GAW / Josh Garza discussion Paycoin XPY xpy.io ION ionomy. ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :)

[eightcylinders]

lets take it as a hypothetical then   im interested on your take on it

to me that you would go that far with minimal leg work & no concrete proof in your hands just seems wrong. specially if your plan is to squish it by prolonging it

This will probably get the anti-lawyer folks up in arms, but here it goes:

A lawyer's primary duty is to his or her client, not the public and certainly not a potential defendant.  Except for certain limited instances, a lawyer is not required to fact-check a client to ensure that they are on the up and up.

The exceptions to that are:  (1) when a lawsuit is filed, because courts do not want to waste their time dealing with half baked  unsupportable claims, a lawyer must conduct a reasonable investigation to confirm facts and law, (2) a lawyer cannot provide advise or assistance to knowlingly aid a client in fraud or the commission of a crime (with apologies to Saul), (3) a lawyer must be honest and civil in deals with third parties (a lawyer could not lie in a C&D; for example, could not say "I have reviewed the Amazon agreement" etc.)

There are a few other very limited exceptions but those are the big ones.  That is **only** the ethical duty, however, not whether its a good idea to proceed to a C&D on the word of your client alone.

As far as whether it was a good idea for BM to proceed to a C&D without conducting an investigation, that is a different question as I said above.  It is **not** a good idea for three reasons at least.  

First, it does a disservice to the client IMHO.  When the bluff is called, the client (and law firm) lose a lot of credibility when they fail to follow through with a lawsuit.  Clients frequently ask me to send C&Ds to try to bully smaller companies, and I always say the same thing: I will only send a C&D if you are able to provide a sufficient retainer to pay my fees throughout a lawsuit, and you are ready, willing and able to initiate a lawsuit if there is no compliance by the deadline.  No bluffs, they are bad for the client's and the firm's reputation.

Second, sending a C&D without an investigation for any kind of internet activity risks a major backlash (as happened here).  It is a pretty common defense to simply post the C&D for the world to see, and let the public response do its job.  Absent a real wrong, most people hate it when lawyers send C&Ds (especially to journalists or web sites) .. doing so almost ALWAYS backfires badly, and I personally have dissuaded several clients from making this mistake.

Third, for the reasons above, if I send a C&D client I need to be ready to follow through with the lawsuit.  Which means, I won't send a C&D without first making sure I can sign my name to a lawsuit.. which in turn means I have to conduct an investigation anyway because filing a lawsuit requires such.  But that is just my practice (and the practice of most top lawyers I know), not an ethical requirement.

[Paul Revere]

P.S: These comments about a potential fix of Paycoin not being on topic here are every bit as absurd as the fix suggestions themselves.

If that comment was towards me, I do not find the discussion to be off topic. I just find that the discussion to be hugely important as a general philosophical discussion. However here when it is just about paycoin it is a very crappy discussion about a very crappy coin so in here it is just crap. Not off-topic but crap.

My intent with discussing possible fixes to Paycoin here is primarily in relation to the fact that supposedly upstanding members of the crypto community are volunteering to do something that I know for sure will actually help Garza & Co. and the entire Paycoin  scheme and enable them to ensnare more victims. There are also some legal and moral quandaries involved. If this discussion bothers you, then tough shit. You are quite free to go start or join some other thread to follow the topic as you see fit. I am not following that thread fork, thanks.

I am not bothered. I am a little amused for many things including that you seem to take this so seriously.

You are not bothered, yet you find it necessary to whine like a bitch. Fascinating. I will decide what is important to me and discuss things on that basis. If that amuses you, you are quite welcome to sit around and giggle like a fucking idiot all you like.

[ab8989]

whine? really? bitch?

[coinits]

To Eric and Joe back away from PayCoin 100% and destroy your coins. Prove it.

Actions speak louder than words. Publicly state that PayCoin is a pre-mined scam coin and the whole enterprise, and anyone involved with its development, promotion, or sale is a scammer.

I do not, nor have I ever, owned a single Paycoin.

I was never issued any by the company, nor have I ever purchased one from the company nor any person or exchange.

The only time I've ever interacted with Paycoin was building the company wallets and initial prime controller daemons.

