Crypto Kingdom - 1991 Retro Virtual World(City)

[AdamWhite]

Hi Everyone,

Apologies for not keeping up with the game, a number of obligations have kept me out of crypto and this will not change in the foreseeable future. In light of this, I would like to offer my account/character for sale.

Please let me know if my in-game holdings are publicly viewable, or if I should list them in this thread.

Please also note that my assets include very choice plots of land, which appear to have been allocated to other players in my absence. Thís is now the second time this has occurred, despite confirmation from Risto that the “mistake” had been corrected. Interestingly, Risto never bothered to respond to the subsequent PM i sent him on March 13, 2016, 03:11:14 PM regarding this.

Proof:

https://i.imgur.com/x6z5h8n.png


Please feel free to make an offer on the account/character/all in-game assets.


Kind regards,
AdamWhite

 

[rpietila]

Hi Everyone,

Apologies for not keeping up with the game, a number of obligations have kept me out of crypto and this will not change in the foreseeable future. In light of this, I would like to offer my account/character for sale.

Please let me know if my in-game holdings are publicly viewable, or if I should list them in this thread.

Please also note that my assets include very choice plots of land, which appear to have been allocated to other players in my absence. Thís is now the second time this has occurred, despite confirmation from Risto that the “mistake” had been corrected. Interestingly, Risto never bothered to respond to the subsequent PM i sent him on March 13, 2016, 03:11:14 PM regarding this.

Proof:

https://i.imgur.com/x6z5h8n.png


Please feel free to make an offer on the account/character/all in-game assets.


Kind regards,
AdamWhite

Hi, in accordance of what was decided by Town Council sometime in 2015, HH Duke of North Face (Sirjacket, djjacket) is the sole and final arbiter in claims cases related to abandoned accounts.

I am the sole and final authority in other land claims. I do not handle any cases before the game is again up and running again.

[rpietila]

Councillors,

There is urgent need to get back to work, so please activate the #ck-dev slack channel and discuss about the relevant topics.

The ongoing rise in our currency value has very interesting effects on the game economy, and I cannot alone decide what is the best course of action.

Active people who are not councillors may also ask for access, we need ideas/feedback from many, because this is an important time of decision.

[proride]

Councillors,

There is urgent need to get back to work, so please activate the #ck-dev slack channel and discuss about the relevant topics.

The ongoing rise in our currency value has very interesting effects on the game economy, and I cannot alone decide what is the best course of action.

Active people who are not councillors may also ask for access, we need ideas/feedback from many, because this is an important time of decision.

Hello!
So, can I withdraw XMR now?) (I dont want, but realy - can I?)
And how much costs my account now? Can I sell it in one moment?

[rpietila]

Hello!
So, can I withdraw XMR now?) (I dont want, but realy - can I?)
And how much costs my account now? Can I sell it in one moment?

Treasury is operated by saddam. As far as I know, withdrawals are disabled because enabling them would require the corresponding game ledger (changelog) be operational so that it gets recorded both sides. But changelog is paused because the game is paused.

I am very urgently trying to get the players to decide what to do next. This includes the possibility to unpause the game, but the unpausing is not a trivial action and requires many decisions and lots of work.

[proride]

Hello!
So, can I withdraw XMR now?) (I dont want, but realy - can I?)
And how much costs my account now? Can I sell it in one moment?

Treasury is operated by saddam. As far as I know, withdrawals are disabled because enabling them would require the corresponding game ledger (changelog) be operational so that it gets recorded both sides. But changelog is paused because the game is paused.

I am very urgently trying to get the players to decide what to do next. This includes the possibility to unpause the game, but the unpausing is not a trivial action and requires many decisions and lots of work.

Hmm.. its not very good in the view of XMR price.. =(

[rpietila]

Hello!
So, can I withdraw XMR now?) (I dont want, but realy - can I?)
And how much costs my account now? Can I sell it in one moment?

