AMHash1: Cost-Effective Mining Contract

[l3sny]

Ok, I think I have a clearer picture now and this is the working hypothesis that they used 110nm to prove the hashrate (which is probably cheap to produce but expensive in use) and created a ponzi.
I see all 3 companies involved + all the people from the boards including "David", FC and Rock Xie.
I understand that Rock, David and FC were/are members of the board of AM. I am not sure if there were other people involved.

Well... it looks good! Now we need proper translation of this document. Can please someone provide information on the following:

location of Asicminer (Bitquan)
details of this "David" and his whereabouts address etc.

We will be looking for legal assistance somewhere near those locations. Perhaps someone can recommend a legal practice willing to assist/represent us in this matter?

I can imagine that if it comes to fraud Chinese state is quite harsh especially when it emerges from some dodgy cryptocurrencies/bitcoin industry. I think we may have quite strong argument at hand to convince all those people that it is in their best interest to find quickly a solution for the problem no matter if FC is alive or dead.

Fully agree, found email to report them to 1.   Ministry of Public Security (MPS) they cover 6)   use of the Internet for theft, fraud and extortion; their email is http://www.cyberpolice.cn not sure if its best to all separtely email them or as a group, what your guys think?

We want them to pay and it may be difficult to do so from behind the bars. We need Chinese lawyers to make contact with them. I think criminal option is the last resort when everything else fails.

Just some thoughts:

If you have ever dealt with some Chinese officials regarding a fraud case, you know that this is - to say it politely - difficult. Often it turns out that they find fraudsters, get money from them and let them go. Happened more than once in cases I was involved in as a researcher.

The same is true with lawyers. You HAVE to know who you are dealing with, and the best is often someone who is not from the area.

Also consider hiring a private investigator. This is risky, though, for the Chinese officials don't like other people doing the research. However, there are some who come out from governmental agencies and know how to find evidence, persons and hiding their own tracks at the same time.

Just my 2 cents.

I have never had any experience with Chinese lawyers. Perhaps the best way would be to do so thorough HK. But it would be very costly.

I would rather try the hard way and find someone locally, preferably in the area where Bitquan is. This case is about white collar crime. The injured are the people from various jurisdictions and the Chinese as well. It is way to early to discuss the retainer however it has to be someone with good English and willing to assist us. Perhaps those people will hire someone so it will be much easier. Should we not succeed with the recovering our hashrate and the coins we will just ask the lawyer to file an official complaint against all the parties involved in it to Chinese criminal authorities and see what happens. But no matter how uncivilized China is I do not think that Bitquan people want to be involved in such a proceedings as it is very likely to end up in a criminal court. Do you think that someone will be doing any business with them if they have such troubles?

[AirWolf]

Read Puppet DEFEND ASICMINER here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=833704.msg10683608#msg10683608

[RealMalatesta]

Ok, I think I have a clearer picture now and this is the working hypothesis that they used 110nm to prove the hashrate (which is probably cheap to produce but expensive in use) and created a ponzi.
I see all 3 companies involved + all the people from the boards including "David", FC and Rock Xie.
I understand that Rock, David and FC were/are members of the board of AM. I am not sure if there were other people involved.

Well... it looks good! Now we need proper translation of this document. Can please someone provide information on the following:

location of Asicminer (Bitquan)
details of this "David" and his whereabouts address etc.

We will be looking for legal assistance somewhere near those locations. Perhaps someone can recommend a legal practice willing to assist/represent us in this matter?

I can imagine that if it comes to fraud Chinese state is quite harsh especially when it emerges from some dodgy cryptocurrencies/bitcoin industry. I think we may have quite strong argument at hand to convince all those people that it is in their best interest to find quickly a solution for the problem no matter if FC is alive or dead.

Fully agree, found email to report them to 1.   Ministry of Public Security (MPS) they cover 6)   use of the Internet for theft, fraud and extortion; their email is http://www.cyberpolice.cn not sure if its best to all separtely email them or as a group, what your guys think?

We want them to pay and it may be difficult to do so from behind the bars. We need Chinese lawyers to make contact with them. I think criminal option is the last resort when everything else fails.

Just some thoughts:

If you have ever dealt with some Chinese officials regarding a fraud case, you know that this is - to say it politely - difficult. Often it turns out that they find fraudsters, get money from them and let them go. Happened more than once in cases I was involved in as a researcher.

The same is true with lawyers. You HAVE to know who you are dealing with, and the best is often someone who is not from the area.

Also consider hiring a private investigator. This is risky, though, for the Chinese officials don't like other people doing the research. However, there are some who come out from governmental agencies and know how to find evidence, persons and hiding their own tracks at the same time.

Just my 2 cents.

I have never had any experience with Chinese lawyers. Perhaps the best way would be to do so thorough HK. But it would be very costly.

