Recovery program beginning in January for PB Mining customers.

[rideron]

Hashie is down too  https://hashie.co
Let it go!

[MichaelNZ]

same happens with hashie....no paymant....

My Cointerra mining accounts haven't paid out yet either

It's looking more and more like we've reached the tipping point ... the point where it's no longer profitable to mine and cloud miners are all going to fold like a house of cards in the breeze !!!
I sure hope not because that's going cost a lot of people a lot of money and further blacken the name and intention of bitcoin and crypto-currencies generally.

[alienesb]

same happens with hashie....no paymant....

My Cointerra mining accounts haven't paid out yet either

It's looking more and more like we've reached the tipping point ... the point where it's no longer profitable to mine and cloud miners are all going to fold like a house of cards in the breeze !!!
I sure hope not because that's going cost a lot of people a lot of money and further blacken the name and intention of bitcoin and crypto-currencies generally.

If they fold and hashrate goes down great. Problem is there is no hashrate with these scams so you're just out BTC and the band keeps marching on.

[galdur]

Well, what we have in this bitcoin business is inverse correlation

between the price of product and the amount of resources being

put into production. The obvious result of this very dysfunctional

behavior of producers is that borrowing product to dump on the

market and then cover later at lower prices becomes constantly a

100% sure thing. So, the production seems to be a scam of some

sort, a ponzi scheme if you will. Best of luck, g

[galdur]

[finbad]

Well, what we have in this bitcoin business is inverse correlation

between the price of product and the amount of resources being

put into production. The obvious result of this very dysfunctional

behavior of producers is that borrowing product to dump on the

market and then cover later at lower prices becomes constantly a

100% sure thing. So, the production seems to be a scam of some

sort, a ponzi scheme if you will. Best of luck, g
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You have a very short term view,  correct as it may seem.

take all the BTC that will be mined, derive the total number of satoshis

and it will be close to the aggregate of all the countries smallest monetary denominations.     ON THE PLANET.

at the end the satoshi will rule.

end might be 80 years out tho.

[MichaelNZ]

Charts ....

I've been closely watching the BTC market since the beginning of this year ... After I'd done the research I was going to buy a TM iv from CT, but because of the crappy way they choose to do business coupled with all the other manufacturers dumping Peta hash after Peta hash into the market the difficulty rate skyrocketed into stupidity.

In Feb 2014 a 2.0 Th/s BTC miner was looking at $75-90,000 income, ROI in a few weeks

After Mt Gox went belly up, the arse really dropped out of the market and BTC/USD fell constantly to the pitiful levels we see today ... Yes people will say the price was over inflated and is now at it's correct level ... Maybe that is true, but the trigger that saw the start of the fall was Mt Gox.

Today it would be pointless to even turn on that same 2.0 Th/s miner because the cost of electricity to run it is more than it makes each day, week, month.
In fact even if you were lucky enough to get a "good" miner out of CT, you did your dough, it will never make back the money you spent on it.

That is why all cloud miners as far as I can see over sell their available hash power ... There is no way they could mine enough to cover all their costs and make a profit from it unless they over sell ... Does that make them a ponzi scheme ? Well, yes and no ... As far as I can see they are all at it, what it relies on is the company maintaining it's reputation and attractiveness to customers so they continually support it.

What it looks like has happened with PBM is that a number of people goxed the crap out of every man and his dog and because of that, the reputation of the company was lost completely, so no more money coming in to maintain the scheme.

It is now obvious that Boyko was rampantly overselling whatever actual amount of hash power that was available ... perhaps as much as 100 times oversold and that is why PBM failed.

Had Boyko taken a more conservative approach and invested in more hash power as funds provided then PBM may have still been operating today.

I can only speculate as to his motivation, but I'd suggest he became blinded by the numbers and couldn't help himself ... basically, stupid boy !

[finbad]

I agree

the moment hash power declined he was toast.

he might be good with applied math, 

but not that bright,  my god,  the internet knows him and is intermediate family

not to mention the police.

