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Author Topic: Putting your money where Pirate's mouth is.  (Read 68296 times)
pirateat40
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July 06, 2012, 07:02:48 PM
 #101

I've been running BS&T awhile now and the ultimate goal to prove your case is that I don't have the coins to repay my lenders.

The terms I stated before are still the only way I'll play this game.

If I default (payments fall past-due longer than 7 days or BS&T is unable to process a withdraw after 72 hours.), you win.

If I return every coin to my lenders at anytime prior to the end of the bet or my operation last longer than the deadline, I win.

I have a solution for this that makes you no trouble at all, but keeps my constraints.

If you do an orderly shutdown, your half of the bet gets repaid a few weeks after the shutdown, but you must place it in again if you or BS&T start another Ponzi-suspicious endeavor within the bet's time-frame (anything that relies heavily on people lending you money). My half gets locked up until the end of the bet's time or a default, and if the end comes, is donated to charity.

Nobody suffers. Your funds don't get locked, the charity donation is at least as good in 2013 as it is today, and I need not fear you just faking a shutdown with some mountain of money from whatever previous heists of yours, or whatever strange tactics.

Edit: This is really just formulation stuff now. Unless you plan to shutdown quickly after the bet, just to start-up something very similar right afterwards, the clause is of no consequence to you. Wager comes back, charity gets paid automatically, no hassle for you at all.

Edit2: There has to be some way to make this simple. I'm trying to think up some way to formulate it that doesn't get too convoluted... gimme a moment.

Nope, the moment all my lenders have every coin back it's over.  I WIN.  Your slander towards me is about me running a Ponzi.  If I ran one, I would be way underwater by now.  This is an easy bet for you, since you know what I'm doing, right?

Those are my terms, lets play.

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July 06, 2012, 07:13:54 PM
 #102

Nope, the moment all my lenders have every coin back it's over.  I WIN.  Your slander towards me is about me running a Ponzi.  If I ran one, I would be way underwater by now.  This is an easy bet for you, since you know what I'm doing, right?

Those are my terms, lets play.

Either you're not reading my posts or trying to use double-inverse psychology on me. Read the post after that one.

We're preparing the contract, I'm in. I know this actually gives me a chance to lose, but isn't that the point of a real bet? Talk with nanotube on IRC to see the current contract version.

Edit: when this is all over, and you didn't dig up lots of funds, please tell me whether you were trying to bluff me with this post. I love the psycho-games you play, even when I don't know whether I'm winning them. Worthy opponents are a feat in itself. Smiley
pirateat40
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July 06, 2012, 07:21:00 PM
 #103

Nope, the moment all my lenders have every coin back it's over.  I WIN.  Your slander towards me is about me running a Ponzi.  If I ran one, I would be way underwater by now.  This is an easy bet for you, since you know what I'm doing, right?

Those are my terms, lets play.

Either you're not reading my posts or trying to use double-inverse psychology on me. Read the post after that one.

We're preparing the contract, I'm in. I know this actually gives me a chance to lose, but isn't that the point of a real bet? Talk with nanotube on IRC to see the current contract version.

Edit: when this is all over, and you didn't dig up lots of funds, please tell me whether you were trying to bluff me with this post. I love the psycho-games you play, even when I don't know whether I'm winning them. Worthy opponents are a feat in itself. Smiley

I just want you to understand here as well as the contract what the rules are.  This confirms it for me. 

Let's roll, good luck.

-pirate

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July 06, 2012, 07:30:34 PM
 #104

All trolls and gamers here. If it isn't a ponzy, you will loose. If it is a ponzy, you will loose also.

A ponzy ends on unexpected falling prices normally. But when this will come, is not really predictable. So it's a bet on time.