Treasury is operated by saddam. As far as I know, withdrawals are disabled because enabling them would require the corresponding game ledger (changelog) be operational so that it gets recorded both sides. But changelog is paused because the game is paused.

I am very urgently trying to get the players to decide what to do next. This includes the possibility to unpause the game, but the unpausing is not a trivial action and requires many decisions and lots of work.

Hmm.. its not very good in the view of XMR price.. =(

If what I do is wrong, please do better yourself! Or at least tell me what to do

I have been trying to get it restarted for 2 weeks now.

[ChrisPop]

From what I understand we have two decide between two options right?

1) To restart the game at the "Ultima" version.
2) To keep the game paused until the development of "Clans" version is finished.

King please correct me if this is not right.

[rpietila]

From what I understand we have two decide between two options right?

1) To restart the game at the "Ultima" version.
2) To keep the game paused until the development of "Clans" version is finished.

King please correct me if this is not right.

Well third option is to decide that the game has lived for 2 years and during this time, contributed what it could towards keeping XMR alive, and we will never know whether it was important or not. Now it seems XMR will stay alive regardless of the game, so we can fold it and everybody gets their monereto balances back.

These 3 are the main options, and we have functional rules to govern the decision-making:

* I am now trying to get people to discuss in a larger group, same way as the IRC room was in the very beginning.
* This larger group will elect a new Council, to ensure that every councillor is still active and backed by gold.
* The Council will make the decisions, after having plans for all the options, so that the decision is backed by action plans.
* Then the plan selected, will be put into action.

The Wizard is already drafting the plan for #1 (To restart the game at the "Ultima" version).

[goin2mars.]

I'd be sad to see the thousands of monero ive deposited be returned as only the 110 that i currently have.

[ChrisPop]

I agree with goin2mars. I have deposited over 200 XMR into the game and I have bought items with that,but now in the balance I only have a few mils so I strongly think that CK SHOULD NOT BE CLOSED in this form. Regarding the other 2 plans: To return to the Ultima? Well,then why we made this long pause? I think we should progress not stay in the place. If we decide to wait for the "Clans" version how much will be until it gets live?

[iluvbitcoins]

I completely agree with going2mars and ChrisPop

We must advance, not 'reset'  

If I can help with anything, feel free to contact me, however.. I am very thin on time

[noms]

After quite a hectic summer, I am able to rejoin CK and hopefully help take this game to the next level

NewLiberty also approached me, voicing much support but not currently more possibility to personally invest time. He mentioned also the idea that we could continue to play in the current version for some more time, if escaping out of it in a concerted effort feels too risky. I will comment on the idea more in the meetings that soon begin.

I believe that further pausing of the game may prove detrimental to its success. Given the short timelines in crypto, it has seemed like years since we have been able to play. While the idea of continuing to play the current version is a bit of a step backwards from where we had hoped the game would be, perhaps now is the time to capitalize on the large amount of interest in XMR due to the moon and Other Things.  This may cause a lot of players to join the game and help jump-start the it again. I agree with NewLiberty on this matter. Once clans is appropriately planned, built, and tested, at that point we can move it into the spotlight in a seamless fashion while still allowing things to percolate.

In the cryptoworld, fortunes change very quickly. At the current XMR/fiat rate, the players who also hold XMR, are 3 times richer. I have the feeling that raising the money required for Clans to materialise, is not the main problem. Money is fungible (especially XMR hehe) so it does not so much matter who gives it, when, how and in what kind of sums. On the other hand, the people, the community, are not fungible. So far the only successful key person recruited in the game is Wizard Developer. Since he was found by Thud, I have asked Thud to seek Community Manager and/or CEO. And have actually 2 possibilities from my own contacts. In any case, I believe our "24/7 team" will grow by 1 if not 2 people this autumn.

