name and the contact details of the person who's making the statements they're being asked to believe.  You're not fucking Anonymous.  Stop hiding behind "we" and put your real name and your precise role in this whole clusterfuck to your posts.  You can't establish credibility when no-one knows who the fuck you are and your exact financial and legal relationship with Bitcoinica.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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May 24, 2012, 09:48:18 AM
 #1270

+1

Waiting for Zhou to start returning the money, as he previously stated.

On a side note, I have a feeling Zhou was not really happy that Team Intersango took over, but its nice to watch such nice promises, you people start to sound like Obama, and Romney.

Maybe add on bitcoinica.com a status update, or maybe a list on how much you returned until now, etc, the wait is really annoying for people.

Up until now, I can not really decide who is to blame, but I think maybe everybody should calm down, this is not fixing anything, act a bit mature I guess? Pointing fingers is not going to solve it, also I think the
'hacker' is enjoying the show.


if you're GP, you're automatically granted the right to say anything you wish;
if you're not the GP, you're automatically granted the right to leave Bitcoinica as you wish (and you said you wanted to).


Dude is SO WICKED with gotchas.  Fucking brilliant.


If you think the whole issue is troubling you, here's my offer:

I'll resolve the whole thing for Bitcoinica, for free. As long as Donald, Amir and Patrick are no longer involved in the dispute resolution. You're free to re-develop the site and re-launch if you wish. I just want my customers to get their money back (if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back). And the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards. This has caused severe reputation damage to me personally.

You can do whatever you want afterwards, and you get all the future proceeds. I'll resolve everything for Bitcoinica LP in a professional way. If you can't make decisions, forward this offer to your decision-maker.

EDIT:

I provide this offer because I'm suffering from reputation damage, and there's definitely no benefit in arguing with you. I'm arguing because I can't do anything to make the situation better, so I should teach you how to do PR and damage control.

Well alright then.  I sure could use that money, like now.  Pretty please.   Smiley

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May 24, 2012, 09:59:29 AM
 #1271

+1

Waiting for Zhou to start returning the money, as he previously stated.

On a side note, I have a feeling Zhou was not really happy that Team Intersango took over, but its nice to watch such nice promises, you people start to sound like Obama, and Romney.

Maybe add on bitcoinica.com a status update, or maybe a list on how much you returned until now, etc, the wait is really annoying for people.


if you're GP, you're automatically granted the right to say anything you wish;
if you're not the GP, you're automatically granted the right to leave Bitcoinica as you wish (and you said you wanted to).


Dude is SO WICKED with gotchas.  Fucking brilliant.


If you think the whole issue is troubling you, here's my offer:

I'll resolve the whole thing for Bitcoinica, for free. As long as Donald, Amir and Patrick are no longer involved in the dispute resolution. You're free to re-develop the site and re-launch if you wish. I just want my customers to get their money back (if your user ID is less than 4500, I'll definitely make sure you get your money back). And the dispute resolution team is not working in a way that matches my standards. This has caused severe reputation damage to me personally.

You can do whatever you want afterwards, and you get all the future proceeds. I'll resolve everything for Bitcoinica LP in a professional way. If you can't make decisions, forward this offer to your decision-maker.

EDIT:

I provide this offer because I'm suffering from reputation damage, and there's definitely no benefit in arguing with you. I'm arguing because I can't do anything to make the situation better, so I should teach you how to do PR and damage control.

Well alright then.  I sure could use that money, like now.  Pretty please.   Smiley

I made a mistake not to advise the previous owner to stop the negotiation. I only asked him to check their actual technical abilities.

But well, it's already passed so I shouldn't say anything or blame anyone. There are some vulnerabilities with my code, and they fixed that very quickly, which is a very good thing anyway. So I kept silent on the issue.

If I had any control: I would like Patrick to be in the team. Donald should resign. Amir didn't involve much so I don't make any judgement.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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zhoutong
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May 24, 2012, 10:02:57 AM
 #1272

let me make a point clear in case you dont get this

I dont give a f**k about your blame game, I want my money back and if you feel the need to throw s**t at each other make a f**king thread about that

I know your feeling.

I actually LOL'd when I see the mess I'm creating. That's a better language skill exercise than any essays written in school.

I'm not out of mind though. Just that the whole thing is quite funny if I look back. :-D

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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May 24, 2012, 10:04:18 AM
 #1273

And on another side note, about pointing fingers, shit happens some times, and you really can not avoid this all the time.

WHMCS.com was "hacked" recently for example using the same method it seems:

Quote
It is rumoured and believed that Matt’s email account was hacked and hence the hackers gained access to the server details and the Twitter account at the same time. Nothing has been done so far to get the twitter account back, although WHMCS is back online after being hacked and defaced with a DDoS attack.

I do not believe that guy is not professional, or lacks technical skills.

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May 24, 2012, 10:10:01 AM
 #1274

And on another side note, about pointing fingers, shit happens some times, and you really can not avoid this all the time.

WHMCS.com was hacked for example using the same method it seems:

Quote
It is rumoured and believed that Matt’s email account was hacked and hence the hackers gained access to the server details and the Twitter account at the same time. Nothing has been done so far to get the twitter account back, although WHMCS is back online after being hacked and defaced with a DDoS attack.

I do not believe that guy is not professional, or lacks technical skills.

Yes, I always think that's unavoidable. This should be obvious to any technical person.

That's why I initially claimed that one of our team members' email server was compromised, not even mentioning the name (but I knew it). I only clarified when there are overwhelming requests for more information.

My attitude has always been:

Everyone has a part in the problem. I don't blame anyone. But blaming me for everything is wrong. Not allowing me to clarify truths is wrong. Claiming that I'm lying without evidence is wrong. Saying that I'm the trouble-maker when the root cause is not me is wrong.