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July 06, 2012, 07:40:00 PM
 #105

This bet is actually a win-win for both players

-Vandroyi: He deposits let's say 2.500 coins with Pirateat40; if he wins the bet he wins 2.500 BTC (100% return) and if he loses he will get 82.500 BTC from Pirateat40

-Pirateat40: It's a confidence booster for BTCST, so legit or not he will profit from it

Excellent job, they are both buying time and both stand to gain much more they they bet
Hey guys, I just heard Vandroiy is the same person as pirateat40!

pirateat40
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July 06, 2012, 07:41:26 PM
 #106

This bet is actually a win-win for both players

-Vandroyi: He deposits let's say 2.500 coins with Pirateat40; if he wins the bet he wins 2.500 BTC (100% return) and if he loses he will get 82.500 BTC from Pirateat40

-Pirateat40: It's a confidence booster for BTCST, so legit or not he will profit from it

Excellent job, they are both buying time and both stand to gain much more they they bet
Hey guys, I just heard Vandroiy is the same person as pirateat40!

DAMNIT! My plan almost worked.

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July 06, 2012, 08:17:06 PM
 #107

Pirate may lose reputation from taking this bet if a lot of people with good reputations decide to bet against him, and fewer bet with him.

Is Nanotube extremely reliable? He has been around forever and started bitcoin-otc.  That is all I know.

For arbitraging the bet (betting for a default and depositing money with Pirate), you can still lose money if Pirate closes up the operation and returns the money before your interest exceeds the size of your bet.  However, that seems the least likely of the three options (default, growth, return money).

Don't day trade.
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July 06, 2012, 08:18:01 PM
 #108

nanotube is extremely reliable. Excellent choice.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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July 06, 2012, 08:40:11 PM
 #109

I think we're giving him a hard time. Sorry nanotube! Grin

I wanna seal this already, I'm really curious what Pirateat40 will do. In all honesty, I can't tell, just guess the odds. If he manages to pay out, I know he actually got more coins somewhere, and I learned he's the guy to go through great hassle to get back at people. I really doubt it, but who knows?

If he stalls, it's obvious he will not take the bet and default soon.

And then he could just sign it and act as if everything's normal. That's where BS&T is healthier than expected and we'll get a major Ponzi final -- if he correctly guessed the bet will aid his credibility as much as he hopes.

I couldn't make that call; really wondering what his choice will be, and whether he has all three options in the first place.



Currently, he's talking with nanotube. I don't see any new info @tm...

No wait, he may just be stalling. Man. No share for me, Pirateat40?

Edit: Why is this so complicated... can't we just agree on nanotube judging dubious cases with some delay? It's not like I'm claiming there will be a minor problem in the bookkeeping, and I pretty much confirmed I'm fucked if you put up the money from wherever, as long as nobody notices that "wherever" is a trick.
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July 06, 2012, 08:45:53 PM
 #110

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July 06, 2012, 08:50:44 PM
 #111


But doesn't know it?

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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July 06, 2012, 09:02:02 PM
 #112


Damned Cylons!

Don't forget that pirateat40 and I are also the same person.....  just sayin.
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July 06, 2012, 09:07:38 PM
 #113

Nah, I can confirm Vandroiy is *not* pirate. I know Vandroiy in person, and he's more like out of LOTR than the Carribean.  Tongue

https://localbitcoins.com/?ch=80k | BTC: 1LJvmd1iLi199eY7EVKtNQRW3LqZi8ZmmB
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July 06, 2012, 09:30:43 PM
 #114

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July 06, 2012, 09:33:16 PM
 #115

Go back to sleep...  Cheesy

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July 06, 2012, 09:34:22 PM
 #116

Go back to sleep...  Cheesy

alright, alright Wink
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July 06, 2012, 09:38:55 PM
 #117

We're all three on IRC, trying to finish, check and sign the final contract.

I guess that's it, finally getting an answer to what Pirateat40 has been planning on this. If he plans a payout, he'll announce it soon, since I doubt he's infinitely rich. Wink In that case, my only request for you guys is to push him to get the funds to a charity before there is a new lending operation. Smiley
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July 06, 2012, 09:43:55 PM
 #118

Contract signed by me. Expect same contract signed by pirateat40 and vandroiy shortly. Once deposits are made, I'll post confirmation message.

