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Author Topic: Putting your money where Pirate's mouth is.  (Read 68313 times)
SimBesh
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July 12, 2012, 10:34:06 AM
 #341


Well then you'd better get off this forum, because it's full of scammers -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0

Yes, I believe, if these schemes (other than those that openly piggyback on Pirate) have no upper limit on deposits they're scams alright.

Then ill sure pirate will take you up on a wager, like he did with Vandroiy, BTC5k
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BlackBison
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July 12, 2012, 10:51:51 AM
 #342

I can't for my life think of why anyone would think ANYTHING borrowing money en masse and paying 7% (or 5%, or 1%) weekly interest would be anything but a scam. Unless there's hyperinflation that eats away the interest. But we're talking about bitcoins, not Zimbabwean dollars.


Well then you'd better get off this forum, because it's full of scammers -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0


FYI that link you posted actually weakens your argument as it clearly shows how abnormal pirate's rates are compared to everyone elses, which are in the 1-2% range.

SimBesh
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July 12, 2012, 11:05:41 AM
 #343

I can't for my life think of why anyone would think ANYTHING borrowing money en masse and paying 7% (or 5%, or 1%) weekly interest would be anything but a scam. Unless there's hyperinflation that eats away the interest. But we're talking about bitcoins, not Zimbabwean dollars.


Well then you'd better get off this forum, because it's full of scammers -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81542.0


FYI that link you posted actually weakens your argument as it clearly shows how abnormal pirate's rates are compared to everyone elses, which are in the 1-2% range.

I know it could very well be a ponzi, i also know it might not be. only one person knows for sure, and anyone else who claims to know also (which they don't) is the only argument i have against.
BlackBison
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July 12, 2012, 11:18:27 AM
 #344

You are correct of course.

However a wise man once said 'Never invest in a business you don't understand'  Grin

crazy_rabbit
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July 12, 2012, 12:02:51 PM
 #345

"Nothing other than ponzi could generate these kinds of returns, of course. So I'm quite rationally assuming BS&T is not a legit business."

Thats not really true though. There are a lot of ways to generate those kinds of returns, and lots of reason why someone might want to.

The most obvious is money laundering- for example if Pirate has a real life person who needs to clean up a lot of money and has agreed to pay quite a high percent to do so.

Personally, if I ripped off Bitconica (and I'm not saying Pirate did) I would want to come up with a system to clean up the coins. First I would decide how much of a loss I would be willing to take to purchase privacy from being it traced back to me, and then I would come up with a system that mixes the coins around nice and evenly. In this case, take lots of deposits, and pay stolen coins back out at regular intervals. If I need to clean 10,000 coins, and device I will give 1000 coins to protect my privacy, I could offer to accept 10000btc and pay back 11000btc. I would pay out the stolen coins and keep the clean ones.

The ponzi scheme aspect could be to disburse the coins even wider or distract attention. It can't last forever of course, but it depends on how many coins there are to 'clean'.

He could always be doing something illegal of course.

more or less retired.
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July 12, 2012, 01:16:42 PM
 #346


Quote from: pirateat40
Avast Ye!
Quote

I've been avast for sometime, but I'm still none the wiser as to what's going on Grin

wachtwoord
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July 12, 2012, 02:50:53 PM
 #347

You are correct of course.

However a wise man once said 'Never invest in a business you don't understand'  Grin

There is a difference between a investment in and a loan to a business though.

Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 05:06:15 PM
 #348

crazy_rabbit: There's no need to involve extra sources of dirty coins, because there is already BS&T.

If anything is the laundry, gpumax is. I've been wondering why BS&T didn't shut down now that is might have already peaked. The answer is surprisingly simple. It's taking time to punch the coins through miners to get untraceable fresh coins, scattered over large portions of the block chain.

I tip my hat to Pirate. I don't see who would try to trace this. Hell, he could mix in fake miner accounts. It's a complete mess nobody would even try to sort out. It's flawless.

The remaining question for me is: how many of the supporters chose to be oblivious? Given the abundant derailing of discussions, it should be safe to assume the number is not zero. These people, greedy as they are, will be competing who gets out last. I trust that Pirate will outrun some of them, and in this case, I'll be cheering for him. Smiley
imsaguy
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July 12, 2012, 05:25:17 PM
 #349

crazy_rabbit: There's no need to involve extra sources of dirty coins, because there is already BS&T.

If anything is the laundry, gpumax is. I've been wondering why BS&T didn't shut down now that is might have already peaked. The answer is surprisingly simple. It's taking time to punch the coins through miners to get untraceable fresh coins, scattered over large portions of the block chain.

I tip my hat to Pirate. I don't see who would try to trace this. Hell, he could mix in fake miner accounts. It's a complete mess nobody would even try to sort out. It's flawless.

The remaining question for me is: how many of the supporters chose to be oblivious? Given the abundant derailing of discussions, it should be safe to assume the number is not zero. These people, greedy as they are, will be competing who gets out last. I trust that Pirate will outrun some of them, and in this case, I'll be cheering for him. Smiley

And how many of the trolls continue to troll rather than accept they don't have any 100% proof it is a ponzi and instead keep spinning their wheels?