We are at a fortunate place with CK now that the town funds have ballooned in fiat values. This could allow us to hire people to seriously take on the game admin, community outreach, as well as some marketing.  I think if we were to hire one or more of these positions, the potential gains for the game (and monero) could outweigh the costs.

[ArticMine]

The fact that closing CK is even being considered leads me to believe that there are serious financial problems here that are not unrelated to the sharp rise in Moreno with respect not only to Bitcoin but also with respect to virtually every fiat currency.

I see the following issues:

1) There were many persons who invested  hundreds and thousands of Moreno in CK equity game assets. If the game is restarted and the market is allowed to set the value of these assets, this may address the issue; nevertheless there may still be the issue of loss in value caused by the pause over the summer. If on the other hand the game is not restarted or is "reset" there could be substantial claims here.
 
2) Then there is the issue of CON and the related asset S-CON. Time can be very much of the essence here, because this is a liability of CK that is denominated in Moreno and Moreno is sharply rising. I do not even want to fathom what the potential legal ramifications here may be. The best solution here I can see is to reach a settlement with the CON and S-CON holders. Given the current market situation with Moreno this may not be cheap. CON is basically a short position on Monero. Those on the long side of the contract are going to want to be paid. Given that in many jurisdictions crypto currency is effectively treated as money, this would be no different from a default denominated in fiat or Bitcoin. There are already significant legal precedents with defaults denominated in Bitcoin.

3) The pause has likely made the situation worse. If there are serious financial problems the sooner this is dealt with the better.  

4) I am not 100% clear on the legal status of CK. Who is actually the owner? Who is liable for the debts and other liabilities?

There is a distinct sense of deja-vu  here with Bitcoin in 2011 - 2013. Those who were short Bitcoin were fine until the price of Bitcoin started to move up, after the 2011 bear market. Once the short squeeze started the financial and legal consequences followed. Bitcoin itself of course was fine and the same is likely to be the case with Monero.

The best solution here is for the game to be salvaged and restarted if this is possible; nevertheless I believe that some sort of settlement, with the CON / S-CON holders is going to be needed. Contrary to some of the other comments I believe that Town and consequently CK is net short Monero which places CK in a very precarious financial situation.

Edit: I am unclear why the game could not continue in the Ultima form while the Clans version is developed.

[noms]

CON is the only thing that needs to be made whole?

CON is but one asset in the game that is a risk. CKG and land are also major components of the game-it is unfair to assume only CON has value. It is the least player-centric component of this game, and without players CK is nothing. 

[ArticMine]

CON is the only thing that needs to be made whole?

CON is but one asset in the game that is a risk. CKG and land are also major components of the game-it is unfair to assume only CON has value. It is the least player-centric component of this game, and without players CK is nothing.  

I am not saying that only CON / S-CON has value. What I am saying is that it is a huge and growing liability to the game.

Edit 1: Of course without players CK is nothing.  CON / S-CON actually puts it into negative territory or deep into the red.

Edit 2: What a player is willing to pay in order to play the game is not denominated in XMR. It should increase over time only with purchasing power, say 1-2% per year in terms of EUR. Therein lies the issue and the XMR short.

[noms]

CON is the only thing that needs to be made whole?

CON is but one asset in the game that is a risk. CKG and land are also major components of the game-it is unfair to assume only CON has value. It is the least player-centric component of this game, and without players CK is nothing.  

I am not saying that only CON / S-CON has value. What I am saying is that it is a huge and growing liability to the game.

Edit 1: Of course without players CK is nothing.  CON / S-CON actually puts it into negative territory or deep into the red.

Edit 2: What a player is willing to pay in order to play the game is not denominated in XMR. It should increase over time only with purchasing power, say 1-2% per year in terms of EUR. Therein lies the issue and the XMR short.

I think what we are forgetting is that CON is actually paid for by the taxes on the land/buildings. It was designed to pay for itself..