Quote
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This contract is a contingent payout agreement between irc user known as pirateat40 (otc gpg key fingerprint 067508A49BBE0E8216A61A94614DB74CFA5B357E) and irc user known as vandroiy (otc gpg key fingerprint 5BD4BBB2FAABBB6877396A720380BA6269B31D08).

otc user nanotube (otc gpg key fingerprint D8B11AAC59A873B0F38D475CE7F938BEC95594B2) will serve as escrow agent for the agreement, holding in his care the bitcoin contributions from both parties, until such a time as the contingency can be decided unambiguously.

The contingency in question is to be the default of by pirateat40 (defined below) on BTCST obligations. In case default occurs, the funds held by nanotube will be disbursed to an address of vandroiy's choosing. In case default does not occur, the funds will be disbursed to an address of pirateat40's choice.

pirateat40 and vandroiy shall each deposit with nanotube 5050 (five thousand and fifty) bitcoins, of which 50 (fifty) shall be a fee to nanotube, and 5000 (five thousand) shall go toward the contingent payout, for a total of 100 (one hundred) bitcoins fee to nanotube, and 10000 (ten thousand) bitcoins contingent payout.

=Definitions=

==Pirate default==

A default will be construed to have occurred, if at any time prior to October 1 2013, 00.01 UTC, BTCST will be late by at least 14 calendar days, in disbursing either any regularly-scheduled interest payment, or any withdrawal request, by a valid account holder of BTCST.

===Verification of default claims===

nanotube will hold in his possession a data set containing hashed usernames and withdrawal addresses of all BTCST account holders, and will be supplied any differences in such table at regular intervals, in case of account closures or creations. A user making a claim must submit to nanotube his BTCST account username, and registered BTCST withdrawal address, as well as any supporting documentation as to the payments that were due but failed to be disbursed.

===Unexpected contingencies===

In the event of any unexpected contingencies not explicitly described in this contract, or any ambiguities, nanotube shall have final discretion in the determination of contract outcome.

===Change in BTCST ToS===

BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days. Such changes may include changes in promised interest rates (as long as interest rates do not go below zero), changes in interest disbursement frequency (not to exceed 1 month intervals), interest tiers, forced withdrawals. Such changes shall not be construed to be a default event.

The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event.

==BTCST==

BTCST is the business known as "Bitcoin Savings and Trust", currently being operated by pirateat40, with current web address of https://btcst.com/ .
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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July 06, 2012, 09:45:28 PM
 #119

Quote
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This contract is a contingent payout agreement between irc user known as pirateat40 (otc gpg key fingerprint 067508A49BBE0E8216A61A94614DB74CFA5B357E) and irc user known as vandroiy (otc gpg key fingerprint 5BD4BBB2FAABBB6877396A720380BA6269B31D08).

otc user nanotube (otc gpg key fingerprint D8B11AAC59A873B0F38D475CE7F938BEC95594B2) will serve as escrow agent for the agreement, holding in his care the bitcoin contributions from both parties, until such a time as the contingency can be decided unambiguously.

The contingency in question is to be the default of by pirateat40 (defined below) on BTCST obligations. In case default occurs, the funds held by nanotube will be disbursed to an address of vandroiy's choosing. In case default does not occur, the funds will be disbursed to an address of pirateat40's choice.

pirateat40 and vandroiy shall each deposit with nanotube 5050 (five thousand and fifty) bitcoins, of which 50 (fifty) shall be a fee to nanotube, and 5000 (five thousand) shall go toward the contingent payout, for a total of 100 (one hundred) bitcoins fee to nanotube, and 10000 (ten thousand) bitcoins contingent payout.