TL;DR, I have no coins to destroy, kind sir.

In my opinion Eric has proven (and has been proven through documents I've read) he was one of the clean ones involved in the company and got out when he realized the big picture.  Joe on the other hand sits on the council of Primes. Off the top of my head he owns 5 PC's and is leasing some out to XPYtrust.

So it looks like Eric gets a pass. Joe does not. He can start the path to righteousness by destroying all of his coins and prime controllers.

[coinits]

Other than gocoin, he doesn't even appear to be trying to partner with anyone else. There's no ignored emails sent to amazon, target, shopify, paypal, tesla, etc.

That's even more premeditated. There's no to corporate@amazon.com please take my shitcoin, I already said you would.


And where's bitjane? Did he have sexual relations with her too?

WOW! Ignorant beyond belief. Get a life!

Can I just check, going by the username, and the fair and justified offence that appears to be taken from the last line of the comment you responded to, that this is bitJane?

BitJane, just to be clear, is a woman who acted as a paid paycoin shill for months, then some day woke up to the reality of the fraud and thought that posting something like "oops, sorry" on her blog would be enough to spare her from the consequences of her wrongdoing.

Latest from her Twitter account and she just doesn't get it. Raffles off 'dirty' money for charity. Ummm if it is dirty destroy BitJane.

Interview here: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/the-bitcoin-game-15-fun-interviews-at-the-texas-bitcoin-conference-kickoff-party I have not listened yet so this should be fun.

https://i.imgur.com/V8L4qJF.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8797/16963612598_6112303327_b.jpg

Yes, you should listen to it.  And also read the blog you refer to.  BitJane was never paid.
She turned her so-called "dirty" XPY into $1550 in BITCOIN for Sean's Outpost.
Stop spreading BS. 

First learn how to quote and two there was no BS. I did listen to it. Not once but twice. She, in her own words, gave 'dirty money' to charity. Think of the logic of that for a moment you stupid fuck.

[miaviator]

TheMage, Paul Revere, eightcylinders XPY discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033894.0

I migrated the content I could find.

I'll clean up all the nested quotes and add whatever changes people have.

Since THIS thread is primarily to expose the fraud?  Make fun of Josh? etc.

[jmordica]

To Eric and Joe back away from PayCoin 100% and destroy your coins. Prove it.

Actions speak louder than words. Publicly state that PayCoin is a pre-mined scam coin and the whole enterprise, and anyone involved with its development, promotion, or sale is a scammer.

I do not, nor have I ever, owned a single Paycoin.

I was never issued any by the company, nor have I ever purchased one from the company nor any person or exchange.

The only time I've ever interacted with Paycoin was building the company wallets and initial prime controller daemons.

TL;DR, I have no coins to destroy, kind sir.

In my opinion Eric has proven (and has been proven through documents I've read) he was one of the clean ones involved in the company and got out when he realized the big picture.  Joe on the other hand sits on the council of Primes. Off the top of my head he owns 5 PC's and is leasing some out to XPYtrust.

I will say this once again. I do not own anything (Paycoin or Prime Controllers). Hopefully this is clear. I never owned a Prime Controller. I never owned a single Paycoin (or a fraction of it). I was part of the team that worked on the Paycoin project. I was promised Paycoin among other things but never received any compensation/assets besides my salary while working at GAW (which I assume you have all seen by now).

I am a volunteer on the XPYTrust board which manages 5 Prime Controllers. I am in the process of putting together a bold approach to burn many of the Controller Coins and stake. When this proposal is finished I will present to Paycoin Foundation and XPY Dev for review. The plan consists of some of the items discussed a couple of pages back in this thread referring to a 50% cut of the coin and hyperinflation.

I believe this to be the only approach (if executed correctly) to give Paycoin a chance at survival. I will be offering up my position as a volunteer on the XPYTrust board if this approach (or something similar) fails to be successful and/or gets complete.

XPY has taking a beating (for obvious reasons) and may not be able to stand for much more without such drastic change to the current design.

[Paul Revere]

TheMage, Paul Revere, eightcylinders XPY discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033894.0

I migrated the content I could find.