[generalizethis]

After a lengthy discussion on ##crypto-kingdom, many of the players would like to have a more formal discussion about the game's future (mainly finances, but other game dynamics were discussed), and Sir Jacket was requested as moderator. If HM and Sir Jacket could comment on if they can attend the meeting, their roles, and also to the preferred schedule of the meeting, I think we could come to some consensus as to the game's near term goals. I pray everyone who has interest in the game to express their voice and lend some time for discussion.  

Humbly,

Crichton

[rpietila]

Excellent that we get the discussion needed!

Later today I am offline with logistics hurdles, but from tomorrow hopefully available.

After a lengthy discussion on ##crypto-kingdom, many of the players would like to have a more formal discussion about the game's future (mainly finances, but other game dynamics were discussed), and Sir Jacket was requested as moderator. If HM and Sir Jacket could comment on if they can attend the meeting, their roles, and also to the preferred schedule of the meeting, I think we could come to some consensus as to the game's near term goals. I pray everyone who has interest in the game to express their voice and lend some time for discussion.  

As I wrote previously, I believe we should first convene this meeting, and after kickstarting the discussions, use it to vote for the Town Council. That keeps the planning process contained so that those who have a stake, have a voice as well. Town Council consists of 6 ppl, currently Sirjacket is the mayor.

As much as I like direct democracy, our governance model is not direct but representative, so that the different "parties" (eg. groups who want one of the 3 options to happen) will use their gold to get a councillor elected.

The fact that closing CK is even being considered leads me to believe that there are serious financial problems here that are not unrelated to the sharp rise in Moreno with respect not only to Bitcoin but also with respect to virtually every fiat currency.

(nobody has "considered" shutting it down, I listed it for completeness' sake)

Town finances show the following:

Current accounts and accounts earmarked for development = 5.75 bil ($46k)
Accounts earmarked for game economy (rent pools) = 8.99 bil ($82k)
Liabilities from unpaid development, etc  = -1.00 bil ($8k)
Repayable debt = -0.00 bil ($0k)
----------------------------------------------------
Total 13.74 bil ($110k)

* Consol debt, game-annual interest payment (no principal repayment) = 0.45 bil ($4k)


From here on, it is useful to read the game rules and TOS, in order to understand why certain things are so.

1) There were many persons who invested  hundreds and thousands of Moreno in CK equity game assets. If the game is restarted and the market is allowed to set the value of these assets, this may address the issue; nevertheless there may still be the issue of loss in value caused by the pause over the summer. If on the other hand the game is not restarted or is "reset" there could be substantial claims here.

It is very likely that over the period when the game has been paused, but the currency of the game has appreciated 300% or more, the equity and property values denominated in the said currency have plummeted. Market will be able to find the new values as it always has.

2) Then there is the issue of CON and the related asset S-CON. Time can be very much of the essence here, because this is a liability of CK that is denominated in Moreno and Moreno is sharply rising. I do not even want to fathom what the potential legal ramifications here may be. The best solution here I can see is to reach a settlement with the CON and S-CON holders. Given the current market situation with Moreno this may not be cheap. CON is basically a short position on Monero. Those on the long side of the contract are going to want to be paid. Given that in many jurisdictions crypto currency is effectively treated as money, this would be no different from a default denominated in fiat or Bitcoin. There are already significant legal precedents with defaults denominated in Bitcoin.

First when the competent governance is re-established, it will decide which of the options to take concerning how to continue the game. If:

1) the game is discontinued, every game asset loses its value, but assets that are tied to out-of-game value (Moneretos are claims to Saddam's treasury and there may be others), will redeem the out-of-game value first. In this scenario both CKG and CON become worthless with no repayment from anyone. (Since the game is public domain, it technically cannot be closed by majority decision, but in this event it makes sense to handle the majority decision first and continue afterwards.)

