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Author Topic: Putting your money where Pirate's mouth is.  (Read 68286 times)
pirateat40
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"Yes I am a pirate, 200 years too late."


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July 12, 2012, 08:11:54 PM
 #361

Hm... would anyone care right now if gpumax miners were paid out with BS&T funds?
They are.

Pirate directly denied this when I brought it up the other day. (he said that GPUMAX is not a part of the BTCST model).

GPUMAX has nothing to do with BS&T's operation. Like I've said before, coins are coins and I manage all of my wallets from a single location.  I fund the payment wallet for GPUMAX using one of my operating wallets, so the coins can come from anywhere.

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phelix
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July 12, 2012, 09:32:45 PM
 #362

crazy_rabbit: There's no need to involve extra sources of dirty coins, because there is already BS&T.

If anything is the laundry, gpumax is. I've been wondering why BS&T didn't shut down now that is might have already peaked. The answer is surprisingly simple. It's taking time to punch the coins through miners to get untraceable fresh coins, scattered over large portions of the block chain.

I tip my hat to Pirate. I don't see who would try to trace this. Hell, he could mix in fake miner accounts. It's a complete mess nobody would even try to sort out. It's flawless.

The remaining question for me is: how many of the supporters chose to be oblivious? Given the abundant derailing of discussions, it should be safe to assume the number is not zero. These people, greedy as they are, will be competing who gets out last. I trust that Pirate will outrun some of them, and in this case, I'll be cheering for him. Smiley

Yes, generating a lot of transactions with <theft source> → <laundry> → <point of centralization (GPUMax)> → <miners> will hide the theft very effectively.

finally! this is connecting the open ends. all the time I was wondering how gpumax would fit into the picture. and it is so clear and simple: laundry for bs   Shocked

also it would not make sense to run both ops under different names because people might eventually find it out via the chain anyway.

the supporters have to admit: if he wanted to launder coins from bs he could do it very elegantly with gpumax. and walk away whistling with a couple 100k freshly mined coins.


@pirate: I pull my hat to this operation, too, and will laugh with you once it is all over. Your booty is well earned.


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Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 09:50:16 PM
 #363

Well, Maged an Pirate both confirmed it, what's there to say? Bet or no bet, there's really no more room for interpretation.

I don't see what we should do now though. The scheme is probably saturated, and there's no way we can orderly re-pay the funds. Just letting it unfold allocates the available rest of the hot wallet to whomever manages to "get it" first. Pirate would probably rather lock dirty funds than pay them back, so there's little to gain by going on a rampage now.

One of my bets has a relevant time-out though. Given that gpumax update post, I guess this won't be a problem.



PS: Pirate, I still think it's cool, and I'll surely tell the story. Enjoy as well.
finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 09:54:28 PM
 #364

I think everyone should keep in mind that mass withdrawals will be troublesome whether or not it is a P****.
Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 10:11:35 PM
 #365

(...) whether or not it is a P****.

 Roll Eyes



I'm serious, I wouldn't mind closing the thread now. It's the right moment, more posts don't add to it. Keep it as a little and crazy part of the forum's history. Edit: sorry for that, I guess it's not my decision really.
finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 10:13:28 PM
 #366

(...) whether or not it is a P****.

 Roll Eyes



I'm serious, I wouldn't mind closing the thread now. It's the right moment, more posts don't add to it. Keep it as a little and crazy part of the forum's history.

What I'm saying is, people will still be in denial for a long time.
RoloTonyBrownTown
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July 12, 2012, 10:20:46 PM
 #367

Van, you're an idiot Roll Eyes

finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 10:29:33 PM
 #368

With this I can probably finish it whenever I want by just making another ruckus and then posting a full explanation.

I'm serious, I wouldn't mind closing the thread now. It's the right moment, more posts don't add to it.

I generally agree with your opinions on BTCST. But really, can you get any more arrogant than this?
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July 12, 2012, 10:39:12 PM
 #369

All he has is vague speculation and assumption (and yes, a large dose of arrogance).  Trying to scare people into withdrawing is a pretty schoolyard tactic.  A lot of it doesnt even make sense, but I guess its only himself he's embarrassing so where's the harm.

There's a term over here that fits this situation well;  Tall Poppy Syndrome.

Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 10:47:34 PM
 #370

With this I can probably finish it whenever I want by just making another ruckus and then posting a full explanation.

I'm serious, I wouldn't mind closing the thread now. It's the right moment, more posts don't add to it.

I generally agree with your opinions on BTCST. But really, can you get any more arrogant than this?

Okay, what formulation do you want? I'll just remove that line.

Maged and Pirate said it. Gpumax is outputting BS&T coins, with a fat profit margin on top. What purpose can that possibly serve, burning coins? Laundering money by inserting it into BS&T?

What do you propose we do? Feel free to go on a rampage, the amount of coins we can save will not change. And if we decide that in here, Pirate knows and takes counter-measures, such as just locking everything.

I'm sorry I was arrogant, feel free to propose a better course of action now. Huh

Edit: The idea is really to see whether some investors notice and can still withdraw, without us forcing Pirate to lock down immediately. That way, everyone gets a fair chance -- though admittedly, also Pirate gets more laundering time. I don't know what to do, and I don't see why it's my call to make.
SimBesh
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July 12, 2012, 10:56:55 PM
 #371

I find it impressive, that van who bet $35k against pirate who already knows the outcome of the bet, can still be this cocky. At the start of the events leading to the bet, i was becoming more and more convinced it was a ponzi and was going to pull out all my BTC, but as time went on listening to van drone on, I've decided to ride it out.