I'll clean up all the nested quotes and add whatever changes people have.

Since THIS thread is primarily to expose the fraud?  Make fun of Josh? etc.

Community members "volunteering" (supposedly )  to patch up Paycoin, which will benefit Josh and the rest of the major XPY holders and allow this scam to continue on is completely relevant to this discussion. Please refrain from trying to divert such an important aspect as this to another thread where it will not get the attention in the proper context that it deserves.

[strangerdanger101]

TheMage, Paul Revere, eightcylinders XPY discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033894.0

I migrated the content I could find.

I'll clean up all the nested quotes and add whatever changes people have.

Since THIS thread is primarily to expose the fraud?  Make fun of Josh? etc.

circlejerk over dank memes mostly 

[miaviator]

TheMage, Paul Revere, eightcylinders XPY discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033894.0

I migrated the content I could find.

I'll clean up all the nested quotes and add whatever changes people have.

Since THIS thread is primarily to expose the fraud?  Make fun of Josh? etc.

Community members "volunteering" (supposedly )  to patch up Paycoin, which will benefit Josh and the rest of the major XPY holders and allow this scam to continue on is completely relevant to this discussion. Please refrain from trying to divert such an important aspect as this to another thread where it will not get the attention in the proper context that it deserves.

Send me all of your bitcoins Paul Revere.

Immediatly.

[deep.throat]

I will say this once again. I do not own anything (Paycoin or Prime Controllers). Hopefully this is clear. I never owned a Prime Controller. I never owned a single Paycoin (or a fraction of it). I was part of the team that worked on the Paycoin project. I was promised Paycoin among other things but never received any compensation/assets besides my salary while working at GAW (which I assume you have all seen by now).

You were negotiating with Homoro for PC's in your wrongful termination lawsuit, Joe - we have those emails. Just because you didn't have enough of a case to grab them from Homero's greedy fingers doesn't absolve you of your attempt to control one or more of them on your own. Further, you were not 'part of the team' - you were the CTO of GAW - the technology (or lack thereof) produced by GAW is on you.

This is not about what you own at this point - this is about what you do once the fraud is revealed to you. You know everything there is to know at this point about this just like everyone else, and you ARE STILL INVOLVED. Pay, no pay, you are still dragging this on by helping the lesser of the greedy fuckholes continue this project. Resign.

[Paul Revere]

TheMage, Paul Revere, eightcylinders XPY discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033894.0

I migrated the content I could find.

I'll clean up all the nested quotes and add whatever changes people have.

Since THIS thread is primarily to expose the fraud?  Make fun of Josh? etc.

circlejerk over dank memes mostly 

[kken01]

eightcylinders thanks for that. its very illuminating and has made me re-evaluate few things i can take more distance and look at some of the correspondence with lawyers more neutrally. it looked like some of the lawyer(s) had an emotional component in all of this but in actuality it was just talk to retain the customer (maybe not in good taste. but oh well even the guilty need lawyers and im sure he would have chosen someone more... lets say amicable). Mr. Garbazzo had many different law firms during the fraud so he could control the message exactly like he wanted to any one entity


ps:
i fully agree with Paul its integral in the grand scheme of things. currently Mr. Garbozo + co are staking at 100%. this thing is an ongoing fraud still. if you cant take posts that are spit-balling ideas maybe this is not the place for you, or you can check page 1 for updated details as they are confirmed. it would be a very dry and boring thread if there was no commentary/analysis along the way

about the current fork thats in place: Garza tried to battle it saying his lawyers will handle it. now he is all on board? something changed. is he trying to gain control again...
the fact that miavitor and jmordica are on board with decreasing or even removing PC's leave only few options left. who the hell is currently against it (if any except GAW)? was this only a starting salvo to start phasing out Mr. Garbanzo. who are the controlling parties in GAW's portion of PC's... eg. is Stu activating legal means to gain some control

or is it all talk by current "ruling party" to try and keep price stable enough to unload more on "the muggles"

[strangerdanger101]

TheMage, Paul Revere, eightcylinders XPY discussion https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1033894.0

I migrated the content I could find.