I would rather try the hard way and find someone locally, preferably in the area where Bitquan is. This case is about white collar crime against people from various jurisdictions and the Chinese as well. It is way to early to discuss the retainer however it has to be someone with good English and willing to assist us. Perhaps those people will hire someone so it will be much easier. Should we not succeed wit recovering our hashrate and the coins we will just ask the lawyer to file an official complaint against all the parties involved in it and see what happens. But no matter how uncivilized China is I do not think that Bitquan people want to be involved in such a proceedings as it is very likely to end up in a criminal court. Do you think that someone will be doing any business with them?

I'll contact the guys I worked with in the past and ask them what they could do. May take a day or two, though.

[l3sny]

Excellent. Please PM me for further communication.

[NotLambchop]

... Perhaps those people will hire someone so it will be much easier...
But no matter how uncivilized China is I do not think that Bitquan people want to be involved in such a proceedings as it is very likely to end up in a criminal court. Do you think that someone will be doing any business with them?

You mean, friedcat's Bitcointalk username is burn?  And he'll have to buy another shell/shelf (perhaps Panamanian, this time?) to do business under?  B... bu...but that seems like so much work?!

[mr_e]

@RealMalatesta Thanks please let us know if they can assist.

[l3sny]

... Perhaps those people will hire someone so it will be much easier...
But no matter how uncivilized China is I do not think that Bitquan people want to be involved in such a proceedings as it is very likely to end up in a criminal court. Do you think that someone will be doing any business with them?

You mean, friedcat's Bitcointalk username is burn?  And he'll have to buy another shell/shelf (perhaps Panamanian, this time?) to do business under?  B... bu...but that seems like so much work?!

I am talking Bitquan, the plant, factory, business, people, trust, credibility ...

[delightcoin]

To all victims of this scam,

I suggest we open some group somewhere, something like Google Groups or Facebook Group or etc. so that we can communicate faster and get to know each other more to co-operate better. We have to unite and smash those scammers. I wanna help, but because we are not collective, I don't know where to start. As I said, we could open up a new group (I thought of a new thread here, but trolls are hindering us with their useless and distracting posts, that's why it is much better to open a group in some other platform) and make collaboration and assignments for everyone which determines who is going to do what. This could help us solve this problem more effective and fast. In short, let's organize!

[NotLambchop]

... Perhaps those people will hire someone so it will be much easier...
But no matter how uncivilized China is I do not think that Bitquan people want to be involved in such a proceedings as it is very likely to end up in a criminal court. Do you think that someone will be doing any business with them?

You mean, friedcat's Bitcointalk username is burn?  And he'll have to buy another shell/shelf (perhaps Panamanian, this time?) to do business under?  B... bu...but that seems like so much work?!

I am talking Bitquan, the plant, factory, business, people, trust, credibility ...

>Bitquan
Never heard of it until today.  Server used for AM email, you mean?

>the plant
What plant?  You mean a factory somewhere?  You know where?  Why should a factory care?

>business
What do you mean?  What business?  You mean the legal entity the name of which you don't even know?  The one that has your coin?  It served its purpose, it's done.  Those kids will register a new one.  Or just tell you they did. You didn't check AM's corporate data, did you?

>people, trust, credibility
What are you talking about?  You don't even know the names of these people.  They'll come up with new forum account names, rinse, and repeat.

[delightcoin]

You are just trolling around here, hindering the efforts of others. If you won't help out, the least you can do is to shut up!

... Perhaps those people will hire someone so it will be much easier...
But no matter how uncivilized China is I do not think that Bitquan people want to be involved in such a proceedings as it is very likely to end up in a criminal court. Do you think that someone will be doing any business with them?

You mean, friedcat's Bitcointalk username is burn?  And he'll have to buy another shell/shelf (perhaps Panamanian, this time?) to do business under?  B... bu...but that seems like so much work?!

I am talking Bitquan, the plant, factory, business, people, trust, credibility ...

>Bitquan
Never heard of it until today.  Server used for AM email, you mean?

>the plant
What plant?  You mean a factory somewhere?  You know where?  Why should a factory care?

>business
What do you mean?  What business?  You mean the legal entity the name of which you don't even know?  The one that has your coin?  It served its purpose, it's done.  Those kids will register a new one.  Or just tell you they did. You didn't check AM's corporate data, did you?

>people, trust, credibility
What are you talking about?  You don't even know the names of these people.  They'll come up with new forum account names, rinse, and repeat.

[l3sny]

To all victims of this scam,

I suggest we open some group somewhere, something like Google Groups or Facebook Group or etc. so that we can communicate faster and get to know each other more to co-operate better. We have to unite and smash those scammers. I wanna help, but because we are not collective, I don't know where to start. As I said, we could open up a new group (I thought of a new thread here, but trolls are hindering us with their useless and distracting posts, that's why it is much better to open a group in some other platform) and make collaboration and assignments for everyone which determines who is going to do what. This could help us solve this problem more effective and fast. In short, let's organize!