[Phildo]

same happens with hashie....no paymant....

My Cointerra mining accounts haven't paid out yet either

It's looking more and more like we've reached the tipping point ... the point where it's no longer profitable to mine and cloud miners are all going to fold like a house of cards in the breeze !!!
I sure hope not because that's going cost a lot of people a lot of money and further blacken the name and intention of bitcoin and crypto-currencies generally.

Weird how people with actual miners hope the difficulty will go down so they get more coins but all these cloud mining groups seem to fall apart when the difficulty goes down.

Wonder why that's the case.

[galdur]

same happens with hashie....no paymant....

My Cointerra mining accounts haven't paid out yet either

It's looking more and more like we've reached the tipping point ... the point where it's no longer profitable to mine and cloud miners are all going to fold like a house of cards in the breeze !!!
I sure hope not because that's going cost a lot of people a lot of money and further blacken the name and intention of bitcoin and crypto-currencies generally.

Weird how people with actual miners hope the difficulty will go down so they get more coins but all these cloud mining groups seem to fall apart when the difficulty goes down.

Wonder why that's the case.

They hedge using shorting instruments that pay if the difficulty goes up.

[byteSized]

same happens with hashie....no paymant....

My Cointerra mining accounts haven't paid out yet either

It's looking more and more like we've reached the tipping point ... the point where it's no longer profitable to mine and cloud miners are all going to fold like a house of cards in the breeze !!!
I sure hope not because that's going cost a lot of people a lot of money and further blacken the name and intention of bitcoin and crypto-currencies generally.

My hashnest account seems to be doing fine though.

But soon I think it'll be best to sell the GHS and get out with a profit while I still can.

[I_IZ_CEO]

same happens with hashie....no paymant....

My Cointerra mining accounts haven't paid out yet either

It's looking more and more like we've reached the tipping point ... the point where it's no longer profitable to mine and cloud miners are all going to fold like a house of cards in the breeze !!!
I sure hope not because that's going cost a lot of people a lot of money and further blacken the name and intention of bitcoin and crypto-currencies generally.

My hashnest account seems to be doing fine though.

But soon I think it'll be best to sell the GHS and get out with a profit while I still can.

I would say to RUN NOW while you can.
Good luck!

[rponder]

go to amhash.com, and you will see how to transfer your gh!!!

[byteSized]

I would say to RUN NOW while you can.
Good luck!

Just waiting for my GHS to sell then I'm out.

The cloudmining game's too full of ponzis and scams.

Might try bitcoin lending at BTCJam next, but then who's to say they're any better. 

[Puppet]

Might try bitcoin lending at BTCJam next, but then who's to say they're any better.  

Now that people are finally beginning to wake up to the reality of cloudmining, perhaps I should focus my attention on the next looming disaster: lending bitcoins. Here is what I wrote in another thread:


Lending bitcoins is generally an even worse idea than (cloud) mining. Its hard to see why a legitimate borrower would want to borrow bitcoins, considering its volatility. Most investments and costs are still fiat denominated, so the exchange risk is enormous for a borrower, he might see his debt double or triple in mere months.  The sad reality is that most of these borrowers will end up using the BTC for (cloudmining) ponzi's and will default on their loans when said ponzi collapses, for gambling (same thing, you might as well gamble yourself), as a way to short sell bitcoin (probably resulting in a default  if BTC price goes up significantly) or plain old scamming the lenders by taking out ever bigger loans, increasing their credibility rating each time, until one day, they run. Cloudmining is usually a bad idea, lending out BTC an even worse one.

As for 'investing'; there is pretty much nothing you should even consider investing BTC in. Out of 100's or 1000's of IPO and scheme's Ive seen over the years, I can name precisely ONE that actually returned substantially more to its investors than it collected (asicminer). There are plenty of BTC related companies  I would like to be able to invest in (bitpay to name just one), but none of them raise capital through BTC, for the same reasons explained above.