I'll clean up all the nested quotes and add whatever changes people have.

Since THIS thread is primarily to expose the fraud?  Make fun of Josh? etc.

circlejerk over dank memes mostly 

mmmm mmm thats dank 

[miaviator]

specially this Brian Klein of Baker Marquart
probably integral to the fraud in other ways  what a piece of shit

If you have something on lawyers for professional misconduct send the details and lodge a formal complaint to their governing body. Probably has to be someone on the same country and if in the same state all the better. I do not know if it can be done anonymously though.

If you have something on lawyers for professional misconduct post it and I'll go to the state bar with a non-anonymous complaint.

[jmordica]

I will say this once again. I do not own anything (Paycoin or Prime Controllers). Hopefully this is clear. I never owned a Prime Controller. I never owned a single Paycoin (or a fraction of it). I was part of the team that worked on the Paycoin project. I was promised Paycoin among other things but never received any compensation/assets besides my salary while working at GAW (which I assume you have all seen by now).

You were negotiating with Homoro for PC's in your wrongful termination lawsuit, Joe - we have those emails. Just because you didn't have enough of a case to grab them from Homero's greedy fingers doesn't absolve you of your attempt to control one or more of them on your own. Further, you were not 'part of the team' - you were the CTO of GAW - the technology (or lack thereof) produced by GAW is on you.

This is not about what you own at this point - this is about what you do once the fraud is revealed to you. You know everything there is to know at this point about this just like everyone else, and you ARE STILL INVOLVED. Pay, no pay, you are still dragging this on by helping the lesser of the greedy fuckholes continue this project. Resign.

Please read my whole post before responding (instead of avoiding to quote my plan to either revive the coin or give up my position).

[ladrx]

To Eric and Joe back away from PayCoin 100% and destroy your coins. Prove it.

Actions speak louder than words. Publicly state that PayCoin is a pre-mined scam coin and the whole enterprise, and anyone involved with its development, promotion, or sale is a scammer.

I do not, nor have I ever, owned a single Paycoin.

I was never issued any by the company, nor have I ever purchased one from the company nor any person or exchange.

The only time I've ever interacted with Paycoin was building the company wallets and initial prime controller daemons.

TL;DR, I have no coins to destroy, kind sir.

In my opinion Eric has proven (and has been proven through documents I've read) he was one of the clean ones involved in the company and got out when he realized the big picture.  Joe on the other hand sits on the council of Primes. Off the top of my head he owns 5 PC's and is leasing some out to XPYtrust.

I will say this once again. I do not own anything (Paycoin or Prime Controllers). Hopefully this is clear. I never owned a Prime Controller. I never owned a single Paycoin (or a fraction of it). I was part of the team that worked on the Paycoin project. I was promised Paycoin among other things but never received any compensation/assets besides my salary while working at GAW (which I assume you have all seen by now).

I am a volunteer on the XPYTrust board which manages 5 Prime Controllers. I am in the process of putting together a bold approach to burn many of the Controller Coins and stake. When this proposal is finished I will present to Paycoin Foundation and XPY Dev for review. The plan consists of some of the items discussed a couple of pages back in this thread referring to a 50% cut of the coin and hyperinflation.

I believe this to be the only approach (if executed correctly) to give Paycoin a chance at survival. I will be offering up my position as a volunteer on the XPYTrust board if this approach (or something similar) fails to be successful and/or gets complete.

XPY has taking a beating (for obvious reasons) and may not be able to stand for much more without such drastic change to the current design.

Um Joe, we have all the emails where you blackmailed Josh Garza and then he came up with the offer of a prime controller(s) to pay you off. How do you reconcile this with your bullshit story? 

[deep.throat]

I will say this once again. I do not own anything (Paycoin or Prime Controllers). Hopefully this is clear. I never owned a Prime Controller. I never owned a single Paycoin (or a fraction of it). I was part of the team that worked on the Paycoin project. I was promised Paycoin among other things but never received any compensation/assets besides my salary while working at GAW (which I assume you have all seen by now).