Hiya!
I have discussed this with AirWolf and a couple of other amhash investors. We will start a new thread tomorrow evening Eastern European time to handle the things in more effective fashion. It will be a sort of co-ordinating committee of 3 people including myself. I need a day to prepare it, it will be a moderated thread I think. We welcome all Amhash investors willing to contribute in any way to recover our assets.

[l3sny]

NotLambchop is ok. His trolling is one I enjoy

[monbux]

To all victims of this scam,

I suggest we open some group somewhere, something like Google Groups or Facebook Group or etc. so that we can communicate faster and get to know each other more to co-operate better. We have to unite and smash those scammers. I wanna help, but because we are not collective, I don't know where to start. As I said, we could open up a new group (I thought of a new thread here, but trolls are hindering us with their useless and distracting posts, that's why it is much better to open a group in some other platform) and make collaboration and assignments for everyone which determines who is going to do what. This could help us solve this problem more effective and fast. In short, let's organize!

Hiya!
I have discussed this with AirWolf and a couple of other amhash investors. We will start a new thread tomorrow evening Eastern European time to handle the things in more effective fashion. It will be a sort of co-ordinating committee of 3 people including myself. I need a day to prepare it, it will be a moderated thread I think. We welcome all Amhash investors willing to contribute in any way to recover our assets.

So, let me get this straight:  AMHASH has pretty much crashed and all the shares that we have on havelockinvestments are frozen, cannot sell, and we aren't getting paid diviends?
I'm just getting back to this, when was the last time we heard from amhash?

[Mabsark]

@AirWolf
do not be too quick too judge. Let's wait for official translation.
I cannot see how asicminer plans to get off the hook in all this. because it it turns out that they had 110nm ponzi and lied about the theft of the miners all we have a company that's name was used in this. It is impossible to assume that asicminer did not know of the AMHash existence and that they were technically involved as Asicminer's name and people were there.

@l3sny

Using 110nm chips in late 2014 is, as i speculate it before, almost like a nonfunctional box, just for fooling us and probably HL and RM. to give you an example, I have 3 miners of 60GHS each bought in late 2012 that are based on 65nm chips , yes, you read it right 2012.

To build a farm over first generation chips in 2014 an sell cloudmining shares of it is outright SCAM and paying dividends over it is a PONZI.

LETS NOT FOOL OURSELVES OVER THIS. WE HAVE BEEN FOOLED ENOUGH

They wasn't using 110nm chips in late 2014. BE100 was 110nm, BE200 was 40nm. BE200 is the chip used by Tubes and Prismas sold in 2014. Those miners are in peoples hands, have had multiple independent reviews and couldn't possibly be based on BE100. These are all well known facts so what you are saying is just complete nonsense. It also goes to show how pathetic you are at actually doing any research.

[Mabsark]

So, let me get this straight:  AMHASH has pretty much crashed and all the shares that we have on havelockinvestments are frozen, cannot sell, and we aren't getting paid diviends?
I'm just getting back to this, when was the last time we heard from amhash?

Most of the info that's been provided here is total bullshit. Just read amhash's latest posts to get get the latest info.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=388726;sa=showPosts

[NotLambchop]

You are just trolling around here, hindering the efforts of others. If you won't help out, the least you can do is to shut up!
...

Hindering whose efforts exactly, newfriend?  Efforts to do what?
If you're talking about (possible) efforts at misdirection, I can't care less if those are hindered.
If, OTOH, you mean explaining that the absurd shit proposed here is 100% doomed to failure and further assrape, that's called "caring," that's called "help."

@Mobsark:  Why not take delightcoin's advice?  If you can't positively contribute, just STFU.  Ur coin's gone, and your AM pimping didn't even help u one bit.
Justice

[l3sny]

@Mabsark
Pathetic? We can make mistakes and errors in our judgements and interpretations on what has actually happen right?
We have to wait for the proper translation.

[NotLambchop]

Pathetic? We can make mistakes and errors in our judgements and interpretations on what has actually happen right?
We have to wait for the proper translation.

What will that show?
You're translating what, something posted by Rock Xie (always tempted to just type Roxy), an associate of friedcats?  He's disseminatin' some incriminatin' truths now, because he wants to haelp!?

[l3sny]

He wants to get off the hook! Let it go

[Mabsark]

@Mabsark
Pathetic? We can make mistakes and errors in our judgements and interpretations on what has actually happen right?
We have to wait for the proper translation.

None of what I said needs translation. BE100 was used in the Block Erupter line of miners, BE200 is used in Tubes and Prismas. They're well known facts and even the slightest bit of research would confirm that.

To claim that Tubes and Prismas use 110nm ASICs is beyond retarded.