=Definitions=

==Pirate default==

A default will be construed to have occurred, if at any time prior to October 1 2013, 00.01 UTC, BTCST will be late by at least 14 calendar days, in disbursing either any regularly-scheduled interest payment, or any withdrawal request, by a valid account holder of BTCST.

===Verification of default claims===

nanotube will hold in his possession a data set containing hashed usernames and withdrawal addresses of all BTCST account holders, and will be supplied any differences in such table at regular intervals, in case of account closures or creations. A user making a claim must submit to nanotube his BTCST account username, and registered BTCST withdrawal address, as well as any supporting documentation as to the payments that were due but failed to be disbursed.

===Unexpected contingencies===

In the event of any unexpected contingencies not explicitly described in this contract, or any ambiguities, nanotube shall have final discretion in the determination of contract outcome.

===Change in BTCST ToS===

BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days. Such changes may include changes in promised interest rates (as long as interest rates do not go below zero), changes in interest disbursement frequency (not to exceed 1 month intervals), interest tiers, forced withdrawals. Such changes shall not be construed to be a default event.

The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event.

==BTCST==

BTCST is the business known as "Bitcoin Savings and Trust", currently being operated by pirateat40, with current web address of https://btcst.com/ .

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux)

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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
pirateat40
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July 06, 2012, 09:49:17 PM
 #120

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

This contract is a contingent payout agreement between irc user known as pirateat40 (otc gpg key fingerprint 067508A49BBE0E8216A61A94614DB74CFA5B357E) and irc user known as vandroiy (otc gpg key fingerprint 5BD4BBB2FAABBB6877396A720380BA6269B31D08).

otc user nanotube (otc gpg key fingerprint D8B11AAC59A873B0F38D475CE7F938BEC95594B2) will serve as escrow agent for the agreement, holding in his care the bitcoin contributions from both parties, until such a time as the contingency can be decided unambiguously.

The contingency in question is to be the default of by pirateat40 (defined below) on BTCST obligations. In case default occurs, the funds held by nanotube will be disbursed to an address of vandroiy's choosing. In case default does not occur, the funds will be disbursed to an address of pirateat40's choice.

pirateat40 and vandroiy shall each deposit with nanotube 5050 (five thousand and fifty) bitcoins, of which 50 (fifty) shall be a fee to nanotube, and 5000 (five thousand) shall go toward the contingent payout, for a total of 100 (one hundred) bitcoins fee to nanotube, and 10000 (ten thousand) bitcoins contingent payout.

=Definitions=

==Pirate default==

A default will be construed to have occurred, if at any time prior to October 1 2013, 00.01 UTC, BTCST will be late by at least 14 calendar days, in disbursing either any regularly-scheduled interest payment, or any withdrawal request, by a valid account holder of BTCST.

===Verification of default claims===

nanotube will hold in his possession a data set containing hashed usernames and withdrawal addresses of all BTCST account holders, and will be supplied any differences in such table at regular intervals, in case of account closures or creations. A user making a claim must submit to nanotube his BTCST account username, and registered BTCST withdrawal address, as well as any supporting documentation as to the payments that were due but failed to be disbursed.

===Unexpected contingencies===

In the event of any unexpected contingencies not explicitly described in this contract, or any ambiguities, nanotube shall have final discretion in the determination of contract outcome.

===Change in BTCST ToS===

BTCST has the right to change the terms of its outstanding deposits at any time, as long as there is advance notice of at least 30 calendar days. Such changes may include changes in promised interest rates (as long as interest rates do not go below zero), changes in interest disbursement frequency (not to exceed 1 month intervals), interest tiers, forced withdrawals. Such changes shall not be construed to be a default event.

The event of dissolution of the BTCST business and return of all owed funds to all account holders, also shall not be construed as a default event.

==BTCST==

BTCST is the business known as "Bitcoin Savings and Trust", currently being operated by pirateat40, with current web address of https://btcst.com/ .
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=B0PO
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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