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Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 05:37:40 PM
 #350

And how many of the trolls continue to troll rather than accept they don't have any 100% proof it is a ponzi and instead keep spinning their wheels?

It's the thread the bet was made in. Isn't the point of the bet to make guesses? Huh

And while we're at guessing... I take back what I said about believing you don't know. You're quite obsessed with the topic for someone who keeps pushing on a 100% proof, just for the record.

Edit: reeses, mined coins have no traces attached. Good luck finding them among all the miners and pools... it's borderline impossible to figure out what went where.
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July 12, 2012, 05:39:21 PM
 #351

You are correct of course.

However a wise man once said 'Never invest in a business you don't understand'  Grin

There is a difference between a investment in and a loan to a business though.

Yea I was waiting for this reply.

The difference is when you actually own part of a risky business you have a (small) chance at becoming extremely wealthy from it in the event it becomes a monster.

The only person who appears to have a chance of becoming extremely wealthy from this escapade is pirate  Grin

Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 06:03:31 PM
 #352

@BlackBison:

I wonder, if we form an opinion group "Pirateat40 did a good job," can we get everyone to agree?

It doesn't seem anyone from either side tries to deny that. Maybe the forum forms a singularity when everybody agrees for once, and Pirate transforms into Gilgamesh or something... Huh
Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 06:34:09 PM
 #353

It's unfortunate that you do not understand laundering, but it makes more sense for your shotgun approach to libel.  Coins from the various thefts are tainted.  If there is a swapout with "pristine" coins, where do the tainted coins go?  In order for laundering to be effective, Pirate must end up with clean or untainted coins.  That would mean he would trade "dirty" coins and replace them with the clean coins.  Those tainted coins would then have his fingerprints on them.

You do not make sense.  Go read about the myth of "clean coins" and the inefficacy of coin tumblers with current tools.

I edited what you quoted, decided to stay a little less aggressive here.

Hm... would anyone care right now if gpumax miners were paid out with BS&T funds? It's not technically theft yet, and there are no limits on how BS&T is allowed to allocate funds. It's the very point of gpumax that the miner payouts need not be fresh coins, but can be from users who bought mining shares.



Know what? Let's just keep it at that. I can't say I know this one for sure, and I'm too lazy to check it, but it's possible. No "certainty" claims intended.

In time, we'll probably know, I'm fine with waiting until then.
finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 06:44:08 PM
 #354

Pirate is a genius, we all agree.

Why are people still trying to figure out who he is? 30 minutes of internet detective work, and you can find out anything you want to know about him. Not that I have, of course.
CodesInChaos
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July 12, 2012, 07:07:09 PM
 #355

Why are people still trying to figure out who he is? 30 minutes of internet detective work, and you can find out anything you want to know about him. Not that I have, of course.
There is a name tied to pirate via the GPUMAX registration. But is it really him? Might be some kind of strawman or identity theft.

If it is really him, and BS&T defaults, do we have enough proof to hold him responsible in court?
Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 07:23:55 PM
 #356

In this case, if the "laundry" is just BTCST to GPUMax, then it's possible to trace, but the effort wouldn't be worth it.  However, because pirate uses fixed (for all intents and purposes) addresses for withdrawals from BTCST and payments from GPUMax, it would be very simple to deposit your coins in BTCST (or pay one of your "spam victims" a few coins to deposit into their accounts) and see where they went by watching the block chain.

In the block chain, the dirty and mined coins would never cross paths. But yes, the BS&T payments would be visible. I haven't looked at it and don't know how to find deposit addresses of BS&T, since I only searched for auto-payouts to put a minimum estimate on obligations.

Again, I'm just saying it's possible. I'm going to just wait and see. It's not really my business whether Pirate re-uses wallets between his different projects, since he never said he wouldn't.
hgmichna
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July 12, 2012, 07:27:13 PM
 #357

If it is really him, and BS&T defaults, do we have enough proof to hold him responsible in court?

The money is gone anyway, so there may not be enough interest. Smiley
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July 12, 2012, 07:53:03 PM
 #358

Hm... would anyone care right now if gpumax miners were paid out with BS&T funds?
They are.

finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 08:01:16 PM
 #359

Why are people still trying to figure out who he is? 30 minutes of internet detective work, and you can find out anything you want to know about him. Not that I have, of course.
There is a name tied to pirate via the GPUMAX registration. But is it really him? Might be some kind of strawman or identity theft.

If it is really him, and BS&T defaults, do we have enough proof to hold him responsible in court?

That's not what I'm talking about. Hell, a facebook link was posted a while back by a member of these forums. If you do some research and connect the dots, you can deduce exactly who he is beyond any reasonable doubt.
finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 08:02:58 PM
 #360

Hm... would anyone care right now if gpumax miners were paid out with BS&T funds?
They are.

Pirate directly denied this when I brought it up the other day. (he said that GPUMAX is not a part of the BTCST model).
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