You were negotiating with Homoro for PC's in your wrongful termination lawsuit, Joe - we have those emails. Just because you didn't have enough of a case to grab them from Homero's greedy fingers doesn't absolve you of your attempt to control one or more of them on your own. Further, you were not 'part of the team' - you were the CTO of GAW - the technology (or lack thereof) produced by GAW is on you.

This is not about what you own at this point - this is about what you do once the fraud is revealed to you. You know everything there is to know at this point about this just like everyone else, and you ARE STILL INVOLVED. Pay, no pay, you are still dragging this on by helping the lesser of the greedy fuckholes continue this project. Resign.

Please read my whole post before responding (instead of avoiding to quote my plan to either revive the coin or give up my position).

Are you saying that I neglected to comment on the part about you aspiring to redemption by posing a plan to burn the PC coins and stake therefrom? Fair enough:

If you think the Foundation or anyone else is going to approve your code to burn the PC coins and controllers, you have learned nothing about the situation you are in sir. Your naivete is galling and frankly childish. Further, sir, you are working for people who have NO RIGHT to be making decisions for anyone in the community. What/who gave them their entitlement to enact anything on behalf of Paycoin? It can be strongly argued Homoro Garbanzo did - so it's fine by you that the criminal you left for 'ethical' reasons handed the PC's over to the new, greedy criminals you work for and that gives them entitlement? WTF are you thinking?

Anything you do PERPETUATES this situation - allows for more people to be drawn into this shitstorm.

And before you fire back that @huey and @sciborg and others haven't been proven to be criminals or intending to do further harm, check yourself. You would have said the same thing about your former employer a few months ago, Joe. Their first move, had they been good actors in all of this would have been to ELIMINATE the PC's and/or the stake UNTIL their efforts had provided liquidity for the COMMUNITY of harmed investors - NOT themselves. That would have been the first, necessary step in doing ANYTHING to remove the stench from this project. Because they did not to this, their intentions are clearly not in sync with the interests of the people in the community.

RESIGN.

[Paul Revere]

People who are accused of complicity in crimes claim they are completely innocent and have fancy stories to justify their actions? Holy Cow! This is earth shattering news! I am sure this has never before happened in the annals of human history. 

[welchy8764]

To Eric and Joe back away from PayCoin 100% and destroy your coins. Prove it.

Actions speak louder than words. Publicly state that PayCoin is a pre-mined scam coin and the whole enterprise, and anyone involved with its development, promotion, or sale is a scammer.

I do not, nor have I ever, owned a single Paycoin.

I was never issued any by the company, nor have I ever purchased one from the company nor any person or exchange.

The only time I've ever interacted with Paycoin was building the company wallets and initial prime controller daemons.

TL;DR, I have no coins to destroy, kind sir.

In my opinion Eric has proven (and has been proven through documents I've read) he was one of the clean ones involved in the company and got out when he realized the big picture.  Joe on the other hand sits on the council of Primes. Off the top of my head he owns 5 PC's and is leasing some out to XPYtrust.

I will say this once again. I do not own anything (Paycoin or Prime Controllers). Hopefully this is clear. I never owned a Prime Controller. I never owned a single Paycoin (or a fraction of it). I was part of the team that worked on the Paycoin project. I was promised Paycoin among other things but never received any compensation/assets besides my salary while working at GAW (which I assume you have all seen by now).

I am a volunteer on the XPYTrust board which manages 5 Prime Controllers. I am in the process of putting together a bold approach to burn many of the Controller Coins and stake. When this proposal is finished I will present to Paycoin Foundation and XPY Dev for review. The plan consists of some of the items discussed a couple of pages back in this thread referring to a 50% cut of the coin and hyperinflation.

I believe this to be the only approach (if executed correctly) to give Paycoin a chance at survival. I will be offering up my position as a volunteer on the XPYTrust board if this approach (or something similar) fails to be successful and/or gets complete.

XPY has taking a beating (for obvious reasons) and may not be able to stand for much more without such drastic change to the current design.

Um Joe, we have all the emails where you blackmailed Josh Garza and then he came up with the offer of a prime controller(s) to pay you off. How do you reconcile this with your bullshit story? 

This guy was dealing with someone who is a sociopath. I don't blame him for his efforts to get paid what he is owed.