2) the game is continued, there will be no issue related to CKG, nobody is forced to pay dividends to it. As for CON, the Town is bound to pay 100,000 m annually, and this is potentially a large sum. If the Council refuses to pay, we have a world with illegal governance and need to select a new one. A "compromise" is also possible but I don't personally believe destroying the Town's credibility over this is a good idea if the wish is to continue.

3) since CON is an ingame asset, all disputes are handled in the game. Thoughts to escalate ingame matters to random out-of-game authorities are against the rules.

3) The pause has likely made the situation worse. If there are serious financial problems the sooner this is dealt with the better.  

4) I am not 100% clear on the legal status of CK. Who is actually the owner? Who is liable for the debts and other liabilities?

There are no financial problems currently as evident from the above. It is the plan how to continue, that we are discussing. Continuing does cost money, and especially it requires us to tighten our ranks with admin, dev, design, etc. I largely lost contact with the players in the spring when trying to let Rakshasa grow in the admin/GM/community manager position. When I saw it did not work out, it was already summer and much of the damage was done.

I planned the pause, and the "point of actual decision", beforehand. What I did not plan is the rise in XMR rate, which causes the following:
- Everyone is in a different level of wealth, affecting her available time and money
- It can be argued that the game has succeeded in its mission of bringing people to XMR and it cannot any more be so very crucial
- Game pools have more value in them in fiat terms, also CON annual payments have become larger in fiat terms.

CK is a game/ownership ledger in public domain. There are no known forks. The version that we have been playing has rulebound governance that enables the CKG holders to select and remove members of Town Council, who can decide the rules. Some other positions exist such as Gamemaster, who is the final authority in the state of the game (the ledger), because there is no blockchain, just a DB. Council appoints the GM, who is me.

The Town may only be indebted or liable in its own domain, ie. ingame. It is against the rules and also impossible for it to contract liabilities in outside world. It also does not have much liabilities, the assets are 10x or more larger.

The best solution here is for the game to be salvaged and restarted if this is possible; nevertheless I believe that some sort of settlement, with the CON / S-CON holders is going to be needed. Contrary to some of the other comments I believe that Town and consequently CK is net short Monero which places CK in a very precarious financial situation.

The Town is net long XMR and net short a perpetual stream of XMR. There is nothing alarming in this, if we get enough people to play the game so that it offsets the increased fiat value of the CON payments. To get those people, we need to activate our community. They can bridge the gap that exists before Clans.

My intention is to drive home the point that the pioneering days are behind, and I am no more sufficient (nor able) to do everything. We need both old and new people, and we need money, and we need discussion, and we need plan, and then we need also luck.

[goin2mars.]

My opinion is that if the game was initially intended to bring people to Monero and make Monero successful, then it has not yet accomplished that. I've seen speak of 100k's of people being brought into Monero, yet that hasn't likely happened from my perspective. Even when PLX is busy the people online is around 8-9k (6748 right now). PLX being the main exchange for Monero currently is the reason I'm using this as an example.

In that light, the game hasn't failed, or yet succeeded. Early closure at the first hint of going down the right path seems like a strange way to go IMO. Plus Monero isn't really worth that much right now. More than before, yes undeniably. At target, hardly there yet. So personally, I don't think that the argument that "the game has succeeded in its mission of bringing people to XMR and it cannot any more be so very crucial" is true as of yet.

That said, I think we should start by identifying the in-game assets that will likely take the biggest hit (or most affected) with the rise in Monero. CON is a good identification, but there are many companies that were worth a significant amount (shares), CKG, CKS, coins, property, buildings, building materials, IC, SCI, all of which are in a very different situation than they were before the pause. Then there are the things that those assets are directly tied to like the state of the game itself (software, community in CKG). Taking all of these variables into account and discussing them in an itemized way might help to clarify a way forward here.

The small cap items like npc's, consumables, one-off luxuries, art, ming, suits, furniture represent the least of interest, IMO. In short, if there ever was a time in which CK could be most crucial to XMR adoption, it starts now.