Only if the dispute resolution team can do things more quickly, I'm fine with being personally liable for everything and continue being the "assumed responsible person". But they are even hiding the corporate details from me now! (They said I was lying while I only gave the information I had. It must mean that the information has changed.)

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

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May 24, 2012, 10:13:38 AM
 #1275

We will take what Zhou has proposed into consideration and discuss it with relevant parties. The issues of misrepresentation were not amenable despite numerous talks. Our silence was called into question the same time we were being misrepresented. Despite our best efforts this was unavoidable. We apologise but we are happy that Zhou has stated many things which, if there is full disclosure, will be shown to be lies and misrepresentations.

With full disclosure I believe our actions will be understood. Without full disclosure, our reputation may remain damaged. If that is the case at least we can say we spoke up.
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May 24, 2012, 10:18:53 AM
 #1276

Quote
Certification of Incorporation: http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/17/BC10060962017.pdf

Application for registration of a Limited Partnership: http://www.societies.govt.nz/scanned-images/06/BC10060962006.pdf

http://www.business.govt.nz/companies/app/ui/pages/companies/3715077

http://www.linkedin.com/in/cheaslip

So general partner is Core Credit Limited, with accountant as probably nomini director. Very shady if so.

By law, details of limited partners are private.

So it is basically a limited partnership with a limited company as General Partner having it seems a sole nomini director AND a sole nomini shareholder. And who knows how many limited companies in how many jurisdictions are below that. These guys are well prepared for any (civil) legal assault and any civil case would be pointless.

Why such a shady corporate setup guys?

What are you hiding there?

Do you think this is acceptable for such a company to hold USD and BTC deposits taken from general public?



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May 24, 2012, 10:20:45 AM
 #1277

Quote
That's why I initially claimed that one of our team members' email server was compromised, not even mentioning the name (but I knew it). I only clarified when there are overwhelming requests for more information.

I think this was a mistake, because it was your team. I know probably you wanted to help your customers, but in the long run this only managed to destroy both your and intersangos reputation, created a lot of panic, and also allowed agitators (the competiton, and haters) to cause problems.

I think also this is why they are now hiding details from you, because you are not a team player any more.

And on another side note, about pointing fingers, shit happens some times, and you really can not avoid this all the time.

WHMCS.com was hacked for example using the same method it seems:

Quote
It is rumoured and believed that Matt’s email account was hacked and hence the hackers gained access to the server details and the Twitter account at the same time. Nothing has been done so far to get the twitter account back, although WHMCS is back online after being hacked and defaced with a DDoS attack.

I do not believe that guy is not professional, or lacks technical skills.

Yes, I always think that's unavoidable. This should be obvious to any technical person.

That's why I initially claimed that one of our team members' email server was compromised, not even mentioning the name (but I knew it). I only clarified when there are overwhelming requests for more information.

My attitude has always been:

Everyone has a part in the problem. I don't blame anyone. But blaming me for everything is wrong. Not allowing me to clarify truths is wrong. Claiming that I'm lying without evidence is wrong. Saying that I'm the trouble-maker when the root cause is not me is wrong.

Only if the dispute resolution team can do things more quickly, I'm fine with being personally liable for everything and continue being the "assumed responsible person". But they are even hiding the corporate details from me now! (They said I was lying while I only gave the information I had. It must mean that the information has changed.)

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May 24, 2012, 10:21:28 AM
 #1278

I'm pretty sure this will end once Tihan gets a call...
ha-ha! I will make a statement (assumption) by ~ 30 min. But first I need to read up to the end of the whole topic (fucking slow)

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May 24, 2012, 10:25:09 AM
 #1279

Looks like shit got real uh? is someone making backups?


LOL, Zhou is running a pro PR campain here (and winning this little PR war). Bravo! Something to learn for many parties involved.



Helps when you have truth, goodwill and honesty on your side:)

Indeed! If he does not have non-competition agreement. Zhou could should develop a new Bitcoinica in the next 4 days and many people would transfer deposits from old Bitcoinica to new one at the first opportunity.

Wait. What? Would people do that? Would you? Knowing all we know about what happened?

Wow... people  Grin

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May 24, 2012, 10:25:51 AM
 #1280

We will take what Zhou has proposed into consideration and discuss it with relevant parties. The issues of misrepresentation were not amenable despite numerous talks. Our silence was called into question the same time we were being misrepresented. Despite our best efforts this was unavoidable. We apologise but we are happy that Zhou has stated many things which, if there is full disclosure, will be shown to be lies and misrepresentations.

With full disclosure I believe our actions will be understood. Without full disclosure, our reputation may remain damaged. If that is the case at least we can say we spoke up.

I have no knowledge of the "full disclosure" you're mentioning. So I shouldn't comment on it either.

As I'm officially out of the dispute resolution process, these are the things we know:

1. I play no part in Bitcoinica. If you get your money late, it's Bitcoinica Consultancy's fault. You're unlikely to never get the money because they are not paying the bills anyway (so they aren't able to screw up on the financial side).
2. We have all seen how Bitcoinica Consultancy has handled the issue in the entire process. You should make your own judgement in your future business with them. (Disclaimer: I provide no advise.)
3. I have some funds in my own Bitcoinica account and I have filed the claim. I will take legal actions against Bitcoinica LP if my claim cannot be processed within 30 days.

Founder of NameTerrific (https://www.nameterrific.com/). Co-founder of CoinJar (https://coinjar.io/)

Donations for my future Bitcoin projects: 19Uk3tiD5XkBcmHyQYhJxp9QHoub7RosVb
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