In the end, bitcoin itself is your investment. Dont try to 'grow' it, you dont do that with an investment in gold or silver either.  Put it in a cold wallet and hang on to it. Thats the only truly sensible thing you can do with it, besides using it for buying stuff.

[alienesb]

Bridge loans already starting to crop up. If LTCG does not come back online then there will be a lot of BTCjam pain.

[jseppeli]

Charts ....

That is why all cloud miners as far as I can see over sell their available hash power ... There is no way they could mine enough to cover all their costs and make a profit from it unless they over sell ... Does that make them a ponzi scheme ? Well, yes and no ... As far as I can see they are all at it, what it relies on is the company maintaining it's reputation and attractiveness to customers so they continually support it.

Many of the cloudmining farms are located in China where electricity is cheap. Hashnest announced 18.11.2014 that the electricity price has been lowered to CNY 0.6/kWh which is ~0.005$/kWh.
I live in Finland and here a newer miner is still making some profit but not much and the electricity price is ~0.12€/kWh (~0.146$/kWh)

I would say to RUN NOW while you can.
Good luck!

Just waiting for my GHS to sell then I'm out.

The cloudmining game's too full of ponzis and scams.

Might try bitcoin lending at BTCJam next, but then who's to say they're any better. 

I don't recommend btcjam because of the amount of scammers there. Many of the applications are scammers who want to borrow but never pay back the borrowed BTC. I did try it for a couple of months and did end up losing over half of what I invested and finally sold all the loans I had invested in. Many of the scammers borrows some small amounts to build up reputation and then when reputation is at a good level they apply for a bigger loan and leave it unpaid.

[Phildo]

Might try bitcoin lending at BTCJam next, but then who's to say they're any better.  

Now that people are finally beginning to wake up to the reality of cloudmining, perhaps I should focus my attention on the next looming disaster: lending bitcoins. Here is what I wrote in another thread:


Lending bitcoins is generally an even worse idea than (cloud) mining. Its hard to see why a legitimate borrower would want to borrow bitcoins, considering its volatility. Most investments and costs are still fiat denominated, so the exchange risk is enormous for a borrower, he might see his debt double or triple in mere months.  The sad reality is that most of these borrowers will end up using the BTC for (cloudmining) ponzi's and will default on their loans when said ponzi collapses, for gambling (same thing, you might as well gamble yourself), as a way to short sell bitcoin (probably resulting in a default  if BTC price goes up significantly) or plain old scamming the lenders by taking out ever bigger loans, increasing their credibility rating each time, until one day, they run. Cloudmining is usually a bad idea, lending out BTC an even worse one.

As for 'investing'; there is pretty much nothing you should even consider investing BTC in. Out of 100's or 1000's of IPO and scheme's Ive seen over the years, I can name precisely ONE that actually returned substantially more to its investors than it collected (asicminer). There are plenty of BTC related companies  I would like to be able to invest in (bitpay to name just one), but none of them raise capital through BTC, for the same reasons explained above.

In the end, bitcoin itself is your investment. Dont try to 'grow' it, you dont do that with an investment in gold or silver either.  Put it in a cold wallet and hang on to it. Thats the only truly sensible thing you can do with it, besides using it for buying stuff.

I thought about taking a loan to get a truck for my business, but then decided against it and vowed not to lend money either when breaking it down. if the price of bitcoin stays the same, everyone would be happy. If the price goes down I could get the truck for much less than taking out an auto loan, and that would work for me, but not that great for the lender. If the price goes up there is no way I could pay the loan off, and I'm not enough of an asshole to run with the debt, so I didn't even look.

And that boils down to why it's dumb to lend bitcoins. If the price goes down you get back your worthless coins, if the price goes up you are probably fucked because if someone actually needs the loan they aren't going to be able to pay you back if there is a spike.

[finbad]

puppet you make a lot of sense

hash rate is growing,  btc to usd is going down

something has to give..

what will happen?

[eneloop]

It is possible to borrow USD tied at BTCJam for example. -> No problem with bitcoin volatility.