I think it has to do with how you seem to think you know what's going on, when you do not. makes me tend to disbelieve everything you say.
finkleshnorts
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July 12, 2012, 10:59:16 PM
 #372

With this I can probably finish it whenever I want by just making another ruckus and then posting a full explanation.

I'm serious, I wouldn't mind closing the thread now. It's the right moment, more posts don't add to it.

I generally agree with your opinions on BTCST. But really, can you get any more arrogant than this?

Okay, what formulation do you want? I'll just remove that line.

Maged and Pirate said it. Gpumax is outputting BS&T coins, with a fat profit margin on top. What purpose can that possibly serve, burning coins? Laundering money by inserting it into BS&T?

What do you propose we do? Feel free to go on a rampage, the amount of coins we can save will not change. And if we decide that in here, Pirate knows and takes counter-measures, such as just locking everything.

I'm sorry I was arrogant, feel free to propose a better course of action now. Huh

That works.

Also, "P****" was a joke. Might want to check your sarcasm dectector again.
Vandroiy
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July 12, 2012, 11:10:49 PM
 #373

That works.

Also, "P****" was a joke. Might want to check your sarcasm dectector again.

Rolleyes isn't an insult. It's just rolling eyes at things! Roll Eyes Smiley

I wasn't really focusing on form, because the game theoretical problem is kind of confusing me right now. I'm not supposed to be too convincing, because that's a worse outcome for everyone!

My belief is that if I manage to convince everyone this second, the lock goes down, so nobody can withdraw and Pirate can't launder, leaving a whole lot of coins in limbo: too dirty for Pirate, not accessible by the former owners. It's really an absurd situation that I needed a moment to grasp... I don't know what to do now other than just go to sleep. I guess that's what I'll do.

I see I haven't been convincing just now, and feel very confused to believe this is a good thing. Huh This is too crazy for me now, if you guys can think of something, please do.
RoloTonyBrownTown
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July 12, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
 #374

I'm not sure he knows exactly what he wants people to do.   This whole thing just reeks of desperation on Vandroiy's part.  It's clear he's regretting making this (very daft) bet, and who can blame him.

Whatever, let him keep going, it's not going to change anything.  Like I said, Tall Poppy.

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July 13, 2012, 01:07:29 AM
 #375


Okay, this is an honest question: How could GPUmax generate serious revenue?


"shares", or hashes to solve the next block, already have a price, denominated as a fraction of a block of 50BTC. That fraction of a bitcoin already has a price set on MtGox. Who would pay more for your shares than you would get by submitting them to a pool?


Good, question and i don't know the answer,.
[..]

My question still stands. Can anyone shed some light on the GPUmax "marketplace" for me?

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finkleshnorts
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July 13, 2012, 01:26:28 AM
 #376


Okay, this is an honest question: How could GPUmax generate serious revenue?


"shares", or hashes to solve the next block, already have a price, denominated as a fraction of a block of 50BTC. That fraction of a bitcoin already has a price set on MtGox. Who would pay more for your shares than you would get by submitting them to a pool?


Good, question and i don't know the answer,.
[..]

My question still stands. Can anyone shed some light on the GPUmax "marketplace" for me?

Some people (Who? Pirate himself? SR? Jimmy Hoffa?) pay a premium for vanilla coins. That's the theory.
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July 13, 2012, 02:48:34 AM
 #377

Some people (Who? Pirate himself? SR? Jimmy Hoffa?) pay a premium for vanilla coins. That's the theory.

It seems that freshly mined coins are often used to pay the interest payments.  For instance this interest payment uses 4 different freshly mined 47.5 BTC inputs at address 1PSf86KnLuzM7Ris5kDhTEZwooR3p2iyfV.  I don't see why fresh coins would be paid out as interest to lenders if this is indeed a laundering operation.

Are these coins mined by GPUMAX?  Can anyone tell?

nrd525
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July 13, 2012, 02:53:13 AM
 #378

Estimated cost of laundering money is 4% to 15%.

http://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/381/3iie3705.pdf

Don't day trade.
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July 13, 2012, 03:54:59 AM
 #379

Some people (Who? Pirate himself? SR? Jimmy Hoffa?) pay a premium for vanilla coins. That's the theory.

It seems that freshly mined coins are often used to pay the interest payments.  For instance this interest payment uses 4 different freshly mined 47.5 BTC inputs at address 1PSf86KnLuzM7Ris5kDhTEZwooR3p2iyfV.  I don't see why fresh coins would be paid out as interest to lenders if this is indeed a laundering operation.

Are these coins mined by GPUMAX?  Can anyone tell?
Well apparently GPUMAX has an internal pool of its own to handle load balancing, and since Pirateat40 has said that all the funds go into and come out of the same wallet, that seems to be the explanation as far as I can tell.

Mining Rig Extraordinaire - the Trenton BPX6806 18-slot PCIe backplane [PICS] Dead project is dead, all hail the coming of the mighty ASIC!
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July 13, 2012, 04:19:53 AM
 #380

Estimated cost of laundering money is 4% to 15%.

http://www.piie.com/publications/chapters_preview/381/3iie3705.pdf

if is a ML ops, then it should be lower rates, even lower that 4% the methods on the .pdf are the classics all with high - mid risk, bitcoin is like a paradise for ML, i mean almost 0 fee for transfer, totally anon.. if i want to make some laundry and a guy come to me and tell me that is gonna charge me 1 - 4% ....
 



Edit: Im not saying that is the exact % but probably is lower than the classics methods
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